Forum The Longship Mr Greenway is not holding back...

Mr Greenway is not holding back...

purplefaithful
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Hurry-up Vikings, we ain't getting any younger! 

#1 · Sep 3, 10:28 PM
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Greenway spent 10 seasons with the Vikings, making two Pro Bowls along the way and being named second-team All-Pro for his work in the 2012 season. But he obviously never was in love with the way the defense was run throughout his first seven seasons by Frazier, who ascended from defensive coordinator to head coach during that span.
Frazier moved on in 2014 and eventually landed with the Bills as defensive coordinator in 2017. He walked away from his job after a devastating playoff loss to Cincinnati in January and intends to take just one season off before returning to coaching, perhaps with another team.Though Frazier played for perhaps the most aggressive defense in football's modern era, Buddy Ryan's famed "46," his coaching philosophy was shaped more by Tony Dungy, who is widely recognized for refining the Cover 2 concept, a relatively soft, two-deep zone coverage scheme with help from a fast retreating middle linebacker on pass plays. It allows for underneath openings but makes it extremely difficult to be beaten over the top.

Hard to rationalize Greenway's hard feelings on this one. 
Frazier and head coach Sean McDermott crafted one of the NFL's finest defenses over the past six years. Last season, the Bills allowed the fewest yards and the second fewest points in the league. In 2021, they were first in both categories.
On the other hand, the defense was paralyzed by complete dysfunction during the final 13 seconds of regulation against the Kansas City Chiefs in their 2021-22 divisional round playoff matchup. The Chiefs gained 44 yards in two plays before kicking a game-tying field goal as time expired, then won in overtime by driving for a touchdown with equal ease on the first possession.
Whatever the case, McDermott will call the plays on defense this season. He didn't even hire a coordinator to replace Frazier.
Perhaps those 13 seconds will ultimately define both coaches, especially McDermott, if the Bills can't at least make it to the Super Bowl under his reign.
But nothing can take away Frazier's tremendous success as a coordinator in the NFL.
https://www.si.com/nfl/bills/news/buffalo-bills-leslie-frazier-defensive-coordinator-chad-greenway-minnesota-vikings

#2 · Sep 3, 10:30 PM
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I hope so but we were sold the same bill of goods last season about how great this attacking defense was supposed to be. I also worry about holding up on the back end because blitzing comes at a price. It's why I'd rather just have four kick ass down lineman that can win and play coverage on the back end. A great front four masks a lot of deficiencies in coverage and right now our ability to cover is anybody guess 

#3 · Sep 3, 11:40 PM
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Surprised Greenway would make such a non-classy statement, he can give his view of the current defense without taking a cheap shot at Frazier for something that happened years ago.  Ironically Frazier is one of the most professional and classy guys to coach in the NFL, Chad should take note as he comes off like a total loser who has been holding onto a grudge for years.  

#4 · Sep 4, 2:02 AM
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@"supafreak84" said: I hope so but we were sold the same bill of goods last season about how great this attacking defense was supposed to be. I also worry about holding up on the back end because blitzing comes at a price. It's why I'd rather just have four kick ass down lineman that can win and play coverage on the back end. A great front four masks a lot of deficiencies in coverage and right now our ability to cover is anybody guess 
I don't remember anyone selling Donatell's defense as "attacking." We heard it had the "illusion of complexity." We heard about all the "zone matching," and the mixes of odd and even fronts and his "bend but don't break" philosophy. So it would be pretty odd for anyone to label it as "attacking." 

We don't know if Flores will get better results, but in terms of philosophy, Flores and Donatell are complete opposites. 

#5 · Sep 4, 2:03 AM
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@"MaroonBells" said:
@"supafreak84" said: I hope so but we were sold the same bill of goods last season about how great this attacking defense was supposed to be. I also worry about holding up on the back end because blitzing comes at a price. It's why I'd rather just have four kick ass down lineman that can win and play coverage on the back end. A great front four masks a lot of deficiencies in coverage and right now our ability to cover is anybody guess 
I don't remember anyone selling Donatell's defense as "attacking." We heard it had the "illusion of complexity." We heard about all the "zone matching," and the mixes of odd and even fronts and his "bend but don't break" philosophy. So it would be pretty odd for anyone to label it as "attacking." 

