Traitor in Chief Trump Has His Buddy's Back

purplefaithful wrote:
Winston Churchill was an historically good PM who led Britain admirably through a terrible war. He inherited a brutal mess from Neville Chamberlain (to say the least.)

Churchill was voted out in 1945.

I bring this up because I think Zelensky (like Churchill) was at his best as a war time leader. But he may not be a leader capable of getting Ukraine to peace.

Zelensky said in London that "A deal to end the war between Ukraine and Russia “is still very, very far away,”.  Doesn't sound like a guy that knows how to pivot from war to peace.  He's losing a war with heavy financial and military backing from his benefactors....and starting to piss them off as well.  Nobody is going to give him an open ended commitment. There's going to be a lot of dead Ukrainians if Z doesn't come to his senses.

I still get the feeling that we may be playing "good cop, bad cop" with the French and Brits to try to get Z to start negotiating in good faith to end the conflict. Without our backing, Z knows that Kyiv (and the Ukraine) falls. The Europeans can "attempt" to secure our backing for a short period while a deal gets negotiated. It will then be up to the Europeans and Americans to threaten sanctions, etc. on Russia and hold Russia accountable to any agreement made.

badgervike wrote:

Zelensky said in London that "A deal to end the war between Ukraine and Russia “is still very, very far away,”.  Doesn't sound like a guy that knows how to pivot from war to peace.  He's losing a war with heavy financial and military backing from his benefactors....and starting to piss them off as well.  Nobody is going to give him an open ended commitment.  There's going to be a lot of dead Ukrainians if Z doesn't come to his senses.

He's definitely more persuaded by the false bravado of Western Europe and war mongering senators in the US than he should be.  Once Trump slams the door he's screwed.  It will take an act of brinksmanship on Trump's part.  All of the TDS crowd will come out and lose their minds, and then Zelenskyy will finally capitulate and the left will still act like Trump just "lucked out".  We've seen it over and over again.

Waterboy wrote:
He's definitely more persuaded by the false bravado of Western Europe and war mongering senators in the US than he should be.  

I'm thinking more and more that he's more persuaded by the amount of aid money ending up in his accounts.  I know, I know Zanary.  Zelensky says he's only worth $20M and Zelensky don't lie...

badgervike wrote:

I'm thinking more and more that he's more persuaded by the amount of aid money ending up in his accounts.  I know, I know Zanary.  Zelensky says he's only worth $20M and Zelensky don't lie...

I totally agree with you.  He's the type that will attempt to fly the coup and live somewhere remote and live off of his US bankroll well into the future.   He can do his cocaine in peace that way.  The guy is getting a free pass because the sheeple follow the news and never question why things happen as they do.  Because Putin is bad, Zelenskyy must be good.  I think that's hardly the case here.  In many situations, it's just the degree of how bad they are.  Zelenskyy favor jar is now empty as it should be.

Zanary wrote:

And all I get from you is Trump apologism, cherry picking, and obvious biases that you try and deny...but, hey, I just have very low expectations!

...and, for today's NON SHOCKER: Trump's still Russia's Bestie!

https://www.mediaite.com/trump/kremlin-spox-lauds-trump-white-house-for-rapidly-changing-us-foreign-policy-in-a-way-that-largely-coincides-with-our-vision/

“The new administration is rapidly changing all foreign policy configurations. This largely coincides with our vision,” Kremlin spokesperson Dmitry Peskov said on Sunday in a video published on Telegram.

Team Orange Boi must be at their proudest!

yeah,  Im on here banging that Trump drum.   Honestly the ukraine mess isnt his, he could right on letting Russia rip them a new ass and walk away, instead he is trying to help broker peace as he too likely knows its our govt's involvement that led to this mess to begin with.

youre insistance that he is working with/for Russia is beyond foolish,  you are letting your hatred of him cloud your reason.

Waterboy wrote:
I totally agree with you.  He's the type that will attempt to fly the coup and live somewhere remote and live off of his US bankroll well into the future.   He can do his cocaine in peace that way.  The guy is getting a free pass because the sheeple follow the news and never question why things happen as they do.  Because Putin is bad, Zelenskyy must be good.  I think that's hardly the case here.  In many situations, it's just the degree of how bad they are.  Zelenskyy favor jar is now empty as it should be.

