A Cautionary Tale
A common belief: Teams need to take risks to escape the purgatory of .500 football. Also you can't do the "rebuild" portion of a competitive rebuild while paying Kirk market value.
6 years ago Washinton was faced with a similar dilemma with the same QB. In the 2 seasons prior to Cousins taking over, the Redskins went 3-13 and 4-12. In the 3 seasons with Cousins as the starter, Washington had a winning record and won a division title, despite having a defense that ranked 28th, 28th and 21st. Obviously the QB was not the problem. Who did they get rid of? The QB.
2 years ago, the Vikings won 13 games despite having the 31st ranked defense. Last year, the Vikings beat the Packers and the 49ers, and played the Chiefs down to the wire, despite not having JJ or a running game. Obviously the QB was not the problem. Who are we about to get rid of? The QB.
In the 6 seasons since letting Cousins go, Washington has gone through 12 different starters trying to replace him. 12 starters in 6 seasons. The QB they take this April will be number 13. To their credit, the people in Washington who had a hand in the Cousins decision now admit that it was a big mistake.
Those who do not learn from history...
@"purplefaithful" said:@"DeepFreeze05" said: Cousins (6 seasons) W L. T 2023: 4 4 02022: 13 4 0
2021: 8 9 0
2020: 7 9 0
2019: 10 6 0
2018: 8 7 1
_________________
50 39 1Before Cousins (6 seasons)
2017: 13 3 0
2016: 8 8 0
2015: 11 5 0
2014: 7 9 0
2013: 5 10 1
2012: 10 6 0
________________
54 41 1
I dont believe in QB wins...I bet there is a strong correlation on these records and the ranking of the Vikings Defense in a given season too.
Apparently you weren't paying attention in class,It's all about the QB. It's ALL about the QB. And for those in back....IT'S ALL ABOUT THE FUCKING QB!!!!!
@"CFIAvike" said:@"StickyBun" said:@"MaroonBells" said:@"medaille" said: I don’t believe that you can compare a fucked up franchise with a functional one, in the same way that you can’t look at the kids of the parents who are abusive and think that their problems are also going to be your kids problems. I also don’t believe that you can look at Washington as a organization that is really that serious at fixing their QB problem. Since Cousins was drafted a billion years ago, they’ve drafted 3 QBs, Dwayne Haskins who was out of the league in 2 years, a 5th rounder, and a 6th rounder. Their FA hauls look like a team that’s barely tryin
It doesn't take long for dysfunctional franchises to become functional. And it sure as hell doesn't take long for functional ones to become dysfunctional. Look at New England. That might be the worst team in the NFL right now. Is that a dysfunctional org?It's all about the QB. It's ALL about the QB. And for those in back....IT'S ALL ABOUT THE FUCKING QB!!!!!
A little birdie told me the team really likes this guy:
Woof…I have so many doubts that this guy is gonna be able to make it through an NFL season, but if the team isn’t worried…so be it I guess.
I mean, after the top 3 were really just flinging shit against the wall and seeing what sticks. He’s got as good a shot as any, I suppose
Not saying he's #1 on their board, but saying they like him maybe more than other teams. Its that arm talent, pocket presence and maturity. I think the belief is that JJ and Addison are SO superior at route running that they get open deep quite often because of that despite not having elite speed. Its one of the few spots Cousins fails at: seeing a guy break open deep late and having enough arm to still get it out there in stride. In fact, he's often not looking for that because he knows he doesn't have the arm for it. It would add a dimension to the offense.
I would not be upset with Penix at 11. He’s built for this push it down the hashes passing game. Hes a little spindly in his lower half, and he chucked and ducked in the CFP game. Both worrisome.
Kwesi is gonna have to identify that stuff and weed him out if need be. Better yet we can trade down 8 spots, pick up a 3rd and still get him. There are about 15 possibly elite prospects in the draft not counting QB’s so that bodes well for a possible trade down.
@"Bullazin" said: I would not be upset with Penix at 11. He’s built for this push it down the hashes passing game. Hes a little spindly in his lower half, and he chucked and ducked in the CFP game. Both worrisome.Kwesi is gonna have to identify that stuff and weed him out if need be. Better yet we can trade down 8 spots, pick up a 3rd and still get him. There are about 15 possibly elite prospects in the draft not counting QB’s so that bodes well for a possible trade down.
