GM Kwesi

@"MaroonBells" said:

@"JimmyinSD" said:

@"MaroonBells" said:

@"JimmyinSD" said:

@"MaroonBells" said:

@"purplefaithful" said: People like black and white. Good or bad. Competitive rebuild is too nebulous for most fans. 

This. Folks complain about the living in today and tomorrow as if that's a bad thing. But that's what they should be doing.

Unless you believe the team should be torn down, which I think is absurd, you’re literally trying to set up a dominant roster for the future, while remaining a playoff team.  

I believe that is called purgatory,  or better known as mediocrity.  Making the playoffs hasnt meant anything since they went to half the conference making the playoffs,  hell it meant little more before that even,  how often does a surprise team win a superbowl that hasnt undergone some major changes to really refocus their roster and add talent?  ( the giants a few years back comes to mind as the last)   I see "competitive rebuild" as ass covering for dragging out a decade of employment and not really every improving the teams chances for a Lombardi,  break some damn eggs and get to making omlets IMO,   but we are stuck for another year so buckle up for another exciting adventure.

I know you think the panacea to our misery is a tank and tear down, but I couldn't disagree more. In fact, I think we're far FAR more likely to win a Super Bowl in the next 2-4 years doing exactly what we're doing. 

I didnt say tank,  I said be more proactive with players that are likely not the long term answer,  like Cousin,  like Hunter, etc  if they have value now, but arent part of the long term plan as of now,  quit fucking around and move them for value or if they are in the plans,  get them under contract now for less than what it will cost next year,  or if they wont sign a decent deal, then see the previous path.  either way we will have a ton of cap space, but an empty closet and no additional draft capital to show for it.... and be picking in the middle to later part of each round.  I know that higher draft picks fail too,  but wouldnt you rather have your choice of the crop instead of letting 2/3 of the league get to pick ahead of you and still have the same expectation for success?

Jesus, Jimmy, you don't think there's just a teensy bit of value in waiting to see what kind of '23 they have before committing bajillions of dollars that will also have to work with the dollars going to JJ and TJ...and Darrisaw? Does Cousins improve a lot, a little or not at all in year two? What does Hall look like? Is Hunter a fit with Flores? Does someone like PJ2 or Carter emerge?

No, dammit! Shit or get off the pot! Sounds good in bites, but it's seldom the best approach. 

@"minny65" said:

@"comet52" said: Goessling pointed out that Kwesi frequently drops hints in pressers about "if we were doing it this other way", a clue that he is somewhat handcuffed due to the "super competitive" edict that comes out of Mark Wilf's mouth every time it opens.   

Organizations are as good as the people at the top and don't be confused - the owners dictate the direction the ship sails, not the g.m. or the coach or anyone else.   If you're happy with 10-7 and a playoff loss as a goal, then this ownership is perfect for you.   Their p.r. says "We wanna win so bad!" but their actions say something entirely different.  "We want to maximize profit and be good enough to keep the business revenue rolling."  That is goal #1 and always will be.  Getting you to buy in like "Oh my Super Bowl here we come" every year in August is their thing, and it works.   Fans buy the same story out of ownership year after year, just like Charlie Brown buys that Lucy won't put him on his ass this time around.

I disagree with this about our ownership.  They consistently spend to max CAP number and have since they took over.  I am not sure what else they can do to show that they want to win-it-all?

Oh and our training facility and stadium are consistently ranked as one of the best.

@"MaroonBells" said:

@"JimmyinSD" said:

@"MaroonBells" said:

@"purplefaithful" said: People like black and white. Good or bad. Competitive rebuild is too nebulous for most fans. 

This. Folks complain about the living in today and tomorrow as if that's a bad thing. But that's what they should be doing.

Unless you believe the team should be torn down, which I think is absurd, you’re literally trying to set up a dominant roster for the future, while remaining a playoff team.  

I believe that is called purgatory,  or better known as mediocrity.  Making the playoffs hasnt meant anything since they went to half the conference making the playoffs,  hell it meant little more before that even,  how often does a surprise team win a superbowl that hasnt undergone some major changes to really refocus their roster and add talent?  ( the giants a few years back comes to mind as the last)   I see "competitive rebuild" as ass covering for dragging out a decade of employment and not really every improving the teams chances for a Lombardi,  break some damn eggs and get to making omlets IMO,   but we are stuck for another year so buckle up for another exciting adventure.

I know you think the panacea to our misery is a tank and tear down, but I couldn't disagree more. In fact, I think we're far FAR more likely to win a Super Bowl in the next 2-4 years doing exactly what we're doing. 

