Is Zimmer an effective Leader of this team?

I disagree.  AT was open for easy touchdowns twice and the backup qb didn't hit him.  

The coaches didn't fumble the ball three times. 

I still like the O Line.  And think either of our starting qbs would do well when they are healthy.  

Few missed tackles on D ... and a few mental
mistakes like the Waynes failure to contain the edge.  

And our receivers had several obvious interference calls not called ... and obvious holding on our d line.  

we got screwed by the refs, our D couldnt catch, had a rough stretch of TOs, and lost our starting RB when we were already playing with our #2 QB... that isnt Zim's fault. is he perfect? no, but the guy has bad luck. how man "no contact" blown knees can 1 guy be forced to deal with!?!?!

To me those are just excuses of an undisciplined team. How about running the Wildcat formation when you were moving the ball effectively? Who even uses the Wildcat formation anymore? That was done 3 years ago. How about not exploiting the injuries the Lions had at Linebacker and not getting the ball to Rudolph except the last drive of the game? How about running Murray twice up the middle on 1st and goal from the ten yard line when you had to put the ball in the end zone? How about playing a soft zone on 3rd and 17 giving Stafford all day to complete a first down pass that led to a field goal. I agree that the Refs called a terrible game, but that crew calls the fewest penalties in the NFL. That should not have been a surprise to any of the players or coaches. They put themselves in that position to let the referees decide the game. Call it "bad luck" all you want, but he is the Leader of the team and it all starts and stops with him. Under adversity, the best coached teams in the league find ways to thrive and be successful. When the pressure is on, this team continually finds ways to shoot themselves in the foot and find new ways to lose which is why I asked the question. 

I guess by the end of this season we will have petty good idea.  He has a major QB dilemma to deal with and now has to manufacture a run game to keep the offense going.  The team is going to need some leadership from him to buckle up do something.

He has had some real misfortune-call it excuses if you want but they were totally out o his control.  Losing starting RB and QB year one, success year two but a missed 27 yard FG ends the season, year three lose QB, RB, and the whole OL not to mention almost his eyesight, now down starting QB and RB again  4 games in.

It's hard to deny they have acquired/developed some talent on this team and he deserves some credit for that.  At this point I think he is still a good coach that is having some terrible luck.  But then our record with coaches isn't much better than our record with QB's.  Bud Grant and Dennis Green are it with nary a SB between 'em.

It's gotta be tough coaching through these injuries.  Year after year that's what this staff seems to go through.  Other teams like the Pats and our rivals seem to always overcome major setbacks, but that has evolved over time.  I think our depth gets better every year, the cupboard was bare pretty much when Zim got here.  Things are gonna take time, just don't know if I got enough.  

In 52 games under Zimmer, the Vikings have started a running back that wasn't the opening-day starter in 32 games.
Minnesota also has opened 32 games in that span without the first-team quarterback, including each of the past three games.

Kinda hard to blame Zimmer IMO...

@"TBro" said: To me those are just excuses of an undisciplined team. How about running the Wildcat formation when you were moving the ball effectively? Who even uses the Wildcat formation anymore? That was done 3 years ago. How about not exploiting the injuries the Lions had at Linebacker and not getting the ball to Rudolph except the last drive of the game? How about running Murray twice up the middle on 1st and goal from the ten yard line when you had to put the ball in the end zone? How about playing a soft zone on 3rd and 17 giving Stafford all day to complete a first down pass that led to a field goal. I agree that the Refs called a terrible game, but that crew calls the fewest penalties in the NFL. That should not have been a surprise to any of the players or coaches. They put themselves in that position to let the referees decide the game. Call it "bad luck" all you want, but he is the Leader of the team and it all starts and stops with him. Under adversity, the best coached teams in the league find ways to thrive and be successful. When the pressure is on, this team continually finds ways to shoot themselves in the foot and find new ways to lose which is why I asked the question. 

Teams like the Pats (and the Pukers) suffer their share of injuries, too... but neither of them have lost their starting QB (multiple times).  That's the difference between how "other" teams handle injuries vs. the Vikings.  When is the last time we had a good starting QB... who started for more than 1 season (without getting hurt)?  Culpepper might've been the last one.  Favre was good for exactly 1 year... then he sucked.  Teddy hasn't played up to #1 QB status (yet?).  That's a heckuva lot different than the Pats going one season without Brady... and the Packers going a few games without Favre or Erin.