If you were Zelensky and had lost so many citizens and towns in an increasingly losing war over the last 3 years, tell me why you wouldn't at least let the Europeans and Americans use their political, economic and military might to attempt to broker a deal for your country?  Why wouldn't you at least let them try???  Why would you summarily torpedo the process...unless there's something to me made by continuing the war.  The Ukrainians are already taking people off the street to fight...that's unsustainable as is the current level of support from their European and American benefactors.  Z's only hope is to find a way to directly involve the US or Europe in the conflict..a point he tacitly made in that White House meeting.

Well, let's see:

1. There seem to be people that think having a known, constant liar who compliments Putin constantly should negotiate...in Ukraine's interests? That's babbling insanity, at best.

2. Similarly in the lunatic fringe, the anti-psychology opinion that rewarding the actions of a mass rape/murderer oligarch with territory and assurances will dissuade similar endeavors in the future. WOW. That's a massive, dual affront to both psychology and history.

3. The undercurrent of "the Ukrainians deserve this" for not giving in is right up there with the infamous suggestion to "may as well lie back and enjoy the rape". Holy s**t, what a right wing we have nowadays.

4. Oh, and the "Zelenskyy seems like the sort to just bail with the quadrillions of stolen aid" mindset...considering what he's actively stayed through, and how much he endures vs the accusatory clown that probably get hostile from a 10 minute wi-fi blackout, is contrary to displayed actions. Yes, I overstated that, trying to match the level of ridiculousness involved.

5. My hatred for our junk president didn't create the decades of on-book lies, the philandering, the petulant behaviors, the misogyny, the massive DOGE errors, the absolute arrogance in the face of any accountability, nor the ridiculousness of everything from his hero cards and complete fictions in any statistics he wants to spin in his speeches. That's all on records, most with easy video evidence and/or public records, and all, somehow, dismissed by his fan clubs and those who think that he, and a similarly proven mass murderer, have a "peace plan".

It's fuggin' astounding, no wonder the Russian press loves it.

Zanary wrote:
Well, let's see:

1. There seem to be people that think having a known, constant liar who compliments Putin constantly should negotiate...in Ukraine's interests? That's babbling insanity, at best.

2.  Similarly in the lunatic fringe, the anti-psychology opinion that rewarding the actions of a mass rape/murderer oligarch with territory and assurances will dissuade similar endeavors in the future. WOW. That's a massive, dual affront to both psychology and history.

3.  The undercurrent of "the Ukrainians deserve this" for not giving in is right up there with the infamous suggestion to "may as well lie back and enjoy the rape". Holy s**t, what a right wing we have nowadays.

4.  Oh, and the "Zelenskyy seems like the sort to just bail with the quadrillions of stolen aid" mindset...considering what he's actively stayed through, and how much he endures vs the accusatory clown that probably get hostile from a 10 minute wi-fi blackout, is contrary to displayed actions. Yes, I overstated that, trying to match the level of ridiculousness involved.

5.  My hatred for our junk president didn't create the decades of on-book lies, the philandering, the petulant behaviors, the misogyny, the massive DOGE errors, the absolute arrogance in the face of any accountability, nor the ridiculousness of everything from his hero cards and complete fictions in any statistics he wants to spin in his speeches. That's all on records, most with easy video evidence and/or public records, and all, somehow, dismissed by his fan clubs and those who think that he, and a similarly proven mass murderer, have a "peace plan".

It's fuggin' astounding, no wonder the Russian press loves it.

Well...you convinced me Z.  Never surrender...never negotiate.  A lot of of foreign aid to ensure that more Ukrainians die slower.  They should hold out until they get their full list of demands...

The time to have addressed this was years ago when it was a minor border skirmish...but your boy Biden (and Obama prior) and the Europeans did nothing to stop Putin.    It's the new liberal mindset  You're aware that Russia invaded Crimea under Obama and Dombas under Biden...and were buoyed by the disastrous Biden withdrawal from Afghanistan...but Trump makes you feel bad...and feelings are more important than facts.  

