Tomlinson heading to Cleveland
Sources: The #Browns are expected to sign former #Vikings DT Dalvin Tomlinson, landing their coveted big-time defenders on Day 1 of free agency. He gets a 4-year deal worth $57M with $27.5M guaranteed.
— Ian Rapoport (@RapSheet) March 14, 2023
Vikings weren't going to be able to touch that, good for him. Leaves a decent sized hole along the Vikings front 3 and accelerates $7.5M in dead money onto the 2023 cap. Nearly up to $30M in dead money at this point.
@"Geoff Nichols" said: Vikings weren't going to be able to touch that, good for him. Leaves a decent sized hole along the Vikings front 3 and accelerates $7.5M in dead money onto the 2023 cap. Nearly up to $30M in dead money at this point.Dead money does not matter. Cap space matters.
yea we signed blocking te ND kept hicks
Yeah, that's too much for a 5T. Really wanted him back, but suspected he'd get a bigger bag than we could carry. So now we have to fill that position or see if one of Blacklock, Bullard, Lynch or Otomewo can step up.
Personally, I didn't notice a big drop-off or leap with the D when Tomlinson was out injured or when he came back last season. He made some nice plays, but I just don't think he was as much of a playmaker as I thought he'd be the entire time he was here. Good for him, but it's not like we lost a "superstar".
@"HappyViking" said: Personally, I didn't notice a big drop-off or leap with the D when Tomlinson was out injured or when he came back last season. He made some nice plays, but I just don't think he was as much of a playmaker as I thought he'd be the entire time he was here. Good for him, but it's not like we lost a "superstar".
He's not a superstar. Not many 5-techs who are. But he was signed in Minnesota to play DT in our 4-3 and he's going back to that in Cleveland.
Yah, no ways MN was going to pay him that kinda $$$
I dont blame those guys one bit for chasing the $ with as short as their careers are (and the cost they could pay playing).
Dont like the names on the roster we have to fill his spot, but maybe the new staff can get more out of them vs old staff.
This hurts bad. When they extended the negotiating window, I was very hopeful they could get a deal done. He’s a very good player and it’s a tough loss. Contracts that size are tough for them to do right now though. I would have matched this, as it was offset this year by the dead hit, but they must think they have someone that can step up.
@"MarkSP18" said:From what perspective, talking about 2024 or roster building as a whole? Dead money matters quite a bit in the current year.@"Geoff Nichols" said: Vikings weren't going to be able to touch that, good for him. Leaves a decent sized hole along the Vikings front 3 and accelerates $7.5M in dead money onto the 2023 cap. Nearly up to $30M in dead money at this point. Dead money does not matter. Cap space matters.
@"Geoff Nichols" said:Thanks for clarifying Geoff, I was kinda confused about the dead money doesn't matter statement.@"MarkSP18" said:From what perspective, talking about 2024 or roster building as a whole? Dead money matters quite a bit in the current year.@"Geoff Nichols" said: Vikings weren't going to be able to touch that, good for him. Leaves a decent sized hole along the Vikings front 3 and accelerates $7.5M in dead money onto the 2023 cap. Nearly up to $30M in dead money at this point. Dead money does not matter. Cap space matters.
@"Geoff Nichols" said:@"MarkSP18" said:From what perspective, talking about 2024 or roster building as a whole? Dead money matters quite a bit in the current year.@"Geoff Nichols" said: Vikings weren't going to be able to touch that, good for him. Leaves a decent sized hole along the Vikings front 3 and accelerates $7.5M in dead money onto the 2023 cap. Nearly up to $30M in dead money at this point. Dead money does not matter. Cap space matters.Dead money counts against the salary cap 100% doesn't it? So $30M in dead money means we effectively have $30M less to spend in the current year?
@"AGRforever" said:@"Geoff Nichols" said:@"MarkSP18" said:From what perspective, talking about 2024 or roster building as a whole? Dead money matters quite a bit in the current year.@"Geoff Nichols" said: Vikings weren't going to be able to touch that, good for him. Leaves a decent sized hole along the Vikings front 3 and accelerates $7.5M in dead money onto the 2023 cap. Nearly up to $30M in dead money at this point. Dead money does not matter. Cap space matters.Dead money counts against the salary cap 100% doesn't it? So $30M in dead money means we effectively have $30M less to spend in the current year?
exactly. dead money is that magic money that leads some to believe that the cap is a myth, that you can just push bonuses and other cap hits into future years and deal with them then, well this is what they turn into.. dead money that becomes somebody elses problem because the players that a GM thought would be worth over spending on, actually werent, he gets fired and the dead caps hits from those players becomes the new GMs problem.