@"pumpf" said:

@"TBro" said: To me those are just excuses of an undisciplined team. How about running the Wildcat formation when you were moving the ball effectively? Who even uses the Wildcat formation anymore? That was done 3 years ago. How about not exploiting the injuries the Lions had at Linebacker and not getting the ball to Rudolph except the last drive of the game? How about running Murray twice up the middle on 1st and goal from the ten yard line when you had to put the ball in the end zone? How about playing a soft zone on 3rd and 17 giving Stafford all day to complete a first down pass that led to a field goal. I agree that the Refs called a terrible game, but that crew calls the fewest penalties in the NFL. That should not have been a surprise to any of the players or coaches. They put themselves in that position to let the referees decide the game. Call it "bad luck" all you want, but he is the Leader of the team and it all starts and stops with him. Under adversity, the best coached teams in the league find ways to thrive and be successful. When the pressure is on, this team continually finds ways to shoot themselves in the foot and find new ways to lose which is why I asked the question. 

Well of course they are.  People didn't agree with you... so it's excuses.  Maybe YOU'RE the one making excuses for the players, in order to blame Zim (since that is your pre-conceived bias)?

was Zimmers qualification in question after beating the saints?  how about after the bucs game?   I think its a bit reactionary to be questioning everything after a loss,  but not after a win.

why do we have to have a scape goat for every loss?  its a team game,  why cant we just say the team is at fault and if everybody involved stepped it up just a little bit,  nobody would have to lose their job or be questioned as to their ability to do their job.

Seriously? These are legit questions, IMO.

Other than Stafford the Vikings have superior talent when comparing the 2 rosters. But Zimmer is now 2-5 against Caldwell.

Why didn't he react to Detroit's success attacking the edges? How come one of the worst rushing teams in the League nearly broke their 55 game streak of not having a 100 yard rusher?

Why is the tackling so poor? Why aren't Waynes and Alexander more consistent yet?

And to TBro's point why for the love of Pete wasn't Shurmer attacking Detroit in the middle of the field and on the edges when their LB Corps was decimated by injuries.

These are questions that stem from watching the game, not pre-prepared attacks on Zimmer with an agenda in mind.

I see FSU get out coached a lot. And yesterday I the same thing happen to Minnesota.

So is it coordinators and position coaches or Zimmer? I know the buck stops with Zimmer, but maybe the real problem is that some on the staff are not up to the job. Seems like head guys with middle of the road records are remarkably static in the off season in finding new blood, and new ideas. Just as every year, every team looks to improve player personnel, it seems that they would also be looking to upgrade their staff whether it be from the college ranks or lower level positions in the pros. But man there are a ton of dinosaurs roaming the sidelines. Meanwhile the Rams have a 30 something yr. old head coach who is quietly kicking tail, because he's smart, hungry, has fresh ideas, can relate to players, and can put together a staff with a mix of vets and young minds.

Almost every single team in the league has bad
games, where it looks like they have no idea what they're doing.  That is normal for the NFL.  The margin for victory is so slim that it
comes down to a play or two throughout the game more often than not.  Teams look good one week and bad the
next.  What we’re seeing, to me, looks
like an average 8-8 club, but I’m not sure I expect too much more with Keenum
at QB. 

The real question is whether this is a trend or
not.  I don’t believe that our tackling
woes from Sunday are a trend.  We’re
normally a sure tackling team.  Overall
our defense is playing well.  We just
need to get a few more turnovers.  On offense,
we’ve played two horrible defenses and two great defenses (Steelers are number
2 in both yards and points, Detroit is top 5 in terms of points), we’ve played
great against the horrible defenses, and struggled against the great defenses.  I would expect us to look more middle of the road
against middle of the road defenses.

our d played great. our O not very good, but that can ne expected with a backup Qb and our #1 rb out at a critical point im the game.  we were simply outplayed by a better team and Mckinnon made 2 crucial errors helping them out. this is a good coaching staff and a good team, we are pretty much where we should be considering our key injuries

@"Bullazin" said: our d played great. our O not very good, but that can ne expected with a backup Qb and our #1 rb out at a critical point im the game.  we were simply outplayed by a better team and Mckinnon made 2 crucial errors helping them out. this is a good coaching staff and a good team, we are pretty much where we should be considering our key injuries

I think we would be worse if Zimmer is fired. Odds and history suggest someone worse (like Frazier or Tice) would replace him. I think Zimmer is an average-level NFL head coach, but I no longer think he's going to build a Super Bowl contender.

