Ingram

@"MaroonBells" said:

@"greediron" said:

I can tell what is wrong even without listening to it.  Luke Braun is trying to break down tape again.

I grow weary of Braun's tape takes too. But I think he's exactly right on this one. Big mental mistake by Ingram. Bring in Risner if you have to, but that cannot continue to happen. 

@"greediron" said:

@"MaroonBells" said:

@"greediron" said:

I can tell what is wrong even without listening to it.  Luke Braun is trying to break down tape again.

I grow weary of Braun's tape takes too. But I think he's exactly right on this one. Big mental mistake by Ingram. Bring in Risner if you have to, but that cannot continue to happen. 

Yeah, pretty easy to see that was a mental mistake, likely by Ingram.  It wasn't a physical beating, just didn't try to block him so the protection broke down.

And yes if it was on Ingram that is not a good look.  But wasn't that Schlottman at Center?  So it isn't clear who made that call and who made the mistake.

I am worried about Kirk getting injured with the same IOL.  

December 2022

Ed Ingram is 41 of 42 in PFF pass block grading and has given up by far the most pressures and sacks in the NFL for a guard. Can the Vikings let him continue to learn on the job if a high seed in the playoffs is within reach?

@"minny65" said:

I am worried about Kirk getting injured with the same IOL.  

December 2022

Ed Ingram is 41 of 42 in PFF pass block grading and has given up by far the most pressures and sacks in the NFL for a guard. Can the Vikings let him continue to learn on the job if a high seed in the playoffs is within reach?

Make no mistake, the OL has improved this year with the emergence of Darrisaw as a beast, the steady play of O'Neill, and the adequate play of Cleveland and (surprisingly) Bradbury.
Despite that, the offense still isn't hitting on all cylinders and a big reason is the overall pass blocking. Per Pro Football Reference the Vikings have the 5th highest rate of pressures against the QB, the 7th most hurries, and the 4th most QB hits. Partially as a result, the Vikings have the 2nd lowest "Intended Air Yards" per pass and are relying on play action at the highest rate in the NFL.

I'm not going to argue with that, only provide a little context. According to PFF, he was bad, but not as bad as two 1st round guards who were taken ahead of him. We'll see how he does in his 2nd season. I think he improves. If he doesn't, he'll likely be replaced by Brandel, or maybe even Risner. But my money's on Ingram. OK, like a dollar. :-)

The bad thing is that he could be one of those OLs who just take longer to develop. Some do and we don't have time for that. Stringer wasn't really a good right tackle until his 5th season. Bradbury didn't improve much until his 4th season. Ethan Pocic had PFF grades in the 40s (40s!!!) his first three seasons. He just signed an $18M contract with the Browns. 

@"MaroonBells" said:

@"minny65" said:

I am worried about Kirk getting injured with the same IOL.  

December 2022

Ed Ingram is 41 of 42 in PFF pass block grading and has given up by far the most pressures and sacks in the NFL for a guard. Can the Vikings let him continue to learn on the job if a high seed in the playoffs is within reach?

Make no mistake, the OL has improved this year with the emergence of Darrisaw as a beast, the steady play of O'Neill, and the adequate play of Cleveland and (surprisingly) Bradbury.
Despite that, the offense still isn't hitting on all cylinders and a big reason is the overall pass blocking. Per Pro Football Reference the Vikings have the 5th highest rate of pressures against the QB, the 7th most hurries, and the 4th most QB hits. Partially as a result, the Vikings have the 2nd lowest "Intended Air Yards" per pass and are relying on play action at the highest rate in the NFL.

So....it almost sounds like you're saying Ingram was bad last year.  B) 

I'm not going to argue with that, only provide a little context. According to PFF, he was bad, but not as bad as two 1st round guards who were taken ahead of him. We'll see how he does in his 2nd season. I think he improves. If he doesn't, he'll likely be replaced by Brandel, or maybe even Risner. But my money's on Ingram. OK, like a dollar. :-)

The bad thing is that he could be one of those OLs who just take longer to develop. Some do and we don't have time for that. Stringer wasn't really a good right tackle until his 5th season. Bradbury didn't improve much until his 4th season. Ethan Pocic had PFF grades in the 40s (40s!!!) his first three seasons. He just signed an $18M contract with the Browns. 

