Ed F#$%ing Ingram

@"Knucklehead" said:

@"greediron" said:

@"JR44" said:

@"greediron" said: Have you ever played guard?  Pulling entails getting a large body turned and moving quickly and that usually involves the arms.  Again, why is Kirk still there?  No work in the preseason and a new center are the likely culprits.

From rewatching it, it looks like Kirk is just getting the ball, don't think he could have done anything differently, maybe the center did not get the snap up to him quick enough.  Definitely could be not enough work together. I understand having to get out quickly, but do not think the arm needs to be that far out from the body.

I think it is a timing thing.  Schlotmann might not have been on time, or the placement was different and slowed Kirk down.

As to the arm, that is one of the ways a big man gets his body turned and gets moving, I wasn't any great coach and it was just Jr. Tackle, but that is how I taught my guards to get out of the stance and turned, to rip that elbow back and thereby turning the shoulders.

FWIW, on the broadcast Matt Ryan criticized Kirko's ball placement on that play.

@"StickyBun" said:

@"Knucklehead" said:

@"greediron" said:

@"JR44" said:

@"greediron" said: Have you ever played guard?  Pulling entails getting a large body turned and moving quickly and that usually involves the arms.  Again, why is Kirk still there?  No work in the preseason and a new center are the likely culprits.

From rewatching it, it looks like Kirk is just getting the ball, don't think he could have done anything differently, maybe the center did not get the snap up to him quick enough.  Definitely could be not enough work together. I understand having to get out quickly, but do not think the arm needs to be that far out from the body.

I think it is a timing thing.  Schlotmann might not have been on time, or the placement was different and slowed Kirk down.

As to the arm, that is one of the ways a big man gets his body turned and gets moving, I wasn't any great coach and it was just Jr. Tackle, but that is how I taught my guards to get out of the stance and turned, to rip that elbow back and thereby turning the shoulders.

FWIW, on the broadcast Matt Ryan criticized Kirko's ball placement on that play.

Yep, but at the same time I get why when Kirko said: I threw it a touch behind because the safety was coming. But then I would retort the window is too tight for that throw with 2 defenders right at the goal line converging. I'd say a sub optimal decision by Kirk....BUT...KJ has too fight harder than that for the ball.

@"JimmyinSD" said: the matt ryan comment above was about the ingram strip, Kirk shouldnt have had the ball there to be stripped,  it should have been pulled up to his body.

Looks like an undrafted FA that was picked in the 2nd round to me. 

@"JR44" said:

@"JimmyinSD" said: the matt ryan comment above was about the ingram strip, Kirk shouldnt have had the ball there to be stripped,  it should have been pulled up to his body.

First of all Matt Ryan is the last person to comment on QB miscues, secondly David Copperfield was not going go get that ball to his body, Cousin was just taking the snap when the ball was knocked out, Ryan's comment makes no sense, it isn't like Cousins was just sitting there in suspended motion.  Either the center did not get the ball out quick enough or Ingram was out of his stance early.  

@"JimmyinSD" said:

@"StickyBun" said:

@"Knucklehead" said:

@"greediron" said:

@"JR44" said:

@"greediron" said: Have you ever played guard?  Pulling entails getting a large body turned and moving quickly and that usually involves the arms.  Again, why is Kirk still there?  No work in the preseason and a new center are the likely culprits.

From rewatching it, it looks like Kirk is just getting the ball, don't think he could have done anything differently, maybe the center did not get the snap up to him quick enough.  Definitely could be not enough work together. I understand having to get out quickly, but do not think the arm needs to be that far out from the body.

I think it is a timing thing.  Schlotmann might not have been on time, or the placement was different and slowed Kirk down.

As to the arm, that is one of the ways a big man gets his body turned and gets moving, I wasn't any great coach and it was just Jr. Tackle, but that is how I taught my guards to get out of the stance and turned, to rip that elbow back and thereby turning the shoulders.

FWIW, on the broadcast Matt Ryan criticized Kirko's ball placement on that play.

