I think this is a 9-win football team for 2023

@"supafreak84" said:

@"MaroonBells" said:

@"supafreak84" said:

@"JimmyinSD" said: I think we upgraded the coaching on D,  but likely have taken a step back in talent on that side of the ball,  I am very concerned about our run defense once again,  it seemed that teams rarely had an issue running in short yardage between the 20s when they had the entire field to work with, we did look a little better in condensed situations where the defense didnt have so much room to cover,  but that should go with most any defense.  I also question if we have made any gains on O,   Addison and Nailer,  should be able to cover up for the lost production from AT, but his leadership may be missed.  ISjr... well I could make up for his lost production so we are good at TE, but I know continuity is a big thing for OL play,  but IMO it wasnt a lack of continuity for our interior OL last year,  it was a lack of an anchor, so running Bradberry back out there again does nothing for me in terms of expectation for improvement,  in fact our interior OL has looked like crap since Cleveland was moved from right to left guard IMO ( I thought he played better on the right side and I dont recall as many free rushes through that right gap as we have seen the last couple years)  all in all,   I think we will have a better team,  but a worse record, maybe a 1 and done in the playoffs,  and once again be picking late teens early 20s.

That's been my concern also. While I think the pass defense will be improved by virtue of scheme change under Flores and some hopefully healthy bodies, I think the run defense will struggle. We struggled last season but we're so poor against the pass teams just kept stealing and didn't feel the need to run it. It was pitch and catch essentially. Tonga, Lowry and Phillips are just guys to me and the backups aren't much better. We don't penetrate or collapse the pocket. Despite the disagreement of others, I think we are small at linebacker and Hicks is past his prime. None of this adds up to a stout run defense and if we are going to simply allow free lineman to get to the second level consistently and put a body on our linebackers, we are going to be in trouble. Scheme and coaching only go so far. You need the horses to make it work and that's where I think we are lacking 

You're right. We don't yet have the horses for a top half defense. But I don't hear anyone arguing that we will. It doesn't have to be top half. If Flores and the aggressive new scheme improves the defense from 31st to, say, 21st, this team will be better than it was last year.  

I'm leery on just how much better the defense will be simply by the addition of Flores (who has never been a DC) when we dont have the horses. I don't see any significant upgrades and you could argue the additions we made have been downgrades. Tomlinson for Lowry, Kendricks for Asamoah (or the decision to retain Hicks), Murphy for PP, and Zadarius for a guy who had half a sack last year and transitioning to a new position. We hope the secondary is better but we already have Booth on the sidelines. Evans is probably one good bell ringing from retirement. So I don't see a ten position jump in overall rankings simply by having Flores. We lack overall talent and difference makers along the defensive line. If Flores gets this defense anywhere above 20th he should be awarded coach of the decade. 

And while we might improve on defense you are still hoping the offense can retain or improve upon their showing last season. I still contend losing Dalvin Cook is going to hurt, just how much...we'll have to wait and see. 

@"JimmyinSD" said:

@"supafreak84" said:

@"MaroonBells" said:

@"supafreak84" said:

@"JimmyinSD" said: I think we upgraded the coaching on D,  but likely have taken a step back in talent on that side of the ball,  I am very concerned about our run defense once again,  it seemed that teams rarely had an issue running in short yardage between the 20s when they had the entire field to work with, we did look a little better in condensed situations where the defense didnt have so much room to cover,  but that should go with most any defense.  I also question if we have made any gains on O,   Addison and Nailer,  should be able to cover up for the lost production from AT, but his leadership may be missed.  ISjr... well I could make up for his lost production so we are good at TE, but I know continuity is a big thing for OL play,  but IMO it wasnt a lack of continuity for our interior OL last year,  it was a lack of an anchor, so running Bradberry back out there again does nothing for me in terms of expectation for improvement,  in fact our interior OL has looked like crap since Cleveland was moved from right to left guard IMO ( I thought he played better on the right side and I dont recall as many free rushes through that right gap as we have seen the last couple years)  all in all,   I think we will have a better team,  but a worse record, maybe a 1 and done in the playoffs,  and once again be picking late teens early 20s.

That's been my concern also. While I think the pass defense will be improved by virtue of scheme change under Flores and some hopefully healthy bodies, I think the run defense will struggle. We struggled last season but we're so poor against the pass teams just kept stealing and didn't feel the need to run it. It was pitch and catch essentially. Tonga, Lowry and Phillips are just guys to me and the backups aren't much better. We don't penetrate or collapse the pocket. Despite the disagreement of others, I think we are small at linebacker and Hicks is past his prime. None of this adds up to a stout run defense and if we are going to simply allow free lineman to get to the second level consistently and put a body on our linebackers, we are going to be in trouble. Scheme and coaching only go so far. You need the horses to make it work and that's where I think we are lacking 

You're right. We don't yet have the horses for a top half defense. But I don't hear anyone arguing that we will. It doesn't have to be top half. If Flores and the aggressive new scheme improves the defense from 31st to, say, 21st, this team will be better than it was last year.  

I'm leery on just how much better the defense will be simply by the addition of Flores (who has never been a DC) when we dont have the horses. I don't see any significant upgrades and you could argue the additions we made have been downgrades. Tomlinson for Lowry, Kendricks for Asamoah (or the decision to retain Hicks), Murphy for PP, and Zadarius for a guy who had half a sack last year and transitioning to a new position. We hope the secondary is better but we already have Booth on the sidelines. Evans is probably one good bell ringing from retirement. So I don't see a ten position jump in overall rankings simply by having Flores. We lack overall talent and difference makers along the defensive line. If Flores gets this defense anywhere above 20th he should be awarded coach of the decade. 

And while we might improve on defense you are still hoping the offense can retain or improve upon their showing last season. I still contend losing Dalvin Cook is going to hurt, just how much...we'll have to wait and see. 

you could see a 10 spot improvement just from having players understand and buy into a system IMO.

@"supafreak84" said:

@"JimmyinSD" said:

@"supafreak84" said:

@"MaroonBells" said:

@"supafreak84" said:

@"JimmyinSD" said: I think we upgraded the coaching on D,  but likely have taken a step back in talent on that side of the ball,  I am very concerned about our run defense once again,  it seemed that teams rarely had an issue running in short yardage between the 20s when they had the entire field to work with, we did look a little better in condensed situations where the defense didnt have so much room to cover,  but that should go with most any defense.  I also question if we have made any gains on O,   Addison and Nailer,  should be able to cover up for the lost production from AT, but his leadership may be missed.  ISjr... well I could make up for his lost production so we are good at TE, but I know continuity is a big thing for OL play,  but IMO it wasnt a lack of continuity for our interior OL last year,  it was a lack of an anchor, so running Bradberry back out there again does nothing for me in terms of expectation for improvement,  in fact our interior OL has looked like crap since Cleveland was moved from right to left guard IMO ( I thought he played better on the right side and I dont recall as many free rushes through that right gap as we have seen the last couple years)  all in all,   I think we will have a better team,  but a worse record, maybe a 1 and done in the playoffs,  and once again be picking late teens early 20s.

