Traitor in Chief Trump Has His Buddy's Back

badgervike wrote:

Macron said yesterday that any peace agreement would include permanent peacekeepers.  Rubio said the same today.  So..yes under those conditions...I would believe it.  This never should have happened in the first place and when it did, the US and European should have immediately stepped in.  After our impressive retreat from Afghanistan, I'm sure Putin was shaking in his boots that we were going to do anything to stop him.

Given how absurdly badly his newer hardware has fared over the last few years, he should have more humility by now.

Keir Starmer is a smart man, obviously hasn't forgotten the lessons of WW2:

British Prime Minister Keir Starmer has urged US President Donald Trump against accepting any peace deal in Ukraine that would “reward” Russia or its allies.

“Mr. President, I welcome your deep and personal commitment to bring peace and stop the killing,” Starmer said at a joint news conference after a meeting between the two leaders in the Oval Office on Thursday.

“But we have to get it right. There’s a famous slogan in the United Kingdom from after the Second World War that is ‘we have to win the peace,’ and that is what we must do now, because it can’t be peace that rewards the aggressor, or that gives encouragement to dangerous regimes like Iran,” he added.

Starmer also noted at the news conference that the UK had adopted its “biggest sustained increase in defense spending since the Cold War.”

purplefaithful wrote:
Keir Starmer is a smart man, obviously hasn't forgotten the lessons of WW2:

British Prime Minister Keir Starmer has urged US President Donald Trump against accepting any peace deal in Ukraine that would “reward” Russia or its allies.

“Mr. President, I welcome your deep and personal commitment to bring peace and stop the killing,” Starmer said at a joint news conference after a meeting between the two leaders in the Oval Office on Thursday.

“But we have to get it right. There’s a famous slogan in the United Kingdom from after the Second World War that is ‘we have to win the peace,’ and that is what we must do now, because it can’t be peace that rewards the aggressor, or that gives encouragement to dangerous regimes like Iran,” he added.

Starmer also noted at the news conference that the UK had adopted its “biggest sustained increase in defense spending since the Cold War.”

That's the first quote from him that I've been genuinely impressed by. He's had a lot of less-than-impressive moments dealing with THEIR hamas supporters and similar issues.

Back to Ukraine....

Zelensky is a moron, couldn't have handled todays meeting any worse than he did. The Ukrainian ambassador to the US had her head in her hands by the end.

Kellogg is right, the meeting should never have taken place. One Ukranian expert (imho) hit the nail on the head:

“Ukraine is losing this war,” the expert said. “Russia is making tens of thousands of drones per month, and Ukraine can’t shoot them all down. Russia is making advances because Russia doesn’t value human life and is OK to lose thousands of men a day. Ukraine can’t keep up with that and shouldn’t.”

There are three options for Ukraine now, he explained.

“One, America can send military weapons and manpower and potentially, this starts World War III.
“Two, Ukraine can surrender and give in to Putin.
“Or three, we give this ceasefire plan and deal that Trump is pushing a chance. I would go for option three. Trump was talking about Ukraine getting land back that it has lost just yesterday,” the expert said.

purplefaithful wrote:
Back to Ukraine....

Zelensky is a moron, couldn't have handled todays meeting any worse than he did. The Ukrainian ambassador to the US had her head in her hands by the end.

Kellogg is right, the meeting should never have taken place. One Ukranian expert (imho) hit the nail on the head:

“Ukraine is losing this war,” the expert said. “Russia is making tens of thousands of drones per month, and Ukraine can’t shoot them all down. Russia is making advances because Russia doesn’t value human life and is OK to lose thousands of men a day. Ukraine can’t keep up with that and shouldn’t.”

There are three options for Ukraine now, he explained.

“One, America can send military weapons and manpower and potentially, this starts World War III.
“Two, Ukraine can surrender and give in to Putin.
“Or three, we give this ceasefire plan and deal that Trump is pushing a chance. I would go for option three. Trump was talking about Ukraine getting land back that it has lost just yesterday,” the expert said.

