4,000 yard passers

@"MaroonBells" said:

@"supafreak84" said:

@"MaroonBells" said:

@"supafreak84" said:

@"MaroonBells" said:

@"supafreak84" said:

@"JimmyinSD" said: How many QBs have had a JJ, a 17 game season,  and pass friendly offense in a game that strongly favors the passing game more now than ever in he history of the game?  I'm not saying this as a knock on guys that have done it recently,  but the game has changed drastically in the favor of the QB the last couple years.  Almost 1/3 of the QBs in the league passed for over 4k yards the last 2 seasons.

As far as the Jets ineptitude,  well they aren't exactly the role model for how to run a franchise,  been plenty of WTFs from that crew over the last 50 years.

And let's not forget for all of the yards Kirk has thrown for and for all the good things, he still was tied last season for the second most INT's in the league (14, the leader had 15) and that check down on 4th and 8 in the playoffs with our season on the line was beyond awful. Now he's 35 and wants the team to belly up to the bar once again in the form of another short term, fully guaranteed contract where he calls the shots. We will be taking cap hits through 2027 on his money that's already been reshuffled in the latest version of "kicking the can down the road." Cousins is not irreplaceable, and my hope is the organization doesn't choose to continue to be held hostage by the contract demands of Cousins who we always seem to cave to because, well, "there's nobody better" we can acquire. It's time for this organization to take a swing at a QB 

KOC wanted Cousins to take more chances with the football. It resulted in some pretty dramatic comeback victories. It also resulted in more interceptions. We all expected that. What we didn't expect was just how good Cousins would become with the game on the line. 

So, no, the interception total is not an indication of decline. A new offense and a mandate to take more chances is going to increase that total. But his TD/INT ratio typically ranks among the best. The year before he had the 2nd best interception percentage in the league. 

That's one way to spin it, and the 4th and 8 check down just led into the national narrative that the guy is a choke artist who folds in big games. So he didn't end his season with people thinking "how good he was with the game on the line." Fair or not, that's the perception and the lasting image on his season. 

Only among people who don't know any better. Why should we care what stupid people think? 

I shouldn't have to say this, but everything must be taken into context. Last year, Cousins broke an NFL record for come-from-behind victories. His game-winning drives ranked 3rd in the NFL, behind only Mahomes and Hurts. Over the last 5 seasons, no QB in the NFL has more 4th quarter TDs than Cousins. And it's not really that close. And even if you limit the TDs to margin within 1 score, Cousins finishes on top. IOW, not garbage time.

If you're going to knock him for 1 pass among 643, then do that for all of them. You'll see a lot of boneheaded passes by a lot of very good QBs, including the two above. And honestly, was that pass really that bad? He was getting intense pressure and he put the ball in play instead of taking the sack. 

Stats can be used to paint a hundred different pictures. But they also help illuminate the truth because, unlike people, numbers have no biases.

You mean like NFL MVP voters? You outline all this amazing stuff he did last year, yet he didn't even finish in the top 15 in MVP voting where nine, that's right nine QB's received votes including Geno Smith and Tua. How does someone who had such an incredible season as you outlined not even finish in the top 15 in MVP voting or have his team not bend over backwards to retain him on an extension? The real answer is because for all the stats he puts up, Kirk Cousins is going to be Kirk Cousins at the end of the day. 

Undoubtedly because he threw too many interceptions in a new offense and a mandate to take more chances. I think JJ plays a part in that too, as does the fact that the team didn't go far in the playoffs. We all know the reason for that. And we all know it wasn't Cousins. Again, no QB in the playoffs last year played better than Cousins did against the Giants.

Even still, there were a handful of media folks, including Kyle Brandt and Michael Irvin, who not only argued that he should be considered, but that he should've won it. 

@"MaroonBells" said:

@"wiviking" said:

@"supafreak84" said:

@"MaroonBells" said:

Every conversation with a Cousins hater goes something like this....A: “Cousins doesn’t throw deep! He’s a Checkdown Charlie!!  B: “Over the last five years, no QB has more TD passes over 25 yards than Kirk Cousins. In fact, since he became a starter in 2015, no QB in the NFL has more TD passes over 40 yards than Kirk Cousins.”

A: “Oh sure Cousins is a stat machine, but he doesn’t win, he isn’t clutch.”

B: “Cousins won 13 games and broke the NFL record for most come from behind victories and was 3rd in the NFL in game winning drives. In fact, only two active QBs have more wins than Cousins” 

A: “OK, but he’s not worth his salary!”

