That first half was surreal

The first half was pretty amazing,  not sure what the saints were doing after half but neither Dobbs nor KOC seemed to either,   lets hope they can figure it out,   because I'm pretty sure other teams will be deploying a similar approach against Dobbs unless they can show they can consistently win against it.  Really seemed like 2 different teams out there after half,  both offensively and defensively.   Kind of like the reverse of last years Colts game. 

Well, lets get real about the 2nd half: it wasn't great, but also the Vikings had a TD taken off the board, shut down their offense on a drive that was kept going because of a bullshit penalty, etc. Missed FG. Dumb penalties. Minnesota could have easily scored more points. KOC also went conservative. It wasn't like the Saints figured something out. 

@"StickyBun" said: Well, lets get real about the 2nd half: it wasn't great, but also the Vikings had a TD taken off the board, shut down their offense on a drive that was kept going because of a bullshit penalty, etc. Missed FG. Dumb penalties. Minnesota could have easily scored more points. KOC also went conservative. It wasn't like the Saints figured something out. 

@"JimmyinSD" said:

@"StickyBun" said: Well, lets get real about the 2nd half: it wasn't great, but also the Vikings had a TD taken off the board, shut down their offense on a drive that was kept going because of a bullshit penalty, etc. Missed FG. Dumb penalties. Minnesota could have easily scored more points. KOC also went conservative. It wasn't like the Saints figured something out. 

I guess we saw it differently,   I saw Dobbs do whatever he wanted in the first half and struggle more in the 2nd half,  I think the aints made some adjustments that we didn't counter very well.  Sometimes penalties come from not having a good blocking scheme called or other things the D is doing that you didn't expect.   Missed FG... it was about 55 IIRC,  hardly an indication of a successful drive.  Either way,  the tide shifted and it wasnt the same result.

@"StickyBun" said:

@"JimmyinSD" said:

@"StickyBun" said: Well, lets get real about the 2nd half: it wasn't great, but also the Vikings had a TD taken off the board, shut down their offense on a drive that was kept going because of a bullshit penalty, etc. Missed FG. Dumb penalties. Minnesota could have easily scored more points. KOC also went conservative. It wasn't like the Saints figured something out. 

I guess we saw it differently,   I saw Dobbs do whatever he wanted in the first half and struggle more in the 2nd half,  I think the aints made some adjustments that we didn't counter very well.  Sometimes penalties come from not having a good blocking scheme called or other things the D is doing that you didn't expect.   Missed FG... it was about 55 IIRC,  hardly an indication of a successful drive.  Either way,  the tide shifted and it wasnt the same result.

I didn't say Dobbs wasn't less effective in the 2nd half. What I'm saying is the team left at least 10 points on the table after halftime. It should have been a more comfortable win. There's no perfect game. Cincy gave up 14 points in a minute yesterday. Look around the league, its very normal. I just don't get the fans going this morning, 'yeah, but the 2nd half.....'. Its a total eye roll for me. Its the same stuff I see unrealistic fans get on Kirk Cousins about. 

Dobbs has still been a Viking less than 2 weeks, lol. Just something to consider.

KOC in the second half was more a mathematician. In his presser he mentioned the following 

• He owned up to the poor second half
• said they analysed the number of times each team will have the ball and where pretty good with slowing the game down
• he felt if they had one more score they would put the gane beyond reach (again without us turning the ball over) so that was what they were playing for 
• they wanted to protect the ball and steal a possession to make it even harder (and slow the game)
• So with that in mind, l running the ball made sense
• Well then Jamies happened which changed the dynamics and our offense could not get back in groove.
• Interestingly, the game would have been easier if we converted two more first downs. 

What Dobbs is doing is nothing short of miraculous. Ever since KOC encouraged Cousins (of all people) to run more last year, I've had this sneaking suspicion that a running QB might just be the key to unlocking this offense. They key piece that takes it from good to great. 