I heard a good draftnik take on Penix vs JJM...
Said that Penix (more than most) needs a good platform under him to maintain accuracy and that this could be problematic in the NFL.
Just significantly less time to throw in pro's vs college, need to move around in/out of the pocket more on Sundays.
This was a big, distinguishing trait between the two.
I guess everyone has a take...
@"purplefaithful" said:@"Bullazin" said: I would not be upset with Penix at 11. He’s built for this push it down the hashes passing game. Hes a little spindly in his lower half, and he chucked and ducked in the CFP game. Both worrisome.Kwesi is gonna have to identify that stuff and weed him out if need be. Better yet we can trade down 8 spots, pick up a 3rd and still get him. There are about 15 possibly elite prospects in the draft not counting QB’s so that bodes well for a possible trade down.
I heard a good draftnik take on Penix vs JJM...Said that Penix (more than most) needs a good platform under him to maintain accuracy and that this could be problematic in the NFL.
Just significantly less time to throw in pro's vs college, need to move around in/out of the pocket more on Sundays.
This was a big, distinguishing trait between the two.I guess everyone has a take...
Michigan exposed him. I don’t know what people can’t see. Against a real defense, he crumbles. NFL defenses are going to eat his lunch. The guy is a shittier Jameis Winston.
@"CFIAvike" said:@"purplefaithful" said:@"Bullazin" said: I would not be upset with Penix at 11. He’s built for this push it down the hashes passing game. Hes a little spindly in his lower half, and he chucked and ducked in the CFP game. Both worrisome.Kwesi is gonna have to identify that stuff and weed him out if need be. Better yet we can trade down 8 spots, pick up a 3rd and still get him. There are about 15 possibly elite prospects in the draft not counting QB’s so that bodes well for a possible trade down.
I heard a good draftnik take on Penix vs JJM...Said that Penix (more than most) needs a good platform under him to maintain accuracy and that this could be problematic in the NFL.
Just significantly less time to throw in pro's vs college, need to move around in/out of the pocket more on Sundays.
This was a big, distinguishing trait between the two.I guess everyone has a take...
Michigan exposed him. I don’t know what people can’t see. Against a real defense, he crumbles. NFL defenses are going to eat his lunch. The guy is a shittier Jameis Winston.
Again, its opinions: yours, mine and the world's. You act like its a definite, it isn't. I'm really not sure how I feel personally about Penix, but he's got flags just like anyone outside of Caleb Williams does.
Washington was a shit show and no one wanted to play for Washington. We saw the second half of last season what life was like without Cousins. But at some point they have to draft a qb. It's a mixed bag either way but soon we'll see what happens
@"purplefaithful" said:@"Bullazin" said: I would not be upset with Penix at 11. He’s built for this push it down the hashes passing game. Hes a little spindly in his lower half, and he chucked and ducked in the CFP game. Both worrisome.Kwesi is gonna have to identify that stuff and weed him out if need be. Better yet we can trade down 8 spots, pick up a 3rd and still get him. There are about 15 possibly elite prospects in the draft not counting QB’s so that bodes well for a possible trade down.
I heard a good draftnik take on Penix vs JJM...Said that Penix (more than most) needs a good platform under him to maintain accuracy and that this could be problematic in the NFL.
Just significantly less time to throw in pro's vs college, need to move around in/out of the pocket more on Sundays.
This was a big, distinguishing trait between the two.I guess everyone has a take...
that may be true, but one thing about him is that he is very very quick to get reset and get the ball out. most guys rolling out with flip the ball without even trying to set up, I have seen Penix roll out, and like lightning get his momentum stopped, set his feet and deliver strikes. He is very much an enigma for me as I just dont know if his game will transition well, but damn if it wont be fun watching him somewhere, the kid is just fun when he isnt getting the shit kicked out of him or isnt nursing an injury.
@"JimmyinSD" said:@"purplefaithful" said:@"Bullazin" said: I would not be upset with Penix at 11. He’s built for this push it down the hashes passing game. Hes a little spindly in his lower half, and he chucked and ducked in the CFP game. Both worrisome.Kwesi is gonna have to identify that stuff and weed him out if need be. Better yet we can trade down 8 spots, pick up a 3rd and still get him. There are about 15 possibly elite prospects in the draft not counting QB’s so that bodes well for a possible trade down.
