Misc. Thoughts: Bucs

KOC mentioned he felt better about the loss after viewing the tape. Said they were very close on a bunch of plays that would have changed the game. Take that for what you will....

@"VikingOracle" said: Well, that was sobering.  Bucs had a chip on their shoulder and the Vikings paid for taking them too lightly (yes, I agree the Vikes probably were looking towards the Eagles a bit too much).  Here are my miscellaneous thoughts:

• Mattison:  His running was serviceable at best but I was highly disappointed with his blocking.  His blitz pick-up was horrible throughout the game and I thought his blocking would be a strength.  Frankly, Chandler blocked better.  I don't know what is keeping Chandler from grabbing the starting job but that is becoming a low hanging fruit in my opinion.
• Interior Offensive Line:  I thought they played better in the second half -- nothing to write home about but after the first half I was pleasantly surprised in the second half.  I think the offensive line and coaching staff made some smart adjustments in the second half that improved the pass blocking.  That being said, the team was simply unprepared for the blitz heavy TB defense -- it is exactly how I felt we would look but didn't.
• Cousins:  Felt like he had the yips, especially in the second half.
• Pace and Blackmon:  In the 4th quarter both rookies made rookie mistakes on crucial 3rd downs.  Pace came off his cover responsibilities late allowing Baker to make it to the sticks (and why oh why didn't he lay Baker out with a huge hit?). Blackmon gave too much of a cushion allowing the Chris Godwin to gain 11 yards on a 3rd and 10.  Both of these are rookie mistakes partly attributable to them not factoring in the great speed at the pro level.  I am hopefully that they will both learn from these mistakes.  Pace, I believe lead the team in tackles; he does show up.
• Vikings Blitz Packages:  All preseason we were told about the confusion, etc. that the new blitz packages created.  Frankly, I didn't see it.  Seemed to me that the Bucs' blitz packages were more creative and effective.  I think only Pace and Hunter actually hit Baker during the game.  And then in the 4th quarter, the Vikes only rushed 3 a number of times.  Really seems like they went away from what worked in the first half.
• Run Defense:  I actually thought it was decent.
• End of Half Opponent Scoring: 2022 deja vu.
• Passing Game:  There is too much talent to be targeting Osborn 6 times, Mattison 4 times and Ham 3 times.

All good points. Mine? Run the ball and get a little balance With this iol, gotta get the ball out quick Cousins had the yips, they knocked the shit outta him in first half 

@"VikingOracle" said: Well, that was sobering.  Bucs had a chip on their shoulder and the Vikings paid for taking them too lightly (yes, I agree the Vikes probably were looking towards the Eagles a bit too much).  Here are my miscellaneous thoughts:

• Mattison:  His running was serviceable at best but I was highly disappointed with his blocking.  His blitz pick-up was horrible throughout the game and I thought his blocking would be a strength.  Frankly, Chandler blocked better.  I don't know what is keeping Chandler from grabbing the starting job but that is becoming a low hanging fruit in my opinion.
• Interior Offensive Line:  I thought they played better in the second half -- nothing to write home about but after the first half I was pleasantly surprised in the second half.  I think the offensive line and coaching staff made some smart adjustments in the second half that improved the pass blocking.  That being said, the team was simply unprepared for the blitz heavy TB defense -- it is exactly how I felt we would look but didn't.
• Cousins:  Felt like he had the yips, especially in the second half.
• Pace and Blackmon:  In the 4th quarter both rookies made rookie mistakes on crucial 3rd downs.  Pace came off his cover responsibilities late allowing Baker to make it to the sticks (and why oh why didn't he lay Baker out with a huge hit?). Blackmon gave too much of a cushion allowing the Chris Godwin to gain 11 yards on a 3rd and 10.  Both of these are rookie mistakes partly attributable to them not factoring in the great speed at the pro level.  I am hopefully that they will both learn from these mistakes.  Pace, I believe lead the team in tackles; he does show up.
• Vikings Blitz Packages:  All preseason we were told about the confusion, etc. that the new blitz packages created.  Frankly, I didn't see it.  Seemed to me that the Bucs' blitz packages were more creative and effective.  I think only Pace and Hunter actually hit Baker during the game.  And then in the 4th quarter, the Vikes only rushed 3 a number of times.  Really seems like they went away from what worked in the first half.
• Run Defense:  I actually thought it was decent.
• End of Half Opponent Scoring: 2022 deja vu.
• Passing Game:  There is too much talent to be targeting Osborn 6 times, Mattison 4 times and Ham 3 times.