@"minny65" said:

@"MaroonBells" said:

@"minny65" said:

I am worried about Kirk getting injured with the same IOL.  

December 2022

Ed Ingram is 41 of 42 in PFF pass block grading and has given up by far the most pressures and sacks in the NFL for a guard. Can the Vikings let him continue to learn on the job if a high seed in the playoffs is within reach?

Make no mistake, the OL has improved this year with the emergence of Darrisaw as a beast, the steady play of O'Neill, and the adequate play of Cleveland and (surprisingly) Bradbury.
Despite that, the offense still isn't hitting on all cylinders and a big reason is the overall pass blocking. Per Pro Football Reference the Vikings have the 5th highest rate of pressures against the QB, the 7th most hurries, and the 4th most QB hits. Partially as a result, the Vikings have the 2nd lowest "Intended Air Yards" per pass and are relying on play action at the highest rate in the NFL.

So....it almost sounds like you're saying Ingram was bad last year.  B) 

I'm not going to argue with that, only provide a little context. According to PFF, he was bad, but not as bad as two 1st round guards who were taken ahead of him. We'll see how he does in his 2nd season. I think he improves. If he doesn't, he'll likely be replaced by Brandel, or maybe even Risner. But my money's on Ingram. OK, like a dollar. :-)

The bad thing is that he could be one of those OLs who just take longer to develop. Some do and we don't have time for that. Stringer wasn't really a good right tackle until his 5th season. Bradbury didn't improve much until his 4th season. Ethan Pocic had PFF grades in the 40s (40s!!!) his first three seasons. He just signed an $18M contract with the Browns. 

I expect improvement but how much is really needed by the whole interior to go from Kirk getting hit the 4th most to middle of the pack??  I guess my point is improvement is expected when you are essentially at the bottom.  I'm not sure where he ended up but I read that Ingram was on pace for the most QB pressures by a Guard since they started recording in 2009.  He was on pace for 68 which would have been the record.  I think he ended up with 62/63 so not sure how he ended up.  

@"MaroonBells" said:

@"minny65" said:

@"MaroonBells" said:

@"minny65" said:

I am worried about Kirk getting injured with the same IOL.  

December 2022

Ed Ingram is 41 of 42 in PFF pass block grading and has given up by far the most pressures and sacks in the NFL for a guard. Can the Vikings let him continue to learn on the job if a high seed in the playoffs is within reach?

Make no mistake, the OL has improved this year with the emergence of Darrisaw as a beast, the steady play of O'Neill, and the adequate play of Cleveland and (surprisingly) Bradbury.
Despite that, the offense still isn't hitting on all cylinders and a big reason is the overall pass blocking. Per Pro Football Reference the Vikings have the 5th highest rate of pressures against the QB, the 7th most hurries, and the 4th most QB hits. Partially as a result, the Vikings have the 2nd lowest "Intended Air Yards" per pass and are relying on play action at the highest rate in the NFL.

So....it almost sounds like you're saying Ingram was bad last year.  B) 

I'm not going to argue with that, only provide a little context. According to PFF, he was bad, but not as bad as two 1st round guards who were taken ahead of him. We'll see how he does in his 2nd season. I think he improves. If he doesn't, he'll likely be replaced by Brandel, or maybe even Risner. But my money's on Ingram. OK, like a dollar. :-)

The bad thing is that he could be one of those OLs who just take longer to develop. Some do and we don't have time for that. Stringer wasn't really a good right tackle until his 5th season. Bradbury didn't improve much until his 4th season. Ethan Pocic had PFF grades in the 40s (40s!!!) his first three seasons. He just signed an $18M contract with the Browns. 