@"JimmyinSD" said:

@"MaroonBells" said:

@"JimmyinSD" said:

@"MaroonBells" said:

@"JimmyinSD" said:

@"MaroonBells" said:

@"purplefaithful" said: People like black and white. Good or bad. Competitive rebuild is too nebulous for most fans. 

This. Folks complain about the living in today and tomorrow as if that's a bad thing. But that's what they should be doing.

Unless you believe the team should be torn down, which I think is absurd, you’re literally trying to set up a dominant roster for the future, while remaining a playoff team.  

I believe that is called purgatory,  or better known as mediocrity.  Making the playoffs hasnt meant anything since they went to half the conference making the playoffs,  hell it meant little more before that even,  how often does a surprise team win a superbowl that hasnt undergone some major changes to really refocus their roster and add talent?  ( the giants a few years back comes to mind as the last)   I see "competitive rebuild" as ass covering for dragging out a decade of employment and not really every improving the teams chances for a Lombardi,  break some damn eggs and get to making omlets IMO,   but we are stuck for another year so buckle up for another exciting adventure.

I know you think the panacea to our misery is a tank and tear down, but I couldn't disagree more. In fact, I think we're far FAR more likely to win a Super Bowl in the next 2-4 years doing exactly what we're doing. 

I didnt say tank,  I said be more proactive with players that are likely not the long term answer,  like Cousin,  like Hunter, etc  if they have value now, but arent part of the long term plan as of now,  quit fucking around and move them for value or if they are in the plans,  get them under contract now for less than what it will cost next year,  or if they wont sign a decent deal, then see the previous path.  either way we will have a ton of cap space, but an empty closet and no additional draft capital to show for it.... and be picking in the middle to later part of each round.  I know that higher draft picks fail too,  but wouldnt you rather have your choice of the crop instead of letting 2/3 of the league get to pick ahead of you and still have the same expectation for success?

Jesus, Jimmy, you don't think there's just a teensy bit of value in waiting to see what kind of '23 they have before committing bajillions of dollars that will also have to work with the dollars going to JJ and TJ...and Darrisaw? Does Cousins improve a lot, a little or not at all in year two? What does Hall look like? Is Hunter a fit with Flores? Does someone like PJ2 or Carter emerge?

No, dammit! Shit or get off the pot! Sounds good in bites, but it's seldom the best approach. 

no i dont, I dont think Cousins is the answer at QB,  and the longer we keep fucking around with a guy that cant move even a little bit in the pocket to help his OL,  and we cant afford to assemble the best OL to ever protect a statue pocket passer, then we are spinning our wheels.  I would have locked up JJ, TJ ( although its debatable as to whether I would have even traded for him in the first place as I would have been looking for a rebuild year or two with a new QB in the mix )  I dont see a future Lombardi with Cousins and as such I think they are wasting time right now,  so no,  I dont see the value in waiting unless the only goal is to sell hope/hype,  because I have seen a competitive rebuild for decades with this team and the results have never changed.

They need to fix their OL and DL first,  then try and put together a competitive O and D behind them,  nothing is going to change with the same ole OL and the same weak ass DL, scheme can only cover so many warts.  If we had a QB that moved the pocket around and was able to make the blitz miss... our OL might be sufficient,  if we had sticky DBs,  or a DL that could get consistent pressure,  our D might be sufficient,  as of right now its a shit show with really good receivers,  a super good guy with a hell of an arm for a QB,  and a DE that apparently thinks hes the best in the league,  but honestly is only top 1/4 for his position.

I think its great that you follow the team with those shaded glasses,  I used to be that way, I am just not that way anymore.  When there is something to get excited about, I will get excited,   I will still enjoy watching the team on game day ( sometimes)  but I am not going to get all worked up over nothing,  and thus far the last 2 years havent really accomplished anything besides getting rid of bad money, but that was hardly a challenge since its not like we traded those deals away and got something in return.  a couple questionable drafts,  made some obvious cuts,  and traded away a 2nd round pick for a nice TE.  

Coaches have improved and that showed on O last year,  I expect to see an improved D this year due to coaching, but its still not going to be enough to be that team in January that has the rest of the NFC,  let along NFL,  looking in fear at.

@"JimmyinSD" said:

@"MaroonBells" said:

@"purplefaithful" said: People like black and white. Good or bad. Competitive rebuild is too nebulous for most fans. 

This. Folks complain about the living in today and tomorrow as if that's a bad thing. But that's what they should be doing.