@"JimmyinSD" said:@"AGRforever" said:@"Geoff Nichols" said:@"MarkSP18" said:From what perspective, talking about 2024 or roster building as a whole? Dead money matters quite a bit in the current year.@"Geoff Nichols" said: Vikings weren't going to be able to touch that, good for him. Leaves a decent sized hole along the Vikings front 3 and accelerates $7.5M in dead money onto the 2023 cap. Nearly up to $30M in dead money at this point. Dead money does not matter. Cap space matters.Dead money counts against the salary cap 100% doesn't it? So $30M in dead money means we effectively have $30M less to spend in the current year?
exactly. dead money is that magic money that leads some to believe that the cap is a myth, that you can just push bonuses and other cap hits into future years and deal with them then, well this is what they turn into.. dead money that becomes somebody elses problem because the players that a GM thought would be worth over spending on, actually werent, he gets fired and the dead caps hits from those players becomes the new GMs problem.
The cap is a myth thing is meant for folks who incorrectly think it's a stone tablet, when in reality it's elastic. Flexible, adjustable, bendable, posable in a hundred dimensions. Dead money isn't etched in stone either. It can be diminished or eliminated altogether with restructures or extensions.Guess who entered free agency with the most dead money? The Eagles at $46M. Vikings ranked 21st with $3.8M. And, yes, that has since changed with the Thielen and Kendricks release.
@"MaroonBells" said:@"JimmyinSD" said:@"AGRforever" said:@"Geoff Nichols" said:@"MarkSP18" said:From what perspective, talking about 2024 or roster building as a whole? Dead money matters quite a bit in the current year.@"Geoff Nichols" said: Vikings weren't going to be able to touch that, good for him. Leaves a decent sized hole along the Vikings front 3 and accelerates $7.5M in dead money onto the 2023 cap. Nearly up to $30M in dead money at this point. Dead money does not matter. Cap space matters.Dead money counts against the salary cap 100% doesn't it? So $30M in dead money means we effectively have $30M less to spend in the current year?
exactly. dead money is that magic money that leads some to believe that the cap is a myth, that you can just push bonuses and other cap hits into future years and deal with them then, well this is what they turn into.. dead money that becomes somebody elses problem because the players that a GM thought would be worth over spending on, actually werent, he gets fired and the dead caps hits from those players becomes the new GMs problem.
The cap is a myth thing is meant for folks who incorrectly think it's a stone tablet, when in reality it's elastic. Flexible, adjustable, bendable, posable in a hundred dimensions. Dead money isn't etched in stone either. It can be diminished or eliminated altogether with restructures or extensions.Guess who entered free agency with the most dead money? The Eagles at $46M. Vikings ranked 21st with $3.8M. And, yes, that has since changed with the Thielen and Kendricks release.
it all has to be paid at some point, you can play all the contractual voodoo games you want, but in the end, if its put into a contract and paid out, it will hit the Vikings cap some year. Its not a myth, its called robbing from peter to pay paul, and its really not a good business practice, sure its handy and effective once in a while, but at some point peter wants his and then shit gets really tough, the Vikings are playing closer and closer to that point each year with trying to put a serviceable team around bad contracts that players performance doesnt meet.
@"Geoff Nichols" said:Obviously, but most folks should have known that the restructures would eventually lead to this result. It happened as you know because of the 181.2M salary cap number in 2021. Almost all teams had to add void years and spread money out.@"MarkSP18" said:From what perspective, talking about 2024 or roster building as a whole? Dead money matters quite a bit in the current year.@"Geoff Nichols" said: Vikings weren't going to be able to touch that, good for him. Leaves a decent sized hole along the Vikings front 3 and accelerates $7.5M in dead money onto the 2023 cap. Nearly up to $30M in dead money at this point. Dead money does not matter. Cap space matters.So it really does not matter this year because it is off the books next year. It was inevitable and will be inevitable with Cousins contract when they finally have to move on.
@"JimmyinSD" said:@"MaroonBells" said:@"JimmyinSD" said:@"AGRforever" said:@"Geoff Nichols" said:@"MarkSP18" said:From what perspective, talking about 2024 or roster building as a whole? Dead money matters quite a bit in the current year.@"Geoff Nichols" said: Vikings weren't going to be able to touch that, good for him. Leaves a decent sized hole along the Vikings front 3 and accelerates $7.5M in dead money onto the 2023 cap. Nearly up to $30M in dead money at this point. Dead money does not matter. Cap space matters.Dead money counts against the salary cap 100% doesn't it? So $30M in dead money means we effectively have $30M less to spend in the current year?
exactly. dead money is that magic money that leads some to believe that the cap is a myth, that you can just push bonuses and other cap hits into future years and deal with them then, well this is what they turn into.. dead money that becomes somebody elses problem because the players that a GM thought would be worth over spending on, actually werent, he gets fired and the dead caps hits from those players becomes the new GMs problem.