B: “Cousins APY salary ranks 11th. His total contract value ranks 18th. His cap hit ranks 9th. And his % of salary cap ranks 11th”

A: “But….but….he didn’t win MVP!!”

B: 

@"MaroonBells" said:

@"wiviking" said:

@"supafreak84" said:

@"MaroonBells" said:

@"supafreak84" said:

@"JimmyinSD" said: How many QBs have had a JJ, a 17 game season,  and pass friendly offense in a game that strongly favors the passing game more now than ever in he history of the game?  I'm not saying this as a knock on guys that have done it recently,  but the game has changed drastically in the favor of the QB the last couple years.  Almost 1/3 of the QBs in the league passed for over 4k yards the last 2 seasons.

As far as the Jets ineptitude,  well they aren't exactly the role model for how to run a franchise,  been plenty of WTFs from that crew over the last 50 years.

And let's not forget for all of the yards Kirk has thrown for and for all the good things, he still was tied last season for the second most INT's in the league (14, the leader had 15) and that check down on 4th and 8 in the playoffs with our season on the line was beyond awful. Now he's 35 and wants the team to belly up to the bar once again in the form of another short term, fully guaranteed contract where he calls the shots. We will be taking cap hits through 2027 on his money that's already been reshuffled in the latest version of "kicking the can down the road." Cousins is not irreplaceable, and my hope is the organization doesn't choose to continue to be held hostage by the contract demands of Cousins who we always seem to cave to because, well, "there's nobody better" we can acquire. It's time for this organization to take a swing at a QB 

KOC wanted Cousins to take more chances with the football. It resulted in some pretty dramatic comeback victories. It also resulted in more interceptions. We all expected that. What we didn't expect was just how good Cousins would become with the game on the line. 

So, no, the interception total is not an indication of decline. A new offense and a mandate to take more chances is going to increase that total. But his TD/INT ratio typically ranks among the best. The year before he had the 2nd best interception percentage in the league. 

That's one way to spin it, and the 4th and 8 check down just led into the national narrative that the guy is a choke artist who folds in big games. So he didn't end his season with people thinking "how good he was with the game on the line." Fair or not, that's the perception and the lasting image on his season. 

The 4th and 8 thing has gotten pretty old. Had he not thrown it and taken the sack, it would have been, why didn't he unload it to one of his playmakers and let them have a chance....

Every conversation with a Cousins hater goes something like this....A: “Cousins doesn’t throw deep! He’s a Checkdown Charlie!! 
B: “Over the last five years, no QB has more TD passes over 25 yards than Kirk Cousins. In fact, since he became a starter in 2015, no QB in the NFL has more TD passes over 40 yards than Kirk Cousins.”

A: “Oh sure Cousins is a stat machine, but he doesn’t win, he isn’t clutch.”

B: “Cousins won 13 games and broke the NFL record for most come from behind victories and was 3rd in the NFL in game winning drives. In fact, only two active QBs have more wins than Cousins” 

A: “OK, but he’s not worth his salary!”

B: “Cousins APY salary ranks 11th. His total contract value ranks 18th. His cap hit ranks 9th. And his % of salary cap ranks 11th”

A: “But….but….he didn’t win MVP!!”

B: 

@"MaroonBells" said:

@"supafreak84" said:

@"MaroonBells" said:

@"supafreak84" said:

@"MaroonBells" said:

@"supafreak84" said:

@"JimmyinSD" said: How many QBs have had a JJ, a 17 game season,  and pass friendly offense in a game that strongly favors the passing game more now than ever in he history of the game?  I'm not saying this as a knock on guys that have done it recently,  but the game has changed drastically in the favor of the QB the last couple years.  Almost 1/3 of the QBs in the league passed for over 4k yards the last 2 seasons.

As far as the Jets ineptitude,  well they aren't exactly the role model for how to run a franchise,  been plenty of WTFs from that crew over the last 50 years.

And let's not forget for all of the yards Kirk has thrown for and for all the good things, he still was tied last season for the second most INT's in the league (14, the leader had 15) and that check down on 4th and 8 in the playoffs with our season on the line was beyond awful. Now he's 35 and wants the team to belly up to the bar once again in the form of another short term, fully guaranteed contract where he calls the shots. We will be taking cap hits through 2027 on his money that's already been reshuffled in the latest version of "kicking the can down the road." Cousins is not irreplaceable, and my hope is the organization doesn't choose to continue to be held hostage by the contract demands of Cousins who we always seem to cave to because, well, "there's nobody better" we can acquire. It's time for this organization to take a swing at a QB 

KOC wanted Cousins to take more chances with the football. It resulted in some pretty dramatic comeback victories. It also resulted in more interceptions. We all expected that. What we didn't expect was just how good Cousins would become with the game on the line. 