That's been my concern also. While I think the pass defense will be improved by virtue of scheme change under Flores and some hopefully healthy bodies, I think the run defense will struggle. We struggled last season but we're so poor against the pass teams just kept stealing and didn't feel the need to run it. It was pitch and catch essentially. Tonga, Lowry and Phillips are just guys to me and the backups aren't much better. We don't penetrate or collapse the pocket. Despite the disagreement of others, I think we are small at linebacker and Hicks is past his prime. None of this adds up to a stout run defense and if we are going to simply allow free lineman to get to the second level consistently and put a body on our linebackers, we are going to be in trouble. Scheme and coaching only go so far. You need the horses to make it work and that's where I think we are lacking 

You're right. We don't yet have the horses for a top half defense. But I don't hear anyone arguing that we will. It doesn't have to be top half. If Flores and the aggressive new scheme improves the defense from 31st to, say, 21st, this team will be better than it was last year.  

I'm leery on just how much better the defense will be simply by the addition of Flores (who has never been a DC) when we dont have the horses. I don't see any significant upgrades and you could argue the additions we made have been downgrades. Tomlinson for Lowry, Kendricks for Asamoah (or the decision to retain Hicks), Murphy for PP, and Zadarius for a guy who had half a sack last year and transitioning to a new position. We hope the secondary is better but we already have Booth on the sidelines. Evans is probably one good bell ringing from retirement. So I don't see a ten position jump in overall rankings simply by having Flores. We lack overall talent and difference makers along the defensive line. If Flores gets this defense anywhere above 20th he should be awarded coach of the decade. 

And while we might improve on defense you are still hoping the offense can retain or improve upon their showing last season. I still contend losing Dalvin Cook is going to hurt, just how much...we'll have to wait and see. 

you could see a 10 spot improvement just from having players understand and buy into a system IMO.

I doubt we'd see that substantial of a jump up the rankings simply by players buying into the system because you still need the talent to execute and when I look at this defense there are legitimate concerns at all 3 levels. I think we still fall somewhere into that 25 to 31 range. I hope I'm wrong, but it's hard to argue the lack of talent outside of Hunter and Harrison Smith.

@"JimmyinSD" said:

@"supafreak84" said:

@"JimmyinSD" said:

@"supafreak84" said:

@"MaroonBells" said:

@"supafreak84" said:

@"JimmyinSD" said: I think we upgraded the coaching on D,  but likely have taken a step back in talent on that side of the ball,  I am very concerned about our run defense once again,  it seemed that teams rarely had an issue running in short yardage between the 20s when they had the entire field to work with, we did look a little better in condensed situations where the defense didnt have so much room to cover,  but that should go with most any defense.  I also question if we have made any gains on O,   Addison and Nailer,  should be able to cover up for the lost production from AT, but his leadership may be missed.  ISjr... well I could make up for his lost production so we are good at TE, but I know continuity is a big thing for OL play,  but IMO it wasnt a lack of continuity for our interior OL last year,  it was a lack of an anchor, so running Bradberry back out there again does nothing for me in terms of expectation for improvement,  in fact our interior OL has looked like crap since Cleveland was moved from right to left guard IMO ( I thought he played better on the right side and I dont recall as many free rushes through that right gap as we have seen the last couple years)  all in all,   I think we will have a better team,  but a worse record, maybe a 1 and done in the playoffs,  and once again be picking late teens early 20s.

That's been my concern also. While I think the pass defense will be improved by virtue of scheme change under Flores and some hopefully healthy bodies, I think the run defense will struggle. We struggled last season but we're so poor against the pass teams just kept stealing and didn't feel the need to run it. It was pitch and catch essentially. Tonga, Lowry and Phillips are just guys to me and the backups aren't much better. We don't penetrate or collapse the pocket. Despite the disagreement of others, I think we are small at linebacker and Hicks is past his prime. None of this adds up to a stout run defense and if we are going to simply allow free lineman to get to the second level consistently and put a body on our linebackers, we are going to be in trouble. Scheme and coaching only go so far. You need the horses to make it work and that's where I think we are lacking 

You're right. We don't yet have the horses for a top half defense. But I don't hear anyone arguing that we will. It doesn't have to be top half. If Flores and the aggressive new scheme improves the defense from 31st to, say, 21st, this team will be better than it was last year.  

I'm leery on just how much better the defense will be simply by the addition of Flores (who has never been a DC) when we dont have the horses. I don't see any significant upgrades and you could argue the additions we made have been downgrades. Tomlinson for Lowry, Kendricks for Asamoah (or the decision to retain Hicks), Murphy for PP, and Zadarius for a guy who had half a sack last year and transitioning to a new position. We hope the secondary is better but we already have Booth on the sidelines. Evans is probably one good bell ringing from retirement. So I don't see a ten position jump in overall rankings simply by having Flores. We lack overall talent and difference makers along the defensive line. If Flores gets this defense anywhere above 20th he should be awarded coach of the decade. 

And while we might improve on defense you are still hoping the offense can retain or improve upon their showing last season. I still contend losing Dalvin Cook is going to hurt, just how much...we'll have to wait and see. 

you could see a 10 spot improvement just from having players understand and buy into a system IMO.

I doubt we'd see that substantial of a jump up the rankings simply by players buying into the system because you still need the talent to execute and when I look at this defense there are legitimate concerns at all 3 levels. I think we still fall somewhere into that 25 to 31 range. I hope I'm wrong, but it's hard to argue the lack of talent outside of Hunter and Harrison Smith.

last years D, and even back to when Zimmer started playing with his formula down the stretch had players free lancing,  players having to think instead of reacting,  it was a slow D. If flores can implement a system that the players believe in and understand,  they will play faster, hit harder, and as a result,  typically play better,  and when you are talking about the bottom 1/3 of the league,  10 points isnt that hard to fathom for a jump based on where we've been the last couple years defensively.

@"supafreak84" said:

@"JimmyinSD" said:

@"supafreak84" said:

@"JimmyinSD" said:

@"supafreak84" said:

@"MaroonBells" said:

@"supafreak84" said:

@"JimmyinSD" said: I think we upgraded the coaching on D,  but likely have taken a step back in talent on that side of the ball,  I am very concerned about our run defense once again,  it seemed that teams rarely had an issue running in short yardage between the 20s when they had the entire field to work with, we did look a little better in condensed situations where the defense didnt have so much room to cover,  but that should go with most any defense.  I also question if we have made any gains on O,   Addison and Nailer,  should be able to cover up for the lost production from AT, but his leadership may be missed.  ISjr... well I could make up for his lost production so we are good at TE, but I know continuity is a big thing for OL play,  but IMO it wasnt a lack of continuity for our interior OL last year,  it was a lack of an anchor, so running Bradberry back out there again does nothing for me in terms of expectation for improvement,  in fact our interior OL has looked like crap since Cleveland was moved from right to left guard IMO ( I thought he played better on the right side and I dont recall as many free rushes through that right gap as we have seen the last couple years)  all in all,   I think we will have a better team,  but a worse record, maybe a 1 and done in the playoffs,  and once again be picking late teens early 20s.