Unless you believe the team should be torn down, which I think is absurd, you’re literally trying to set up a dominant roster for the future, while remaining a playoff team.  

I believe that is called purgatory,  or better known as mediocrity.  Making the playoffs hasnt meant anything since they went to half the conference making the playoffs,  hell it meant little more before that even,  how often does a surprise team win a superbowl that hasnt undergone some major changes to really refocus their roster and add talent?  ( the giants a few years back comes to mind as the last)   I see "competitive rebuild" as ass covering for dragging out a decade of employment and not really every improving the teams chances for a Lombardi,  break some damn eggs and get to making omlets IMO,   but we are stuck for another year so buckle up for another exciting adventure.

Kwesi’s got this, no worries here…!  ;) :p  

@"comet52" said:

@"minny65" said:

@"comet52" said: Goessling pointed out that Kwesi frequently drops hints in pressers about "if we were doing it this other way", a clue that he is somewhat handcuffed due to the "super competitive" edict that comes out of Mark Wilf's mouth every time it opens.   

Organizations are as good as the people at the top and don't be confused - the owners dictate the direction the ship sails, not the g.m. or the coach or anyone else.   If you're happy with 10-7 and a playoff loss as a goal, then this ownership is perfect for you.   Their p.r. says "We wanna win so bad!" but their actions say something entirely different.  "We want to maximize profit and be good enough to keep the business revenue rolling."  That is goal #1 and always will be.  Getting you to buy in like "Oh my Super Bowl here we come" every year in August is their thing, and it works.   Fans buy the same story out of ownership year after year, just like Charlie Brown buys that Lucy won't put him on his ass this time around.

I disagree with this about our ownership.  They consistently spend to max CAP number and have since they took over.  I am not sure what else they can do to show that they want to win-it-all?

Oh and our training facility and stadium are consistently ranked as one of the best.

Wanting doesn't matter.  I want a million dollar salary.  Fans crediting owners for wanting a title is pretty hilarious imo - what NFL owner doesn't want a title?   Wow, what an accomplishment... they want one!

I could write a laundry list of their missteps along the way on the football side.  They don't impress me for a variety of reasons I've written about many times here and elsewhere, but I'm not up for rehashing all that; most fans think nice buildings = greatness.  I think genuinely competing for titles = greatness.   Haven't seen any of that in their 18 years here other than 2009.   The only hope at this point is the new KAM/KOC regime somehow gets to where Rick, Mike and the rest couldn't.  I'm optimistic they might overcome the inertial championship dampers that are the Wilfs, but one never knows.

@"purplefaithful" said:

@"JimmyinSD" said:

@"MaroonBells" said:

@"purplefaithful" said: People like black and white. Good or bad. Competitive rebuild is too nebulous for most fans. 

This. Folks complain about the living in today and tomorrow as if that's a bad thing. But that's what they should be doing.

Unless you believe the team should be torn down, which I think is absurd, you’re literally trying to set up a dominant roster for the future, while remaining a playoff team.  

I believe that is called purgatory,  or better known as mediocrity.  Making the playoffs hasnt meant anything since they went to half the conference making the playoffs,  hell it meant little more before that even,  how often does a surprise team win a superbowl that hasnt undergone some major changes to really refocus their roster and add talent?  ( the giants a few years back comes to mind as the last)   I see "competitive rebuild" as ass covering for dragging out a decade of employment and not really every improving the teams chances for a Lombardi,  break some damn eggs and get to making omlets IMO,   but we are stuck for another year so buckle up for another exciting adventure.

I get the fan frustration; I was 17 when the Vikings played the Raider for their last SB appearance of that century. 

But c'mon James; 13 wins, @ Buffalo, The Colts comeback of our lifetime, taking the Norris Crown from GB, How many last minute wins? 

Yah gotta admit, that was a fun ride. 

@"greediron" said:

@"MaroonBells" said:

@"JimmyinSD" said:

@"MaroonBells" said:

@"purplefaithful" said: People like black and white. Good or bad. Competitive rebuild is too nebulous for most fans. 

This. Folks complain about the living in today and tomorrow as if that's a bad thing. But that's what they should be doing.

Unless you believe the team should be torn down, which I think is absurd, you’re literally trying to set up a dominant roster for the future, while remaining a playoff team.  