Look forward to your misc thoughts each week.

As to Pace hitting Baker, I mentioned this yesterday.  Pace hit him like he was a QB.  He laid off and arm tackled, perhaps because he was afraid of a penalty if he laid him out.  Pace has a reputation for being a hitter, so it probably would have been brutal.  QBs should not be protected if they take off and run.  If they are near the sidelines, all they have to do is fake stepping out and everyone has to back off.  IMO if they don't give themselves up prior to being in a collision zone, they shouldn't be protected.  Or in other words, once they run, they are responsible for their own protection.

@"StickyBun" said: KOC mentioned he felt better about the loss after viewing the tape. Said they were very close on a bunch of plays that would have changed the game. Take that for what you will....

Les Frazier concurs.. 

@"greediron" said:

@"VikingOracle" said: Well, that was sobering.  Bucs had a chip on their shoulder and the Vikings paid for taking them too lightly (yes, I agree the Vikes probably were looking towards the Eagles a bit too much).  Here are my miscellaneous thoughts:

• Mattison:  His running was serviceable at best but I was highly disappointed with his blocking.  His blitz pick-up was horrible throughout the game and I thought his blocking would be a strength.  Frankly, Chandler blocked better.  I don't know what is keeping Chandler from grabbing the starting job but that is becoming a low hanging fruit in my opinion.
• Interior Offensive Line:  I thought they played better in the second half -- nothing to write home about but after the first half I was pleasantly surprised in the second half.  I think the offensive line and coaching staff made some smart adjustments in the second half that improved the pass blocking.  That being said, the team was simply unprepared for the blitz heavy TB defense -- it is exactly how I felt we would look but didn't.
• Cousins:  Felt like he had the yips, especially in the second half.
• Pace and Blackmon:  In the 4th quarter both rookies made rookie mistakes on crucial 3rd downs.  Pace came off his cover responsibilities late allowing Baker to make it to the sticks (and why oh why didn't he lay Baker out with a huge hit?). Blackmon gave too much of a cushion allowing the Chris Godwin to gain 11 yards on a 3rd and 10.  Both of these are rookie mistakes partly attributable to them not factoring in the great speed at the pro level.  I am hopefully that they will both learn from these mistakes.  Pace, I believe lead the team in tackles; he does show up.
• Vikings Blitz Packages:  All preseason we were told about the confusion, etc. that the new blitz packages created.  Frankly, I didn't see it.  Seemed to me that the Bucs' blitz packages were more creative and effective.  I think only Pace and Hunter actually hit Baker during the game.  And then in the 4th quarter, the Vikes only rushed 3 a number of times.  Really seems like they went away from what worked in the first half.
• Run Defense:  I actually thought it was decent.
• End of Half Opponent Scoring: 2022 deja vu.
• Passing Game:  There is too much talent to be targeting Osborn 6 times, Mattison 4 times and Ham 3 times.

Look forward to your misc thoughts each week.

As to Pace hitting Baker, I mentioned this yesterday.  Pace hit him like he was a QB.  He laid off and arm tackled, perhaps because he was afraid of a penalty if he laid him out.  Pace has a reputation for being a hitter, so it probably would have been brutal.  QBs should not be protected if they take off and run.  If they are near the sidelines, all they have to do is fake stepping out and everyone has to back off.  IMO if they don't give themselves up prior to being in a collision zone, they shouldn't be protected.  Or in other words, once they run, they are responsible for their own protection.