That's been my concern also. While I think the pass defense will be improved by virtue of scheme change under Flores and some hopefully healthy bodies, I think the run defense will struggle. We struggled last season but we're so poor against the pass teams just kept stealing and didn't feel the need to run it. It was pitch and catch essentially. Tonga, Lowry and Phillips are just guys to me and the backups aren't much better. We don't penetrate or collapse the pocket. Despite the disagreement of others, I think we are small at linebacker and Hicks is past his prime. None of this adds up to a stout run defense and if we are going to simply allow free lineman to get to the second level consistently and put a body on our linebackers, we are going to be in trouble. Scheme and coaching only go so far. You need the horses to make it work and that's where I think we are lacking 

You're right. We don't yet have the horses for a top half defense. But I don't hear anyone arguing that we will. It doesn't have to be top half. If Flores and the aggressive new scheme improves the defense from 31st to, say, 21st, this team will be better than it was last year.  

I'm leery on just how much better the defense will be simply by the addition of Flores (who has never been a DC) when we dont have the horses. I don't see any significant upgrades and you could argue the additions we made have been downgrades. Tomlinson for Lowry, Kendricks for Asamoah (or the decision to retain Hicks), Murphy for PP, and Zadarius for a guy who had half a sack last year and transitioning to a new position. We hope the secondary is better but we already have Booth on the sidelines. Evans is probably one good bell ringing from retirement. So I don't see a ten position jump in overall rankings simply by having Flores. We lack overall talent and difference makers along the defensive line. If Flores gets this defense anywhere above 20th he should be awarded coach of the decade. 

And while we might improve on defense you are still hoping the offense can retain or improve upon their showing last season. I still contend losing Dalvin Cook is going to hurt, just how much...we'll have to wait and see. 

you could see a 10 spot improvement just from having players understand and buy into a system IMO.

I doubt we'd see that substantial of a jump up the rankings simply by players buying into the system because you still need the talent to execute and when I look at this defense there are legitimate concerns at all 3 levels. I think we still fall somewhere into that 25 to 31 range. I hope I'm wrong, but it's hard to argue the lack of talent outside of Hunter and Harrison Smith.

last years D, and even back to when Zimmer started playing with his formula down the stretch had players free lancing,  players having to think instead of reacting,  it was a slow D. If flores can implement a system that the players believe in and understand,  they will play faster, hit harder, and as a result,  typically play better,  and when you are talking about the bottom 1/3 of the league,  10 points isnt that hard to fathom for a jump based on where we've been the last couple years defensively.

Well I hope you are right. Just saw James Lynch tore his ACL yesterday and outor the year. He was one of our regular rotation guys on a front lacking talent. This is the stuff I'm talking about with injuries and law of averages 

@"JimmyinSD" said:

@"supafreak84" said:

@"JimmyinSD" said:

@"supafreak84" said:

@"JimmyinSD" said:

@"supafreak84" said:

@"MaroonBells" said:

@"supafreak84" said:

@"JimmyinSD" said: I think we upgraded the coaching on D,  but likely have taken a step back in talent on that side of the ball,  I am very concerned about our run defense once again,  it seemed that teams rarely had an issue running in short yardage between the 20s when they had the entire field to work with, we did look a little better in condensed situations where the defense didnt have so much room to cover,  but that should go with most any defense.  I also question if we have made any gains on O,   Addison and Nailer,  should be able to cover up for the lost production from AT, but his leadership may be missed.  ISjr... well I could make up for his lost production so we are good at TE, but I know continuity is a big thing for OL play,  but IMO it wasnt a lack of continuity for our interior OL last year,  it was a lack of an anchor, so running Bradberry back out there again does nothing for me in terms of expectation for improvement,  in fact our interior OL has looked like crap since Cleveland was moved from right to left guard IMO ( I thought he played better on the right side and I dont recall as many free rushes through that right gap as we have seen the last couple years)  all in all,   I think we will have a better team,  but a worse record, maybe a 1 and done in the playoffs,  and once again be picking late teens early 20s.

That's been my concern also. While I think the pass defense will be improved by virtue of scheme change under Flores and some hopefully healthy bodies, I think the run defense will struggle. We struggled last season but we're so poor against the pass teams just kept stealing and didn't feel the need to run it. It was pitch and catch essentially. Tonga, Lowry and Phillips are just guys to me and the backups aren't much better. We don't penetrate or collapse the pocket. Despite the disagreement of others, I think we are small at linebacker and Hicks is past his prime. None of this adds up to a stout run defense and if we are going to simply allow free lineman to get to the second level consistently and put a body on our linebackers, we are going to be in trouble. Scheme and coaching only go so far. You need the horses to make it work and that's where I think we are lacking 

You're right. We don't yet have the horses for a top half defense. But I don't hear anyone arguing that we will. It doesn't have to be top half. If Flores and the aggressive new scheme improves the defense from 31st to, say, 21st, this team will be better than it was last year.  

I'm leery on just how much better the defense will be simply by the addition of Flores (who has never been a DC) when we dont have the horses. I don't see any significant upgrades and you could argue the additions we made have been downgrades. Tomlinson for Lowry, Kendricks for Asamoah (or the decision to retain Hicks), Murphy for PP, and Zadarius for a guy who had half a sack last year and transitioning to a new position. We hope the secondary is better but we already have Booth on the sidelines. Evans is probably one good bell ringing from retirement. So I don't see a ten position jump in overall rankings simply by having Flores. We lack overall talent and difference makers along the defensive line. If Flores gets this defense anywhere above 20th he should be awarded coach of the decade. 

And while we might improve on defense you are still hoping the offense can retain or improve upon their showing last season. I still contend losing Dalvin Cook is going to hurt, just how much...we'll have to wait and see. 

you could see a 10 spot improvement just from having players understand and buy into a system IMO.

I doubt we'd see that substantial of a jump up the rankings simply by players buying into the system because you still need the talent to execute and when I look at this defense there are legitimate concerns at all 3 levels. I think we still fall somewhere into that 25 to 31 range. I hope I'm wrong, but it's hard to argue the lack of talent outside of Hunter and Harrison Smith.

last years D, and even back to when Zimmer started playing with his formula down the stretch had players free lancing,  players having to think instead of reacting,  it was a slow D. If flores can implement a system that the players believe in and understand,  they will play faster, hit harder, and as a result,  typically play better,  and when you are talking about the bottom 1/3 of the league,  10 points isnt that hard to fathom for a jump based on where we've been the last couple years defensively.