I believe that is called purgatory,  or better known as mediocrity.  Making the playoffs hasnt meant anything since they went to half the conference making the playoffs,  hell it meant little more before that even,  how often does a surprise team win a superbowl that hasnt undergone some major changes to really refocus their roster and add talent?  ( the giants a few years back comes to mind as the last)   I see "competitive rebuild" as ass covering for dragging out a decade of employment and not really every improving the teams chances for a Lombardi,  break some damn eggs and get to making omlets IMO,   but we are stuck for another year so buckle up for another exciting adventure.

I know you think the panacea to our misery is a tank and tear down, but I couldn't disagree more. In fact, I think we're far FAR more likely to win a Super Bowl in the next 2-4 years doing exactly what we're doing. 

Or we could take the Lions/Bears approach.  Tear it down, hire a new coach every 3-4 years, a new GM every 8-9 years.  Perpetual suck.  The Lions superbowl of the last decade was beating the packers and making sure neither got to the playoffs.

@"JimmyinSD" said:

@"purplefaithful" said:

@"JimmyinSD" said:

@"MaroonBells" said:

@"purplefaithful" said: People like black and white. Good or bad. Competitive rebuild is too nebulous for most fans. 

This. Folks complain about the living in today and tomorrow as if that's a bad thing. But that's what they should be doing.

Unless you believe the team should be torn down, which I think is absurd, you’re literally trying to set up a dominant roster for the future, while remaining a playoff team.  

I believe that is called purgatory,  or better known as mediocrity.  Making the playoffs hasnt meant anything since they went to half the conference making the playoffs,  hell it meant little more before that even,  how often does a surprise team win a superbowl that hasnt undergone some major changes to really refocus their roster and add talent?  ( the giants a few years back comes to mind as the last)   I see "competitive rebuild" as ass covering for dragging out a decade of employment and not really every improving the teams chances for a Lombardi,  break some damn eggs and get to making omlets IMO,   but we are stuck for another year so buckle up for another exciting adventure.

I get the fan frustration; I was 17 when the Vikings played the Raider for their last SB appearance of that century. 

But c'mon James; 13 wins, @ Buffalo, The Colts comeback of our lifetime, taking the Norris Crown from GB, How many last minute wins? 

Yah gotta admit, that was a fun ride. 

You saw great wins,  I saw sheer dumb luck and embarrassing football.  I was at that Colts shitshow,  only thing worse than our worst half of football was the Colts even worse second half,  better game calling by indy and we dont win that one,  Buffalo took a fumbled snap in their own end zone,  again another mistake by the other team,   not something the Vikings forced or did right other than falling on the loose ball,  fun in the moment,  but in reality just really dumb luck,  we had 1 (?) Win last year that we just went out and took care of business ourselves IIRC,  the rest were struggles or catching a team in a really bad time,, and that to me wasn't a sign of a good team.  Some of those losses were flat out embarrassing and those were against the teams in the playoff contention at the end.

@"JimmyinSD" said:

@"greediron" said:

@"MaroonBells" said:

@"JimmyinSD" said:

@"MaroonBells" said:

@"purplefaithful" said: People like black and white. Good or bad. Competitive rebuild is too nebulous for most fans. 

This. Folks complain about the living in today and tomorrow as if that's a bad thing. But that's what they should be doing.

Unless you believe the team should be torn down, which I think is absurd, you’re literally trying to set up a dominant roster for the future, while remaining a playoff team.  

I believe that is called purgatory,  or better known as mediocrity.  Making the playoffs hasnt meant anything since they went to half the conference making the playoffs,  hell it meant little more before that even,  how often does a surprise team win a superbowl that hasnt undergone some major changes to really refocus their roster and add talent?  ( the giants a few years back comes to mind as the last)   I see "competitive rebuild" as ass covering for dragging out a decade of employment and not really every improving the teams chances for a Lombardi,  break some damn eggs and get to making omlets IMO,   but we are stuck for another year so buckle up for another exciting adventure.

I know you think the panacea to our misery is a tank and tear down, but I couldn't disagree more. In fact, I think we're far FAR more likely to win a Super Bowl in the next 2-4 years doing exactly what we're doing. 

Or we could take the Lions/Bears approach.  Tear it down, hire a new coach every 3-4 years, a new GM every 8-9 years.  Perpetual suck.  The Lions superbowl of the last decade was beating the packers and making sure neither got to the playoffs.

When was the last time the team took a big reset season or two?  Hardly in the realm of the teams doing it 2 or 3 times a decade.