So, no, the interception total is not an indication of decline. A new offense and a mandate to take more chances is going to increase that total. But his TD/INT ratio typically ranks among the best. The year before he had the 2nd best interception percentage in the league. 

That's one way to spin it, and the 4th and 8 check down just led into the national narrative that the guy is a choke artist who folds in big games. So he didn't end his season with people thinking "how good he was with the game on the line." Fair or not, that's the perception and the lasting image on his season. 

Only among people who don't know any better. Why should we care what stupid people think? 

I shouldn't have to say this, but everything must be taken into context. Last year, Cousins broke an NFL record for come-from-behind victories. His game-winning drives ranked 3rd in the NFL, behind only Mahomes and Hurts. Over the last 5 seasons, no QB in the NFL has more 4th quarter TDs than Cousins. And it's not really that close. And even if you limit the TDs to margin within 1 score, Cousins finishes on top. IOW, not garbage time.

If you're going to knock him for 1 pass among 643, then do that for all of them. You'll see a lot of boneheaded passes by a lot of very good QBs, including the two above. And honestly, was that pass really that bad? He was getting intense pressure and he put the ball in play instead of taking the sack. 

Stats can be used to paint a hundred different pictures. But they also help illuminate the truth because, unlike people, numbers have no biases.

You mean like NFL MVP voters? You outline all this amazing stuff he did last year, yet he didn't even finish in the top 15 in MVP voting where nine, that's right nine QB's received votes including Geno Smith and Tua. How does someone who had such an incredible season as you outlined not even finish in the top 15 in MVP voting or have his team not bend over backwards to retain him on an extension? The real answer is because for all the stats he puts up, Kirk Cousins is going to be Kirk Cousins at the end of the day. 

Undoubtedly because he threw too many interceptions in a new offense and a mandate to take more chances. I think JJ plays a part in that too, as does the fact that the team didn't go far in the playoffs. We all know the reason for that. And we all know it wasn't Cousins. Again, no QB in the playoffs last year played better than Cousins did against the Giants.

Even still, there were a handful of media folks, including Kyle Brandt and Michael Irvin, who not only argued that he should be considered, but that he should've won it. 

@"supafreak84" said:

@"MaroonBells" said:

@"supafreak84" said:

@"MaroonBells" said:

@"supafreak84" said:

@"MaroonBells" said:

@"supafreak84" said:

@"JimmyinSD" said: How many QBs have had a JJ, a 17 game season,  and pass friendly offense in a game that strongly favors the passing game more now than ever in he history of the game?  I'm not saying this as a knock on guys that have done it recently,  but the game has changed drastically in the favor of the QB the last couple years.  Almost 1/3 of the QBs in the league passed for over 4k yards the last 2 seasons.

As far as the Jets ineptitude,  well they aren't exactly the role model for how to run a franchise,  been plenty of WTFs from that crew over the last 50 years.

And let's not forget for all of the yards Kirk has thrown for and for all the good things, he still was tied last season for the second most INT's in the league (14, the leader had 15) and that check down on 4th and 8 in the playoffs with our season on the line was beyond awful. Now he's 35 and wants the team to belly up to the bar once again in the form of another short term, fully guaranteed contract where he calls the shots. We will be taking cap hits through 2027 on his money that's already been reshuffled in the latest version of "kicking the can down the road." Cousins is not irreplaceable, and my hope is the organization doesn't choose to continue to be held hostage by the contract demands of Cousins who we always seem to cave to because, well, "there's nobody better" we can acquire. It's time for this organization to take a swing at a QB 

KOC wanted Cousins to take more chances with the football. It resulted in some pretty dramatic comeback victories. It also resulted in more interceptions. We all expected that. What we didn't expect was just how good Cousins would become with the game on the line. 

So, no, the interception total is not an indication of decline. A new offense and a mandate to take more chances is going to increase that total. But his TD/INT ratio typically ranks among the best. The year before he had the 2nd best interception percentage in the league. 

That's one way to spin it, and the 4th and 8 check down just led into the national narrative that the guy is a choke artist who folds in big games. So he didn't end his season with people thinking "how good he was with the game on the line." Fair or not, that's the perception and the lasting image on his season. 

Only among people who don't know any better. Why should we care what stupid people think? 