@"JimmyinSD" said:

@"StickyBun" said:

@"JimmyinSD" said:

@"StickyBun" said: Well, lets get real about the 2nd half: it wasn't great, but also the Vikings had a TD taken off the board, shut down their offense on a drive that was kept going because of a bullshit penalty, etc. Missed FG. Dumb penalties. Minnesota could have easily scored more points. KOC also went conservative. It wasn't like the Saints figured something out. 

I guess we saw it differently,   I saw Dobbs do whatever he wanted in the first half and struggle more in the 2nd half,  I think the aints made some adjustments that we didn't counter very well.  Sometimes penalties come from not having a good blocking scheme called or other things the D is doing that you didn't expect.   Missed FG... it was about 55 IIRC,  hardly an indication of a successful drive.  Either way,  the tide shifted and it wasnt the same result.

I didn't say Dobbs wasn't less effective in the 2nd half. What I'm saying is the team left at least 10 points on the table after halftime. It should have been a more comfortable win. There's no perfect game. Cincy gave up 14 points in a minute yesterday. Look around the league, its very normal. I just don't get the fans going this morning, 'yeah, but the 2nd half.....'. Its a total eye roll for me. Its the same stuff I see unrealistic fans get on Kirk Cousins about. 

Dobbs has still been a Viking less than 2 weeks, lol. Just something to consider.

I want putting the 2nd half struggles in him alone,   I said play calling needs to adjust,  he just runs the plays he's given.   The saints adjusted their blitz to help contain him as well,  he didn't have the escape lanes in the 2nd he had in the first half.

I'm not dogging Dobbs,  just pointing out adjustments were made and it was effective imo.

@"AGRforever" said:

@"JimmyinSD" said:

@"StickyBun" said:

@"JimmyinSD" said:

@"StickyBun" said: Well, lets get real about the 2nd half: it wasn't great, but also the Vikings had a TD taken off the board, shut down their offense on a drive that was kept going because of a bullshit penalty, etc. Missed FG. Dumb penalties. Minnesota could have easily scored more points. KOC also went conservative. It wasn't like the Saints figured something out. 

I guess we saw it differently,   I saw Dobbs do whatever he wanted in the first half and struggle more in the 2nd half,  I think the aints made some adjustments that we didn't counter very well.  Sometimes penalties come from not having a good blocking scheme called or other things the D is doing that you didn't expect.   Missed FG... it was about 55 IIRC,  hardly an indication of a successful drive.  Either way,  the tide shifted and it wasnt the same result.

I didn't say Dobbs wasn't less effective in the 2nd half. What I'm saying is the team left at least 10 points on the table after halftime. It should have been a more comfortable win. There's no perfect game. Cincy gave up 14 points in a minute yesterday. Look around the league, its very normal. I just don't get the fans going this morning, 'yeah, but the 2nd half.....'. Its a total eye roll for me. Its the same stuff I see unrealistic fans get on Kirk Cousins about. 

Dobbs has still been a Viking less than 2 weeks, lol. Just something to consider.

I want putting the 2nd half struggles in him alone,   I said play calling needs to adjust,  he just runs the plays he's given.   The saints adjusted their blitz to help contain him as well,  he didn't have the escape lanes in the 2nd he had in the first half.

I'm not dogging Dobbs,  just pointing out adjustments were made and it was effective imo.

Could have been the eye test, but to me it looked like the aints blitzed Dobbs a ton more and I said the same thing. Whomever the Vikings play going forward, they’ll look to the 2nd half on how to play it. 

Where I hold out hope, TJH was sitting a ton more in the 2nd half and he was the offense in the first half. Jefferson is going to be back soon. Imagine our best player having fun with this new offense. 

@"AGRforever" said:

@"JimmyinSD" said:

@"StickyBun" said:

@"JimmyinSD" said:

@"StickyBun" said: Well, lets get real about the 2nd half: it wasn't great, but also the Vikings had a TD taken off the board, shut down their offense on a drive that was kept going because of a bullshit penalty, etc. Missed FG. Dumb penalties. Minnesota could have easily scored more points. KOC also went conservative. It wasn't like the Saints figured something out. 