Like the Vikings, I come out somewhere in the middle. I think KAM is doing a fine job at GM with the hand he's been dealt. Glass Booth has continued to be hurt but Evans looked solid when on the field. Cine was a freak injury that I'm hopeful he'll bounce back from.
A Jefferson extension needs to be done before things get ugly. When will that be? I'm not sure but I'll bet Kwesi has a feel for it. If we have to trade another top tier WR away like we did with Diggs, that's unforgivable. So I'm sure KAM knows he needs to get that deal done.
Cook? Yeah I'd have kept him around for another year if I had my druthers and they don't think the off-field stuff will affect his availability this season.
Our pass rush will likely stink again. Outside Hunter there's no proven QB killer in the front 7. Schemes can hide some warts but when teams go to hurry up and the hog mollies are sucking wind in the fourth quarter who is going to make a play? Also, the idea of Harry blitzing up the yin yang is fun but can the rest of our secondary hold up while Harry tries to get home?
Kirk... he's good but you can only ride a fun roller coaster for so long until you wanna hurl. Again, not sure when exactly we'll need the barfbag. Maybe this year, maybe not.
I see a 9ish win team in 2023 that will put us well out of the running for the top QBs so where does that leave us in 2024?
For me the goal for this franchise should be deep playoff run every year. The comps to the Bears (who have been to a SB much more recently than us) and Lions don't hold any weight. Being better than two terrible teams is like saying, "I don't have a drinking problem because my two friends drink more than I do!" That might be true but if you're falling down at the bar what is it worth?
Ultimately I'm at peace with what I think 2023 is going to be and I'm hoping for a big reset in 2024. If our draft doesn't include a QB next year then I'll be in panic mode. But I think it will. And in the meantime I'll enjoy the season like I always do and hope for the best. We have lots of talent on offense so at the very least it will be good for my typically Vikings-heavy fantasy team. So that should be fun.
The Wilfs... good owners who are definitely content with mediocrity or slightly above and anyone who thinks otherwise I will respectfully agree to disagree. There's a lot of circus owners in the NFL (Irsay, Jones, Davis, Kraft, Snyder ) so I'm glad we don't have to deal with that, but again, see the drinking analogy I posted above.
I'm ranting but at the end of the day, SKOL.
EDIT- Anyone know what came of the Dalton Risner visit? Was hoping to read that he'd signed by now.

@"comet52" said:

@"JimmyinSD" said:

@"greediron" said:

@"MaroonBells" said:

@"JimmyinSD" said:

@"MaroonBells" said:

@"purplefaithful" said: People like black and white. Good or bad. Competitive rebuild is too nebulous for most fans. 

This. Folks complain about the living in today and tomorrow as if that's a bad thing. But that's what they should be doing.

Unless you believe the team should be torn down, which I think is absurd, you’re literally trying to set up a dominant roster for the future, while remaining a playoff team.  

I believe that is called purgatory,  or better known as mediocrity.  Making the playoffs hasnt meant anything since they went to half the conference making the playoffs,  hell it meant little more before that even,  how often does a surprise team win a superbowl that hasnt undergone some major changes to really refocus their roster and add talent?  ( the giants a few years back comes to mind as the last)   I see "competitive rebuild" as ass covering for dragging out a decade of employment and not really every improving the teams chances for a Lombardi,  break some damn eggs and get to making omlets IMO,   but we are stuck for another year so buckle up for another exciting adventure.

I know you think the panacea to our misery is a tank and tear down, but I couldn't disagree more. In fact, I think we're far FAR more likely to win a Super Bowl in the next 2-4 years doing exactly what we're doing. 

Or we could take the Lions/Bears approach.  Tear it down, hire a new coach every 3-4 years, a new GM every 8-9 years.  Perpetual suck.  The Lions superbowl of the last decade was beating the packers and making sure neither got to the playoffs.

When was the last time the team took a big reset season or two?  Hardly in the realm of the teams doing it 2 or 3 times a decade.

There is some analytics work out there by Eric Eager that suggests it's easier to reach the top by bottoming out than by sitting in the middle year after year.  And I'm sure Kwesi knows this because he drops those hints about it that I mentioned earlier.  But fans seem to think that a teardown somehow equates to turning into a perpetually bad franchise.

Those franchises are perpetually bad because of bad ownership that can't hire the right people.   I'm not a fan of our owners but they have managed to hire relatively competent people who have kept the team in the middle for 18 years.   If Kwesi had free reign to tear this down and make a QBOTF the focus, I'd be all in.  But we are where we are with risk-averse ownership whose first priority is cash flow.