We don't know if Flores will get better results, but in terms of philosophy, Flores and Donatell are complete opposites. 



It was sold as a multi-front, turnover causing machine due to the schemes complexity. I took that as attacking, but I was obviously mistaken..

#6 · Sep 4, 5:32 AM
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@"supafreak84" said:
@"MaroonBells" said:
@"supafreak84" said: I hope so but we were sold the same bill of goods last season about how great this attacking defense was supposed to be. I also worry about holding up on the back end because blitzing comes at a price. It's why I'd rather just have four kick ass down lineman that can win and play coverage on the back end. A great front four masks a lot of deficiencies in coverage and right now our ability to cover is anybody guess 
I don't remember anyone selling Donatell's defense as "attacking." We heard it had the "illusion of complexity." We heard about all the "zone matching," and the mixes of odd and even fronts and his "bend but don't break" philosophy. So it would be pretty odd for anyone to label it as "attacking." 

We don't know if Flores will get better results, but in terms of philosophy, Flores and Donatell are complete opposites. 



It was sold as a multi-front, turnover causing machine due to the schemes complexity. I took that as attacking, but I was obviously mistaken..


Well, to be fair, they did generate a lot of turnovers...or at least for a good part of the year. It came apart the last few weeks of the year IIRC.

#7 · Sep 4, 11:24 AM
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@"JR44" said: Surprised Greenway would make such a non-classy statement, he can give his view of the current defense without taking a cheap shot at Frazier for something that happened years ago.  Ironically Frazier is one of the most professional and classy guys to coach in the NFL, Chad should take note as he comes off like a total loser who has been holding onto a grudge for years.  


Truth hurts.  He didn’t say Frazier was an ahole or anything.  Just that his version of defense allows you to get dink and dunked to death. 

#8 · Sep 4, 11:43 AM
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@"AGRforever" said:
@"JR44" said: Surprised Greenway would make such a non-classy statement, he can give his view of the current defense without taking a cheap shot at Frazier for something that happened years ago.  Ironically Frazier is one of the most professional and classy guys to coach in the NFL, Chad should take note as he comes off like a total loser who has been holding onto a grudge for years.  


Truth hurts.  He didn’t say Frazier was an ahole or anything.  Just that his version of defense allows you to get dink and dunked to death. 


Agreed. Why is this so 'disrespectful'?? I swear, there isn't anything that can't be manufactured outrage on the Internet.

#9 · Sep 4, 11:46 AM
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Frazier is a decent DC.  When he was HC here he was over his skis.  Just like Mike Zimmer-very good DC, totally unsuited to the HC job.  KOC might be the first real HC we've had in a long while, time will tell.

#10 · Sep 4, 11:51 AM
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@"AGRforever" said:
@"JR44" said: Surprised Greenway would make such a non-classy statement, he can give his view of the current defense without taking a cheap shot at Frazier for something that happened years ago.  Ironically Frazier is one of the most professional and classy guys to coach in the NFL, Chad should take note as he comes off like a total loser who has been holding onto a grudge for years.  


Truth hurts.  He didn’t say Frazier was an ahole or anything.  Just that his version of defense allows you to get dink and dunked to death. 


I don't think there's one right way to play defense. If there were, everyone would be doing the same thing. The attackers generate big plays and are often victimized by their aggressiveness as well. The sit backers force offenses to play mistake free but they're on the field a lot. 

What will we get from Flores? Only one thing I know for certain is that we'll be fun to watch. A series of oh yeahs and oh fucks. I do like that certain defensive players seems to be well suited to Flores style. Pace, Asamoah, Cine, Harry and Murphy in particular. 

#11 · Sep 4, 12:03 PM
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@"MaroonBells" said:
@"AGRforever" said:
@"JR44" said: Surprised Greenway would make such a non-classy statement, he can give his view of the current defense without taking a cheap shot at Frazier for something that happened years ago.  Ironically Frazier is one of the most professional and classy guys to coach in the NFL, Chad should take note as he comes off like a total loser who has been holding onto a grudge for years.  


Truth hurts.  He didn’t say Frazier was an ahole or anything.  Just that his version of defense allows you to get dink and dunked to death. 


I don't think there's one right way to play defense. If there were, everyone would be doing the same thing. The attackers generate big plays and are often victimized by their aggressiveness as well. The sit backers force offenses to play mistake free but they're on the field a lot. 