The cap is a myth thing is meant for folks who incorrectly think it's a stone tablet, when in reality it's elastic. Flexible, adjustable, bendable, posable in a hundred dimensions. Dead money isn't etched in stone either. It can be diminished or eliminated altogether with restructures or extensions.Guess who entered free agency with the most dead money? The Eagles at $46M. Vikings ranked 21st with $3.8M. And, yes, that has since changed with the Thielen and Kendricks release.
it all has to be paid at some point, you can play all the contractual voodoo games you want, but in the end, if its put into a contract and paid out, it will hit the Vikings cap some year. Its not a myth, its called robbing from peter to pay paul, and its really not a good business practice, sure its handy and effective once in a while, but at some point peter wants his and then shit gets really tough, the Vikings are playing closer and closer to that point each year with trying to put a serviceable team around bad contracts that players performance doesnt meet.
I totally agree that dead money is bad because you’re generally
paying players that aren’t here anymore, and that’s inefficient, but I don’t
think it’s always bad. GMs factor it
into the equation. I think a lot of cap
management is how do you maximize your window.
There are some years where you are going to be competitive and some
years where you aren’t. A good cap
manager is able to take money from those years where you plan on not being competitive
and use it to increase your competitiveness in all the other years. I think it’s key to minimize how many down
years you have and try to squish all the dead cap into as small a time period
as possible.
@"medaille" said:@"JimmyinSD" said:@"MaroonBells" said:@"JimmyinSD" said:@"AGRforever" said:@"Geoff Nichols" said:@"MarkSP18" said:From what perspective, talking about 2024 or roster building as a whole? Dead money matters quite a bit in the current year.@"Geoff Nichols" said: Vikings weren't going to be able to touch that, good for him. Leaves a decent sized hole along the Vikings front 3 and accelerates $7.5M in dead money onto the 2023 cap. Nearly up to $30M in dead money at this point. Dead money does not matter. Cap space matters.Dead money counts against the salary cap 100% doesn't it? So $30M in dead money means we effectively have $30M less to spend in the current year?
exactly. dead money is that magic money that leads some to believe that the cap is a myth, that you can just push bonuses and other cap hits into future years and deal with them then, well this is what they turn into.. dead money that becomes somebody elses problem because the players that a GM thought would be worth over spending on, actually werent, he gets fired and the dead caps hits from those players becomes the new GMs problem.
The cap is a myth thing is meant for folks who incorrectly think it's a stone tablet, when in reality it's elastic. Flexible, adjustable, bendable, posable in a hundred dimensions. Dead money isn't etched in stone either. It can be diminished or eliminated altogether with restructures or extensions.Guess who entered free agency with the most dead money? The Eagles at $46M. Vikings ranked 21st with $3.8M. And, yes, that has since changed with the Thielen and Kendricks release.
it all has to be paid at some point, you can play all the contractual voodoo games you want, but in the end, if its put into a contract and paid out, it will hit the Vikings cap some year. Its not a myth, its called robbing from peter to pay paul, and its really not a good business practice, sure its handy and effective once in a while, but at some point peter wants his and then shit gets really tough, the Vikings are playing closer and closer to that point each year with trying to put a serviceable team around bad contracts that players performance doesnt meet.
I totally agree that dead money is bad because you’re generally
paying players that aren’t here anymore, and that’s inefficient, but I don’t
think it’s always bad. GMs factor it
into the equation. I think a lot of cap
management is how do you maximize your window.
There are some years where you are going to be competitive and some
years where you aren’t. A good cap
manager is able to take money from those years where you plan on not being competitive
and use it to increase your competitiveness in all the other years. I think it’s key to minimize how many down
years you have and try to squish all the dead cap into as small a time period
as possible.
I agree, I tried to acknowledge that point when I pointed out that it is handy and effective once in a while, and that is how the team used to operate, front loading deals on older players to make them easier to cut later, and then rolling the dice when we thought we had a roster to do it with. We've been doing that non stop since they signed Kirk, but we are 5 years in and really havent made any headway in terms of getting closer to a championship, and IMO seem to be regressing from a talent level, so why not just get all square with Peter now and save those future years, for a future need? Hell we may go from winning the division to the basement in 1 year, I doubt it, but while we are trying to get under the cap, the laughing stock of last offseason is spending without reserve and improving their roster.