@"pattersaur" said:

Like the Vikings, I come out somewhere in the middle. I think KAM is doing a fine job at GM with the hand he's been dealt. Glass Booth has continued to be hurt but Evans looked solid when on the field. Cine was a freak injury that I'm hopeful he'll bounce back from. A Jefferson extension needs to be done before things get ugly. When will that be? I'm not sure but I'll bet Kwesi has a feel for it. If we have to trade another top tier WR away like we did with Diggs, that's unforgivable. So I'm sure KAM knows he needs to get that deal done. Cook? Yeah I'd have kept him around for another year if I had my druthers and they don't think the off-field stuff will affect his availability this season. Our pass rush will likely stink again. Outside Hunter there's no proven QB killer in the front 7. Schemes can hide some warts but when teams go to hurry up and the hog mollies are sucking wind in the fourth quarter who is going to make a play? Also, the idea of Harry blitzing up the yin yang is fun but can the rest of our secondary hold up while Harry tries to get home? Kirk... he's good but you can only ride a fun roller coaster for so long until you wanna hurl. Again, not sure when exactly we'll need the barfbag. Maybe this year, maybe not. I see a 9ish win team in 2023 that will put us well out of the running for the top QBs so where does that leave us in 2024? For me the goal for this franchise should be deep playoff run every year. The comps to the Bears (who have been to a SB much more recently than us) and Lions don't hold any weight. Being better than two terrible teams is like saying, "I don't have a drinking problem because my two friends drink more than I do!" That might be true but if you're falling down at the bar what is it worth? Ultimately I'm at peace with what I think 2023 is going to be and I'm hoping for a big reset in 2024. If our draft doesn't include a QB next year then I'll be in panic mode. But I think it will. And in the meantime I'll enjoy the season like I always do and hope for the best. We have lots of talent on offense so at the very least it will be good for my typically Vikings-heavy fantasy team. So that should be fun. The Wilfs... good owners who are definitely content with mediocrity or slightly above and anyone who thinks otherwise I will respectfully agree to disagree. There's a lot of circus owners in the NFL (Irsay, Jones, Davis, Kraft, Snyder ) so I'm glad we don't have to deal with that, but again, see the drinking analogy I posted above. I'm ranting but at the end of the day, SKOL. EDIT- Anyone know what came of the Dalton Risner visit? Was hoping to read that he'd signed by now.

The Wolves had been a disaster the entire time Taylor has owned them except for the season with Garnett and Sprewell.  Then it was back to being just another franchise with loyal but disappointed fans.

The Wild will they ever win a first round series in the playoffs?  They always seem to play well the first half of the season then fight just to make the playoffs.

Wash Rinse Repeat for all four franchises. 

@"MaroonBells" said:

@"JimmyinSD" said:

@"purplefaithful" said:

@"JimmyinSD" said:

@"MaroonBells" said:

@"purplefaithful" said: People like black and white. Good or bad. Competitive rebuild is too nebulous for most fans. 

This. Folks complain about the living in today and tomorrow as if that's a bad thing. But that's what they should be doing.

Unless you believe the team should be torn down, which I think is absurd, you’re literally trying to set up a dominant roster for the future, while remaining a playoff team.  

I believe that is called purgatory,  or better known as mediocrity.  Making the playoffs hasnt meant anything since they went to half the conference making the playoffs,  hell it meant little more before that even,  how often does a surprise team win a superbowl that hasnt undergone some major changes to really refocus their roster and add talent?  ( the giants a few years back comes to mind as the last)   I see "competitive rebuild" as ass covering for dragging out a decade of employment and not really every improving the teams chances for a Lombardi,  break some damn eggs and get to making omlets IMO,   but we are stuck for another year so buckle up for another exciting adventure.

I get the fan frustration; I was 17 when the Vikings played the Raider for their last SB appearance of that century. 

But c'mon James; 13 wins, @ Buffalo, The Colts comeback of our lifetime, taking the Norris Crown from GB, How many last minute wins? 

Yah gotta admit, that was a fun ride. 

You saw great wins,  I saw sheer dumb luck and embarrassing football.  I was at that Colts shitshow,  only thing worse than our worst half of football was the Colts even worse second half,  better game calling by indy and we dont win that one,  Buffalo took a fumbled snap in their own end zone,  again another mistake by the other team,   not something the Vikings forced or did right other than falling on the loose ball,  fun in the moment,  but in reality just really dumb luck,  we had 1 (?) Win last year that we just went out and took care of business ourselves IIRC,  the rest were struggles or catching a team in a really bad time,, and that to me wasn't a sign of a good team.  Some of those losses were flat out embarrassing and those were against the teams in the playoff contention at the end.

