1st Unofficial Depth Chart - Lots new on D
https://www.vikings.com/news/2023-depth-chart-unofficial
I was just perusing this first "unofficial" depth chart and noting the number of new STARTERS on Offense vs. Defense (yeah, I know, I have a good grasp for the obvious).
The only two new starters on Offense appear to be
RB (Mattison)
Slot R (Addison)
But on D, I counted seven new starters.
OLB Marcus Davenport
DE Dean Lowry
NT Tonga
ILB Asamoah
CB Murphy
CB Evans
S Bynum
Not to mention the elephant in the room on Defense...BFlores.
Bynum started last season and pretty sure Tonga started most of the season. So we got Lowry, swapping Kendricks for Asamoah, Zadarius for Davenport, and Pat Peterson for Murphy. I think the changes on defense are being hugely overrated. Guess we will all find our soon...
Doesn't mean much right now.
Vikings coach Kevin O'Connell issued a warning to the Purple zealots of Vikings Nation soon after the team officially released its first unofficial depth chart of the 2023 season.
"We're very much right into the competition part of training camp," O'Connell said Monday. "I would not over-evaluate one particular area. We have a lot of jobs guys are still fighting for, and we're going to allow for our practices, joint practices and preseason games to play out before we make any final determinations."
One notably interesting spot on the depth chart was backup running back, where Kene Nwangwu is listed No. 2 behind starter Alexander Mattison despite seeing little action in camp because of an injury. Second-year pro Ty Chandler, who flashed in the 2022 preseason, has looked good as the No. 2 back in camp so far. He is listed No. 3."That backup spot is still really fully in the competition," O'Connell said. "I will tell you that sheet of paper, we are not making any decisions at this point.
"I really want to see those guys get a full body of work before we determine overall what that position looks like. Ty has been really looking solid running the football and showing those instincts you saw last year in the preseason that we're excited about.
And he continues to grow from an understanding of protection."
https://www.startribune.com/minnesota-vikings-depth-chart-training-camp-kevin-oconnell-notebook/600295447/
Tonga started the last 2 games of the regular season …
@"supafreak84" said: Bynum started last season and pretty sure Tonga started most of the season. So we got Lowry, swapping Kendricks for Asamoah, Zadarius for Davenport, and Pat Peterson for Murphy. I think the changes on defense are being hugely overrated. Guess we will all find our soon...Differences in scheme and play calling can't be overstated. Still have my doubts whether we can stop the run, or won't get smoked more than average in the passing game, but expect us to be at least 8 spots higher in scoring defense. Probably still in the bottom 3rd of the league.
Any tendencies figured out on tape from Zimmer or Donatell is now useless.
Flores can use that to his advantage.
They'll make fewer mistakes. That alone will lead to improvement.
Given that we have a new scheme, I'm less concerned with how many new starters we have and more concerned with how many guys we have that aren't starting caliber.
Hunter and Davenport in a Flores scheme is at the very least a wash with Hunter and Z in a Donatell scheme. Outside of scheme, biggest upgrade in my mind are the corners. P2, Dantzler and Sullivan to Murphy, Evans and either Booth or Blackmon. Biggest downgrade is easily Tomlinson to Lowry.
@"MaroonBells" said: Hunter and Davenport in a Flores scheme is at the very least a wash with Hunter and Z in a Donatell scheme. Outside of scheme, biggest upgrade in my mind are the corners. P2, Dantzler and Sullivan to Murphy, Evans and either Booth or Blackmon. Biggest downgrade is easily Tomlinson to Lowry.
How are the CBs an upgrade? We're downgrading from P2 to Murphy and then have a bunch of guys who've never played. I'm hopeful for Blackmon, but I don't think Booth is going to be able to stay healthy enough to learn the position at an NFL level. I think if we're lucky we'll have two starting caliber CBs that will have to play all the snaps and never get injured. I think they're easily the biggest weakness on the team.
@"MaroonBells" said: Hunter and Davenport in a Flores scheme is at the very least a wash with Hunter and Z in a Donatell scheme. Outside of scheme, biggest upgrade in my mind are the corners. P2, Dantzler and Sullivan to Murphy, Evans and either Booth or Blackmon. Biggest downgrade is easily Tomlinson to Lowry.
Dude, you are blowing way too much purple defense smoke up our asses, lol. My guess is that Flores's scheme may assist the D in not being complete and utter garbage like last year, but otherwise we just have more bandaids and unproven players for this year's version. Hoping for the best.
@"medaille" said: Given that we have a new scheme, I'm less concerned with how many new starters we have and more concerned with how many guys we have that aren't starting caliber.Looking at our front 3 and LBs and CBs outside of Murphy, you have a legit point. In reviewing the depth chart the DL really jumped out to me. I am not sure how this is our 2nd year in a 3-4 and we have not done a better job of building the DL. Unless Pace turns out to be the freak he is being portrayed as, I think we could be hurting at LB as well. I think the CB position has some talent and if guys can stay healthy we can improve there.
It's combo:
They haven't hit on enough draft choices on D....Some of these picks need to start playing/playing better.
Rooks are going to get thrown into the fire this year.
FA can help in the future, when they have more cap flex; it is what it is for 23.