Tell your friends to get out while they can...or risk being yet another casualty of this war because evidently Z is going to fight to the death.

You're angry with the guy trying to end the killing because you don't like Trump.  The Ukrainians are slowly losing this war.  Russia is investing a lot in weaponry and is perfectly willing to win a battle of attrition.  I don't like it any better than you do...but Ukrainians will surely die and Ukraine will cease to exist if we maintain the status quo.

If you don't let the US and Europeans attempt to negotiate a settlement now...there will be less and less to negotiate as time goes on.

badgervike wrote:

Well...you convinced me Z.  Never surrender...never negotiate.  A lot of of foreign aid to ensure that more Ukrainians die slower.  They should hold out until they get their full list of demands...

The time to have addressed this was years ago when it was a minor border skirmish...but your boy Biden (and Obama prior) and the Europeans did nothing to stop Putin.    It's the new liberal mindset  You're aware that Russia invaded Crimea under Obama and Dombas under Biden...and were buoyed by the disastrous Biden withdrawal from Afghanistan...but Trump makes you feel bad...and feelings are more important than facts.  

Tell your friends to get out while they can...or risk being yet another casualty of this war because evidently Z is going to fight to the death.

You're angry with the guy trying to end the killing because you don't like Trump.  The Ukrainians are slowly losing this war.  Russia is investing a lot in weaponry and is perfectly willing to win a battle of attrition.  I don't like it any better than you do...but Ukrainians will surely die and Ukraine will cease to exist if we maintain the status quo.

If you don't let the US and Europeans attempt to negotiate a settlement now...there will be less and less to negotiate as time goes on.

It's like honesty is impossible for some of you. I didn't say "never negotiate", I pointed out that orange boi is all about himself AND very consistently complimentary toward Ukraine's attacker, putting him in a bad light as the negotiator. How, in any universe, is this unreasonable?

Secondly, "my boy Biden"? Again, you've been a liar about this before, so I shouldn't be surprised...but, given the times I've been clear about him as a vacuous liar himself (well back into his senator and VP days, which I've referenced)...you're basically choosing to be junk in this situation. Quit assigning things to me that I don't say, maybe be a less disappointing person? Give it a go.

No wonder our lying filth boi president has such a loyal, equally bent following Holy S**T, kids...!

I don't believe that Trump cares one whit about peace, he wants to be seen making THE DEAL in front of as many cameras as possible. This fully insane belief, that the ONLY path to peace, the ONLY way forward, is some deal that is drawn up by a (again, interesting how little this matters to some) a KNOWN LIAR AND CON MAN who's arguably in Vlad's pocket; "the Donald" has already shown heavy favoritism to Russia over Ukraine repeatedly. "Tyrant" vs "really brilliant guy, we have great conversations", anyone?

Just because a "deal" is drawn up, that guarantees nothing about its quality...and its so-called architect has both horrible character and motivations.

My folks tell a different story, and I'm ALL FUGGING FOR letting real negotiations take place, but the assumption that the worst person possible has the only path to peace is full-on delusion. His word is garbage, why does anyone assume that it's suddenly magical?

Try and actually reference what I said, instead of your weird BS-fetishes, this time. Strive for better!

Looks like Z got the memo...

I would like to reiterate Ukraine’s commitment to peace.

None of us wants an endless war. Ukraine is ready to come to the negotiating table as soon as possible to bring lasting peace closer. Nobody wants peace more than Ukrainians. My team and I stand ready to work under…

— Volodymyr Zelenskyy / Володимир Зеленський (@ZelenskyyUa) March 4, 2025

We'll see if the two sides can get anywhere. They'd have no chance of success without the US and Europeans involved and even at that, I have my doubts...but if it saves lives..it's worth the effort. The only way to get Putin to the table is through leverage...and the Ukrainians don't have the leverage without us.

badgervike wrote:
Looks like Z got the memo...

I would like to reiterate Ukraine’s commitment to peace.

None of us wants an endless war. Ukraine is ready to come to the negotiating table as soon as possible to bring lasting peace closer. Nobody wants peace more than Ukrainians. My team and I stand ready to work under…

— Volodymyr Zelenskyy / Володимир Зеленський (@ZelenskyyUa) March 4, 2025

We'll see if the two sides can get anywhere.  They'd have no chance of success without the US and Europeans involved and even at that, I have my doubts...but if it saves lives..it's worth the effort.