I shouldn't have to say this, but everything must be taken into context. Last year, Cousins broke an NFL record for come-from-behind victories. His game-winning drives ranked 3rd in the NFL, behind only Mahomes and Hurts. Over the last 5 seasons, no QB in the NFL has more 4th quarter TDs than Cousins. And it's not really that close. And even if you limit the TDs to margin within 1 score, Cousins finishes on top. IOW, not garbage time.

If you're going to knock him for 1 pass among 643, then do that for all of them. You'll see a lot of boneheaded passes by a lot of very good QBs, including the two above. And honestly, was that pass really that bad? He was getting intense pressure and he put the ball in play instead of taking the sack. 

Stats can be used to paint a hundred different pictures. But they also help illuminate the truth because, unlike people, numbers have no biases.

You mean like NFL MVP voters? You outline all this amazing stuff he did last year, yet he didn't even finish in the top 15 in MVP voting where nine, that's right nine QB's received votes including Geno Smith and Tua. How does someone who had such an incredible season as you outlined not even finish in the top 15 in MVP voting or have his team not bend over backwards to retain him on an extension? The real answer is because for all the stats he puts up, Kirk Cousins is going to be Kirk Cousins at the end of the day. 

Undoubtedly because he threw too many interceptions in a new offense and a mandate to take more chances. I think JJ plays a part in that too, as does the fact that the team didn't go far in the playoffs. We all know the reason for that. And we all know it wasn't Cousins. Again, no QB in the playoffs last year played better than Cousins did against the Giants.

Even still, there were a handful of media folks, including Kyle Brandt and Michael Irvin, who not only argued that he should be considered, but that he should've won it. 

A "mandate?" I hardly think turning the ball over was what KOC had in mind as turnovers are the biggest precursors to losing football games. But you are right in that Cousins wasn't to blame for the loss to the Giants, unfortunately for him on 4th and 8 with our season on the line he checked it down. If there was ever a :mandate" or a time to take a chance....that was it, and Kirk folded. 

@"supafreak84" said:

@"MaroonBells" said:

@"supafreak84" said:

@"MaroonBells" said:

@"supafreak84" said:

@"MaroonBells" said:

@"supafreak84" said:

@"JimmyinSD" said: How many QBs have had a JJ, a 17 game season,  and pass friendly offense in a game that strongly favors the passing game more now than ever in he history of the game?  I'm not saying this as a knock on guys that have done it recently,  but the game has changed drastically in the favor of the QB the last couple years.  Almost 1/3 of the QBs in the league passed for over 4k yards the last 2 seasons.

As far as the Jets ineptitude,  well they aren't exactly the role model for how to run a franchise,  been plenty of WTFs from that crew over the last 50 years.

And let's not forget for all of the yards Kirk has thrown for and for all the good things, he still was tied last season for the second most INT's in the league (14, the leader had 15) and that check down on 4th and 8 in the playoffs with our season on the line was beyond awful. Now he's 35 and wants the team to belly up to the bar once again in the form of another short term, fully guaranteed contract where he calls the shots. We will be taking cap hits through 2027 on his money that's already been reshuffled in the latest version of "kicking the can down the road." Cousins is not irreplaceable, and my hope is the organization doesn't choose to continue to be held hostage by the contract demands of Cousins who we always seem to cave to because, well, "there's nobody better" we can acquire. It's time for this organization to take a swing at a QB 

KOC wanted Cousins to take more chances with the football. It resulted in some pretty dramatic comeback victories. It also resulted in more interceptions. We all expected that. What we didn't expect was just how good Cousins would become with the game on the line. 

So, no, the interception total is not an indication of decline. A new offense and a mandate to take more chances is going to increase that total. But his TD/INT ratio typically ranks among the best. The year before he had the 2nd best interception percentage in the league. 

That's one way to spin it, and the 4th and 8 check down just led into the national narrative that the guy is a choke artist who folds in big games. So he didn't end his season with people thinking "how good he was with the game on the line." Fair or not, that's the perception and the lasting image on his season. 

Only among people who don't know any better. Why should we care what stupid people think? 

I shouldn't have to say this, but everything must be taken into context. Last year, Cousins broke an NFL record for come-from-behind victories. His game-winning drives ranked 3rd in the NFL, behind only Mahomes and Hurts. Over the last 5 seasons, no QB in the NFL has more 4th quarter TDs than Cousins. And it's not really that close. And even if you limit the TDs to margin within 1 score, Cousins finishes on top. IOW, not garbage time.