So they tackle great against the Saints and Bucs, not so much against the Steelers and Lions.  Not sure coaching is to blame, I think it's on the players.  This team has one of the best defenses in football but they have to play like it every Sunday.  I don't buy the fact that Zimmer built this real good defense and then forgets how to coach on occasion.  This is one the players, not the coaches.

Ok serious question then, who would you hire instead of Zimmer? For me, that hadn't even entered my mind till now so I don't have an option at the moment. I also don't think it should be an option. Not at this point. Why? Because he changed the culture of the team and fan base. That was huge. Also he has been instrumental in handling major adversity. His own and the team's.  We say that injuries should not be an excuse and they are part of football. But injuries to 2 critical positions 2 years in a row is extraordinary. And the OL last year was a revolving door. 

So ok, you move forward. Next man up. Coach Zimmer has been going through the process of learning about himself and his players. As well as how to be a better coach. He also had to adjust to changing staff on the offense. As well as learning more balance with his involvement in the offense and defense. I say continue working, grinding and tweaking and let the chips fall where they may. 

Not worried about Zimmer as our coach.  Glad we have him.

I AM, however worried about his age and health.  Wish he was ten years younger.

@"Jor-El" said: I think we would be worse if Zimmer is fired. Odds and history suggest someone worse (like Frazier or Tice) would replace him. I think Zimmer is an average-level NFL head coach, but I no longer think he's going to build a Super Bowl contender.

EDIT: The following is not directly personally at you, Jor-El, but is just a rant in general at those who are starting to question Zimmer as the HC after every single loss.

I can't believe how short of a memory some people have here.  Do you not remember the Tice/Childress/Frazier years?  The Vikings are 2-2 after losing their starting QB and RB early in the season for the second year in a row and people start calling for Zimmer's head saying that he can't coach?

You've got to be f*cking kidding me.

Here's a little synopsis of what Zimmer has had to endure so far as HC of the Vikings:

2014: The guy the entire offense was built around, Adrian Peterson, gets suspended for the year before the second game of the season.  Zimmer also has to lean on a rookie QB and with Matt Asiata as the starting RB and a washed up Greg Jennings as the main WR, in a temporary outdoor college stadium, while also inheriting the NFL's worst scoring defense from the year prior.  Despite all of this, he leads the team to a 7-9 record, an improvement over the 5-10-1 record the year before under Frazier.  The defense also improves from 32 ranked in points, to 11th.

2015: Finally with some stability at QB and RB, but still in a temporary college stadium, the Vikings go 11-5, while finishing in the top 5 in scoring defense and beating the Packers in Lambeau Field in the final week of the season to win the division.  Blair Walsh misses a 27 yard FG in the playoffs that costs us a chance at beating the eventual NFC Champion Seahawks.

2016: The two main pieces of our offense, Bridgewater and AD are lost for the season by the end of week two.  The OL is also the most injured unit in the entire NFL since the year 2000.  A total of 92.1 games were missed just by the offensive line alone.  Despite all of this, Zimmer coaches the team to an 8-8 record and the defense finishes 6th in points allowed.

2017: Once again, both the starting QB and a very promising RB are lost early in the season.  However, the Vikings are 2-2 and 8th in points allowed.  The offense has also shown to be MUCH improved when the starters have been on the field and even the much improved backup QB position has directly contributed to a win.

We've also started beating the Packers regularly, both at home and in GB.  Erin no longer toys with our defense like he's going against a Division II college team.  Zimmer has changed the entire attitude and culture of this organization and many of the players rave about playing for this team and playing for him.  I truly believe that if he could ever get some goddamn stability for a change, he could be the coach that leads us to our first championship.

Please look at the big picture instead of freaking out after each loss.