Well I hope you are right. Just saw James Lynch tore his ACL yesterday and outor the year. He was one of our regular rotation guys on a front lacking talent. This is the stuff I'm talking about with injuries and law of averages 

to bad for the kid,  but he shouldnt be hard to replace,  you are going to have injuries,  its just when they happen to key players is when it really makes a difference.

@"supafreak84" said:

@"MaroonBells" said:

@"supafreak84" said:

@"JimmyinSD" said: I think we upgraded the coaching on D,  but likely have taken a step back in talent on that side of the ball,  I am very concerned about our run defense once again,  it seemed that teams rarely had an issue running in short yardage between the 20s when they had the entire field to work with, we did look a little better in condensed situations where the defense didnt have so much room to cover,  but that should go with most any defense.  I also question if we have made any gains on O,   Addison and Nailer,  should be able to cover up for the lost production from AT, but his leadership may be missed.  ISjr... well I could make up for his lost production so we are good at TE, but I know continuity is a big thing for OL play,  but IMO it wasnt a lack of continuity for our interior OL last year,  it was a lack of an anchor, so running Bradberry back out there again does nothing for me in terms of expectation for improvement,  in fact our interior OL has looked like crap since Cleveland was moved from right to left guard IMO ( I thought he played better on the right side and I dont recall as many free rushes through that right gap as we have seen the last couple years)  all in all,   I think we will have a better team,  but a worse record, maybe a 1 and done in the playoffs,  and once again be picking late teens early 20s.

That's been my concern also. While I think the pass defense will be improved by virtue of scheme change under Flores and some hopefully healthy bodies, I think the run defense will struggle. We struggled last season but we're so poor against the pass teams just kept stealing and didn't feel the need to run it. It was pitch and catch essentially. Tonga, Lowry and Phillips are just guys to me and the backups aren't much better. We don't penetrate or collapse the pocket. Despite the disagreement of others, I think we are small at linebacker and Hicks is past his prime. None of this adds up to a stout run defense and if we are going to simply allow free lineman to get to the second level consistently and put a body on our linebackers, we are going to be in trouble. Scheme and coaching only go so far. You need the horses to make it work and that's where I think we are lacking 

You're right. We don't yet have the horses for a top half defense. But I don't hear anyone arguing that we will. It doesn't have to be top half. If Flores and the aggressive new scheme improves the defense from 31st to, say, 21st, this team will be better than it was last year.  

I'm leery on just how much better the defense will be simply by the addition of Flores (who has never been a DC) when we dont have the horses. I don't see any significant upgrades and you could argue the additions we made have been downgrades. Tomlinson for Lowry, Kendricks for Asamoah (or the decision to retain Hicks), Murphy for PP, and Zadarius for a guy who had half a sack last year and transitioning to a new position. We hope the secondary is better but we already have Booth on the sidelines. Evans is probably one good bell ringing from retirement. So I don't see a ten position jump in overall rankings simply by having Flores. We lack overall talent and difference makers along the defensive line. If Flores gets this defense anywhere above 20th he should be awarded coach of the decade. 

And while we might improve on defense you are still hoping the offense can retain or improve upon their showing last season. I still contend losing Dalvin Cook is going to hurt, just how much...we'll have to wait and see. 

We won't be undefeated this year in one-score games, but I firmly believe the D will be improved with Flores aggressive approach helping out the weaker backside of the D.  I am in the 11-win camp and a repeat as Division Champs.  Hell, maybe we can even win a playoff game!  

I think Detroit wins the NFCN and we come second and possibly getting a Wild Card invite to the playoffs.  Hope we defend our NFCN crown, but I just think that Detroit is loaded on the both sides of the ball.

@"HappyViking" said: I think Detroit wins the NFCN and we come second and possibly getting a Wild Card invite to the playoffs.  Hope we defend our NFCN crown, but I just think that Detroit is loaded on the both sides of the ball.

But they're projected to start 10 new players, either rookies are incoming free agents. That's a lot of cohering that needs to happen. 

@"MaroonBells" said:

@"supafreak84" said:

@"MaroonBells" said:

@"supafreak84" said:

@"JimmyinSD" said: I think we upgraded the coaching on D,  but likely have taken a step back in talent on that side of the ball,  I am very concerned about our run defense once again,  it seemed that teams rarely had an issue running in short yardage between the 20s when they had the entire field to work with, we did look a little better in condensed situations where the defense didnt have so much room to cover,  but that should go with most any defense.  I also question if we have made any gains on O,   Addison and Nailer,  should be able to cover up for the lost production from AT, but his leadership may be missed.  ISjr... well I could make up for his lost production so we are good at TE, but I know continuity is a big thing for OL play,  but IMO it wasnt a lack of continuity for our interior OL last year,  it was a lack of an anchor, so running Bradberry back out there again does nothing for me in terms of expectation for improvement,  in fact our interior OL has looked like crap since Cleveland was moved from right to left guard IMO ( I thought he played better on the right side and I dont recall as many free rushes through that right gap as we have seen the last couple years)  all in all,   I think we will have a better team,  but a worse record, maybe a 1 and done in the playoffs,  and once again be picking late teens early 20s.

That's been my concern also. While I think the pass defense will be improved by virtue of scheme change under Flores and some hopefully healthy bodies, I think the run defense will struggle. We struggled last season but we're so poor against the pass teams just kept stealing and didn't feel the need to run it. It was pitch and catch essentially. Tonga, Lowry and Phillips are just guys to me and the backups aren't much better. We don't penetrate or collapse the pocket. Despite the disagreement of others, I think we are small at linebacker and Hicks is past his prime. None of this adds up to a stout run defense and if we are going to simply allow free lineman to get to the second level consistently and put a body on our linebackers, we are going to be in trouble. Scheme and coaching only go so far. You need the horses to make it work and that's where I think we are lacking 

You're right. We don't yet have the horses for a top half defense. But I don't hear anyone arguing that we will. It doesn't have to be top half. If Flores and the aggressive new scheme improves the defense from 31st to, say, 21st, this team will be better than it was last year.  

I'm leery on just how much better the defense will be simply by the addition of Flores (who has never been a DC) when we dont have the horses. I don't see any significant upgrades and you could argue the additions we made have been downgrades. Tomlinson for Lowry, Kendricks for Asamoah (or the decision to retain Hicks), Murphy for PP, and Zadarius for a guy who had half a sack last year and transitioning to a new position. We hope the secondary is better but we already have Booth on the sidelines. Evans is probably one good bell ringing from retirement. So I don't see a ten position jump in overall rankings simply by having Flores. We lack overall talent and difference makers along the defensive line. If Flores gets this defense anywhere above 20th he should be awarded coach of the decade. 

And while we might improve on defense you are still hoping the offense can retain or improve upon their showing last season. I still contend losing Dalvin Cook is going to hurt, just how much...we'll have to wait and see. 

OK, Eeyore, but you're only seeing the negative. A reasonable person sees the positive and negative and evaluates accordingly. 