If you're going to knock him for 1 pass among 643, then do that for all of them. You'll see a lot of boneheaded passes by a lot of very good QBs, including the two above. And honestly, was that pass really that bad? He was getting intense pressure and he put the ball in play instead of taking the sack. 

Stats can be used to paint a hundred different pictures. But they also help illuminate the truth because, unlike people, numbers have no biases.

You mean like NFL MVP voters? You outline all this amazing stuff he did last year, yet he didn't even finish in the top 15 in MVP voting where nine, that's right nine QB's received votes including Geno Smith and Tua. How does someone who had such an incredible season as you outlined not even finish in the top 15 in MVP voting or have his team not bend over backwards to retain him on an extension? The real answer is because for all the stats he puts up, Kirk Cousins is going to be Kirk Cousins at the end of the day. 

Undoubtedly because he threw too many interceptions in a new offense and a mandate to take more chances. I think JJ plays a part in that too, as does the fact that the team didn't go far in the playoffs. We all know the reason for that. And we all know it wasn't Cousins. Again, no QB in the playoffs last year played better than Cousins did against the Giants.

Even still, there were a handful of media folks, including Kyle Brandt and Michael Irvin, who not only argued that he should be considered, but that he should've won it. 

A "mandate?" I hardly think turning the ball over was what KOC had in mind as turnovers are the biggest precursors to losing football games. But you are right in that Cousins wasn't to blame for the loss to the Giants, unfortunately for him on 4th and 8 with our season on the line he checked it down. If there was ever a :mandate" or a time to take a chance....that was it, and Kirk folded. 

@"greediron" said:

@"supafreak84" said:

@"MaroonBells" said:

@"supafreak84" said:

@"MaroonBells" said:

@"supafreak84" said:

@"MaroonBells" said:

@"supafreak84" said:

@"JimmyinSD" said: How many QBs have had a JJ, a 17 game season,  and pass friendly offense in a game that strongly favors the passing game more now than ever in he history of the game?  I'm not saying this as a knock on guys that have done it recently,  but the game has changed drastically in the favor of the QB the last couple years.  Almost 1/3 of the QBs in the league passed for over 4k yards the last 2 seasons.

As far as the Jets ineptitude,  well they aren't exactly the role model for how to run a franchise,  been plenty of WTFs from that crew over the last 50 years.

And let's not forget for all of the yards Kirk has thrown for and for all the good things, he still was tied last season for the second most INT's in the league (14, the leader had 15) and that check down on 4th and 8 in the playoffs with our season on the line was beyond awful. Now he's 35 and wants the team to belly up to the bar once again in the form of another short term, fully guaranteed contract where he calls the shots. We will be taking cap hits through 2027 on his money that's already been reshuffled in the latest version of "kicking the can down the road." Cousins is not irreplaceable, and my hope is the organization doesn't choose to continue to be held hostage by the contract demands of Cousins who we always seem to cave to because, well, "there's nobody better" we can acquire. It's time for this organization to take a swing at a QB 

KOC wanted Cousins to take more chances with the football. It resulted in some pretty dramatic comeback victories. It also resulted in more interceptions. We all expected that. What we didn't expect was just how good Cousins would become with the game on the line. 

So, no, the interception total is not an indication of decline. A new offense and a mandate to take more chances is going to increase that total. But his TD/INT ratio typically ranks among the best. The year before he had the 2nd best interception percentage in the league. 

That's one way to spin it, and the 4th and 8 check down just led into the national narrative that the guy is a choke artist who folds in big games. So he didn't end his season with people thinking "how good he was with the game on the line." Fair or not, that's the perception and the lasting image on his season. 

Only among people who don't know any better. Why should we care what stupid people think? 

I shouldn't have to say this, but everything must be taken into context. Last year, Cousins broke an NFL record for come-from-behind victories. His game-winning drives ranked 3rd in the NFL, behind only Mahomes and Hurts. Over the last 5 seasons, no QB in the NFL has more 4th quarter TDs than Cousins. And it's not really that close. And even if you limit the TDs to margin within 1 score, Cousins finishes on top. IOW, not garbage time.

If you're going to knock him for 1 pass among 643, then do that for all of them. You'll see a lot of boneheaded passes by a lot of very good QBs, including the two above. And honestly, was that pass really that bad? He was getting intense pressure and he put the ball in play instead of taking the sack. 

Stats can be used to paint a hundred different pictures. But they also help illuminate the truth because, unlike people, numbers have no biases.