Trumplestilskin is a completely petulant b***h, basically pulling a media ambush to get his ring kissed and prove he's THE DEALMAKER on the biggest stage while Vance played the part of the obnoxious, yapping spaniel...interrupting Zelensky and trying to emotionally blackmail a man whose country is actually under constant fire from Trump's "brilliant, very smart" bff.

This was truly sh***y, gutless, and I'm glad that the world leaders are largely stepping up their support for Ukraine...and dropping egg on orange boi's face in the process.

Truly the most childish, pathetic administration that I've lived to see. What a complete s**t show.

Zanary wrote:

Trumplestilskin is a completely petulant b***h, basically pulling a media ambush to get his ring kissed and prove he's THE DEALMAKER on the biggest stage while Vance played the part of the obnoxious, yapping spaniel...interrupting Zelensky and trying to emotionally blackmail a man whose country is actually under constant fire from Trump's "brilliant, very smart" bff.

This was truly sh***y, gutless, and I'm glad that the world leaders are largely stepping up their support for Ukraine...and dropping egg on orange boi's face in the process.

Truly the most childish, pathetic administration that I've lived to see. What a complete s**t show.

You sound quite objective.  lol. You’re so clueless, it’s laughable. I’ll guarantee you Trump isn’t the one in scramble mode right now.  Zelenskyy on the other hand either grovels back, loses his country, or is removed from power.  It wasn’t a good day for him.

That meeting should never have taken place:
 - The 2 sides weren't ready, big issues still to be hammered-out
 - Kyiv wants more security guarantees in mineral deal
 - Big miss by Trump Admin and Kyiv to hold that meeting between the leaders vs negotiating outside of media (not in front of cameras)

Zelensky has led his country valiantly the last 3 years, I am not sure he's the guy to lead it to peace. 

Yesterday was politically very bad for him here and at home. He may not survive in office, not sure he should.

purplefaithful wrote:
That meeting should never have taken place:  - The 2 sides weren't ready, big issues still to be hammered-out  - Kyiv wants more security guarantees in mineral deal  - Big miss by Trump Admin and Kyiv to hold that meeting between the leaders vs negotiating outside of media (not in front of cameras)

Zelensky has led his country valiantly the last 3 years, I am not sure he's the guy to lead it to peace. 

Yesterday was politically very bad for him here and at home. He may not survive in office, not sure he should.

It was an attempted press ambush by the orange stain and his pet spaniel, Vance. It was obviously an attempt to corner Zelensky into a deal that he felt was inadequate.

The babble of "Zelensky doesn't want peace" from people in the comfort of homes NOT under missile/drone/shell fire is truly odd to even consider. I get that people expect him be looking for any way out, but he's stood up to a monstrous Russian military and political assaults for years; his refusal to back down to a lying putin puppet isn't surprising. The deal, what I've seen of it, essentially offered the least of what they need most: security guarantees. Vlad's orange plaything thought Zelensky was more cornered than he was.

Trumplestilskin came off like a bad character from a Godfather movie, one too shallow and pathetic to stay in the script. Granted, he is treasonous trash whose great, big, sweeping "changes" need constant editing and groveling for wrongly-terminated people to come back...but, this was all about him completing THE DEAL in front of cameras to end a big war.

It barely had anything to do with Ukraine, Zelensky, or peace; it was all about the world's most shameless attention whore actually getting to perform on the biggest stage.

If he wants that, he'll need to get out from under vlad's covers thumb and make a real deal.

Zanary wrote:

It was an attempted press ambush by the orange stain and his pet spaniel, Vance. It was obviously an attempt to corner Zelensky into a deal that he felt was inadequate.

The babble of "Zelensky doesn't want peace" from people in the comfort of homes NOT under missile/drone/shell fire is truly odd to even consider. I get that people expect him be looking for any way out, but he's stood up to a monstrous Russian military and political assaults for years; his refusal to back down to a lying putin puppet isn't surprising. The deal, what I've seen of it, essentially offered the least of what they need most: security guarantees. Vlad's orange plaything thought Zelensky was more cornered than he was.