• No, technically, Fores has never been a DC, but he did call the plays in New England. He didn't get the title because that's how New England does things. What's more, he was such a hot commodity after helping Belichick pitch the lowest scoring Super Bowl in history, he went straight from assistant to head coach. 

• I'll give you Tomlinson to Lowry. To me, that's the only real downgrade on our defense and one that has me a little worried.

• Kendricks to Asamoah I'm excited about. You have to admit...Kendricks was horrible last season. Hicks...meh...I'll give you that one too. But watch out for Ivan Pace Jr. That's not just hype. That little bastard can flat play. 

• Murphy for PP is a significant upgrade in my eyes. P2 is 33. Murph is 25 and has been uniquely effective in shadow coverage against the likes of Davante Adams and Cooper Kupp. A blitz-heavy teams requires a corner like this. 

• Half a sack for Davenport. Fans see sacks; blitzing DCs see pressures. MD was PFF's #1 ranked edge in free agency this year because he recorded a 13% pressure rate in every season since entering the league in 2018. Myles Garrett is the only other player to do that. 

The Lion’s defense was actually worse then ours last season, hype doesn’t win divisions…!

@"supafreak84" said:

@"MaroonBells" said:

@"supafreak84" said:

@"MaroonBells" said:

@"supafreak84" said:

@"JimmyinSD" said: I think we upgraded the coaching on D,  but likely have taken a step back in talent on that side of the ball,  I am very concerned about our run defense once again,  it seemed that teams rarely had an issue running in short yardage between the 20s when they had the entire field to work with, we did look a little better in condensed situations where the defense didnt have so much room to cover,  but that should go with most any defense.  I also question if we have made any gains on O,   Addison and Nailer,  should be able to cover up for the lost production from AT, but his leadership may be missed.  ISjr... well I could make up for his lost production so we are good at TE, but I know continuity is a big thing for OL play,  but IMO it wasnt a lack of continuity for our interior OL last year,  it was a lack of an anchor, so running Bradberry back out there again does nothing for me in terms of expectation for improvement,  in fact our interior OL has looked like crap since Cleveland was moved from right to left guard IMO ( I thought he played better on the right side and I dont recall as many free rushes through that right gap as we have seen the last couple years)  all in all,   I think we will have a better team,  but a worse record, maybe a 1 and done in the playoffs,  and once again be picking late teens early 20s.

That's been my concern also. While I think the pass defense will be improved by virtue of scheme change under Flores and some hopefully healthy bodies, I think the run defense will struggle. We struggled last season but we're so poor against the pass teams just kept stealing and didn't feel the need to run it. It was pitch and catch essentially. Tonga, Lowry and Phillips are just guys to me and the backups aren't much better. We don't penetrate or collapse the pocket. Despite the disagreement of others, I think we are small at linebacker and Hicks is past his prime. None of this adds up to a stout run defense and if we are going to simply allow free lineman to get to the second level consistently and put a body on our linebackers, we are going to be in trouble. Scheme and coaching only go so far. You need the horses to make it work and that's where I think we are lacking 

You're right. We don't yet have the horses for a top half defense. But I don't hear anyone arguing that we will. It doesn't have to be top half. If Flores and the aggressive new scheme improves the defense from 31st to, say, 21st, this team will be better than it was last year.  

I'm leery on just how much better the defense will be simply by the addition of Flores (who has never been a DC) when we dont have the horses. I don't see any significant upgrades and you could argue the additions we made have been downgrades. Tomlinson for Lowry, Kendricks for Asamoah (or the decision to retain Hicks), Murphy for PP, and Zadarius for a guy who had half a sack last year and transitioning to a new position. We hope the secondary is better but we already have Booth on the sidelines. Evans is probably one good bell ringing from retirement. So I don't see a ten position jump in overall rankings simply by having Flores. We lack overall talent and difference makers along the defensive line. If Flores gets this defense anywhere above 20th he should be awarded coach of the decade. 

And while we might improve on defense you are still hoping the offense can retain or improve upon their showing last season. I still contend losing Dalvin Cook is going to hurt, just how much...we'll have to wait and see. 

OK, Eeyore, but you're only seeing the negative. A reasonable person sees the positive and negative and evaluates accordingly. 

• No, technically, Fores has never been a DC, but he did call the plays in New England. He didn't get the title because that's how New England does things. What's more, he was such a hot commodity after helping Belichick pitch the lowest scoring Super Bowl in history, he went straight from assistant to head coach. 

• I'll give you Tomlinson to Lowry. To me, that's the only real downgrade on our defense and one that has me a little worried.

• Kendricks to Asamoah I'm excited about. You have to admit...Kendricks was horrible last season. Hicks...meh...I'll give you that one too. But watch out for Ivan Pace Jr. That's not just hype. That little bastard can flat play. 

• Murphy for PP is a significant upgrade in my eyes. P2 is 33. Murph is 25 and has been uniquely effective in shadow coverage against the likes of Davante Adams and Cooper Kupp. A blitz-heavy teams requires a corner like this. 

• Half a sack for Davenport. Fans see sacks; blitzing DCs see pressures. MD was PFF's #1 ranked edge in free agency this year because he recorded a 13% pressure rate in every season since entering the league in 2018. Myles Garrett is the only other player to do that. 

Well thanks for the pretty purple clouds Bob Ross, but I don't see them (reasonably) as upgrades and we can't discount the leadership lost in the turnover. Like I said, anything in the realm of 20th or above and Flores should be knighted as coach if the decade and it will be a quick one and done stop for him 

@"Kentis" said: The Lion’s defense was actually worse then ours last season, hype doesn’t win divisions…!

@"MaroonBells" said:

@"supafreak84" said:

@"MaroonBells" said:

@"supafreak84" said:

@"MaroonBells" said:

@"supafreak84" said:

@"JimmyinSD" said: I think we upgraded the coaching on D,  but likely have taken a step back in talent on that side of the ball,  I am very concerned about our run defense once again,  it seemed that teams rarely had an issue running in short yardage between the 20s when they had the entire field to work with, we did look a little better in condensed situations where the defense didnt have so much room to cover,  but that should go with most any defense.  I also question if we have made any gains on O,   Addison and Nailer,  should be able to cover up for the lost production from AT, but his leadership may be missed.  ISjr... well I could make up for his lost production so we are good at TE, but I know continuity is a big thing for OL play,  but IMO it wasnt a lack of continuity for our interior OL last year,  it was a lack of an anchor, so running Bradberry back out there again does nothing for me in terms of expectation for improvement,  in fact our interior OL has looked like crap since Cleveland was moved from right to left guard IMO ( I thought he played better on the right side and I dont recall as many free rushes through that right gap as we have seen the last couple years)  all in all,   I think we will have a better team,  but a worse record, maybe a 1 and done in the playoffs,  and once again be picking late teens early 20s.