You mean like NFL MVP voters? You outline all this amazing stuff he did last year, yet he didn't even finish in the top 15 in MVP voting where nine, that's right nine QB's received votes including Geno Smith and Tua. How does someone who had such an incredible season as you outlined not even finish in the top 15 in MVP voting or have his team not bend over backwards to retain him on an extension? The real answer is because for all the stats he puts up, Kirk Cousins is going to be Kirk Cousins at the end of the day. 

Undoubtedly because he threw too many interceptions in a new offense and a mandate to take more chances. I think JJ plays a part in that too, as does the fact that the team didn't go far in the playoffs. We all know the reason for that. And we all know it wasn't Cousins. Again, no QB in the playoffs last year played better than Cousins did against the Giants.

Even still, there were a handful of media folks, including Kyle Brandt and Michael Irvin, who not only argued that he should be considered, but that he should've won it. 

A "mandate?" I hardly think turning the ball over was what KOC had in mind as turnovers are the biggest precursors to losing football games. But you are right in that Cousins wasn't to blame for the loss to the Giants, unfortunately for him on 4th and 8 with our season on the line he checked it down. If there was ever a :mandate" or a time to take a chance....that was it, and Kirk folded. 

Can you pull up the film of that play and find a better option?  Kirk explained his process on that and the film confirms it.  Can't take a sack there, gotta put the ball in play.  The o-line was beaten so fast, the rest of the WRs hadn't even gotten to the top of their routes and the defense was all sitting at the marker.

@"MaroonBells" said:

@"supafreak84" said:

@"MaroonBells" said:

@"supafreak84" said:

@"MaroonBells" said:

@"supafreak84" said:

@"MaroonBells" said:

@"supafreak84" said:

@"JimmyinSD" said: How many QBs have had a JJ, a 17 game season,  and pass friendly offense in a game that strongly favors the passing game more now than ever in he history of the game?  I'm not saying this as a knock on guys that have done it recently,  but the game has changed drastically in the favor of the QB the last couple years.  Almost 1/3 of the QBs in the league passed for over 4k yards the last 2 seasons.

As far as the Jets ineptitude,  well they aren't exactly the role model for how to run a franchise,  been plenty of WTFs from that crew over the last 50 years.

And let's not forget for all of the yards Kirk has thrown for and for all the good things, he still was tied last season for the second most INT's in the league (14, the leader had 15) and that check down on 4th and 8 in the playoffs with our season on the line was beyond awful. Now he's 35 and wants the team to belly up to the bar once again in the form of another short term, fully guaranteed contract where he calls the shots. We will be taking cap hits through 2027 on his money that's already been reshuffled in the latest version of "kicking the can down the road." Cousins is not irreplaceable, and my hope is the organization doesn't choose to continue to be held hostage by the contract demands of Cousins who we always seem to cave to because, well, "there's nobody better" we can acquire. It's time for this organization to take a swing at a QB 

KOC wanted Cousins to take more chances with the football. It resulted in some pretty dramatic comeback victories. It also resulted in more interceptions. We all expected that. What we didn't expect was just how good Cousins would become with the game on the line. 

So, no, the interception total is not an indication of decline. A new offense and a mandate to take more chances is going to increase that total. But his TD/INT ratio typically ranks among the best. The year before he had the 2nd best interception percentage in the league. 

That's one way to spin it, and the 4th and 8 check down just led into the national narrative that the guy is a choke artist who folds in big games. So he didn't end his season with people thinking "how good he was with the game on the line." Fair or not, that's the perception and the lasting image on his season. 

Only among people who don't know any better. Why should we care what stupid people think? 

I shouldn't have to say this, but everything must be taken into context. Last year, Cousins broke an NFL record for come-from-behind victories. His game-winning drives ranked 3rd in the NFL, behind only Mahomes and Hurts. Over the last 5 seasons, no QB in the NFL has more 4th quarter TDs than Cousins. And it's not really that close. And even if you limit the TDs to margin within 1 score, Cousins finishes on top. IOW, not garbage time.

If you're going to knock him for 1 pass among 643, then do that for all of them. You'll see a lot of boneheaded passes by a lot of very good QBs, including the two above. And honestly, was that pass really that bad? He was getting intense pressure and he put the ball in play instead of taking the sack. 

Stats can be used to paint a hundred different pictures. But they also help illuminate the truth because, unlike people, numbers have no biases.

You mean like NFL MVP voters? You outline all this amazing stuff he did last year, yet he didn't even finish in the top 15 in MVP voting where nine, that's right nine QB's received votes including Geno Smith and Tua. How does someone who had such an incredible season as you outlined not even finish in the top 15 in MVP voting or have his team not bend over backwards to retain him on an extension? The real answer is because for all the stats he puts up, Kirk Cousins is going to be Kirk Cousins at the end of the day. 