I guess we saw it differently,   I saw Dobbs do whatever he wanted in the first half and struggle more in the 2nd half,  I think the aints made some adjustments that we didn't counter very well.  Sometimes penalties come from not having a good blocking scheme called or other things the D is doing that you didn't expect.   Missed FG... it was about 55 IIRC,  hardly an indication of a successful drive.  Either way,  the tide shifted and it wasnt the same result.

I didn't say Dobbs wasn't less effective in the 2nd half. What I'm saying is the team left at least 10 points on the table after halftime. It should have been a more comfortable win. There's no perfect game. Cincy gave up 14 points in a minute yesterday. Look around the league, its very normal. I just don't get the fans going this morning, 'yeah, but the 2nd half.....'. Its a total eye roll for me. Its the same stuff I see unrealistic fans get on Kirk Cousins about. 

Dobbs has still been a Viking less than 2 weeks, lol. Just something to consider.

I want putting the 2nd half struggles in him alone,   I said play calling needs to adjust,  he just runs the plays he's given.   The saints adjusted their blitz to help contain him as well,  he didn't have the escape lanes in the 2nd he had in the first half.

I'm not dogging Dobbs,  just pointing out adjustments were made and it was effective imo.

Could have been the eye test, but to me it looked like the aints blitzed Dobbs a ton more and I said the same thing. Whomever the Vikings play going forward, they’ll look to the 2nd half on how to play it. 

Where I hold out hope, TJH was sitting a ton more in the 2nd half and he was the offense in the first half. Jefferson is going to be back soon. Imagine our best player having fun with this new offense. 

@"mblack" said: KOC in the second half was more a mathematician. In his presser he mentioned the following 

• He owned up to the poor second half
• said they analysed the number of times each team will have the ball and where pretty good with slowing the game down
• he felt if they had one more score they would put the gane beyond reach (again without us turning the ball over) so that was what they were playing for 
• they wanted to protect the ball and steal a possession to make it even harder (and slow the game)
• So with that in mind, l running the ball made sense
• Well then Jamies happened which changed the dynamics and our offense could not get back in groove.
• Interestingly, the game would have been easier if we converted two more first downs. 

i think KOC is not going to go deep in his play book / game plan if he does not have to. The less he reveals the more he has to work with down the stretch. I dont think us being in these close one score games is all due to tough opponents. i think it has to do more with them counting possessions which sometimes bites them in the butt with turnovers and poor execution.  He is still growing in his role.

@"mblack" said: KOC in the second half was more a mathematician. In his presser he mentioned the following 

• He owned up to the poor second half
• said they analysed the number of times each team will have the ball and where pretty good with slowing the game down
• he felt if they had one more score they would put the gane beyond reach (again without us turning the ball over) so that was what they were playing for 
• they wanted to protect the ball and steal a possession to make it even harder (and slow the game)
• So with that in mind, l running the ball made sense
• Well then Jamies happened which changed the dynamics and our offense could not get back in groove.
• Interestingly, the game would have been easier if we converted two more first downs. 

i think KOC is not going to go deep in his play book / game plan if he does not have to. The less he reveals the more he has to work with down the stretch. I dont think us being in these close one score games is all due to tough opponents. i think it has to do more with them counting possessions which sometimes bites them in the butt with turnovers and poor execution.  He is still growing in his role.

Jameis pulled a rabbit out of his ass on a few throws but then threw 2 horrible INTs. Fine with me.