@"JimmyinSD" said:@"MaroonBells" said:@"JimmyinSD" said:@"AGRforever" said:@"Geoff Nichols" said:@"MarkSP18" said:From what perspective, talking about 2024 or roster building as a whole? Dead money matters quite a bit in the current year.@"Geoff Nichols" said: Vikings weren't going to be able to touch that, good for him. Leaves a decent sized hole along the Vikings front 3 and accelerates $7.5M in dead money onto the 2023 cap. Nearly up to $30M in dead money at this point. Dead money does not matter. Cap space matters.Dead money counts against the salary cap 100% doesn't it? So $30M in dead money means we effectively have $30M less to spend in the current year?
exactly. dead money is that magic money that leads some to believe that the cap is a myth, that you can just push bonuses and other cap hits into future years and deal with them then, well this is what they turn into.. dead money that becomes somebody elses problem because the players that a GM thought would be worth over spending on, actually werent, he gets fired and the dead caps hits from those players becomes the new GMs problem.
The cap is a myth thing is meant for folks who incorrectly think it's a stone tablet, when in reality it's elastic. Flexible, adjustable, bendable, posable in a hundred dimensions. Dead money isn't etched in stone either. It can be diminished or eliminated altogether with restructures or extensions.Guess who entered free agency with the most dead money? The Eagles at $46M. Vikings ranked 21st with $3.8M. And, yes, that has since changed with the Thielen and Kendricks release.
it all has to be paid at some point, you can play all the contractual voodoo games you want, but in the end, if its put into a contract and paid out, it will hit the Vikings cap some year. Its not a myth, its called robbing from peter to pay paul, and its really not a good business practice, sure its handy and effective once in a while, but at some point peter wants his and then shit gets really tough, the Vikings are playing closer and closer to that point each year with trying to put a serviceable team around bad contracts that players performance doesnt meet.
But some of you seem to think the Vikings are the only one playing this game. Again, before free agency, the Vikings had $3.8M dead. The Eagles had $46M. Now, after releasing Kendricks and Thielen, the Vikings have $27M and nearly all of that will be gone next season. But we'll likely generate more by then. The point is that it fluctuates wildly each year and it really has little bearing on success or failure. It's not ideal; it's inefficient. But it's just not as crippling as some of you make it sound. It's far more important to have a QB.Saints were, what, $55M over the cap when they signed Derek Carr to a $150M contract? Guessing you think that was foolish. Can kicking. I'm no Carr fan, but I'll bet you a lutefisk sandwich that the Saints improve quite a bit in 2023. Ya gotta have a QB.
@"MaroonBells" said:@"JimmyinSD" said:@"MaroonBells" said:@"JimmyinSD" said:@"AGRforever" said:@"Geoff Nichols" said:@"MarkSP18" said:From what perspective, talking about 2024 or roster building as a whole? Dead money matters quite a bit in the current year.@"Geoff Nichols" said: Vikings weren't going to be able to touch that, good for him. Leaves a decent sized hole along the Vikings front 3 and accelerates $7.5M in dead money onto the 2023 cap. Nearly up to $30M in dead money at this point. Dead money does not matter. Cap space matters.Dead money counts against the salary cap 100% doesn't it? So $30M in dead money means we effectively have $30M less to spend in the current year?
exactly. dead money is that magic money that leads some to believe that the cap is a myth, that you can just push bonuses and other cap hits into future years and deal with them then, well this is what they turn into.. dead money that becomes somebody elses problem because the players that a GM thought would be worth over spending on, actually werent, he gets fired and the dead caps hits from those players becomes the new GMs problem.
The cap is a myth thing is meant for folks who incorrectly think it's a stone tablet, when in reality it's elastic. Flexible, adjustable, bendable, posable in a hundred dimensions. Dead money isn't etched in stone either. It can be diminished or eliminated altogether with restructures or extensions.Guess who entered free agency with the most dead money? The Eagles at $46M. Vikings ranked 21st with $3.8M. And, yes, that has since changed with the Thielen and Kendricks release.
it all has to be paid at some point, you can play all the contractual voodoo games you want, but in the end, if its put into a contract and paid out, it will hit the Vikings cap some year. Its not a myth, its called robbing from peter to pay paul, and its really not a good business practice, sure its handy and effective once in a while, but at some point peter wants his and then shit gets really tough, the Vikings are playing closer and closer to that point each year with trying to put a serviceable team around bad contracts that players performance doesnt meet.
