Cousins and his contract

@"pattersaur" said:

Moneywise the timelines could work, but how many championship-caliber teams can the Vikings expect to have in the next 4 seasons of a Kirk extension? No one knows the future and so much can change year to year, but if the probable answer to the above question is two or God forbid one then you can't make that deal. I'll say again I don't think the Vikings FO will do that. I really believe they're going to let Kirk play out his current deal if a short (2 years, MAX) extension cannot be reached. I'm warming up to a Hooker.

@"pattersaur" said:

I'm warming up to a Hooker.

Don't see how Minnesota doesn't sign Kirk to a new deal: They got NOTHING else going. Derek Carr? Please. Cousins holds the cards. 

@"StickyBun" said: Don't see how Minnesota doesn't sign Kirk to a new deal: They got NOTHING else going. Derek Carr? Please. Cousins holds the cards. 

@"StickyBun" said: Don't see how Minnesota doesn't sign Kirk to a new deal: They got NOTHING else going. Derek Carr? Please. Cousins holds the cards. 

Carr's deal is four years at 37 million a year. So where does this put Kirk? 39, 40 million a year? 

@"JimmyinSD" said:

@"StickyBun" said: Don't see how Minnesota doesn't sign Kirk to a new deal: They got NOTHING else going. Derek Carr? Please. Cousins holds the cards. 

I heard on some radio show I hit that Cousins camp doesnt want to let go of the short term 100% guaranteed deal,  they want to keep being able to reset the contract every couple years,  and dont want to leave the team with any outs.  If this is the case I hope they choose to roll the dice on NOTHING and tell KC to pack his bags after 23.

How a team gets flexibility is you bring in competition, and
you don’t guarantee your QBs contract for a billion years.  I think Cousins maybe has 1 more short
extension in him, but soonish, he’s going to want to get locked up to a bigger
long term deal that will provide him more assurance of income as he approaches
the end of his career.  I think at some
point, if Cousins doesn’t provide us an NFC championship or damn close, we’ll
start to look at KAM and KOC as getting stale, like maybe these guys aren’t the
ones to get us there.  We’ll also hit the
point where Cousins starts to hit his decline. 
If they have a young fresh option by that time, that buys them a couple
more years in the realm of public opinion. 
If they don’t, the front office might decide that it’s time to restart
with a new GM or new coaches to go with a new QB.  I really think it behooves them to be ahead
of that conversation rather than behind that conversation, and that’s separate
from my belief that you should always be actively trying to find that next
elite QB.

@"medaille" said: How a team gets flexibility is you bring in competition, and you don’t guarantee your QBs contract for a billion years.  I think Cousins maybe has 1 more short extension in him, but soonish, he’s going to want to get locked up to a bigger long term deal that will provide him more assurance of income as he approaches the end of his career.  I think at some point, if Cousins doesn’t provide us an NFC championship or damn close, we’ll start to look at KAM and KOC as getting stale, like maybe these guys aren’t the ones to get us there.  We’ll also hit the point where Cousins starts to hit his decline.  If they have a young fresh option by that time, that buys them a couple more years in the realm of public opinion.  If they don’t, the front office might decide that it’s time to restart with a new GM or new coaches to go with a new QB.  I really think it behooves them to be ahead of that conversation rather than behind that conversation, and that’s separate from my belief that you should always be actively trying to find that next elite QB.

@"supafreak84" said: Carr's deal is four years at 37 million a year. So where does this put Kirk? 39, 40 million a year? 

Carr's deal is a good symbolization of how Kirk holds the Vikings hostage in some ways. He effectively took a 2 year $70M deal with the Saints. Then they have 2 years of options (where they can get out). So on paper its 4 years $150M with a void year. In actuality its more likely 3 years $100M. But with the added term you can really massage the salary cap to the point he only counts $7.2M against the cap in 2023. Extreme due to their cap constraints, but the point is made. 

If precedence has set anything if Kirk were to take a similar deal it would be either 2 years $75M or 3 years $112.5M. You can't backload the deal since there isn't term and you're fully locked in with limited mobility on how you move that money around. Its a big enough difference that realistically the lowest year 1 cap hit you could do is $18M on the 2 year deal and $12M on the 3 year deal. Both with 2 added void years. 