It's the same memo, both minerals and security are in his tweet. Friday was all about theater, which continues as Vance basically insulted the UK and France by marginalizing their parts in our recent wars (then backtracking, oops, I didn't mean YOU GUYS despite the obvious topic), and Noem parroting the "51st State" insults at a border library.

This is a full-on classless administration. It's making complete hypocrites of Rubio and others that plainly described Putin as the murderous s**tpile he is...but now, are expected to tow the "yeah, y'know, invasions and huge murder-fests are so easily misunderstood" line.

I kinda wonder how hard the appointees have to scrub at home, to get the stench off...?

Zanary wrote:

It's the same memo, both minerals and security are in his tweet. Friday was all about theater, which continues as Vance basically insulted the UK and France by marginalizing their parts in our recent wars (then backtracking, oops, I didn't mean YOU GUYS despite the obvious topic), and Noem parroting the "51st State" insults at a border library.

This is a full-on classless administration. It's making complete hypocrites of Rubio and others that plainly described Putin as the murderous s**tpile he is...but now, are expected to tow the "yeah, y'know, invasions and huge murder-fests are so easily misunderstood" line.

I kinda wonder how hard the appointees have to scrub at home, to get the stench off...?

Yeah, it doesn't really matter that we're making progress on ending the war, mass illegal immigration, and the flow of fentanyl into the US.   We should exhibit more class.  lol

From a country that's literally next door to the conflict, and has had some munitions land in their territory:

"Former President of Poland Lech Walesa wrote the following letter to Trump.
Your Excellency, Mr. President,
We watched the report of your conversation with the President of Ukraine, Volodymyr Zelensky, with fear and distaste. We find it insulting that you expect Ukraine to show respect and gratitude for the material assistance provided by the United States in its fight against russia. Gratitude is owed to the heroic Ukrainian soldiers who shed their blood in defense of the values of the free world. They have been dying on the front lines for more than 11 years in the name of these values and the independence of their homeland, which was attacked by Putin’s russia.
We do not understand how the leader of a country that symbolizes the free world cannot recognize this.
Our alarm was also heightened by the atmosphere in the Oval Office during this conversation, which reminded us of the interrogations we endured at the hands of the Security Services and the debates in Communist courts. Prosecutors and judges, acting on behalf of the all-powerful communist political police, would explain to us that they held all the power while we held none. They demanded that we cease our activities, arguing that thousands of innocent people suffered because of us. They stripped us of our freedoms and civil rights because we refused to cooperate with the government or express gratitude for our oppression. We are shocked that President Volodymyr Zelensky was treated in the same manner.
The history of the 20th century shows that whenever the United States sought to distance itself from democratic values and its European allies, it ultimately became a threat to itself. President Woodrow Wilson understood this when he decided in 1917 that the United States must join World War I. President Franklin Delano Roosevelt understood this when, after the attack on Pearl Harbor in December 1941, he resolved that the war to defend America must be fought not only in the Pacific but also in Europe, in alliance with the nations under attack by the Third Reich.
We remember that without President Ronald Reagan and America’s financial commitment, the collapse of the Soviet empire would not have been possible. President Reagan recognized that millions of enslaved people suffered in Soviet russia and the countries it had subjugated, including thousands of political prisoners who paid for their defense of democratic values with their freedom. His greatness lay, among other things, in his unwavering decision to call the USSR an “Empire of Evil” and to fight it decisively. We won, and today, the statue of President Ronald Reagan stands in Warsaw, facing the U.S. Embassy.
Mr. President, material aid—military and financial—can never be equated with the blood shed in the name of Ukraine’s independence and the freedom of Europe and the entire free world. Human life is priceless; its value cannot be measured in money. Gratitude is due to those who sacrifice their blood and their freedom. This is self-evident to us, the people of Solidarity, former political prisoners of the communist regime under Soviet russia.
We call on the United States to uphold the guarantees made alongside Great Britain in the 1994 Budapest Memorandum, which established a direct obligation to defend Ukraine’s territorial integrity in exchange for its relinquishment of nuclear weapons. These guarantees are unconditional—there is no mention of treating such assistance as an economic transaction.
Signed,
Lech Wałęsa, former political prisoner, President of Poland"

