Flores D Comment

I guess...Did our personnel on defense to get pressure and not give up the run suddenly become a lot better?

@"mgobluevikes" said: I guess...Did our personnel on defense to get pressure and not give up the run suddenly become a lot better?

By all accounts, it will be an entirely different strategy.  Donatell basically sat there in coverage and
hoped his DL/Edge players got home whereas Flores is one of the most heavy
blitzers in the league and will try to manufacture pressure with well designed
blitzes.  I also think there’s a pretty
big difference in how good of a coach Flores is compared to Donatell in terms
of teaching his guys to know what they’re supposed to be doing without making
mistakes.

@"medaille" said:

@"mgobluevikes" said: I guess...Did our personnel on defense to get pressure and not give up the run suddenly become a lot better?

By all accounts, it will be an entirely different strategy.  Donatell basically sat there in coverage and
hoped his DL/Edge players got home whereas Flores is one of the most heavy
blitzers in the league and will try to manufacture pressure with well designed
blitzes.  I also think there’s a pretty
big difference in how good of a coach Flores is compared to Donatell in terms
of teaching his guys to know what they’re supposed to be doing without making
mistakes.

I understand you want to generate pressure, but Can the players fit the scheme to bring more pressure?

Kendricks could get there, but hes gone. Both of our Edges could get there, but we are a man down. Other than Dirty Harry (who USED TO be able to get home) I have no clue if any of our DBs can get home.

I get that Flores want to blitz, just not sure we have the guys in place yet.

@"Vanguard83" said: I understand you want to generate pressure, but Can the players fit the scheme to bring more pressure?

Kendricks could get there, but hes gone. Both of our Edges could get there, but we are a man down. Other than Dirty Harry (who USED TO be able to get home) I have no clue if any of our DBs can get home.

I get that Flores want to blitz, just not sure we have the guys in place yet.

The key is having versatility on D so you can disguise when pressure is coming in a blitz situation. One play, the D looks like this....the next play, the D looks the same but here comes the pressure from 2 different locations. Any play can bring pressure in a situation where you blitz because you are taking a risk and exposing an area by bring that heat. If the D line can't bring some pressure on their own, then you have to get creative. The key is being aggressive, not passively watching your D get annihilated.

@"Vanguard83" said: I understand you want to generate pressure, but Can the players fit the scheme to bring more pressure?

Kendricks could get there, but hes gone. Both of our Edges could get there, but we are a man down. Other than Dirty Harry (who USED TO be able to get home) I have no clue if any of our DBs can get home.

I get that Flores want to blitz, just not sure we have the guys in place yet.

I don't think blitzing is like hitting a 90 MPH fastball in that there only a select few in the world who can do it. I think we'll see Harry, Cine, Asamoah and Murphy be the most frequent blitzers in this defense. Murphy did a fair amount of blitzing in Arizona, and personally I think Asamoah will make everyone forget about Kendricks. 

I beg to differ---anyone can blitz but to what effect.  That's the big difference in that some get swallowed up in the first thing that tries to disrupt them while others learn the swim move,chop,duck through and just speed at the right time to get there.

The biggest difference needs to be getting the DBs to play in the same area code of the line of scrimmage, the QB didn't need a lot of time to find an open WR last year.  

While I do agree that there’s a noticeable difference in the
level of quality of players who blitz, but I think if you’re looking at your
weakest players and trying to figure out how to minimize them getting exploited
or doing the wrong thing, I think that “Run through this gap and go get ‘em” is
a much easier job than “Play match zone coverage against whichever player(s)
and route concepts the offense attacks your area with”.  I think we can clearly look back at Zimmers
tenure and remember all the times a well designed blitz where the OLine is
confused and leaves guys unblocked.  You
can’t really hide bad starters but if you can help them 5-10% of the plays that
adds up over the season.

Seeing quotes from OTAs yesterday from players like CD that said last year's D didn't do a good job of preparing the offense for opponents. Cine said this is his kind of D, aggressive with attitude. I knew shit would trickle out this year about Donatell's defensive style last year from players. It is what it is, learning moment for KOC. 

@"StickyBun" said: Seeing quotes from OTAs yesterday from players like CD that said last year's D didn't do a good job of preparing the offense for opponents. Cine said this is his kind of D, aggressive with attitude. I knew shit would trickle out this year about Donatell's defensive style last year from players. It is what it is, learning moment for KOC. 

Player interviews can be ridiculous sometimes. Rarely do you ever see them say anything real. But man, when they were asked about the defense, every one of them lit up. 