@"MaroonBells" said:

@"greediron" said:

@"VikingOracle" said: Well, that was sobering.  Bucs had a chip on their shoulder and the Vikings paid for taking them too lightly (yes, I agree the Vikes probably were looking towards the Eagles a bit too much).  Here are my miscellaneous thoughts:

• Mattison:  His running was serviceable at best but I was highly disappointed with his blocking.  His blitz pick-up was horrible throughout the game and I thought his blocking would be a strength.  Frankly, Chandler blocked better.  I don't know what is keeping Chandler from grabbing the starting job but that is becoming a low hanging fruit in my opinion.
• Interior Offensive Line:  I thought they played better in the second half -- nothing to write home about but after the first half I was pleasantly surprised in the second half.  I think the offensive line and coaching staff made some smart adjustments in the second half that improved the pass blocking.  That being said, the team was simply unprepared for the blitz heavy TB defense -- it is exactly how I felt we would look but didn't.
• Cousins:  Felt like he had the yips, especially in the second half.
• Pace and Blackmon:  In the 4th quarter both rookies made rookie mistakes on crucial 3rd downs.  Pace came off his cover responsibilities late allowing Baker to make it to the sticks (and why oh why didn't he lay Baker out with a huge hit?). Blackmon gave too much of a cushion allowing the Chris Godwin to gain 11 yards on a 3rd and 10.  Both of these are rookie mistakes partly attributable to them not factoring in the great speed at the pro level.  I am hopefully that they will both learn from these mistakes.  Pace, I believe lead the team in tackles; he does show up.
• Vikings Blitz Packages:  All preseason we were told about the confusion, etc. that the new blitz packages created.  Frankly, I didn't see it.  Seemed to me that the Bucs' blitz packages were more creative and effective.  I think only Pace and Hunter actually hit Baker during the game.  And then in the 4th quarter, the Vikes only rushed 3 a number of times.  Really seems like they went away from what worked in the first half.
• Run Defense:  I actually thought it was decent.
• End of Half Opponent Scoring: 2022 deja vu.
• Passing Game:  There is too much talent to be targeting Osborn 6 times, Mattison 4 times and Ham 3 times.

Look forward to your misc thoughts each week.

As to Pace hitting Baker, I mentioned this yesterday.  Pace hit him like he was a QB.  He laid off and arm tackled, perhaps because he was afraid of a penalty if he laid him out.  Pace has a reputation for being a hitter, so it probably would have been brutal.  QBs should not be protected if they take off and run.  If they are near the sidelines, all they have to do is fake stepping out and everyone has to back off.  IMO if they don't give themselves up prior to being in a collision zone, they shouldn't be protected.  Or in other words, once they run, they are responsible for their own protection.

That's exactly what I was thinking at the time. 

Agree with all of OP's points, especially the last one.
Nothing against CJ and KJ but targeting them-- especially KJ-- repeatedly when it's not working well at all was a bad decision by Kirk. Ham had one bad drop in an otherwise okay game by him but the Osborne connection just wasn't there for whatever reason. The chunk plays to JJ were amazing as usual but in conjunction with the above gripes, sprinkle in Hockenson's 8 catches for a pitiful 35 yards and you have an offense that's just not gonna sustain drives. Hockenson is making way too much money and is way too good to be used this way. Bizarre playcalling.

@"supafreak84" said:

@"StickyBun" said: KOC mentioned he felt better about the loss after viewing the tape. Said they were very close on a bunch of plays that would have changed the game. Take that for what you will....

Les Frazier concurs.. 

@"StickyBun" said:

@"supafreak84" said:

@"StickyBun" said: KOC mentioned he felt better about the loss after viewing the tape. Said they were very close on a bunch of plays that would have changed the game. Take that for what you will....

Les Frazier concurs.. 

Nah, KOC is a lot better than Les. But to your point: yeah, just dial it in. 

@"VikingOracle" said: Well, that was sobering.  Bucs had a chip on their shoulder and the Vikings paid for taking them too lightly (yes, I agree the Vikes probably were looking towards the Eagles a bit too much).  Here are my miscellaneous thoughts:

• Vikings Blitz Packages:  All preseason we were told about the confusion, etc. that the new blitz packages created.  Frankly, I didn't see it.  Seemed to me that the Bucs' blitz packages were more creative and effective.  I think only Pace and Hunter actually hit Baker during the game.  And then in the 4th quarter, the Vikes only rushed 3 a number of times.  Really seems like they went away from what worked in the first half.

