Don't want to overreact after one week, but.....

@"StickyBun" said: .....here's what concerned me:

• They didn't play well and turned the ball over, yet could have easily won the game. But didn't. Some of the offensive play calls really had me shaking my head.
• Our RBs lack explosiveness. There were some big holes that Cook would have exploited for major yards and watching Mattison/Chandler in comparison was like watching someone dragging a cement block behind them. Its just something new to get used to. The Mattison TD was excellent, however. 
• Kirk continues to get hit way too often. And hard. I saw some grumpy sideline exchanges between KOC and Cousins.
• I thought Flores would be the kind of coordinator that rarely, if ever, would only rush 3. Saw that way too often with bad results. 
• The D was better, for sure, but lacked a pass rush when it was really needed. Maybe that will improve with Davenport in there. 
• Ingram continues to make mental mistakes, which I find more concerning that his getting handled. 
• Bradbury. 

I'll stop there and chill. Just a very disappointing loss in a game they needed and should have won. The next 3 games are tough. 

Too many mistakes. Bad teams will beat good teams if they simply win the turnover battle. And the Bucs did. Lack of precision and focus maybe? I don't know. It was a game the Vikings dominated early on and instead of burying them, they let them hang and eventually prevail. 

Some surprises. Asamoah I think started but was soon replaced by Pace. Injury or performance related? Run defense was impressive. Rachaad White is a good back who was held to 39 yards on 17 carries. I thought our corners were solid for the most part, but this was Baker Mayfield. Bynum flashed. Didn't really notice Harry, which is a bit of a surprise. Vea didn't dominate the way I've seen him do in the past. Bucs appeared to get most of their pressure via blitz.

We'll get a much better idea of how much the defense has improved against the Eagles. 

Leber sums it up....

Stumbled out of the blocks in 2023.
Quick thoughts on the 20-17 loss to the Bucs. #Vikings #Skol pic.twitter.com/LmHKLoWx7o

— Ben Leber (@nacholeber) September 10, 2023

@"MaroonBells" said: Leber sums it up....

Stumbled out of the blocks in 2023.
Quick thoughts on the 20-17 loss to the Bucs. #Vikings #Skol pic.twitter.com/LmHKLoWx7o

— Ben Leber (@nacholeber) September 10, 2023

I mean, its all well and fine that they 'stumbled out of the blocks'.....but you look at the next 3 games and where is the W coming from after that showing? Even after the stumbling and bumbling, they were in position to still take control of the game. We now are starting the backup center. How is Darrisaw doing? Did Ingram make the leap some were expecting? Is the run game going to produce? The D is still a question mark.

If you want to lay this on the turnovers, sure...go ahead. And I agree that they were very hurtful to the cause. But lets not pretend there isn't more to be concerned about potentially. Game 2 on the road against a good opponent....let's watch and see.

@"StickyBun" said: .....here's what concerned me:

• They didn't play well and turned the ball over, yet could have easily won the game. But didn't. Some of the offensive play calls really had me shaking my head.
• Our RBs lack explosiveness. There were some big holes early that Cook would have exploited for major yards and watching Mattison/Chandler in comparison was like watching someone dragging a cement block behind them. Its just something new to get used to. The Mattison TD was excellent, however. Run game is a concern.
• Kirk continues to get hit way too often. And hard. I saw some grumpy sideline exchanges between KOC and Cousins.
• I thought Flores would be the kind of coordinator that rarely, if ever, would only rush 3. Saw that way too often with bad results. 
• The D was better, for sure, but lacked a pass rush when it was really needed. Maybe that will improve with Davenport in there. 
• Ingram continues to make mental mistakes, which I find more concerning that his getting handled. 
• Bradbury. 

I'll stop there and chill. Just a very disappointing loss in a game they needed and should have won. The next 3 games are tough. 

On the running game, everything that Mattison got was with his second and third efforts. Just like last year with Cook, he was getting first contact behind the line of scrimmage. I think it would be hard for any back to look explosive when you don't even have a chance to get up to speed before hitting the line. Having said that, I don't think his running style suits the OLine personnel we have. Bringing in Oliver helps the perimeter, but the lack of size and talent we have on the interior Oline will make things difficult for Mattison to be successful IMO. He is a  power runner who needs some heavy personnel in the middle to create some space and we just don't have the size or talent to do it. As the season goes on, I think you will see Chandler and Gaskin continue to steal carries away from Mattison as KOC is forced to abandon the 12 Personnel Scheme he wants to run. We are way more effective running 3 WR sets and pushing the ball downfield in the passing game. That is where our success came from yesterday. Dinking and Dunking to Hockenson at or behind the line of scrimmage yesterday was baffling as was a lot of KOC's play calls and game planning against the speedy playmakers the Bucs have on D. 