That's been my concern also. While I think the pass defense will be improved by virtue of scheme change under Flores and some hopefully healthy bodies, I think the run defense will struggle. We struggled last season but we're so poor against the pass teams just kept stealing and didn't feel the need to run it. It was pitch and catch essentially. Tonga, Lowry and Phillips are just guys to me and the backups aren't much better. We don't penetrate or collapse the pocket. Despite the disagreement of others, I think we are small at linebacker and Hicks is past his prime. None of this adds up to a stout run defense and if we are going to simply allow free lineman to get to the second level consistently and put a body on our linebackers, we are going to be in trouble. Scheme and coaching only go so far. You need the horses to make it work and that's where I think we are lacking 

You're right. We don't yet have the horses for a top half defense. But I don't hear anyone arguing that we will. It doesn't have to be top half. If Flores and the aggressive new scheme improves the defense from 31st to, say, 21st, this team will be better than it was last year.  

I'm leery on just how much better the defense will be simply by the addition of Flores (who has never been a DC) when we dont have the horses. I don't see any significant upgrades and you could argue the additions we made have been downgrades. Tomlinson for Lowry, Kendricks for Asamoah (or the decision to retain Hicks), Murphy for PP, and Zadarius for a guy who had half a sack last year and transitioning to a new position. We hope the secondary is better but we already have Booth on the sidelines. Evans is probably one good bell ringing from retirement. So I don't see a ten position jump in overall rankings simply by having Flores. We lack overall talent and difference makers along the defensive line. If Flores gets this defense anywhere above 20th he should be awarded coach of the decade. 

And while we might improve on defense you are still hoping the offense can retain or improve upon their showing last season. I still contend losing Dalvin Cook is going to hurt, just how much...we'll have to wait and see. 

OK, Eeyore, but you're only seeing the negative. A reasonable person sees the positive and negative and evaluates accordingly. 

• No, technically, Fores has never been a DC, but he did call the plays in New England. He didn't get the title because that's how New England does things. What's more, he was such a hot commodity after helping Belichick pitch the lowest scoring Super Bowl in history, he went straight from assistant to head coach. 

• I'll give you Tomlinson to Lowry. To me, that's the only real downgrade on our defense and one that has me a little worried.

• Kendricks to Asamoah I'm excited about. You have to admit...Kendricks was horrible last season. Hicks...meh...I'll give you that one too. But watch out for Ivan Pace Jr. That's not just hype. That little bastard can flat play. 

• Murphy for PP is a significant upgrade in my eyes. P2 is 33. Murph is 25 and has been uniquely effective in shadow coverage against the likes of Davante Adams and Cooper Kupp. A blitz-heavy teams requires a corner like this. 

• Half a sack for Davenport. Fans see sacks; blitzing DCs see pressures. MD was PFF's #1 ranked edge in free agency this year because he recorded a 13% pressure rate in every season since entering the league in 2018. Myles Garrett is the only other player to do that. 

Well thanks for the pretty purple clouds Bob Ross, but I don't see them (reasonably) as upgrades and we can't discount the leadership lost in the turnover. Like I said, anything in the realm of 20th or above and Flores should be knighted as coach if the decade and it will be a quick one and done stop for him 

You make it sound like improving from 31st to 20th is some unprecedented landmark achievement. That kind of improvement (and decline) is pretty standard in the NFL. 

Bengals improved from 26th to 18th and went to the Super Bowl. Chiefs improved from 27th to 11th and went to the Super Bowl by increasing their pressure rate and becoming one of the most blitz happy teams in the NFL. Last year the Ravens improved from 25th to 9th. Sauce was a big factor, but the Jets improved their defense mostly by changing their defensive philosophy and went from 32nd to 4th. Point is, it happens quite a bit. 

@"JimmyinSD" said:

@"MaroonBells" said:

@"supafreak84" said:

@"MaroonBells" said:

@"supafreak84" said:

@"MaroonBells" said:

@"supafreak84" said:

@"JimmyinSD" said: I think we upgraded the coaching on D,  but likely have taken a step back in talent on that side of the ball,  I am very concerned about our run defense once again,  it seemed that teams rarely had an issue running in short yardage between the 20s when they had the entire field to work with, we did look a little better in condensed situations where the defense didnt have so much room to cover,  but that should go with most any defense.  I also question if we have made any gains on O,   Addison and Nailer,  should be able to cover up for the lost production from AT, but his leadership may be missed.  ISjr... well I could make up for his lost production so we are good at TE, but I know continuity is a big thing for OL play,  but IMO it wasnt a lack of continuity for our interior OL last year,  it was a lack of an anchor, so running Bradberry back out there again does nothing for me in terms of expectation for improvement,  in fact our interior OL has looked like crap since Cleveland was moved from right to left guard IMO ( I thought he played better on the right side and I dont recall as many free rushes through that right gap as we have seen the last couple years)  all in all,   I think we will have a better team,  but a worse record, maybe a 1 and done in the playoffs,  and once again be picking late teens early 20s.

That's been my concern also. While I think the pass defense will be improved by virtue of scheme change under Flores and some hopefully healthy bodies, I think the run defense will struggle. We struggled last season but we're so poor against the pass teams just kept stealing and didn't feel the need to run it. It was pitch and catch essentially. Tonga, Lowry and Phillips are just guys to me and the backups aren't much better. We don't penetrate or collapse the pocket. Despite the disagreement of others, I think we are small at linebacker and Hicks is past his prime. None of this adds up to a stout run defense and if we are going to simply allow free lineman to get to the second level consistently and put a body on our linebackers, we are going to be in trouble. Scheme and coaching only go so far. You need the horses to make it work and that's where I think we are lacking 

You're right. We don't yet have the horses for a top half defense. But I don't hear anyone arguing that we will. It doesn't have to be top half. If Flores and the aggressive new scheme improves the defense from 31st to, say, 21st, this team will be better than it was last year.  

I'm leery on just how much better the defense will be simply by the addition of Flores (who has never been a DC) when we dont have the horses. I don't see any significant upgrades and you could argue the additions we made have been downgrades. Tomlinson for Lowry, Kendricks for Asamoah (or the decision to retain Hicks), Murphy for PP, and Zadarius for a guy who had half a sack last year and transitioning to a new position. We hope the secondary is better but we already have Booth on the sidelines. Evans is probably one good bell ringing from retirement. So I don't see a ten position jump in overall rankings simply by having Flores. We lack overall talent and difference makers along the defensive line. If Flores gets this defense anywhere above 20th he should be awarded coach of the decade. 

And while we might improve on defense you are still hoping the offense can retain or improve upon their showing last season. I still contend losing Dalvin Cook is going to hurt, just how much...we'll have to wait and see. 

OK, Eeyore, but you're only seeing the negative. A reasonable person sees the positive and negative and evaluates accordingly. 

• No, technically, Fores has never been a DC, but he did call the plays in New England. He didn't get the title because that's how New England does things. What's more, he was such a hot commodity after helping Belichick pitch the lowest scoring Super Bowl in history, he went straight from assistant to head coach. 