To your point:Blitzing BakerBy PFF’s metrics, the Vikings blitzed the heck out of Baker Mayfield, chasing him with extra rushers on 21 of 38 drop-backs. But the journeyman quarterback handled it pretty well. He was not sacked and completed 11-of-19 passes for 114 yards and scrambled twice. Mayfield only averaged 3.9 yards per attempt when he wasn’t blitzed. In total, the Vikings did not pressure him often, only nine times during the entire game. Part of the reason for his relative success was getting the ball out quickly on short passes. When blitzed Mayfield threw the ball in 2.37 seconds and averaged only 8.3 yards downfield per throw. In the second half in particular it seemed that the Bucs made sound adjustments after sputtering against Brian Flores’s defense badly in the first half. It will be worth watching to see how the Eagles counter the aggressiveness from Flores on Thursday. Jalen Hurts saw a lot of pressure from Bill Belichick, getting blitzed on 42% of drop-backs and only gained 4.4 yards per attempt on those rushes.

@"pattersaur" said:

Agree with all of OP's points, especially the last one. Nothing against CJ and KJ but targeting them-- especially KJ-- repeatedly when it's not working well at all was a bad decision by Kirk. Ham had one bad drop in an otherwise okay game by him but the Osborne connection just wasn't there for whatever reason. The chunk plays to JJ were amazing as usual but in conjunction with the above gripes, sprinkle in Hockenson's 8 catches for a pitiful 35 yards and you have an offense that's just not gonna sustain drives. Hockenson is making way too much money and is way too good to be used this way. Bizarre playcalling.

I thunk the while point, and a lot of people argued offaeason about it, but KJ is not a #2 WR.  He’s fine in situations, but he doesnt have the ball skills or wiggle of a starting WR. Teams will continue to shadow JJ and TJ if we dont get our running game going. 

@"Bullazin" said:

@"pattersaur" said:

Agree with all of OP's points, especially the last one. Nothing against CJ and KJ but targeting them-- especially KJ-- repeatedly when it's not working well at all was a bad decision by Kirk. Ham had one bad drop in an otherwise okay game by him but the Osborne connection just wasn't there for whatever reason. The chunk plays to JJ were amazing as usual but in conjunction with the above gripes, sprinkle in Hockenson's 8 catches for a pitiful 35 yards and you have an offense that's just not gonna sustain drives. Hockenson is making way too much money and is way too good to be used this way. Bizarre playcalling.

Teams will continue to shadow JJ and TJ if we dont get our running game going. 

Our problem isn’t a skill position problem.  KJ is not in the top 5 of problems we have on
offense.  We could have 3 #1 WRs and our
offense would still exhibit the same problems. 
We don’t commit to the run.  We
can’t run the ball when we need to.  We
can’t build the play action off that non-existent run game.  Teams can just tee off on Cousins, and the blocking
schemes/players routinely let free rushers get to Cousins.  And Cousins is a more algorithmic type of QB
that you really need to have the right scheme planned for the game.  If the defense is sending us stuff we didn’t
plan for, and the answer is outside the gameplan, it’s just not going to
happen.

I think ultimately, outside of us being in a rebuilding year
and not having enough talent, we just got outcoached.  The bucs were prepared for what we were going
to do, and made adjustments, and we didn’t have anything to counter their adjustments
successfully.  Like we don’t have a short
quick passing game that we can lean on. 
It doesn’t appear that we have hot routes to exploit blitzes.  It’s like every play is a long developing
pass play where we are playing the game of who breaks first, our OLine or their
secondary.

   Now that Mayfield has his victory against the Purple, he can return to mediocrity & start turning the ball over, as I’m certain he will…!  ;) :s  

@"supafreak84" said:

@"Bullazin" said:

@"pattersaur" said:

Agree with all of OP's points, especially the last one. Nothing against CJ and KJ but targeting them-- especially KJ-- repeatedly when it's not working well at all was a bad decision by Kirk. Ham had one bad drop in an otherwise okay game by him but the Osborne connection just wasn't there for whatever reason. The chunk plays to JJ were amazing as usual but in conjunction with the above gripes, sprinkle in Hockenson's 8 catches for a pitiful 35 yards and you have an offense that's just not gonna sustain drives. Hockenson is making way too much money and is way too good to be used this way. Bizarre playcalling.

Teams will continue to shadow JJ and TJ if we dont get our running game going. 

Well that was the big selling point in giving Oliver 21 million dollars, right? Double TE, power running game with Mattison to complement our passing game. Instead we went out in our first game against a mediocre opponent and passed the ball 73% of the time.