Trumplestilskin came off like a bad character from a Godfather movie, one too shallow and pathetic to stay in the script. Granted, he is treasonous trash whose great, big, sweeping "changes" need constant editing and groveling for wrongly-terminated people to come back...but, this was all about him completing THE DEAL in front of cameras to end a big war.

It barely had anything to do with Ukraine, Zelensky, or peace; it was all about the world's most shameless attention whore actually getting to perform on the biggest stage.

If he wants that, he'll need to get out from under vlad's covers thumb and make a real deal.

I never said he doesnt want peace, I said I'm not sure Zylensky is the leader to get them there. 

Yes, he wanted more security guarantees in the mineral deal and they weren't there yet - hence they had more negotiating to do and should never have met, let alone in front of cameras in the Oval Office. 

We'll just have to agree to disagree on this for the time being. Time could prove me wrong and if so, I'll own up to it then. 

I think in the end a deal will be made, the security guarantee will be British/French troops in Ukraine. But that seems like a long ways from yesterday now.

purplefaithful wrote:
That meeting should never have taken place:  - The 2 sides weren't ready, big issues still to be hammered-out  - Kyiv wants more security guarantees in mineral deal  - Big miss by Trump Admin and Kyiv to hold that meeting between the leaders vs negotiating outside of media (not in front of cameras)

Zelensky has led his country valiantly the last 3 years, I am not sure he's the guy to lead it to peace. 

Yesterday was politically very bad for him here and at home. He may not survive in office, not sure he should.

No it shouldn't have taken place.  Only one position happy with that fiasco, and that is Putin and his accolades, everyone else is rallying to Zelenskyy's side .  In the long run it's probably good globally, but the US gave up a lot of the future "cards" with any non Russian allies.  What did the US gain, trust, integrity, moral high ground, repayment of any debt's?  How do you bring a war time leader of an invaded country in and try to embarrass, intimidate and harass in public theater.   It takes a long time to establish good international relationships, and what we saw was the quick end to many of them.  It's the whole "disruption is a good thing" deal, in the free market for profit business model it can work, the most that gets hurt are the investors, owners and employees, not the nation.

BigAl99 wrote:

No it shouldn't have taken place.  Only one position happy with that fiasco, and that is Putin and his accolades, everyone else is rallying to Zelenskyy's side .  In the long run it's probably good globally, but the US gave up a lot of the future "cards" with any non Russian allies.  What did the US gain, trust, integrity, moral high ground, repayment of any debt's?  How do you bring a war time leader of an invaded country in and try to embarrass, intimidate and harass in public theater.   It takes a long time to establish good international relationships, and what we saw was the quick end to many of them.  It's the whole "disruption is a good thing" deal, in the free market for profit business model it can work, the most that gets hurt are the investors, owners and employees, not the nation.

There's a lot I dont like, but the one thing that is troublesome to me in this environment is how predatory the US is coming off geopolitically right now (Canada, Greenland etc.)

I've seen us as globalists, isolationists but (outside of Iraq) never predatory. I like to think of us in a better light with a better spirit I guess is what I'm saying. 

Old fashioned thinking on my part? Probably. Naive on my part? Most probably too. Will everyone agree? nope

purplefaithful wrote:

There's a lot I dont like, but the one thing that is troublesome to me in this environment is how predatory the US is coming off geopolitically right now (Canada, Greenland etc.)

I've seen us as globalists, isolationists but (outside of Iraq) never predatory. I like to think of us in a better light with a better spirit I guess is what I'm saying. 

Old fashioned thinking on my part? Probably. Naive on my part? Most probably too. Will everyone agree? nope

Look at history you're asking good questions.

Vance was a horror show, having re-watched things. What a complete douchebag, basically shouting down Zelensky with manners I wouldn't abide from a hyper 5 year old. Trump is bottom-rung filth, I've seen that for decades, but wow...what a s**tshow. I guess Vance (and, sadly, his family) were told to "GO SKI IN RUSSIA" at some resort this morning.