I expect improvement but how much is really needed by the whole interior to go from Kirk getting hit the 4th most to middle of the pack??  I guess my point is improvement is expected when you are essentially at the bottom.  I'm not sure where he ended up but I read that Ingram was on pace for the most QB pressures by a Guard since they started recording in 2009.  He was on pace for 68 which would have been the record.  I think he ended up with 62/63 so not sure how he ended up.  

Dunno, but I don't think he got there. He improved later in the season. He had four games in a row between week 5 and week 9 where his pass blocking grade was 31, 36, 16 and 48. That has to be some kind of record for ineptitude.

However, after that stretch, his pass blocking grade fell below 50 only once, and he had three games over 70, one over 80. 

@"jargomcfargo" said:

@"MaroonBells" said:

@"minny65" said:

@"MaroonBells" said:

@"minny65" said:

I am worried about Kirk getting injured with the same IOL.  

December 2022

Ed Ingram is 41 of 42 in PFF pass block grading and has given up by far the most pressures and sacks in the NFL for a guard. Can the Vikings let him continue to learn on the job if a high seed in the playoffs is within reach?

Make no mistake, the OL has improved this year with the emergence of Darrisaw as a beast, the steady play of O'Neill, and the adequate play of Cleveland and (surprisingly) Bradbury.
Despite that, the offense still isn't hitting on all cylinders and a big reason is the overall pass blocking. Per Pro Football Reference the Vikings have the 5th highest rate of pressures against the QB, the 7th most hurries, and the 4th most QB hits. Partially as a result, the Vikings have the 2nd lowest "Intended Air Yards" per pass and are relying on play action at the highest rate in the NFL.

So....it almost sounds like you're saying Ingram was bad last year.  B) 

I'm not going to argue with that, only provide a little context. According to PFF, he was bad, but not as bad as two 1st round guards who were taken ahead of him. We'll see how he does in his 2nd season. I think he improves. If he doesn't, he'll likely be replaced by Brandel, or maybe even Risner. But my money's on Ingram. OK, like a dollar. :-)

The bad thing is that he could be one of those OLs who just take longer to develop. Some do and we don't have time for that. Stringer wasn't really a good right tackle until his 5th season. Bradbury didn't improve much until his 4th season. Ethan Pocic had PFF grades in the 40s (40s!!!) his first three seasons. He just signed an $18M contract with the Browns. 

I expect improvement but how much is really needed by the whole interior to go from Kirk getting hit the 4th most to middle of the pack??  I guess my point is improvement is expected when you are essentially at the bottom.  I'm not sure where he ended up but I read that Ingram was on pace for the most QB pressures by a Guard since they started recording in 2009.  He was on pace for 68 which would have been the record.  I think he ended up with 62/63 so not sure how he ended up.  

Dunno, but I don't think he got there. He improved later in the season. He had four games in a row between week 5 and week 9 where his pass blocking grade was 31, 36, 16 and 48. That has to be some kind of record for ineptitude.

However, after that stretch, his pass blocking grade fell below 50 only once, and he had three games over 70, one over 80. 

O-linemen often make their biggest jump in improvement in their second year, and Ingram did improve at the end of last year. I think the Vikings are playing him in preseason to see if that was a mirage and to get him more experience. I hope they keep playing him in preseason, and he comes around, because alternatives like Risner in particular seem to be fools gold!

@"minny65" said:

@"jargomcfargo" said:

@"MaroonBells" said:

@"minny65" said:

@"MaroonBells" said:

@"minny65" said:

I am worried about Kirk getting injured with the same IOL.  

December 2022

Ed Ingram is 41 of 42 in PFF pass block grading and has given up by far the most pressures and sacks in the NFL for a guard. Can the Vikings let him continue to learn on the job if a high seed in the playoffs is within reach?

Make no mistake, the OL has improved this year with the emergence of Darrisaw as a beast, the steady play of O'Neill, and the adequate play of Cleveland and (surprisingly) Bradbury.
Despite that, the offense still isn't hitting on all cylinders and a big reason is the overall pass blocking. Per Pro Football Reference the Vikings have the 5th highest rate of pressures against the QB, the 7th most hurries, and the 4th most QB hits. Partially as a result, the Vikings have the 2nd lowest "Intended Air Yards" per pass and are relying on play action at the highest rate in the NFL.