But some of you seem to think the Vikings are the only one playing this game. Again, before free agency, the Vikings had $3.8M dead. The Eagles had $46M. Now, after releasing Kendricks and Thielen, the Vikings have $27M and nearly all of that will be gone next season. But we'll likely generate more by then. The point is that it fluctuates wildly each year and it really has little bearing on success or failure. It's not ideal; it's inefficient. But it's just not as crippling as some of you make it sound. It's far more important to have a QB.Saints were, what, $55M over the cap when they signed Derek Carr to a $150M contract? Guessing you think that was foolish. Can kicking. I'm no Carr fan, but I'll bet you a lutefisk sandwich that the Saints improve quite a bit in 2023. Ya gotta have a QB.
Kicking the can down the road isn't always bad, depending on what you're trying to accomplish. There also is an aspect to what your opportunities are to get out of deals. So it has to be graded on a case by case basis. Some teams also are strong believer in the time value of cap space. E.G opening up cap today is worth more on a per dollar basis than that dollar is worth in the future. With the cap continually rising it isn't a bad argument either.But what I would hold is that kicking the can does not necessarily enable dead money depending on how you terminate the deal. The Tomlinson contract was a bit worse since the Vikings didn't have many opportunities to get out clean and had written a deal that was going to be awfully hard to write an extension on top of.
@"MaroonBells" said:@"JimmyinSD" said:@"MaroonBells" said:@"JimmyinSD" said:@"AGRforever" said:@"Geoff Nichols" said:@"MarkSP18" said:From what perspective, talking about 2024 or roster building as a whole? Dead money matters quite a bit in the current year.@"Geoff Nichols" said: Vikings weren't going to be able to touch that, good for him. Leaves a decent sized hole along the Vikings front 3 and accelerates $7.5M in dead money onto the 2023 cap. Nearly up to $30M in dead money at this point. Dead money does not matter. Cap space matters.Dead money counts against the salary cap 100% doesn't it? So $30M in dead money means we effectively have $30M less to spend in the current year?
exactly. dead money is that magic money that leads some to believe that the cap is a myth, that you can just push bonuses and other cap hits into future years and deal with them then, well this is what they turn into.. dead money that becomes somebody elses problem because the players that a GM thought would be worth over spending on, actually werent, he gets fired and the dead caps hits from those players becomes the new GMs problem.
The cap is a myth thing is meant for folks who incorrectly think it's a stone tablet, when in reality it's elastic. Flexible, adjustable, bendable, posable in a hundred dimensions. Dead money isn't etched in stone either. It can be diminished or eliminated altogether with restructures or extensions.Guess who entered free agency with the most dead money? The Eagles at $46M. Vikings ranked 21st with $3.8M. And, yes, that has since changed with the Thielen and Kendricks release.
it all has to be paid at some point, you can play all the contractual voodoo games you want, but in the end, if its put into a contract and paid out, it will hit the Vikings cap some year. Its not a myth, its called robbing from peter to pay paul, and its really not a good business practice, sure its handy and effective once in a while, but at some point peter wants his and then shit gets really tough, the Vikings are playing closer and closer to that point each year with trying to put a serviceable team around bad contracts that players performance doesnt meet.
But some of you seem to think the Vikings are the only one playing this game. Again, before free agency, the Vikings had $3.8M dead. The Eagles had $46M. Now, after releasing Kendricks and Thielen, the Vikings have $27M and nearly all of that will be gone next season. But we'll likely generate more by then. The point is that it fluctuates wildly each year and it really has little bearing on success or failure. It's not ideal; it's inefficient. But it's just not as crippling as some of you make it sound. It's far more important to have a QB.Saints were, what, $55M over the cap when they signed Derek Carr to a $150M contract? Guessing you think that was foolish. Can kicking. I'm no Carr fan, but I'll bet you a lutefisk sandwich that the Saints improve quite a bit in 2023. Ya gotta have a QB.
other teams doing stupid shit helps my team, my team doing stupid shit doesnt help my team. and yes you have to have a QB, but its not like either team is going to do anything of note with either QB, so why not just go cheap and get what you pay for instead of over paying, damaging future roster funds, and still end coming up short? is one and done in the playoffs really that much more satisfying than not making them at all, especially knowing that you are taking away 1 or 2 damn good players in a couple year and got nothing to show for it?its not really 150 million, its actually 2 years 60 million, so while yes their is can kicking taking place, its for a lot less than what we are looking at with KC, and if I was a fan of the aints, i would be pissed. even if it goes the full 4 years, that works out to be 35 per year, which is likely more than Carr is worth, but how much more will the cap increase over the next 4 years when that 50M number skews the average?
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