Given that he's working in putin's interests right now, I'll bet he'd be offered a pretty sweet lodge setup.

I’m so glad I kinda actually understand the world and how things work. lol

Zelensky is not a leader, he is a cia puppet and a piece of shit at that, and does not deserve the respect of any world leader that was elected in a real open election.

The US made that mess with the NATO threats and holds some accountability in its quick resolution, but if the war mongers or ignorant pride are going to still call the shots... then the US needs to severe the ties and let Europe figure it out. We can throw a bunch of sanctions on Russia to help end it, but our military and financial involvement needs to end.

JimmyinSD wrote:
Zelensky is not a leader,  he is a cia puppet and a piece of shit at that, and does not deserve the respect of any world leader that was elected in a real open election.

The US made that mess with the NATO threats and holds some accountability in its quick resolution,  but if the war mongers  or ignorant pride are going to still call the shots... then the US needs to severe the ties and let Europe figure it out.  We can throw a bunch of sanctions on Russia to help end it,  but our military and financial involvement needs to end.

Zelensky is more of a leader than the orange stain and his yapping lackey, more than they could dream of being. That media ambush was a new low point in betrayal and cowardice, with the "insults to the Oval Office" truly bad theater. Any history buff knows that Churchill also same, "unsuited", when his country was under attack in WWII.

Similarly, counties in the midst of warfare have suspended elections before...and Ukraine's parliament made the "dictator" fiction look even more moronic. However, the source is a known, proven liar, so...yeah, no surprises.

I don't want a single person injured or killed in that conflict (well, maybe in Moscow), but the "ZELENSKY DOESN'T WANT PEACE!!" narrative is pure bullshit, sprayed by the same kinds of armchair QBs that have never held a football on a field. Trusting "negotiations" between a shameless narcissist and his "brilliant, very smart guy" BFF when he's not even at the table...involving minerals both the orange stain and Vlad want?

WOW. That's a special level of blinders and misplaced faith....

Zanary wrote:

Zelensky is more of a leader than the orange stain and his yapping lackey, more than they could dream of being. That media ambush was a new low point in betrayal and cowardice, with the "insults to the Oval Office" truly bad theater. Any history buff knows that Churchill also same, "unsuited", when his country was under attack in WWII.

Similarly, counties in the midst of warfare have suspended elections before...and Ukraine's parliament made the "dictator" fiction look even more moronic. However, the source is a known, proven liar, so...yeah, no surprises.

I don't want a single person injured or killed in that conflict (well, maybe in Moscow), but the "ZELENSKY DOESN'T WANT PEACE!!" narrative is pure bullshit, sprayed by the same kinds of armchair QBs that have never held a football on a field. Trusting "negotiations" between a shameless narcissist and his "brilliant, very smart guy" BFF when he's not even at the table...involving minerals both the orange stain and Vlad want?

WOW. That's a special level of blinders and misplaced faith....

all i get is blah blah blah from you... come back when your ability to communicate reaches at least adult status,  this juvenile name calling really makes your position just unreadable.

JimmyinSD wrote:

all i get is blah blah blah from you... come back when your ability to communicate reaches at least adult status,  this juvenile name calling really makes your position just unreadable.

And all I get from you is Trump apologism, cherry picking, and obvious biases that you try and deny...but, hey, I just have very low expectations!

...and, for today's NON SHOCKER: Trump's still Russia's Bestie!

https://www.mediaite.com/trump/kremlin-spox-lauds-trump-white-house-for-rapidly-changing-us-foreign-policy-in-a-way-that-largely-coincides-with-our-vision/

“The new administration is rapidly changing all foreign policy configurations. This largely coincides with our vision,” Kremlin spokesperson Dmitry Peskov said on Sunday in a video published on Telegram.

Team Orange Boi must be at their proudest!

Zanary wrote:

Zelensky is more of a leader than the orange stain and his yapping lackey, more than they could dream of being. That media ambush was a new low point in betrayal and cowardice, with the "insults to the Oval Office" truly bad theater. Any history buff knows that Churchill also same, "unsuited", when his country was under attack in WWII.