Undoubtedly because he threw too many interceptions in a new offense and a mandate to take more chances. I think JJ plays a part in that too, as does the fact that the team didn't go far in the playoffs. We all know the reason for that. And we all know it wasn't Cousins. Again, no QB in the playoffs last year played better than Cousins did against the Giants.

Even still, there were a handful of media folks, including Kyle Brandt and Michael Irvin, who not only argued that he should be considered, but that he should've won it. 

A "mandate?" I hardly think turning the ball over was what KOC had in mind as turnovers are the biggest precursors to losing football games. But you are right in that Cousins wasn't to blame for the loss to the Giants, unfortunately for him on 4th and 8 with our season on the line he checked it down. If there was ever a :mandate" or a time to take a chance....that was it, and Kirk folded. 

You apparently missed every conversation from the offseason. KOC encouraged Cousins to be more aggressive, even if that meant throwing more interceptions. KOC did the same thing with Stafford the year before. He threw 17 interceptions! He also threw 41 TDs and won the Super Bowl.

Cousins has always been famously over-cautious with the football, so KOC's mandate was a hard pill for him to swallow. He mentioned it many times. But he did well. I think we probably don't win 3 or 4 of those comebacks without Cousins being more aggressive. 

@"supafreak84" said:

@"greediron" said:

Can you pull up the film of that play and find a better option?  Kirk explained his process on that and the film confirms it.  Can't take a sack there, gotta put the ball in play.  The o-line was beaten so fast, the rest of the WRs hadn't even gotten to the top of their routes and the defense was all sitting at the marker.

https://youtu.be/6BZxxps66Qs

Never seen a quarterback that needed so many excuses. 

@"supafreak84" said:

@"greediron" said:

@"supafreak84" said:

@"MaroonBells" said:

@"supafreak84" said:

@"MaroonBells" said:

@"supafreak84" said:

@"MaroonBells" said:

@"supafreak84" said:

@"JimmyinSD" said: How many QBs have had a JJ, a 17 game season,  and pass friendly offense in a game that strongly favors the passing game more now than ever in he history of the game?  I'm not saying this as a knock on guys that have done it recently,  but the game has changed drastically in the favor of the QB the last couple years.  Almost 1/3 of the QBs in the league passed for over 4k yards the last 2 seasons.

As far as the Jets ineptitude,  well they aren't exactly the role model for how to run a franchise,  been plenty of WTFs from that crew over the last 50 years.

And let's not forget for all of the yards Kirk has thrown for and for all the good things, he still was tied last season for the second most INT's in the league (14, the leader had 15) and that check down on 4th and 8 in the playoffs with our season on the line was beyond awful. Now he's 35 and wants the team to belly up to the bar once again in the form of another short term, fully guaranteed contract where he calls the shots. We will be taking cap hits through 2027 on his money that's already been reshuffled in the latest version of "kicking the can down the road." Cousins is not irreplaceable, and my hope is the organization doesn't choose to continue to be held hostage by the contract demands of Cousins who we always seem to cave to because, well, "there's nobody better" we can acquire. It's time for this organization to take a swing at a QB 

KOC wanted Cousins to take more chances with the football. It resulted in some pretty dramatic comeback victories. It also resulted in more interceptions. We all expected that. What we didn't expect was just how good Cousins would become with the game on the line. 

So, no, the interception total is not an indication of decline. A new offense and a mandate to take more chances is going to increase that total. But his TD/INT ratio typically ranks among the best. The year before he had the 2nd best interception percentage in the league. 

That's one way to spin it, and the 4th and 8 check down just led into the national narrative that the guy is a choke artist who folds in big games. So he didn't end his season with people thinking "how good he was with the game on the line." Fair or not, that's the perception and the lasting image on his season. 

Only among people who don't know any better. Why should we care what stupid people think? 

I shouldn't have to say this, but everything must be taken into context. Last year, Cousins broke an NFL record for come-from-behind victories. His game-winning drives ranked 3rd in the NFL, behind only Mahomes and Hurts. Over the last 5 seasons, no QB in the NFL has more 4th quarter TDs than Cousins. And it's not really that close. And even if you limit the TDs to margin within 1 score, Cousins finishes on top. IOW, not garbage time.

If you're going to knock him for 1 pass among 643, then do that for all of them. You'll see a lot of boneheaded passes by a lot of very good QBs, including the two above. And honestly, was that pass really that bad? He was getting intense pressure and he put the ball in play instead of taking the sack. 