Yep, but at the same time I get why when Kirko said: I threw it a touch behind because the safety was coming. But then I would retort the window is too tight for that throw with 2 defenders right at the goal line converging. I'd say a sub optimal decision by Kirk....BUT...KJ has too fight harder than that for the ball.

KJs momentum was taking him away from the defender and the ball,  not a lot he could have done there IMO.  Kirk led the defender to the spot by locking on KJ from the snap and then put the ball where the defender had the best position to make the play.  That ball should have never been thrown in that situation.

the matt ryan comment above was about the ingram strip, Kirk shouldnt have had the ball there to be stripped,  it should have been pulled up to his body.

@"JimmyinSD" said:

@"StickyBun" said:

KJs momentum was taking him away from the defender and the ball,  not a lot he could have done there IMO.  Kirk led the defender to the spot by locking on KJ from the snap and then put the ball where the defender had the best position to make the play.  That ball should have never been thrown in that situation.

the matt ryan comment above was about the ingram strip, Kirk shouldnt have had the ball there to be stripped,  it should have been pulled up to his body.

As for Ingrams, I hate to say it, but the Vikes are leaning into the definition of insane: “Insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results.”

@"VikingOracle" said: As for Ingrams, I hate to say it, but the Vikes are leaning into the definition of insane: “Insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results.”

Think I may have found part of the problem: “I thought I played pretty well. I had some slight mistakes but other than that I liked my performance,” Ingram said in a locker room interview.
So maybe our coaches just need to tell him he sucks, yeah that’s the ticket…!  ;) :s  

@"Kentis" said: Think I may have found part of the problem: “I thought I played pretty well. I had some slight mistakes but other than that I liked my performance,” Ingram said in a locker room interview. So maybe our coaches just need to tell him he sucks, yeah that’s the ticket…!  ;) :s  

@"Kentis" said: Think I may have found part of the problem: “I thought I played pretty well. I had some slight mistakes but other than that I liked my performance,” Ingram said in a locker room interview. So maybe our coaches just need to tell him he sucks, yeah that’s the ticket…!  ;) :s  

Either way, this was an odd thing to say. It suggests a cluelessness in the locker room that nearly matches his cluelessness on the field. No matter how you think you performed, you have to be humble and say you need to play better. It's PR 101 and he really should know better. 

The Vikings offensive line allowed five quarterback hits and 12 pressures. Ingram, coming off a rookie year where he allowed the most pressures in the league, posted a 40.3 Pro Football Focus (PFF) pass-blocking grade that ranked 58th among guards who played in Week 1.
He allowed a sack, a quarterback hit and two hurries for a team-high four pressures total. He also played a hand  — quite literally – in one of the Vikings’ fumbles where he clubbed the ball out of Cousins’ hands during the snap.
Ingram admitted he was frustrated by the play he called a “freak accident.” Kevin O’Connell concurred with the second-year guard.

@"MaroonBells" said:

@"Kentis" said: Think I may have found part of the problem: “I thought I played pretty well. I had some slight mistakes but other than that I liked my performance,” Ingram said in a locker room interview. So maybe our coaches just need to tell him he sucks, yeah that’s the ticket…!  ;) :s  

I don't hold the fumble against him. And he played OK in a majority of snaps. And while he got physically beaten several times last year, I didn't see that against Tampa. But here's the problem. He still seems utterly clueless on stunts. Almost always late to see it. 

Either way, this was an odd thing to say. It suggests a cluelessness in the locker room that nearly matches his cluelessness on the field. No matter how you think you performed, you have to be humble and say you need to play better. It's PR 101 and he really should know better. 

@"JimmyinSD" said:

@"MaroonBells" said:

@"Kentis" said: Think I may have found part of the problem: “I thought I played pretty well. I had some slight mistakes but other than that I liked my performance,” Ingram said in a locker room interview. So maybe our coaches just need to tell him he sucks, yeah that’s the ticket…!  ;) :s  

I don't hold the fumble against him. And he played OK in a majority of snaps. And while he got physically beaten several times last year, I didn't see that against Tampa. But here's the problem. He still seems utterly clueless on stunts. Almost always late to see it. 