So....it almost sounds like you're saying Ingram was bad last year.  B) 

I'm not going to argue with that, only provide a little context. According to PFF, he was bad, but not as bad as two 1st round guards who were taken ahead of him. We'll see how he does in his 2nd season. I think he improves. If he doesn't, he'll likely be replaced by Brandel, or maybe even Risner. But my money's on Ingram. OK, like a dollar. :-)

The bad thing is that he could be one of those OLs who just take longer to develop. Some do and we don't have time for that. Stringer wasn't really a good right tackle until his 5th season. Bradbury didn't improve much until his 4th season. Ethan Pocic had PFF grades in the 40s (40s!!!) his first three seasons. He just signed an $18M contract with the Browns. 

I expect improvement but how much is really needed by the whole interior to go from Kirk getting hit the 4th most to middle of the pack??  I guess my point is improvement is expected when you are essentially at the bottom.  I'm not sure where he ended up but I read that Ingram was on pace for the most QB pressures by a Guard since they started recording in 2009.  He was on pace for 68 which would have been the record.  I think he ended up with 62/63 so not sure how he ended up.  

Dunno, but I don't think he got there. He improved later in the season. He had four games in a row between week 5 and week 9 where his pass blocking grade was 31, 36, 16 and 48. That has to be some kind of record for ineptitude.

However, after that stretch, his pass blocking grade fell below 50 only once, and he had three games over 70, one over 80. 

O-linemen often make their biggest jump in improvement in their second year, and Ingram did improve at the end of last year. I think the Vikings are playing him in preseason to see if that was a mirage and to get him more experience. I hope they keep playing him in preseason, and he comes around, because alternatives like Risner in particular seem to be fools gold!

I think Risner would mean about a third the hits on Kirk coming from that position and I consider that a huge upgrade for a team that is going to be pass happy.  I really don't think Ingram is going to improve that much.  Risner is going into his 5th year and is still young and healthy.  I hope we have his phone number as preseason progresses and see more of Ingram.  

"The former Bronco allowed 29 pressures in 2022, Ingram allowed 58, and Cleveland 53. He also allowed only 6 QB hits, the two Vikes combined for 38. Similar to what his scouting report said coming out of college, he is still a great pass-blocker. Considering Minnesota’s pass-heavy offense that came with Kevin O’Connell, their passing percentage was third in the league; having good pass-blockers should be something to strive for.
According to PFF, no player allowed more QB hits than Cleveland in 2022. He also ranked fourth-worst in pressures allowed. His counterpart Ed Ingram has been even worse as he allowed the most sacks, second-most hits, and the most pressures, not just on the team, in the whole league. Risner would certainly be an upgrade over Cleveland and Ingram, especially in pass protection. Why he is still available is a mystery."/

@"MaroonBells" said:

@"minny65" said:

@"MaroonBells" said:

@"minny65" said:

I am worried about Kirk getting injured with the same IOL.  

December 2022

Ed Ingram is 41 of 42 in PFF pass block grading and has given up by far the most pressures and sacks in the NFL for a guard. Can the Vikings let him continue to learn on the job if a high seed in the playoffs is within reach?

Make no mistake, the OL has improved this year with the emergence of Darrisaw as a beast, the steady play of O'Neill, and the adequate play of Cleveland and (surprisingly) Bradbury.
Despite that, the offense still isn't hitting on all cylinders and a big reason is the overall pass blocking. Per Pro Football Reference the Vikings have the 5th highest rate of pressures against the QB, the 7th most hurries, and the 4th most QB hits. Partially as a result, the Vikings have the 2nd lowest "Intended Air Yards" per pass and are relying on play action at the highest rate in the NFL.