@"JimmyinSD" said:

@"mblack" said: KOC in the second half was more a mathematician. In his presser he mentioned the following 

• He owned up to the poor second half
• said they analysed the number of times each team will have the ball and where pretty good with slowing the game down
• he felt if they had one more score they would put the gane beyond reach (again without us turning the ball over) so that was what they were playing for 
• they wanted to protect the ball and steal a possession to make it even harder (and slow the game)
• So with that in mind, l running the ball made sense
• Well then Jamies happened which changed the dynamics and our offense could not get back in groove.
• Interestingly, the game would have been easier if we converted two more first downs. 

i think KOC is not going to go deep in his play book / game plan if he does not have to. The less he reveals the more he has to work with down the stretch. I dont think us being in these close one score games is all due to tough opponents. i think it has to do more with them counting possessions which sometimes bites them in the butt with turnovers and poor execution.  He is still growing in his role.

this sounds like something Zimmer would have said.... I have never understood the notion that momentum is like a throttle,  IMO you can dial back the risk,  without going into a shell.  its damn tough to get a key turnover or big play that will swing momentum back your way once you lose it,  so why give it up willingly?  as far as saving plays.... a team can only practice against so many things in a given week,  sure you dont want to loose your "special" plays that you may need for a key 2 point conversion or late game situation,  but again,  you dont have to go into a shell when what you are doing is getting sniffed out.  IMO the best way to eat the clock and keep the other team from coming back,  first downs,  keep those chains moving and the rest will take care of itself.

@"mblack" said:

@"JimmyinSD" said:

@"mblack" said: KOC in the second half was more a mathematician. In his presser he mentioned the following 

• He owned up to the poor second half
• said they analysed the number of times each team will have the ball and where pretty good with slowing the game down
• he felt if they had one more score they would put the gane beyond reach (again without us turning the ball over) so that was what they were playing for 
• they wanted to protect the ball and steal a possession to make it even harder (and slow the game)
• So with that in mind, l running the ball made sense
• Well then Jamies happened which changed the dynamics and our offense could not get back in groove.
• Interestingly, the game would have been easier if we converted two more first downs. 

i think KOC is not going to go deep in his play book / game plan if he does not have to. The less he reveals the more he has to work with down the stretch. I dont think us being in these close one score games is all due to tough opponents. i think it has to do more with them counting possessions which sometimes bites them in the butt with turnovers and poor execution.  He is still growing in his role.

this sounds like something Zimmer would have said.... I have never understood the notion that momentum is like a throttle,  IMO you can dial back the risk,  without going into a shell.  its damn tough to get a key turnover or big play that will swing momentum back your way once you lose it,  so why give it up willingly?  as far as saving plays.... a team can only practice against so many things in a given week,  sure you dont want to loose your "special" plays that you may need for a key 2 point conversion or late game situation,  but again,  you dont have to go into a shell when what you are doing is getting sniffed out.  IMO the best way to eat the clock and keep the other team from coming back,  first downs,  keep those chains moving and the rest will take care of itself.

At the bold... You have to bring that name up again :angry: . That was exactly what I thought when he said it. The difference is KOC actually explained his thought process. It actually was refreshing to hear it was not chance but they thought it through. I am OK with that. I also like the fact that he owned up to it. However, I think Jamies happened and they could not recover. I do hope that is a lesson.

@"mblack" said: KOC in the second half was more a mathematician. In his presser he mentioned the following 

• He owned up to the poor second half
• said they analysed the number of times each team will have the ball and where pretty good with slowing the game down
• he felt if they had one more score they would put the gane beyond reach (again without us turning the ball over) so that was what they were playing for 
• they wanted to protect the ball and steal a possession to make it even harder (and slow the game)
• So with that in mind, l running the ball made sense
• Well then Jamies happened which changed the dynamics and our offense could not get back in groove.
• Interestingly, the game would have been easier if we converted two more first downs. 

i think KOC is not going to go deep in his play book / game plan if he does not have to. The less he reveals the more he has to work with down the stretch. I dont think us being in these close one score games is all due to tough opponents. i think it has to do more with them counting possessions which sometimes bites them in the butt with turnovers and poor execution.  He is still growing in his role.