Dumb luck. No doubt the Vikings had their fair share last year. But since you were at the Colts game, you know the Colts did as well. They didn't earn that 33-0 lead with long drives. They were mostly unearned runs. Blocked punt for a TD. A pick six in which the receiver turned the wrong way. Weird shit. Dumb luck. 

Did you call it dumb luck the year before too? The year we lost 7 games by one score. 5 games in the final seconds. A mystery fumble by Cook in OT. Bizarre phantom penalties. A year that saw Hunter go down for the 2nd year in a row. A year in which we lost Harry, Cook, and Tomlinson to the Covid list. A year that saw us lose Thielen in the middle of the playoff race. Then Cousins in a must-win game against the Packers. Weird shit. Dumb luck. It goes both ways. 

@"JimmyinSD" said:

@"MaroonBells" said:

@"JimmyinSD" said:

@"purplefaithful" said:

@"JimmyinSD" said:

@"MaroonBells" said:

@"purplefaithful" said: People like black and white. Good or bad. Competitive rebuild is too nebulous for most fans. 

This. Folks complain about the living in today and tomorrow as if that's a bad thing. But that's what they should be doing.

Unless you believe the team should be torn down, which I think is absurd, you’re literally trying to set up a dominant roster for the future, while remaining a playoff team.  

I believe that is called purgatory,  or better known as mediocrity.  Making the playoffs hasnt meant anything since they went to half the conference making the playoffs,  hell it meant little more before that even,  how often does a surprise team win a superbowl that hasnt undergone some major changes to really refocus their roster and add talent?  ( the giants a few years back comes to mind as the last)   I see "competitive rebuild" as ass covering for dragging out a decade of employment and not really every improving the teams chances for a Lombardi,  break some damn eggs and get to making omlets IMO,   but we are stuck for another year so buckle up for another exciting adventure.

I get the fan frustration; I was 17 when the Vikings played the Raider for their last SB appearance of that century. 

But c'mon James; 13 wins, @ Buffalo, The Colts comeback of our lifetime, taking the Norris Crown from GB, How many last minute wins? 

Yah gotta admit, that was a fun ride. 

You saw great wins,  I saw sheer dumb luck and embarrassing football.  I was at that Colts shitshow,  only thing worse than our worst half of football was the Colts even worse second half,  better game calling by indy and we dont win that one,  Buffalo took a fumbled snap in their own end zone,  again another mistake by the other team,   not something the Vikings forced or did right other than falling on the loose ball,  fun in the moment,  but in reality just really dumb luck,  we had 1 (?) Win last year that we just went out and took care of business ourselves IIRC,  the rest were struggles or catching a team in a really bad time,, and that to me wasn't a sign of a good team.  Some of those losses were flat out embarrassing and those were against the teams in the playoff contention at the end.

Dumb luck. No doubt the Vikings had their fair share last year. But since you were at the Colts game, you know the Colts did as well. They didn't earn that 33-0 lead with long drives. They were mostly unearned runs. Blocked punt for a TD. A pick six in which the receiver turned the wrong way. Weird shit. Dumb luck. 

Did you call it dumb luck the year before too? The year we lost 7 games by one score. 5 games in the final seconds. A mystery fumble by Cook in OT. Bizarre phantom penalties. A year that saw Hunter go down for the 2nd year in a row. A year in which we lost Harry, Cook, and Tomlinson to the Covid list. A year that saw us lose Thielen in the middle of the playoff race. Then Cousins in a must-win game against the Packers. Weird shit. Dumb luck. It goes both ways. 

it wasnt dumb luck on the colts part... it was shit play on the Vikings part that led to that lead,  dumb luck is a fumbled QB exchange landing at the feet of EK in the endzone,  a ball thrown up for grabs and JJ able to make a  ridiculous catch, getting the phins on their 3rd sting QB,  the saints on the back up.  sometimes things just happen,  this team wasnt as good as their record indicated last year, I would say by at least 3 or 4 wins,  that team was a 9-10 win team,  and until I see otherwise this one looks to be the same against the opponents we will face IMO.

Its ok though,  you dont have to agree.

Dumb luck, good luck, bad luck...

Whichever kinda luck we want to paint it, the reality is winnings vs losing in the NFL is a razor thin margin. 

I think that's the kinda thinking cerebral QB's know and ascribe by - at least thats what Mahomes and Kirko were saying in QB on Netflix. 