So....it almost sounds like you're saying Ingram was bad last year.  B) 

I'm not going to argue with that, only provide a little context. According to PFF, he was bad, but not as bad as two 1st round guards who were taken ahead of him. We'll see how he does in his 2nd season. I think he improves. If he doesn't, he'll likely be replaced by Brandel, or maybe even Risner. But my money's on Ingram. OK, like a dollar. :-)

The bad thing is that he could be one of those OLs who just take longer to develop. Some do and we don't have time for that. Stringer wasn't really a good right tackle until his 5th season. Bradbury didn't improve much until his 4th season. Ethan Pocic had PFF grades in the 40s (40s!!!) his first three seasons. He just signed an $18M contract with the Browns. 

I expect improvement but how much is really needed by the whole interior to go from Kirk getting hit the 4th most to middle of the pack??  I guess my point is improvement is expected when you are essentially at the bottom.  I'm not sure where he ended up but I read that Ingram was on pace for the most QB pressures by a Guard since they started recording in 2009.  He was on pace for 68 which would have been the record.  I think he ended up with 62/63 so not sure how he ended up.  

Dunno, but I don't think he got there. He improved later in the season. He had four games in a row between week 5 and week 9 where his pass blocking grade was 31, 36, 16 and 48. That has to be some kind of record for ineptitude.

However, after that stretch, his pass blocking grade fell below 50 only once, and he had three games over 70, one over 80. 

@"comet52" said:

@"MaroonBells" said:

@"minny65" said:

@"MaroonBells" said:

@"minny65" said:

I am worried about Kirk getting injured with the same IOL.  

December 2022

Ed Ingram is 41 of 42 in PFF pass block grading and has given up by far the most pressures and sacks in the NFL for a guard. Can the Vikings let him continue to learn on the job if a high seed in the playoffs is within reach?

Make no mistake, the OL has improved this year with the emergence of Darrisaw as a beast, the steady play of O'Neill, and the adequate play of Cleveland and (surprisingly) Bradbury.
Despite that, the offense still isn't hitting on all cylinders and a big reason is the overall pass blocking. Per Pro Football Reference the Vikings have the 5th highest rate of pressures against the QB, the 7th most hurries, and the 4th most QB hits. Partially as a result, the Vikings have the 2nd lowest "Intended Air Yards" per pass and are relying on play action at the highest rate in the NFL.

So....it almost sounds like you're saying Ingram was bad last year.  B) 

I'm not going to argue with that, only provide a little context. According to PFF, he was bad, but not as bad as two 1st round guards who were taken ahead of him. We'll see how he does in his 2nd season. I think he improves. If he doesn't, he'll likely be replaced by Brandel, or maybe even Risner. But my money's on Ingram. OK, like a dollar. :-)

The bad thing is that he could be one of those OLs who just take longer to develop. Some do and we don't have time for that. Stringer wasn't really a good right tackle until his 5th season. Bradbury didn't improve much until his 4th season. Ethan Pocic had PFF grades in the 40s (40s!!!) his first three seasons. He just signed an $18M contract with the Browns. 

I expect improvement but how much is really needed by the whole interior to go from Kirk getting hit the 4th most to middle of the pack??  I guess my point is improvement is expected when you are essentially at the bottom.  I'm not sure where he ended up but I read that Ingram was on pace for the most QB pressures by a Guard since they started recording in 2009.  He was on pace for 68 which would have been the record.  I think he ended up with 62/63 so not sure how he ended up.  

Dunno, but I don't think he got there. He improved later in the season. He had four games in a row between week 5 and week 9 where his pass blocking grade was 31, 36, 16 and 48. That has to be some kind of record for ineptitude.

However, after that stretch, his pass blocking grade fell below 50 only once, and he had three games over 70, one over 80. 

This is the hope--that he was showing improvement over time and will become serviceable.   It seems the "wait 3 years before you know if a guy was a good pick" thing is out the window with Ingram for most people.   I don't think he has nearly as many ? marks as say, Andrew Booth Jr.   That guy is teetering on the edge of Bustville, but Ingram, I'm willing to wait another year or two and see what happens.  