• I'll give you Tomlinson to Lowry. To me, that's the only real downgrade on our defense and one that has me a little worried.

• Kendricks to Asamoah I'm excited about. You have to admit...Kendricks was horrible last season. Hicks...meh...I'll give you that one too. But watch out for Ivan Pace Jr. That's not just hype. That little bastard can flat play. 

• Murphy for PP is a significant upgrade in my eyes. P2 is 33. Murph is 25 and has been uniquely effective in shadow coverage against the likes of Davante Adams and Cooper Kupp. A blitz-heavy teams requires a corner like this. 

• Half a sack for Davenport. Fans see sacks; blitzing DCs see pressures. MD was PFF's #1 ranked edge in free agency this year because he recorded a 13% pressure rate in every season since entering the league in 2018. Myles Garrett is the only other player to do that. 

Well thanks for the pretty purple clouds Bob Ross, but I don't see them (reasonably) as upgrades and we can't discount the leadership lost in the turnover. Like I said, anything in the realm of 20th or above and Flores should be knighted as coach if the decade and it will be a quick one and done stop for him 

You make it sound like improving from 31st to 20th is some unprecedented landmark achievement. That kind of improvement (and decline) is pretty standard in the NFL. 

Bengals improved from 26th to 18th and went to the Super Bowl. Chiefs improved from 27th to 11th and went to the Super Bowl by increasing their pressure rate and becoming one of the most blitz happy teams in the NFL. Last year the Ravens improved from 25th to 9th. Sauce was a big factor, but the Jets improved their defense mostly by changing their defensive philosophy and went from 32nd to 4th. Point is, it happens quite a bit. 

how much of those gains were also accompanied by large investments into their defenses?  Some would argue that the only improvement we have made on that side of the ball was to the DC,  and while that should be an improvement,  we didnt really address any of the glaring needs from the last couple years.  I can see a jump in rankings,  but I dont see the improvement being enough to really change the outcome of the season or even many games.  This team IMO is still going to struggle and unless that horseshoe is still wedged firmly up KOCs ass,  the win loss record is likely going to regress from last year.

@"HappyViking" said:

@"Kentis" said: The Lion’s defense was actually worse then ours last season, hype doesn’t win divisions…!

I think that was because they started off fairly crappy.  Lions went 8-2 in their last 10 games that included beating GB twice, Bears twice, and a convincing win over our Vikes in December.  They have an impressive OL and some really nice young players on D.  They've had so many years of top draft picks; I think it's going to really pay off this upcoming season.

@"MaroonBells" said:

@"supafreak84" said:

@"MaroonBells" said:

@"supafreak84" said:

@"MaroonBells" said:

@"supafreak84" said:

@"JimmyinSD" said: I think we upgraded the coaching on D,  but likely have taken a step back in talent on that side of the ball,  I am very concerned about our run defense once again,  it seemed that teams rarely had an issue running in short yardage between the 20s when they had the entire field to work with, we did look a little better in condensed situations where the defense didnt have so much room to cover,  but that should go with most any defense.  I also question if we have made any gains on O,   Addison and Nailer,  should be able to cover up for the lost production from AT, but his leadership may be missed.  ISjr... well I could make up for his lost production so we are good at TE, but I know continuity is a big thing for OL play,  but IMO it wasnt a lack of continuity for our interior OL last year,  it was a lack of an anchor, so running Bradberry back out there again does nothing for me in terms of expectation for improvement,  in fact our interior OL has looked like crap since Cleveland was moved from right to left guard IMO ( I thought he played better on the right side and I dont recall as many free rushes through that right gap as we have seen the last couple years)  all in all,   I think we will have a better team,  but a worse record, maybe a 1 and done in the playoffs,  and once again be picking late teens early 20s.

That's been my concern also. While I think the pass defense will be improved by virtue of scheme change under Flores and some hopefully healthy bodies, I think the run defense will struggle. We struggled last season but we're so poor against the pass teams just kept stealing and didn't feel the need to run it. It was pitch and catch essentially. Tonga, Lowry and Phillips are just guys to me and the backups aren't much better. We don't penetrate or collapse the pocket. Despite the disagreement of others, I think we are small at linebacker and Hicks is past his prime. None of this adds up to a stout run defense and if we are going to simply allow free lineman to get to the second level consistently and put a body on our linebackers, we are going to be in trouble. Scheme and coaching only go so far. You need the horses to make it work and that's where I think we are lacking 

You're right. We don't yet have the horses for a top half defense. But I don't hear anyone arguing that we will. It doesn't have to be top half. If Flores and the aggressive new scheme improves the defense from 31st to, say, 21st, this team will be better than it was last year.  

I'm leery on just how much better the defense will be simply by the addition of Flores (who has never been a DC) when we dont have the horses. I don't see any significant upgrades and you could argue the additions we made have been downgrades. Tomlinson for Lowry, Kendricks for Asamoah (or the decision to retain Hicks), Murphy for PP, and Zadarius for a guy who had half a sack last year and transitioning to a new position. We hope the secondary is better but we already have Booth on the sidelines. Evans is probably one good bell ringing from retirement. So I don't see a ten position jump in overall rankings simply by having Flores. We lack overall talent and difference makers along the defensive line. If Flores gets this defense anywhere above 20th he should be awarded coach of the decade. 

And while we might improve on defense you are still hoping the offense can retain or improve upon their showing last season. I still contend losing Dalvin Cook is going to hurt, just how much...we'll have to wait and see. 

OK, Eeyore, but you're only seeing the negative. A reasonable person sees the positive and negative and evaluates accordingly. 

• No, technically, Fores has never been a DC, but he did call the plays in New England. He didn't get the title because that's how New England does things. What's more, he was such a hot commodity after helping Belichick pitch the lowest scoring Super Bowl in history, he went straight from assistant to head coach. 

• I'll give you Tomlinson to Lowry. To me, that's the only real downgrade on our defense and one that has me a little worried.

• Kendricks to Asamoah I'm excited about. You have to admit...Kendricks was horrible last season. Hicks...meh...I'll give you that one too. But watch out for Ivan Pace Jr. That's not just hype. That little bastard can flat play. 

• Murphy for PP is a significant upgrade in my eyes. P2 is 33. Murph is 25 and has been uniquely effective in shadow coverage against the likes of Davante Adams and Cooper Kupp. A blitz-heavy teams requires a corner like this. 

• Half a sack for Davenport. Fans see sacks; blitzing DCs see pressures. MD was PFF's #1 ranked edge in free agency this year because he recorded a 13% pressure rate in every season since entering the league in 2018. Myles Garrett is the only other player to do that. 

Well thanks for the pretty purple clouds Bob Ross, but I don't see them (reasonably) as upgrades and we can't discount the leadership lost in the turnover. Like I said, anything in the realm of 20th or above and Flores should be knighted as coach if the decade and it will be a quick one and done stop for him 

You make it sound like improving from 31st to 20th is some unprecedented landmark achievement. That kind of improvement (and decline) is pretty standard in the NFL. 