@"MaroonBells" said: Leber sums it up....

Stumbled out of the blocks in 2023.
Quick thoughts on the 20-17 loss to the Bucs. #Vikings #Skol pic.twitter.com/LmHKLoWx7o

— Ben Leber (@nacholeber) September 10, 2023

I don't agree with his take that the OLine did a good job of not allowing penetration. They were constantly getting blown up. 

I've already accepted the fact that the Vikings weren't going to have a very good season and I'll just sit back and watch the turmoil roll on by until next year's free agency and draft.  Then, I'll set higher expectations and hope for the team...but not this year by a long shot.  They just don't have the horses on both sides of the offensive or defensive lines.  Until that's fixed, be prepared for the same old thing.

@"TBro" said:

@"MaroonBells" said: Leber sums it up....

Stumbled out of the blocks in 2023.
Quick thoughts on the 20-17 loss to the Bucs. #Vikings #Skol pic.twitter.com/LmHKLoWx7o

— Ben Leber (@nacholeber) September 10, 2023

I don't agree with his take that the OLine did a good job of not allowing penetration. They were constantly getting blown up. 

The turnovers were frustrating since they felt so self-inflicted but honestly we looked better in the first half, even with 3 TOs, than the second. To me that’s what’s most concerning.

Team looked overall very flat in the second which isn’t what you love to see in a winnable game and a home opener.

It’s funny going from Zimmer who leaned too heavily on the run to KO who seems to actively hate run plays.

Hoping for a more balanced offense and more balanced halves on Thursday. 

i watched Harrison Phillips several plays and from the small sample size i thought he did play really well.  Blunted the blocker and shed the block to make the tackle of the running back numerous times.
The saying “stout at the point of attack” would describe his play.  

I think the defense did about as well as you could hope for
(outside the delusional people who thought adding Flores was going to transform
a talent-deficient defense).

This game is on the offense. 
The league average points per game in 2022 was 21.9.  Our defense held their offense to below
average, and our offense failed to be above average.  This is a team that has all the talent on the
offensive side of the ball.  They are
supposed to be good.  They weren’t.  End of story.

I do think there’s some room for improvement out of the
defense as we go along, but it’s the first game of the Flores era and half the
defense is inexperienced in any scheme. 
I just don’t think you could reasonably expect more from them with the
talent that they have on that side.

One thing I’m not seeing mentioned nearly enough is that it’s
the first week of the season.  There’s no
tape on the other teams schemes this season. 
It’s not unlikely to have scheme/playcalling related issues.

@"pattersaur" said: The turnovers were frustrating since they felt so self-inflicted but honestly we looked better in the first half, even with 3 TOs, than the second. To me that’s what’s most concerning.

Team looked overall very flat in the second which isn’t what you love to see in a winnable game and a home opener.

It’s funny going from Zimmer who leaned too heavily on the run to KO who seems to actively hate run plays.

Hoping for a more balanced offense and more balanced halves on Thursday. 

Us coming out flat during the second halves is the part that
I find most confusing, especially since it was one of our big problems last
year, and I feel like KOC should be more of a motivator type of guy and this
shouldn’t be an issue.

The turnovers and lack of running game lost the game.  I also thought Kirk played a fairly poor game.  He missed on several throws including a wide open KJO in the end zone when he instead threw it incomplete to a covered Mattison.  I thought Kirk was going to start punching himself in the face when he threw the tantrum after his horrible pick.  He's a strange dude.

Disappointing performance by the coaches and offense yesterday.  Defense looked improved over last year, it will improve throughout the year.