Similarly, counties in the midst of warfare have suspended elections before...and Ukraine's parliament made the "dictator" fiction look even more moronic. However, the source is a known, proven liar, so...yeah, no surprises.

I don't want a single person injured or killed in that conflict (well, maybe in Moscow), but the "ZELENSKY DOESN'T WANT PEACE!!" narrative is pure bullshit, sprayed by the same kinds of armchair QBs that have never held a football on a field. Trusting "negotiations" between a shameless narcissist and his "brilliant, very smart guy" BFF when he's not even at the table...involving minerals both the orange stain and Vlad want?

WOW. That's a special level of blinders and misplaced faith....

Save me the faux indignity Z.  Biden also told him that he could show some "f@cking gratitude" after signing another $1B over and having Z start listing the other things he needed.

If you watch the entire 40 min+ clip, Z came in hot...the meeting was already off the rails before that last 5 min clip aired by the MSM.  Z wasn't there to sign the mineral rights deal...which is frankly for unproven mineral reserves in a hostile region...not sure you were going to get a lot of takers on that one.   It was a bone thrown to him to allow both countries to recoup some wartime expenditures and provide a US civilian presence as a deterrent.  If you watch the extended clip..Z made it abundantly clear right at the beginning of the meeting that he wouldn't agree to any concessions for peace.  I mean...right at the beginning.  He also poked Trump that the war never stopped in the Ukraine after the Minsk agreements and continued through Trump's term which isn't accurate.  There were some skirmishes (particularly Naval) but certainly not at the same level.  They also had a fun exchange where Z talked about events in 2016 under Trump's presidency to which Trump replied he wasn't President in 2016..only to be corrected by Zelensky (Trump wasn't President in 2016).  

Z still is holding out for all territories including Crimea to be returned, Russia to pay for reconstruction, NATO membership..and he wants the West to give him Nukes to replace the Soviet ones that were once in the Ukraine.  Does this sound like a reasonable set of demands from a Country that is slowly losing a war?  The Ukrainians fought valiantly particularly with US provided weaponry  The Ukraine has started to conscript soldiers so you can bet a mass exodus isn't far behind.  I talked to my Ukrainian friends over the weekend and they are working on emigrating from the Ukraine.  They told me that life is too short to live with a cloud hanging over their head.
The opportunity for Peace is now for the Ukraine.  Nobody should be faced with what the Ukraine has gone through. The time to intervene on their behalf against Russia is far behind at this point.  The feckless leadership in Europe who negotiated the Minsk agreement did nothing when Russia invaded the Ukraine nor did our Coward in Chief, Biden.  Frankly, isn't this the type of thing that was originally supposed to be a UN responsibility?  Guess they're too busy having countries like Rwanda censure the US for human rights violations.

We'll see if the European's step up.  There's a part of me that thinks some of the "meeting" wasn't intended to make it abundantly clear that Zelensky wasn't willing to negotiate for peace.  He didn't disappoint. It's highly unusual to have an extended discussion in front of the press.  Usually, you have a very quick..."we welcome so and so..and look forward to discussions on"....and then shoo away the press.  That's typically followed by a press conference after the meeting.  The timing of the visits from Macron and Stermer just prior and their immediatel intervention after make it look like it was an expected outcome.  If Z loses US support, he loses the Ukraine...period.  The Administration has been growing increasingly frustrated by Z's refusal to negotiate for Ukraine's survival.  Even with US and European support, Ukraine is slowly losing the war.  The Russians are investing 10% of GDP on their weaponry modernizing in many ways including UAVs that have proven effective.  Much like the Gulf war for the US, the Ukraine war has given the Russians an opportunity to try out some new weapons and methods.

Winston Churchill was an historically good PM who led Britain admirably through a terrible war. He inherited a brutal mess from Neville Chamberlain (to say the least.)

Churchill was voted out in 1945.

I bring this up because I think Zelensky (like Churchill) was at his best as a war time leader. But he may not be a leader capable of getting Ukraine to peace.