Stats can be used to paint a hundred different pictures. But they also help illuminate the truth because, unlike people, numbers have no biases.

You mean like NFL MVP voters? You outline all this amazing stuff he did last year, yet he didn't even finish in the top 15 in MVP voting where nine, that's right nine QB's received votes including Geno Smith and Tua. How does someone who had such an incredible season as you outlined not even finish in the top 15 in MVP voting or have his team not bend over backwards to retain him on an extension? The real answer is because for all the stats he puts up, Kirk Cousins is going to be Kirk Cousins at the end of the day. 

Undoubtedly because he threw too many interceptions in a new offense and a mandate to take more chances. I think JJ plays a part in that too, as does the fact that the team didn't go far in the playoffs. We all know the reason for that. And we all know it wasn't Cousins. Again, no QB in the playoffs last year played better than Cousins did against the Giants.

Even still, there were a handful of media folks, including Kyle Brandt and Michael Irvin, who not only argued that he should be considered, but that he should've won it. 

A "mandate?" I hardly think turning the ball over was what KOC had in mind as turnovers are the biggest precursors to losing football games. But you are right in that Cousins wasn't to blame for the loss to the Giants, unfortunately for him on 4th and 8 with our season on the line he checked it down. If there was ever a :mandate" or a time to take a chance....that was it, and Kirk folded. 

Can you pull up the film of that play and find a better option?  Kirk explained his process on that and the film confirms it.  Can't take a sack there, gotta put the ball in play.  The o-line was beaten so fast, the rest of the WRs hadn't even gotten to the top of their routes and the defense was all sitting at the marker.

https://youtu.be/6BZxxps66Qs

I know Cousins gets the heat on that last play, but truly it was a shitty play all. The coach should own that one. 
They ran that same play with a different personnel package like two or three plays before. In that player package, it was Cook in TJ’s route. Flash forward, they call the same play with the sticks extremely well covered. The only reasonable option minus a high risk pick or pass defense was the one he threw. 
At the end of the day, they were in that position because of the defense. Had they done their job even at a mid level last year, the team stood a high chance of playing for the trophy. 
13-4 folks and a ton of those wins were thanks to Cousins, our offense and KOC. 
I’m all for a QB of the future. I like Cousins but he’s getting old. It’s time to find someone. However, going without him and nothing in place is absolute insanity. 

@"Havoc1649" said: I know Cousins gets the heat on that last play, but truly it was a shitty play all. The coach should own that one. 

KOC should take some of the blame. On a passing down with your season on the line, and knowing Dexter Lawrence had been crushing the pocket all game long, how do you not go max protection with Ham or Mundt in the backfield? It's really inexplicable. On the play itself, it was a bang-bang play, but you can not under any circumstances throw it to Hockenson short of the sticks with a defender in his back pocket. That out of all options had the lowest probability of success. I'd have rather seen him throw it up to Jefferson in double coverage. 

@"MaroonBells" said:

@"Havoc1649" said: I know Cousins gets the heat on that last play, but truly it was a shitty play all. The coach should own that one. 

KOC actually took the blame for that play call. Also, the muttonhead who did this "analysis" doesn't have the first clue about playing QB. The decision to throw is made well before a QB's arm is back. If you look at the decision point in the tape, Hockenson actually has more separation than Osborn and a fairly decent chance to break a tackle and get to the sticks, something he did many times in the regular season. 

@"greediron" said:

@"MaroonBells" said:

@"Havoc1649" said: I know Cousins gets the heat on that last play, but truly it was a shitty play all. The coach should own that one. 

KOC actually took the blame for that play call. Also, the muttonhead who did this "analysis" doesn't have the first clue about playing QB. The decision to throw is made well before a QB's arm is back. If you look at the decision point in the tape, Hockenson actually has more separation than Osborn and a fairly decent chance to break a tackle and get to the sticks, something he did many times in the regular season. 

It sounded like that one other viking twitter guy, luke braun.  Thinks because he buys the all 22 and learns a few words, he suddenly can breakdown film.

As to KOC and Kirk, I think Kirk's analysis after the game was spot on.  He knew he had to put it in play and give someone a chance.  But he also said he really wanted the throw on the previous 3rd down back. He had KJ on that one but didn't lead him enough, putting the ball right in his body so the trailing DB was in position to make the play.  If he leads him, it is a catch and first down.

Point being, this isn't coming from a mind that panicked, but a veteran QB who sees the game clearly.

Interesting takes...