• 3 TO to a lesser team keeps a game close.  Tampa has studs on that team,
• Defense looked better but needed to make adjustments, that's going to be tough with younger guys to change that quickly on the fly.  I am confident the defense will keep us in games to win many
• Corners played very well, there is some optimism for the d-backfield.  
• The CINE pick is looking like a bust, the guy can't get on the field.
• Not going to the best playmaker in the game in the second half is CRIMINAL by coach and QB.  Wasn't impressed with KOC's playcalling last year, wasn't impressed yesterday.
• Immobile QB's in the NFL in 2023 are limiting.  Baker Mayfield sucks but his mobility was a game changer just yesterday.  2017 was successful based on Case's legs.
• QB is still too analytical, just because on paper its the right call doesn't mean its where you should throw the ball (we saw this with two failed 3rd downs with a WIDE OPEN JEFFERSON)
• But lastly, you have built a team with a STATUE of a QB and the weakest center of the OL in football.  The fastest line to the QB is our weakest part of the roster.  That is a FAILURE of leadership, end of story.  You will not be able to save this season with this problem.  Every good team has a strong interior DL, every playoff contender has a beast or two on the interior DL.  Set up for failure.

If Kirk doesn't like the fact that we have young and cheap guys playing guard, TAKE LESS MONEY.   You can't have a GREAT TE, GREAT WR, GREAT pair of tackles, a high paid QB AND a high paid interior OL.   But he won't because he's a mercenary who has only been about him in the end.  

We should have moved on when we could get something, at the end of this year they will want to finally move on and we will get nothing out of it.

Some positives and negatives from my perspective:

Positives
Flores defense was fun to watch, especially in the first half
Corners played well
Hunter made plays despite being consistently doubled on passing plays
Some young guys showed flashes -- should get better with more experience
JJ was JJ, despite all the attention he garnered.  The TD to Addison was a result of attention to JJ
Mattison's TD was awesome -- great balance and effort

Concerns
Cousins looked rusty in his decision making and early throws.  He missed the blitz that got him strip-sacked
KOC called a bad game
Running game was uninspiring -- surprised Chandler did not get more chances
Interior O Line looked was shaky.  Ingraham knocking the ball out of Cousins' hands -- really???
Flores in the second half -- tried to change things up when the aggressive approach was working.  Dropped 8 into coverage a few times -- seeing a lost Pat Jones in coverage on the goal line -- really?
Josh Mettellus -- flat footed lack of awareness cost a TD.  How bad must Cine be that he cant get on the field over Mettellus and a below average Cam Bynum?
Where was Harrison Smith?  He miss-timed/gave away blitzes on several occasions.  Was largely a non-factor in the game
Lack of big plays/turnovers.  Twice we had the opportunity to bury Mayfield and let him escape -- got to finish when you get home

No reason to expect us to beat Philly on the road in prime time, but I will say that they did not look like world beaters against a below average Patriots team yesterday.  

There are teams that look incredible today, and they’ll miss playoffs.

Teams that are garbage, and will have a home playoff game.

Week 1 is a liar. Always has been. pic.twitter.com/wwcmREmWkq

— Kyle Brandt (@KyleBrandt) September 10, 2023

With the turnovers, the miscues, the offsides on the field goal try by Tampa how much of this could be related to the starters getting no action in the preseason.  I know you want to minimize injuries in a meaningless game but this game was the first time for the starters as a unit and it certainly showed. 

On the offsides on the FG, it seemed that Jay Ward had said to KOC he looked over to check with the side judge and he gave him the thumbs up.  He didn't look like he lined up in the neutral zone to me.

@"pattersaur" said: The turnovers were frustrating since they felt so self-inflicted but honestly we looked better in the first half, even with 3 TOs, than the second. To me that’s what’s most concerning.

Team looked overall very flat in the second which isn’t what you love to see in a winnable game and a home opener.

It’s funny going from Zimmer who leaned too heavily on the run to KO who seems to actively hate run plays.

Hoping for a more balanced offense and more balanced halves on Thursday. 

This was my big question going into the season. Lots of talk about the run game, but when the lights come on, will it happen?  It didn't last year, even in games when it was working.  With that type of game, we should have seen better results from the run game.  Granted, it is a good D-line, but JJ was killing it in the first half.

@"Greylock" said: With the turnovers, the miscues, the offsides on the field goal try by Tampa how much of this could be related to the starters getting no action in the preseason.  I know you want to minimize injuries in a meaningless game but this game was the first time for the starters as a unit and it certainly showed. 

That thought entered my mind as well.

@"greediron" said:

@"Greylock" said: With the turnovers, the miscues, the offsides on the field goal try by Tampa how much of this could be related to the starters getting no action in the preseason.  I know you want to minimize injuries in a meaningless game but this game was the first time for the starters as a unit and it certainly showed. 

That thought entered my mind as well.