Either way, this was an odd thing to say. It suggests a cluelessness in the locker room that nearly matches his cluelessness on the field. No matter how you think you performed, you have to be humble and say you need to play better. It's PR 101 and he really should know better. 

its almost like our interior OL is being coached to heavy to double team block,  they always follow their blocker to the next man and stick with him,  allowing a huge lane for a stunting lineman or delayed blitzer to come running through untouched at kirk.  this happens way to often to not be part of the way they are being coached.  they need to learn to hand off that rusher and get back into a lane sooner,  instead of looking for that  double team kill shot.

@"MaroonBells" said:

@"JimmyinSD" said:

@"MaroonBells" said:

@"Kentis" said: Think I may have found part of the problem: “I thought I played pretty well. I had some slight mistakes but other than that I liked my performance,” Ingram said in a locker room interview. So maybe our coaches just need to tell him he sucks, yeah that’s the ticket…!  ;) :s  

I don't hold the fumble against him. And he played OK in a majority of snaps. And while he got physically beaten several times last year, I didn't see that against Tampa. But here's the problem. He still seems utterly clueless on stunts. Almost always late to see it. 

Either way, this was an odd thing to say. It suggests a cluelessness in the locker room that nearly matches his cluelessness on the field. No matter how you think you performed, you have to be humble and say you need to play better. It's PR 101 and he really should know better. 

its almost like our interior OL is being coached to heavy to double team block,  they always follow their blocker to the next man and stick with him,  allowing a huge lane for a stunting lineman or delayed blitzer to come running through untouched at kirk.  this happens way to often to not be part of the way they are being coached.  they need to learn to hand off that rusher and get back into a lane sooner,  instead of looking for that  double team kill shot.

KOC mentioned some new protection schemes. You could really see it in how they flowed to one side or another, bunching up most of the pass rush. But there was always some free runner either looping around the stack or coming in from the side. 

I think this protection scheme has a chance of working better against the Eagles, since they rarely blitz. Now, obviously I'm not saying they will handle the NFL's best Dl. Far from it. It's just going to be different I think.

Unless of course the Eagles take a page from Tampa's game plan and blitz the shit out of us. Either way, it could be a long night.

@"minny65" said:

@"Greylock" said:

@"minny65" said:

@"Greylock" said: At this point Ingram does not look like a starting caliber guard, not to say he wont develop into one but at this point is Risner really the answer?  If he is why hasn't he been signed?  Money, scheme fit, attitude I mean his former offensive line coaches from the Broncos are now employed by the Vikings yet he visited and left without a contract.  Maybe that should be a warning sign he is not worth what he may be asking for.  Oh and if he does sign and has a crappy game the Kwesi haters will be on here full force saying what a shitty signing he was.

A crappy game based on Ingram's crappy string of games or a crappy game based on an average starting Guard?  So you prefer to just sit and watch crappiness and not address a glaring weakness because another guy might also have a crappy game or two?  Risner's worst PFF grades are better than Ingrams best especially as a pass blocker which is where our interior is getting Kirk crushed and eventually hurt.  

So why hasn't he been signed by any team in the entire league?  If he is the answer to a porous line you think he would be on speed dial, yet his former coaches from the Broncos have even passed on him.  Makes you wonder maybe he isn't worth what ever he is asking for.

IDK what the other bottom Guards teams are thinking - I do know that Ingram continues to be a bottom of the heap Guard and Risner is an huge upgrade in pass protection specifically.  Didn't he have some words with one of the Broncos coaches in terms of Wilson?  Maybe that has something to do with it..again IDK.  I also don't know if he is asking for too much or too long of a contract.  But all the unknowns and I don't want us to just assume things like Ingram is going to improve or that Risner is not worth another phone call/looksee.