Zanary wrote:
From a country that's literally next door to the conflict, and has had some munitions land in their territory:

"Former President of Poland Lech Walesa wrote the following letter to Trump.
Your Excellency, Mr. President,
We watched the report of your conversation with the President of Ukraine, Volodymyr Zelensky, with fear and distaste. We find it insulting that you expect Ukraine to show respect and gratitude for the material assistance provided by the United States in its fight against russia. Gratitude is owed to the heroic Ukrainian soldiers who shed their blood in defense of the values of the free world. They have been dying on the front lines for more than 11 years in the name of these values and the independence of their homeland, which was attacked by Putin’s russia.
We do not understand how the leader of a country that symbolizes the free world cannot recognize this.
Our alarm was also heightened by the atmosphere in the Oval Office during this conversation, which reminded us of the interrogations we endured at the hands of the Security Services and the debates in Communist courts. Prosecutors and judges, acting on behalf of the all-powerful communist political police, would explain to us that they held all the power while we held none. They demanded that we cease our activities, arguing that thousands of innocent people suffered because of us. They stripped us of our freedoms and civil rights because we refused to cooperate with the government or express gratitude for our oppression. We are shocked that President Volodymyr Zelensky was treated in the same manner.
The history of the 20th century shows that whenever the United States sought to distance itself from democratic values and its European allies, it ultimately became a threat to itself. President Woodrow Wilson understood this when he decided in 1917 that the United States must join World War I. President Franklin Delano Roosevelt understood this when, after the attack on Pearl Harbor in December 1941, he resolved that the war to defend America must be fought not only in the Pacific but also in Europe, in alliance with the nations under attack by the Third Reich.
We remember that without President Ronald Reagan and America’s financial commitment, the collapse of the Soviet empire would not have been possible. President Reagan recognized that millions of enslaved people suffered in Soviet russia and the countries it had subjugated, including thousands of political prisoners who paid for their defense of democratic values with their freedom. His greatness lay, among other things, in his unwavering decision to call the USSR an “Empire of Evil” and to fight it decisively. We won, and today, the statue of President Ronald Reagan stands in Warsaw, facing the U.S. Embassy.
Mr. President, material aid—military and financial—can never be equated with the blood shed in the name of Ukraine’s independence and the freedom of Europe and the entire free world. Human life is priceless; its value cannot be measured in money. Gratitude is due to those who sacrifice their blood and their freedom. This is self-evident to us, the people of Solidarity, former political prisoners of the communist regime under Soviet russia.
We call on the United States to uphold the guarantees made alongside Great Britain in the 1994 Budapest Memorandum, which established a direct obligation to defend Ukraine’s territorial integrity in exchange for its relinquishment of nuclear weapons. These guarantees are unconditional—there is no mention of treating such assistance as an economic transaction.
Signed,
Lech Wałęsa, former political prisoner, President of Poland"

I saw that earlier.  My first reaction was "I thought he was dead" lol.  The old revolutionary fighters die hard.  I get it.  He's also not wrong about the Budapest Memorandum.  The time to have enforced the provisions under that was in 2014 however and subsequently during the invasion of Donbas.  The signees including England, France, US should have enforced that agreement early.  Certainly we should have in 2021 when Russian invaded the Ukraine.  You would have thought it would be a priority for them since I believe that Antony Blinken's father was the US signatory when he was Ambassador.  The UN also had a responsibility to step in (both times). 

I was surprised the few times that I was in Poland and Walesa wasn't more highly regarded.  We always think of him as this iconic figure.  The Poles are quite ambivalent about him.  He was evidently a better revolutionary than he was a leader.  Idk...just surprised me.