Only paints the picture that less term and more guaranteed money = less cap flexibility. Not suggesting they don't extend Kirk, but this is a good example. 

@"Geoff Nichols" said:

@"supafreak84" said: Carr's deal is four years at 37 million a year. So where does this put Kirk? 39, 40 million a year? 

Probably $41M or so. Its a moot point unless the Vikings get enough term without full guarantees. 

Carr's deal is a good symbolization of how Kirk holds the Vikings hostage in some ways. He effectively took a 2 year $70M deal with the Saints. Then they have 2 years of options (where they can get out). So on paper its 4 years $150M with a void year. In actuality its more likely 3 years $100M. But with the added term you can really massage the salary cap to the point he only counts $7.2M against the cap in 2023. Extreme due to their cap constraints, but the point is made. 

If precedence has set anything if Kirk were to take a similar deal it would be either 2 years $75M or 3 years $112.5M. You can't backload the deal since there isn't term and you're fully locked in with limited mobility on how you move that money around. Its a big enough difference that realistically the lowest year 1 cap hit you could do is $18M on the 2 year deal and $12M on the 3 year deal. Both with 2 added void years. 

Only paints the picture that less term and more guaranteed money = less cap flexibility. Not suggesting they don't extend Kirk, but this is a good example. 

@"Geoff Nichols" said:

@"supafreak84" said: Carr's deal is four years at 37 million a year. So where does this put Kirk? 39, 40 million a year? 

Probably $41M or so. Its a moot point unless the Vikings get enough term without full guarantees. 

Carr's deal is a good symbolization of how Kirk holds the Vikings hostage in some ways. He effectively took a 2 year $70M deal with the Saints. Then they have 2 years of options (where they can get out). So on paper its 4 years $150M with a void year. In actuality its more likely 3 years $100M. But with the added term you can really massage the salary cap to the point he only counts $7.2M against the cap in 2023. Extreme due to their cap constraints, but the point is made. 

If precedence has set anything if Kirk were to take a similar deal it would be either 2 years $75M or 3 years $112.5M. You can't backload the deal since there isn't term and you're fully locked in with limited mobility on how you move that money around. Its a big enough difference that realistically the lowest year 1 cap hit you could do is $18M on the 2 year deal and $12M on the 3 year deal. Both with 2 added void years. 

Only paints the picture that less term and more guaranteed money = less cap flexibility. Not suggesting they don't extend Kirk, but this is a good example. 

@"Knucklehead" said:

@"Geoff Nichols" said:

@"supafreak84" said: Carr's deal is four years at 37 million a year. So where does this put Kirk? 39, 40 million a year? 

Probably $41M or so. Its a moot point unless the Vikings get enough term without full guarantees. 

Carr's deal is a good symbolization of how Kirk holds the Vikings hostage in some ways. He effectively took a 2 year $70M deal with the Saints. Then they have 2 years of options (where they can get out). So on paper its 4 years $150M with a void year. In actuality its more likely 3 years $100M. But with the added term you can really massage the salary cap to the point he only counts $7.2M against the cap in 2023. Extreme due to their cap constraints, but the point is made. 

If precedence has set anything if Kirk were to take a similar deal it would be either 2 years $75M or 3 years $112.5M. You can't backload the deal since there isn't term and you're fully locked in with limited mobility on how you move that money around. Its a big enough difference that realistically the lowest year 1 cap hit you could do is $18M on the 2 year deal and $12M on the 3 year deal. Both with 2 added void years. 

Only paints the picture that less term and more guaranteed money = less cap flexibility. Not suggesting they don't extend Kirk, but this is a good example. 

Doesn't Kirko's current contract include void years for 2024 & 2025? Can't the team lower his 2023 cap by converting his roster bonus & spreading those charges into 2024 or both 2024 & 2025?

Odds are not good the Vikings find Cousins replacement anytime soon. If they are crazy lucky and manage a miracle in the draft, perhaps the math changes, but I don’t see that happening. In my opinion, Cousins is plenty good enough to win a championship, but you can’t trot out a bottom 5 defense with him (or anyone besides maybe Mahimes) and expect to be competitive enough in the playoffs. 
My goal would be serious discussions after the draft. I’d look at a 3 year with 2 void years - whatever it took to get his cap number down. You get that down to that $16 million range this year and it frees up $20 million that can go to defense and also get you clear of some of the dead money on these poor contracts Spielman did the past couple of years. With that kind of money, you can make a couple of impactful additions. 