@"medaille" said:@"MaroonBells" said: Hunter and Davenport in a Flores scheme is at the very least a wash with Hunter and Z in a Donatell scheme. Outside of scheme, biggest upgrade in my mind are the corners. P2, Dantzler and Sullivan to Murphy, Evans and either Booth or Blackmon. Biggest downgrade is easily Tomlinson to Lowry.
How are the CBs an upgrade? We're downgrading from P2 to Murphy and then have a bunch of guys who've never played. I'm hopeful for Blackmon, but I don't think Booth is going to be able to stay healthy enough to learn the position at an NFL level. I think if we're lucky we'll have two starting caliber CBs that will have to play all the snaps and never get injured. I think they're easily the biggest weakness on the team.
Because I thought Peterson was overrated. And I said that before the season. I'll admit he had a better year than I thought he would, but Murphy is a better corner IMO. And that Chandon Sullivan was the worst corner we've had in years. And that it's pretty obvious by now that Dantzler was a fake. And that I love what I saw from Evans in limited duty. He's got to stay healthy. We have some health questions to be sure, but as unproven as Blackmon and Booth are, it's not going to take much to improve upon Chandon Freaking Sullivan.
@"MaroonBells" said: Hunter and Davenport in a Flores scheme is at the very least a wash with Hunter and Z in a Donatell scheme. Outside of scheme, biggest upgrade in my mind are the corners. P2, Dantzler and Sullivan to Murphy, Evans and either Booth or Blackmon. Biggest downgrade is easily Tomlinson to Lowry.
Seems to be good competition at CB as well. I think we now have some depth there unlike last season. Add in the fact they will be playing actual coverage and it could be actually fun to watch.
@"medaille" said:@"MaroonBells" said: Hunter and Davenport in a Flores scheme is at the very least a wash with Hunter and Z in a Donatell scheme. Outside of scheme, biggest upgrade in my mind are the corners. P2, Dantzler and Sullivan to Murphy, Evans and either Booth or Blackmon. Biggest downgrade is easily Tomlinson to Lowry.
How are the CBs an upgrade? We're downgrading from P2 to Murphy and then have a bunch of guys who've never played. I'm hopeful for Blackmon, but I don't think Booth is going to be able to stay healthy enough to learn the position at an NFL level. I think if we're lucky we'll have two starting caliber CBs that will have to play all the snaps and never get injured. I think they're easily the biggest weakness on the team.
Booth apparently was getting torched in today's practice by fresh off the street N'Keal Harry. Booth just seems like a guy we arent going to be able to count on, so we better hope Murphy and Evans hold up and Blackmon develops quicky...
Booth seems to be lost in space, but Murphy is better now than PP, Evans > Dantzler, and anything with a pulse (Blackmon moving into the lead as 3rd corner) > Sullivan. Depth/health however is a big worry. After Blackmon, I have little to no faith in Williams or Booth.
Still makes me wonder why management was so eager to cut Duke loose after last year. He'd clearly be in the mix, but supposedly didn't possess the ideal measurables. Then we go and pick up Ivan Pace...
Not that PFF is the end all, be all, but just for comparison sake, in 2022:
P2: 80.7
Dantzler: 63.1
Murphy: 66.7
Evans: 47.2
Booth: 45.3
Evans took <15% of our snaps last year and was behind 4 other CBs in terms of snap count, and all 4 aren't here anymore. If he couldn't beat them out then, why is he better than them now? Booth looks like he's going to need another rookie year to come up to speed.
Regardless of personnel changes, the coaching changes will make a huge difference. I can't believe how terribly coached that defense was last year. Flores is going to be a huge difference maker.
Now on personnel.
- Murphy is a better fit than Peterson. More athletic, more flexible.
- The safety grouping is going to make things very interesting with freaks like Cine and Metellus being able to come down on the second level. A lot of flexibility in personnel, could be very interesting and a big year for Harry
- More speed on the 2nd level with Asomoah and Pace. I get why Hicks is here but I would expect less of him on the field as the season progresses
- Sullivan and Dantzler were some of the worst corners I've seen (Josh Robinson, Asher Allen, Chris Cook included). Evans flashed a lot of skills and abilities when on the field. The youngsters will learn by fire but a Flores pressure D will help them gain confidence fast
- Hunter is going to be going upfield vs dropping back and playing in space. With a mix of looks that will open up a variety of matchups for him to rush the passer.
- Davenport and Z will be a wash. I see Davenport making plays, I just don't know how consistent he will be. Z was boom or bust last year
@"medaille" said: Not that PFF is the end all, be all, but just for comparison sake, in 2022:P2: 80.7
Dantzler: 63.1Murphy: 66.7
Evans: 47.2
Booth: 45.3Evans took <15% of our snaps last year and was behind 4 other CBs in terms of snap count, and all 4 aren't here anymore. If he couldn't beat them out then, why is he better than them now? Booth looks like he's going to need another rookie year to come up to speed.
I think Peterson's PFF score benefitted from all those picks. Like I said, he had a bounce back year. But he still couldn't be trusted in man. I think Murphy is a better, more versatile player who tended to do best against the NFL's best receivers. You can put him outside or in the slot. And he's a terrific blitzer as well.
You know who had the highest PFF score for the Vikings? Duke Shelley. And the Vikings wouldn't even spend $700K to bring him back.
I just loved what I saw from Evans, mostly in the preseason, but also when he finally got a chance to start against the Commanders. Sticky coverage, played the run well.
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