Zelensky needed a little tough love by his largest benefactor to move on from wartime mode and start to negotiate in earnest.  Glad it looks like he's at least listening.  Now will see how much pressure can be applied to Russia to push the boundaries back.  As Zelensky said, there would be no boundaries without the Javelins provided under Trump 45.  The whole country would have surely fallen.

badgervike wrote:

I saw that earlier.  My first reaction was "I thought he was dead" lol.  The old revolutionary fighters die hard.  I get it.  He's also not wrong about the Budapest Memorandum.  The time to have enforced the provisions under that was in 2014 however and subsequently during the invasion of Donbas.  The signees including England, France, US should have enforced that agreement early.  Certainly we should have in 2021 when Russian invaded the Ukraine.  You would have thought it would be a priority for them since I believe that Antony Blinken's father was the US signatory when he was Ambassador.  The UN also had a responsibility to step in (both times). 

I was surprised the few times that I was in Poland and Walesa wasn't more highly regarded.  We always think of him as this iconic figure.  The Poles are quite ambivalent about him.  He was evidently a better revolutionary than he was a leader.  Idk...just surprised me.

Zelensky needed a little tough love by his largest benefactor to move on from wartime mode and start to negotiate in earnest.  Glad it looks like he's at least listening.  Now will see how much pressure can be applied to Russia to push the boundaries back.  As Zelensky said, there would be no boundaries without the Javelins provided under Trump 45.  The whole country would have surely fallen.

There's no love, tough or otherwise, from our s**tbag traitor in chief, just theater that "gambles with WWIII" as much as anyone else in the mess.

The Javelins did a lot of good, the legendary toughness of the people that defeated Russian tanks with tractors was, and is, far more impressive.

Any goodwill regarding the Javelins should be pretty jaundiced by the already-agreed shipments halted, and for...theater. Just theater, so everyone can applaud the traitor in chief.

So, he's now passively-aggressively accusing Europe of not having our back, despite everything from recent years against terror, etc.

He should just take Putin's last name, make the marriage official, but please move to papa Putin's place and leave us out of it.

https://apnews.com/article/trump-nato-ukraine-c5fef35ca057a31a61cba6f611393999

"Trump said Thursday in the Oval Office that other countries would not come to the defense of the U.S. — though they have done exactly that, in the only instance that the Article 5 defense guarantee was invoked."

How much more blatant, disastrous, and fully Russian-positive s**t does anyone need? For f**k's sake, folks....

I dont think some people get to make fun of others posting incessantly on the same topic any longer.

JimmyinSD wrote:
I dont think some people get to make fun of others posting incessantly on the same topic any longer.

Yeah, because it's not like this is a current event with massive global consequences or anything, involving our own leader and potential international war...

...vs hammering on decisions made by our treasonous trash president 5 years ago, a nasty little science administrator, and dozens of links to conspiracy echo chambers.

The bias/favoritism can be seen from Alpha Centauri.

That said...no comment on the sunkist stain basically telling NATO that they don't have our backs, despite plenty of years on contrary evidence?

My shock is second only to...yeah, nevermind. No shock, whatsoever.

Zanary wrote:

Yeah, because it's not like this is a current event with massive global consequences or anything, involving our own leader and potential international war...

...vs hammering on decisions made by our treasonous trash president 5 years ago, a nasty little science administrator, and dozens of links to conspiracy echo chambers.

The bias/favoritism can be seen from Alpha Centauri.

That said...no comment on the sunkist stain basically telling NATO that they don't have our backs, despite plenty of years on contrary evidence?

My shock is second only to...yeah, nevermind. No shock, whatsoever.

keep on yammering,  like I say,  I dont really read your juvenile nonsense on this matter,  but have noted that you are largely talking to yourself much like another poster that you seem to like to mock for the same thing only on a different topic.

I think Trump really wants to strike a peace deal in Ukraine...Both to stop the killing, the stupid spending and for his own personal glory.

Any POTUS would luv the personal glory, so the Don isnt alone in that at all. 

The West should breathe a little easier after this post today:

“Based on the fact that Russia is absolutely “pounding” Ukraine on the battlefield right now, I am strongly considering large scale Banking Sanctions, Sanctions, and Tariffs on Russia until a Cease Fire and FINAL SETTLEMENT AGREEMENT ON PEACE IS REACHED,” Trump wrote on Truth Social.

“To Russia and Ukraine, get to the table right now, before it is too late. Thank you!!!” he went on.