I heard a good draftnik take on Penix vs JJM...Said that Penix (more than most) needs a good platform under him to maintain accuracy and that this could be problematic in the NFL.
Just significantly less time to throw in pro's vs college, need to move around in/out of the pocket more on Sundays.
This was a big, distinguishing trait between the two.I guess everyone has a take...
that may be true, but one thing about him is that he is very very quick to get reset and get the ball out. most guys rolling out with flip the ball without even trying to set up, I have seen Penix roll out, and like lightning get his momentum stopped, set his feet and deliver strikes. He is very much an enigma for me as I just dont know if his game will transition well, but damn if it wont be fun watching him somewhere, the kid is just fun when he isnt getting the shit kicked out of him or isnt nursing an injury.
We all need a good platform :)Honestly not picking on purplefaith but that sounds like a no-brainer to me. It's like saying a QB needs a clean pocket. Yes they all thrive in a clean pocket on a f'in platform :)
@"minny65" said:@"JimmyinSD" said:@"purplefaithful" said:@"Bullazin" said: I would not be upset with Penix at 11. He’s built for this push it down the hashes passing game. Hes a little spindly in his lower half, and he chucked and ducked in the CFP game. Both worrisome.Kwesi is gonna have to identify that stuff and weed him out if need be. Better yet we can trade down 8 spots, pick up a 3rd and still get him. There are about 15 possibly elite prospects in the draft not counting QB’s so that bodes well for a possible trade down.
I heard a good draftnik take on Penix vs JJM...Said that Penix (more than most) needs a good platform under him to maintain accuracy and that this could be problematic in the NFL.
Just significantly less time to throw in pro's vs college, need to move around in/out of the pocket more on Sundays.
This was a big, distinguishing trait between the two.I guess everyone has a take...
that may be true, but one thing about him is that he is very very quick to get reset and get the ball out. most guys rolling out with flip the ball without even trying to set up, I have seen Penix roll out, and like lightning get his momentum stopped, set his feet and deliver strikes. He is very much an enigma for me as I just dont know if his game will transition well, but damn if it wont be fun watching him somewhere, the kid is just fun when he isnt getting the shit kicked out of him or isnt nursing an injury.
We all need a good platform :)Honestly not picking on purplefaith but that sounds like a no-brainer to me. It's like saying a QB needs a clean pocket. Yes they all thrive in a clean pocket on a f'in platform :)
Yeah, some of the assessments by the 'experts' usually contradict themselves several times in the same article. I'm starting to go blind....and its still what, 6 weeks away? Yuck.
@"AGRforever" said:IT won't take 5-6 years, it'll take 1/4 of the first season.@"MaroonBells" said:@"JR44" said: If Cousins was 29 like he was when Washington let him go, we would not be having this conversation, because he would have already had an extension. Letting a healthy 29 year old go as opposed to a 36 year old coming off a major surgery are two completely different situations.
You're right that the situations are not perfectly equal. And if you think it's time for the Vikings to draft Cousins' eventual replacement because of his age, you'll get no argument from me.But this is a post about how hard it is for teams to find good QBs. There are at least a dozen teams who need one. Washington has been through 12 different starters in the 6 seasons since Kirk left. The Bears have spent 104 years searching for a QB. The Lions spent 60 years looking for a guy despite picking in the top 10 perennially. Harrington, Ware, Chuck Long. All 1st rounders, all busts. And the Browns with Mayfield, Manziel, Quinn, Couch. All 1st rounders, all busts.
I think the lesson here is that when you have a good QB, you keep him until you have a competent replacement.
We have a QB. We should re-sign said QB. We should also draft a QB in the 1st to replace him. Preferable this year.
I think we'll look back on letting Kirk walk as a mistake in 5-6 years.
@Maroon is right - such a simple premise; keep your good QB till you have one in the wings. Leave it to the Vikings to f it up.
Hey Vikings, look one state to the east to see how to manage a qb in the pros.
Here's another cautionary tale:
https://www.foxsports.com/stories/nfl/mac-jones-spiral-should-serve-as-a-warning-for-patriots-new-regime
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