Bengals improved from 26th to 18th and went to the Super Bowl. Chiefs improved from 27th to 11th and went to the Super Bowl by increasing their pressure rate and becoming one of the most blitz happy teams in the NFL. Last year the Ravens improved from 25th to 9th. Sauce was a big factor, but the Jets improved their defense mostly by changing their defensive philosophy and went from 32nd to 4th. Point is, it happens quite a bit. 

@"JimmyinSD" said:

@"MaroonBells" said:

@"supafreak84" said:

@"MaroonBells" said:

@"supafreak84" said:

@"MaroonBells" said:

@"supafreak84" said:

@"JimmyinSD" said: I think we upgraded the coaching on D,  but likely have taken a step back in talent on that side of the ball,  I am very concerned about our run defense once again,  it seemed that teams rarely had an issue running in short yardage between the 20s when they had the entire field to work with, we did look a little better in condensed situations where the defense didnt have so much room to cover,  but that should go with most any defense.  I also question if we have made any gains on O,   Addison and Nailer,  should be able to cover up for the lost production from AT, but his leadership may be missed.  ISjr... well I could make up for his lost production so we are good at TE, but I know continuity is a big thing for OL play,  but IMO it wasnt a lack of continuity for our interior OL last year,  it was a lack of an anchor, so running Bradberry back out there again does nothing for me in terms of expectation for improvement,  in fact our interior OL has looked like crap since Cleveland was moved from right to left guard IMO ( I thought he played better on the right side and I dont recall as many free rushes through that right gap as we have seen the last couple years)  all in all,   I think we will have a better team,  but a worse record, maybe a 1 and done in the playoffs,  and once again be picking late teens early 20s.

That's been my concern also. While I think the pass defense will be improved by virtue of scheme change under Flores and some hopefully healthy bodies, I think the run defense will struggle. We struggled last season but we're so poor against the pass teams just kept stealing and didn't feel the need to run it. It was pitch and catch essentially. Tonga, Lowry and Phillips are just guys to me and the backups aren't much better. We don't penetrate or collapse the pocket. Despite the disagreement of others, I think we are small at linebacker and Hicks is past his prime. None of this adds up to a stout run defense and if we are going to simply allow free lineman to get to the second level consistently and put a body on our linebackers, we are going to be in trouble. Scheme and coaching only go so far. You need the horses to make it work and that's where I think we are lacking 

You're right. We don't yet have the horses for a top half defense. But I don't hear anyone arguing that we will. It doesn't have to be top half. If Flores and the aggressive new scheme improves the defense from 31st to, say, 21st, this team will be better than it was last year.  

I'm leery on just how much better the defense will be simply by the addition of Flores (who has never been a DC) when we dont have the horses. I don't see any significant upgrades and you could argue the additions we made have been downgrades. Tomlinson for Lowry, Kendricks for Asamoah (or the decision to retain Hicks), Murphy for PP, and Zadarius for a guy who had half a sack last year and transitioning to a new position. We hope the secondary is better but we already have Booth on the sidelines. Evans is probably one good bell ringing from retirement. So I don't see a ten position jump in overall rankings simply by having Flores. We lack overall talent and difference makers along the defensive line. If Flores gets this defense anywhere above 20th he should be awarded coach of the decade. 

And while we might improve on defense you are still hoping the offense can retain or improve upon their showing last season. I still contend losing Dalvin Cook is going to hurt, just how much...we'll have to wait and see. 

OK, Eeyore, but you're only seeing the negative. A reasonable person sees the positive and negative and evaluates accordingly. 

• No, technically, Fores has never been a DC, but he did call the plays in New England. He didn't get the title because that's how New England does things. What's more, he was such a hot commodity after helping Belichick pitch the lowest scoring Super Bowl in history, he went straight from assistant to head coach. 

• I'll give you Tomlinson to Lowry. To me, that's the only real downgrade on our defense and one that has me a little worried.

• Kendricks to Asamoah I'm excited about. You have to admit...Kendricks was horrible last season. Hicks...meh...I'll give you that one too. But watch out for Ivan Pace Jr. That's not just hype. That little bastard can flat play. 

• Murphy for PP is a significant upgrade in my eyes. P2 is 33. Murph is 25 and has been uniquely effective in shadow coverage against the likes of Davante Adams and Cooper Kupp. A blitz-heavy teams requires a corner like this. 

• Half a sack for Davenport. Fans see sacks; blitzing DCs see pressures. MD was PFF's #1 ranked edge in free agency this year because he recorded a 13% pressure rate in every season since entering the league in 2018. Myles Garrett is the only other player to do that. 

Well thanks for the pretty purple clouds Bob Ross, but I don't see them (reasonably) as upgrades and we can't discount the leadership lost in the turnover. Like I said, anything in the realm of 20th or above and Flores should be knighted as coach if the decade and it will be a quick one and done stop for him 

You make it sound like improving from 31st to 20th is some unprecedented landmark achievement. That kind of improvement (and decline) is pretty standard in the NFL. 

Bengals improved from 26th to 18th and went to the Super Bowl. Chiefs improved from 27th to 11th and went to the Super Bowl by increasing their pressure rate and becoming one of the most blitz happy teams in the NFL. Last year the Ravens improved from 25th to 9th. Sauce was a big factor, but the Jets improved their defense mostly by changing their defensive philosophy and went from 32nd to 4th. Point is, it happens quite a bit. 

how much of those gains were also accompanied by large investments into their defenses?  Some would argue that the only improvement we have made on that side of the ball was to the DC,  and while that should be an improvement,  we didnt really address any of the glaring needs from the last couple years.  I can see a jump in rankings,  but I dont see the improvement being enough to really change the outcome of the season or even many games.  This team IMO is still going to struggle and unless that horseshoe is still wedged firmly up KOCs ass,  the win loss record is likely going to regress from last year.

@"supafreak84" said:

You make it sound like improving from 31st to 20th is some unprecedented landmark achievement. That kind of improvement (and decline) is pretty standard in the NFL. 

Bengals improved from 26th to 18th and went to the Super Bowl. Chiefs improved from 27th to 11th and went to the Super Bowl by increasing their pressure rate and becoming one of the most blitz happy teams in the NFL. Last year the Ravens improved from 25th to 9th. Sauce was a big factor, but the Jets improved their defense mostly by changing their defensive philosophy and went from 32nd to 4th. Point is, it happens quite a bit. 

Those teams you mentioned invested in free agency and drafted to fix the problems on that side of the ball, so of course there are significant jumps in their defensive rankings. We didn't do any of that. We didn't sign a Trey Hendrickson in free agency, draft a Sauce Gardner or Geore Karlaftis. We went Dean Lowry. So while you paint a pretty picture, I don't see us improving significantly on defense.