I think the last thing Kwesi should be thinking about is his tenure/hitching his wagon. His sole focus should be putting together the best roster to win, regardless if there is risk in guaranteed money. With the level of injuries in the league, there’s always substantial risk in nearly every contract. Cousins at least has a stellar history on that front. 
By setting the position, it allows you a number of positives: 
1. Everyone knows who the guys is. He’s well liked and respected already. This is good for everyone from roster decisions for Kwesi to Free Agency.

2. It allows time to find his long term replacement. There’s no rush to draft a prospect now and it reduces the stress with getting that right. It avoids getting forced into taking a guy just to get one. 
3. As I said, it puts the focus where it should be - turning around deficiencies like the defense. Defense is almost exclusively why we are not championship caliber. Our #6 offense is exactly what you like to have in place, while a bottom 5 defense has to change. 
I wouldn’t think twice about getting this done, unless by miracle someone falls to us. 
To improve the defense, my number 1 target would be Lavonte David in free agency. As an older player he won’t be as expensive as others and he is still playing elite football. The number one improvement he can bring is in coverage. He’s still near the top of the league. He’s be paired with Asamoah - who has also shown good coverage ability and potential. 
My other free agent target would be defensive line. I’d like to see them keep Tomlinson (if they can’t, I do like Tonga as the future at the position) and to add a large athletic defensive end. Restructuring and moving on from some large contracts can put us in good position to get better. I hope Kwesi is up to the task. 

I just don't see where a Cousins replacement would come from in this Draft considering where they pick in round 1 and missing that 2nd rounder. Hendon Hooker maybe? But do we think he'll last to the end of round 3?? I don't. Mond went toward beginning of round 3 and he isn't anywhere near the prospect Hendon is. What might drop Hooker is his age, but he's athletic enough to play for 10 years in the NFL. Good years. 

@"StickyBun" said: I just don't see where a Cousins replacement would come from in this Draft considering where they pick in round 1 and missing that 2nd rounder. Hendon Hooker maybe? But do we think he'll last to the end of round 3?? I don't. Mond went toward beginning of round 3 and he isn't anywhere near the prospect Hendon is. What might drop Hooker is his age, but he's athletic enough to play for 10 years in the NFL. Good years. 

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/35799859/best-worst-free-agent-signings-every-nfl-team-last-five-years
Interesting take, but I don't disagree. Cousins has brought stability to the position, but his leverage over us in contract negotiations is our own fault. I knew he was up there, but I didn't realize he's consumed more cap space over that 5 year period then any other player outside of Russell Wilson and Aaron Rodgers. For a guy who is a borderline top 10 QB...that's insane and the Vikings have nobody to blame but themselves

All the team really has to do, to quickly become cap compliant, is restructure O’Neil & extend Hockenson. Any & all other moves, whether cuts, restructures, or trades are all available to improve our roster. This should be an interesting time, get your popcorn ready…!  B) 

Go back and watch the Vikings/Bills game again. Yes, we won but just watch Cousins play and then come back and tell me he's worth another contract. Cousins has had more chances than most QB's ever get and if I were the GM I would let him play his contract out. I would tell him, "Play 2023 and if we get to the Superbowl then you can write your own check."

@"supafreak84" said: https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/35799859/best-worst-free-agent-signings-every-nfl-team-last-five-years

Interesting take, but I don't disagree. Cousins has brought stability to the position, but his leverage over us in contract negotiations is our own fault. I knew he was up there, but I didn't realize he's consumed more cap space over that 5 year period then any other player outside of Russell Wilson and Aaron Rodgers. For a guy who is a borderline top 10 QB...that's insane and the Vikings have nobody to blame but themselves

OK, but outside of QBs who were on rookie contracts over some of that time period, how many QBs in the NFL actually played all five of those seasons? I think there's only three more: Matthew Stafford, Dak Prescott and Tom Brady. So the field is pretty thin to begin with. And if it matters, I'd say Cousins was better than all five last year, wouldn't you? 

Edit: Actually take out Prescott who was on his rookie contract for part of that time, and replace him with Matt Ryan. But the same holds.