Don't know if Flo's D will be better, but it sounds like it's going to be completely different. Like 180°.

@"StickyBun" said: Seeing quotes from OTAs yesterday from players like CD that said last year's D didn't do a good job of preparing the offense for opponents. Cine said this is his kind of D, aggressive with attitude. I knew shit would trickle out this year about Donatell's defensive style last year from players. It is what it is, learning moment for KOC. 

isnt it the usual trend? New coach/regime good old one not so much. i bet i can find stories of players raving about Donatell’s defense over Zimmer’s

@"mblack" said:

@"StickyBun" said: Seeing quotes from OTAs yesterday from players like CD that said last year's D didn't do a good job of preparing the offense for opponents. Cine said this is his kind of D, aggressive with attitude. I knew shit would trickle out this year about Donatell's defensive style last year from players. It is what it is, learning moment for KOC. 

isnt it the usual trend? New coach/regime good old one not so much. i bet i can find stories of players raving about Donatell’s defense over Zimmer’s

@"medaille" said: While I do agree that there’s a noticeable difference in the level of quality of players who blitz, but I think if you’re looking at your weakest players and trying to figure out how to minimize them getting exploited or doing the wrong thing, I think that “Run through this gap and go get ‘em” is a much easier job than “Play match zone coverage against whichever player(s) and route concepts the offense attacks your area with”.  I think we can clearly look back at Zimmers tenure and remember all the times a well designed blitz where the OLine is confused and leaves guys unblocked.  You can’t really hide bad starters but if you can help them 5-10% of the plays that adds up over the season.

I think that is more of what makes a  blitz effective than having uber talent coming thru the line.

I remember the days of Greenway and such blitzing right into opposing linemen because Frazier couldn't design a blitz package to save his film.  Zimmer innovated and could confuse the protection scheme.  I remember BRob talking about during the first series or two, his job was to learn the protection calls to set up the rest of the game for the D.  Those were the days.

@"mblack" said:

@"StickyBun" said: Seeing quotes from OTAs yesterday from players like CD that said last year's D didn't do a good job of preparing the offense for opponents. Cine said this is his kind of D, aggressive with attitude. I knew shit would trickle out this year about Donatell's defensive style last year from players. It is what it is, learning moment for KOC. 

isnt it the usual trend? New coach/regime good old one not so much. i bet i can find stories of players raving about Donatell’s defense over Zimmer’s

I've said it before and will say it again--coaching matters, moreso in the NFL than other sports.  Remember when Mike Tomlin took a crap Les Frazier defense and made them  respectable the very next year?  

Ed Donatell was an incompetent.  If the product on the field wasn't proof enough, listening to him spout b.s. out of both sides of his mouth at his pressers sealed the deal.

Going from that to competency, even on a squad with a lot of holes and question marks, will make a positive difference.

Flores and Donatell coordinate defenses very differently.

So, basically most all the game tape of the Vikings defensive tendencies from  2022 is useless.

That gives Flores an advantage he can exploit.

Even with personnel losses,  Flores is gonna kill it.

 

@"comet52" said: I've said it before and will say it again--coaching matters, moreso in the NFL than other sports.  Remember when Mike Tomlin took a crap Les Frazier defense and made them  respectable the very next year?  

Ed Donatell was an incompetent.  If the product on the field wasn't proof enough, listening to him spout b.s. out of both sides of his mouth at his pressers sealed the deal.

Going from that to competency, even on a squad with a lot of holes and question marks, will make a positive difference.

You got your timeline a bit confused there.  Tomlin was before Frazier.

https://www.si.com/fannation/bringmethesports/vikings/vikings-brian-flores-is-on-the-hunt-for-defensive-identity

I don't understand why this is such a foreign concept?  Coaches get so stuck on "their" scheme that they want to force players out of position.  Sounds like Flores might be a great fit with KOC.

"You would think that the defensive players would be asked to mold to their go-get-’em coordinator’s scheme but Flores isn’t exactly looking at it that way. He wants the players’ skills to meld with his style to create their own unique defense, not just manufacture it by throwing heat."

@"greediron" said:

@"comet52" said: I've said it before and will say it again--coaching matters, moreso in the NFL than other sports.  Remember when Mike Tomlin took a crap Les Frazier defense and made them  respectable the very next year?  

Ed Donatell was an incompetent.  If the product on the field wasn't proof enough, listening to him spout b.s. out of both sides of his mouth at his pressers sealed the deal.

Going from that to competency, even on a squad with a lot of holes and question marks, will make a positive difference.

You got your timeline a bit confused there.  Tomlin was before Frazier.