Whatever the case with luck, we certainly were not as good as our win total would lead people to believe as evidenced by our mostly predictable first round loss at home to the Giants. And I think we can all safely assume the good fortune isn't likely to carry over to a second season just based on the law of averages. Where that leads us is anybody guess. Again I just think this smells like a .500 football team and that once again does not play into our favor when we need to identify and find a QBOTF 

@"supafreak84" said: Whatever the case with luck, we certainly were not as good as our win total would lead people to believe as evidenced by our mostly predictable first round loss at home to the Giants. And I think we can all safely assume the good fortune isn't likely to carry over to a second season just based on the law of averages. Where that leads us is anybody guess. Again I just think this smells like a .500 football team and that once again does not play into our favor when we need to identify and find a QBOTF 

And Zimmer was snakebite most years too...

I think most of us are not expecting a horseshoe up our asz's in 23, but we're waiting to see if the offense can take a next step, or not lost a step w/out Cook, and if the D can move to some level of respectability. 

Personally, I think 9 is the floor. 

@"greediron" said:

@"JimmyinSD" said:

@"MaroonBells" said:

@"JimmyinSD" said:

@"purplefaithful" said:

@"JimmyinSD" said:

@"MaroonBells" said:

@"purplefaithful" said: People like black and white. Good or bad. Competitive rebuild is too nebulous for most fans. 

This. Folks complain about the living in today and tomorrow as if that's a bad thing. But that's what they should be doing.

Unless you believe the team should be torn down, which I think is absurd, you’re literally trying to set up a dominant roster for the future, while remaining a playoff team.  

I believe that is called purgatory,  or better known as mediocrity.  Making the playoffs hasnt meant anything since they went to half the conference making the playoffs,  hell it meant little more before that even,  how often does a surprise team win a superbowl that hasnt undergone some major changes to really refocus their roster and add talent?  ( the giants a few years back comes to mind as the last)   I see "competitive rebuild" as ass covering for dragging out a decade of employment and not really every improving the teams chances for a Lombardi,  break some damn eggs and get to making omlets IMO,   but we are stuck for another year so buckle up for another exciting adventure.

I get the fan frustration; I was 17 when the Vikings played the Raider for their last SB appearance of that century. 

But c'mon James; 13 wins, @ Buffalo, The Colts comeback of our lifetime, taking the Norris Crown from GB, How many last minute wins? 

Yah gotta admit, that was a fun ride. 

You saw great wins,  I saw sheer dumb luck and embarrassing football.  I was at that Colts shitshow,  only thing worse than our worst half of football was the Colts even worse second half,  better game calling by indy and we dont win that one,  Buffalo took a fumbled snap in their own end zone,  again another mistake by the other team,   not something the Vikings forced or did right other than falling on the loose ball,  fun in the moment,  but in reality just really dumb luck,  we had 1 (?) Win last year that we just went out and took care of business ourselves IIRC,  the rest were struggles or catching a team in a really bad time,, and that to me wasn't a sign of a good team.  Some of those losses were flat out embarrassing and those were against the teams in the playoff contention at the end.

Dumb luck. No doubt the Vikings had their fair share last year. But since you were at the Colts game, you know the Colts did as well. They didn't earn that 33-0 lead with long drives. They were mostly unearned runs. Blocked punt for a TD. A pick six in which the receiver turned the wrong way. Weird shit. Dumb luck. 

Did you call it dumb luck the year before too? The year we lost 7 games by one score. 5 games in the final seconds. A mystery fumble by Cook in OT. Bizarre phantom penalties. A year that saw Hunter go down for the 2nd year in a row. A year in which we lost Harry, Cook, and Tomlinson to the Covid list. A year that saw us lose Thielen in the middle of the playoff race. Then Cousins in a must-win game against the Packers. Weird shit. Dumb luck. It goes both ways. 

it wasnt dumb luck on the colts part... it was shit play on the Vikings part that led to that lead,  dumb luck is a fumbled QB exchange landing at the feet of EK in the endzone,  a ball thrown up for grabs and JJ able to make a  ridiculous catch, getting the phins on their 3rd sting QB,  the saints on the back up.  sometimes things just happen,  this team wasnt as good as their record indicated last year, I would say by at least 3 or 4 wins,  that team was a 9-10 win team,  and until I see otherwise this one looks to be the same against the opponents we will face IMO.

Its ok though,  you dont have to agree.

The best catch ever wasn't dumb luck.  You put it up there for your best player to make a play and he did.  There was some luck involved, but not dumb luck.  Allen fumbling the snap wasn't dumb luck either.  Harrison Phillips made that play by drawing the centers focus right before the snap and then EK saw it and went for it.

And as MB said, the previous year was lots of bad dumb luck.