This, & the unmentionable Mannion being the next man up, gulp…!  ;) 

@"mblack" said: KOC in the second half was more a mathematician. In his presser he mentioned the following 

• He owned up to the poor second half
• said they analysed the number of times each team will have the ball and where pretty good with slowing the game down
• he felt if they had one more score they would put the gane beyond reach (again without us turning the ball over) so that was what they were playing for 
• they wanted to protect the ball and steal a possession to make it even harder (and slow the game)
• So with that in mind, l running the ball made sense
• Well then Jamies happened which changed the dynamics and our offense could not get back in groove.
• Interestingly, the game would have been easier if we converted two more first downs. 

i think KOC is not going to go deep in his play book / game plan if he does not have to. The less he reveals the more he has to work with down the stretch. I dont think us being in these close one score games is all due to tough opponents. i think it has to do more with them counting possessions which sometimes bites them in the butt with turnovers and poor execution.  He is still growing in his role.

@"Tyr" said:

@"mblack" said: KOC in the second half was more a mathematician. In his presser he mentioned the following 

• He owned up to the poor second half
• said they analysed the number of times each team will have the ball and where pretty good with slowing the game down
• he felt if they had one more score they would put the gane beyond reach (again without us turning the ball over) so that was what they were playing for 
• they wanted to protect the ball and steal a possession to make it even harder (and slow the game)
• So with that in mind, l running the ball made sense
• Well then Jamies happened which changed the dynamics and our offense could not get back in groove.
• Interestingly, the game would have been easier if we converted two more first downs. 

i think KOC is not going to go deep in his play book / game plan if he does not have to. The less he reveals the more he has to work with down the stretch. I dont think us being in these close one score games is all due to tough opponents. i think it has to do more with them counting possessions which sometimes bites them in the butt with turnovers and poor execution.  He is still growing in his role.

I get the idea of wanting to slow down the game and protect the lead, but they are not capable of closing out games on the ground right now. There was one sequence with around 4-minutes left where they handed the ball off three times in a row. It did get New Orleans to burn 2 time outs, but the running game was going nowhere and it lead to a 3-and-out. I get that can't give up on the run entirely in those situations, but I wish they would at least mix in some high percentages passes to give them a chance of picking up 1st down. Before Akers got hurt, they had a good screen going for the first time in ages, but that's disappeared. Upgrading running back needs to be high on their list for the offseason, since the current group has been underwhelming. It would be great if Chandler or Nwangu could break out, but I'm not counting on it either.

@"Tyr" said:

@"mblack" said: KOC in the second half was more a mathematician. In his presser he mentioned the following 

• He owned up to the poor second half
• said they analysed the number of times each team will have the ball and where pretty good with slowing the game down
• he felt if they had one more score they would put the gane beyond reach (again without us turning the ball over) so that was what they were playing for 
• they wanted to protect the ball and steal a possession to make it even harder (and slow the game)
• So with that in mind, l running the ball made sense
• Well then Jamies happened which changed the dynamics and our offense could not get back in groove.
• Interestingly, the game would have been easier if we converted two more first downs. 

i think KOC is not going to go deep in his play book / game plan if he does not have to. The less he reveals the more he has to work with down the stretch. I dont think us being in these close one score games is all due to tough opponents. i think it has to do more with them counting possessions which sometimes bites them in the butt with turnovers and poor execution.  He is still growing in his role.

I get the idea of wanting to slow down the game and protect the lead, but they are not capable of closing out games on the ground right now. There was one sequence with around 4-minutes left where they handed the ball off three times in a row. It did get New Orleans to burn 2 time outs, but the running game was going nowhere and it lead to a 3-and-out. I get that can't give up on the run entirely in those situations, but I wish they would at least mix in some high percentages passes to give them a chance of picking up 1st down. Before Akers got hurt, they had a good screen going for the first time in ages, but that's disappeared. Upgrading running back needs to be high on their list for the offseason, since the current group has been underwhelming. It would be great if Chandler or Nwangu could break out, but I'm not counting on it either.