What will we get from Flores? Only one thing I know for certain is that we'll be fun to watch. A series of oh yeahs and oh fucks. I do like that certain defensive players seems to be well suited to Flores style. Pace, Asamoah, Cine, Harry and Murphy in particular. 



The game has always been situational football and 1:1 match-ups. The former gets all the headlines these days

Fans can get too caught up on 3/4 vs 4/3 vs 4/6 etc..I'm guilty of it too 

#12 · Sep 4, 12:35 PM
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@"StickyBun" said:
@"AGRforever" said:
@"JR44" said: Surprised Greenway would make such a non-classy statement, he can give his view of the current defense without taking a cheap shot at Frazier for something that happened years ago.  Ironically Frazier is one of the most professional and classy guys to coach in the NFL, Chad should take note as he comes off like a total loser who has been holding onto a grudge for years.  


Truth hurts.  He didn’t say Frazier was an ahole or anything.  Just that his version of defense allows you to get dink and dunked to death. 


Agreed. Why is this so 'disrespectful'?? I swear, there isn't anything that can't be manufactured outrage on the Internet.


Greenway retired SEVEN years ago, Leslie Frazier hasn't coached here in TEN years, what is the relevancy of this years defense to TEN years ago.  I could see making a comment about how our CBs played way off the ball last year and this year they will be more attacking, BUT there is no relationship to Frazier and this team.  It is obviously some old hard feelings that Greenway has that he has been hanging onto.  Totally uncalled for and unprofessional in my opinion.  But yeah because it is Greenway he can do no wrong so let's just chalk it up to a societal issue.  

#13 · Sep 4, 3:13 PM
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@"JR44" said:
@"StickyBun" said:
@"AGRforever" said:
@"JR44" said: Surprised Greenway would make such a non-classy statement, he can give his view of the current defense without taking a cheap shot at Frazier for something that happened years ago.  Ironically Frazier is one of the most professional and classy guys to coach in the NFL, Chad should take note as he comes off like a total loser who has been holding onto a grudge for years.  


Truth hurts.  He didn’t say Frazier was an ahole or anything.  Just that his version of defense allows you to get dink and dunked to death. 


Agreed. Why is this so 'disrespectful'?? I swear, there isn't anything that can't be manufactured outrage on the Internet.


Greenway retired SEVEN years ago, Leslie Frazier hasn't coached here in TEN years, what is the relevancy of this years defense to TEN years ago.  I could see making a comment about how our CBs played way off the ball last year and this year they will be more attacking, BUT there is no relationship to Frazier and this team.  It is obviously some old hard feelings that Greenway has that he has been hanging onto.  Totally uncalled for and unprofessional in my opinion.  But yeah because it is Greenway he can do no wrong so let's just chalk it up to a societal issue.  


I play when I wanna play.....What was the content of the comment?  You are getting what is likely a snippet of a conversation and are likely reading more harm into it than what was intended.  

#14 · Sep 4, 3:21 PM
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@"MaroonBells" said:
@"AGRforever" said:
@"JR44" said: Surprised Greenway would make such a non-classy statement, he can give his view of the current defense without taking a cheap shot at Frazier for something that happened years ago.  Ironically Frazier is one of the most professional and classy guys to coach in the NFL, Chad should take note as he comes off like a total loser who has been holding onto a grudge for years.  


Truth hurts.  He didn’t say Frazier was an ahole or anything.  Just that his version of defense allows you to get dink and dunked to death. 


I don't think there's one right way to play defense. If there were, everyone would be doing the same thing. The attackers generate big plays and are often victimized by their aggressiveness as well. The sit backers force offenses to play mistake free but they're on the field a lot. 

What will we get from Flores? Only one thing I know for certain is that we'll be fun to watch. A series of oh yeahs and oh fucks. I do like that certain defensive players seems to be well suited to Flores style. Pace, Asamoah, Cine, Harry and Murphy in particular. 



The cover 2 had its time.  It was about taking away the deep shots, making offenses work their way methodically down the field and being ready to capitalize on mistakes.  It built in response to the offensive schemes of that time.  But as football goes, the offenses were designed to take apart the cover 2 zone schemes.   

#15 · Sep 5, 3:39 PM
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Forum The Longship Mr Greenway is not holding back...

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