@"minny65" said:

@"comet52" said:

@"MaroonBells" said:

@"minny65" said:

@"MaroonBells" said:

@"minny65" said:

I am worried about Kirk getting injured with the same IOL.  

December 2022

Ed Ingram is 41 of 42 in PFF pass block grading and has given up by far the most pressures and sacks in the NFL for a guard. Can the Vikings let him continue to learn on the job if a high seed in the playoffs is within reach?

Make no mistake, the OL has improved this year with the emergence of Darrisaw as a beast, the steady play of O'Neill, and the adequate play of Cleveland and (surprisingly) Bradbury.
Despite that, the offense still isn't hitting on all cylinders and a big reason is the overall pass blocking. Per Pro Football Reference the Vikings have the 5th highest rate of pressures against the QB, the 7th most hurries, and the 4th most QB hits. Partially as a result, the Vikings have the 2nd lowest "Intended Air Yards" per pass and are relying on play action at the highest rate in the NFL.

So....it almost sounds like you're saying Ingram was bad last year.  B) 

I'm not going to argue with that, only provide a little context. According to PFF, he was bad, but not as bad as two 1st round guards who were taken ahead of him. We'll see how he does in his 2nd season. I think he improves. If he doesn't, he'll likely be replaced by Brandel, or maybe even Risner. But my money's on Ingram. OK, like a dollar. :-)

The bad thing is that he could be one of those OLs who just take longer to develop. Some do and we don't have time for that. Stringer wasn't really a good right tackle until his 5th season. Bradbury didn't improve much until his 4th season. Ethan Pocic had PFF grades in the 40s (40s!!!) his first three seasons. He just signed an $18M contract with the Browns. 

I expect improvement but how much is really needed by the whole interior to go from Kirk getting hit the 4th most to middle of the pack??  I guess my point is improvement is expected when you are essentially at the bottom.  I'm not sure where he ended up but I read that Ingram was on pace for the most QB pressures by a Guard since they started recording in 2009.  He was on pace for 68 which would have been the record.  I think he ended up with 62/63 so not sure how he ended up.  

Dunno, but I don't think he got there. He improved later in the season. He had four games in a row between week 5 and week 9 where his pass blocking grade was 31, 36, 16 and 48. That has to be some kind of record for ineptitude.

However, after that stretch, his pass blocking grade fell below 50 only once, and he had three games over 70, one over 80. 

This is the hope--that he was showing improvement over time and will become serviceable.   It seems the "wait 3 years before you know if a guy was a good pick" thing is out the window with Ingram for most people.   I don't think he has nearly as many ? marks as say, Andrew Booth Jr.   That guy is teetering on the edge of Bustville, but Ingram, I'm willing to wait another year or two and see what happens.  

Let's hope Kirk or any of our QB's can withstand the time needed for Igram to improve from basically being a bottom 5 G in football.

Are we sure he really improved, or did it have anything to do with who he was going up against?  Don't know, just something to consider.  

If Ingram has another poor showing this week, I think we need to reach out to Risner to get him acclimated ASAP or at the minimum as Maroon points out, get Brandel in there.  

It pisses me off how weak the Viking O-line interior is.....

@"StickyBun" said: It pisses me off how weak the Viking O-line interior is.....

@"supafreak84" said:

@"StickyBun" said: It pisses me off how weak the Viking O-line interior is.....

@"supafreak84" said:

@"1VikesFan" said:

@"MaroonBells" said: Former Viking center John Sullivan weighs in....

Former Vikings center John Sullivan isn’t impressed by the clip of Bradbury getting thrown by the Titans DT

According to multiple reports, the Vikings OL held up pretty well in pass protection in the joint practices this week. But of course this one ugly rep is what goes viral. pic.twitter.com/zKQs5IxBWk

— Krauser (@Krauserrific) August 18, 2023

Nice to see Sullivan weighing in and defending Bradbury.

He's another guy who couldn't anchor, so not surprised to hear him trying to defend Bradbury