The Hoch

That performance was for @JimmyinSD …  ;) B)  

Amazing we were able to get a game changing 25 year old TE for what we did during the season.  Lions paid us back for the gift we gave them in the draft. 

TJH has taken a bunch of pressure off JJ too. 

@"JR44" said: Amazing we were able to get a game changing 25 year old TE for what we did during the season.  Lions paid us back for the gift we gave them in the draft. 

@"StickyBun" said:

@"JR44" said: Amazing we were able to get a game changing 25 year old TE for what we did during the season.  Lions paid us back for the gift we gave them in the draft. 

Agreed. I was shocked when I saw the news about the trade on Twitter. He's a top 10 TE in the NFL. I couldn't believe KAM got him, but very glad. 

Against the Giants, T.J. Hockenson is 'that guy' for the Vikings offenseT.J. Hockenson set a career high and a franchise record for tight ends with 13 catches, producing 109 yards and two touchdowns.
If the Vikings hold onto the second seed in the NFC playoffs, they can thank T.J. Hockenson and the trade that brought him to Minnesota.

If the Lions miss the playoffs, they can blame that deal.
Vikings General Manager Kwesi Adofo-Mensah's intradivisional theft — downgrading a couple of draft picks for a premier tight end — is one of the most obvious reasons the Vikings are 12-3 and continuing to win close games.
On Saturday, Hockenson set a career high and a franchise record for tight ends with 13 catches, producing 109 yards and two touchdowns
The Vikings wouldn't have beaten the Giants 27-24 on Saturday at U.S. Bank Stadium without him. They wouldn't have won at Washington, where he had nine catches for 70 yards after two days of practices in Minnesota, without him. And they might not have beaten the Patriots without him.
What's even more remarkable is that Hockenson has rapidly passed a pair of fine receivers, Adam Thielen and K.J. Osborn, to become Kirk Cousins' second-favorite target.
In seven games with the Vikings, Hockenson has 52 catches for 444 yards and three touchdowns. In Thielen's past seven games, he has 29 catches for 274 yards and three scores. Osborn, in that stretch, has 27 catches for 289 yards and two scores.
"Just wait until we get Irv back," Jefferson said.
The Vikings are hoping that tight end Irv Smith Jr., their second-round pick in 2019, will return from an ankle injury before the playoffs. A healthy Smith would give Vikings coach Kevin O'Connell myriad options and possible formations in what is already a diverse offense.
"I don't think you ever know when you go into that huddle — or go into a game — who's going to be that guy, because we have so many great guys," Hockenson said. "That's truly a winning offense and an offense that can be scary. That's why I'm super appreciative to be here."
His teammates still express amazement that he learned the playbook in a couple of days. Saturday, he scored on two quite different plays. On the first, he bent a route to the back of the end zone and into open space, where Cousins found him.
The second catch was more difficult. Hockenson beat two defenders down the left sideline and snatched the ball off the helmet of Giants safety Julian Love, managing to hold the ball and keep his feet in bounds as the players rolled over him.
Osborn reached him first and mimed applying CPR. Considering that the Vikings are now 11-0 in one-score games, they might want to consider going into the stands and doing the same for their fans.
"It really has been a whirlwind," Hockenson said. "I mean, truly, it's been pretty crazy and I don't think I'm going to really realize where I'm at and what I'm doing and what this team is doing until after the season. You can't step back — you just have to live in it, keep rolling, and continue building bonds with these guys.
"Every week I'm here, I'm starting to build friendships with some guys. This locker room is truly incredible."
Hockenson has drawn raves for his talent and intelligence. Saturday, he had little choice but to display toughness. In the fourth quarter, he went up for a pass and got flipped, landing hard on his shoulder. He didn't miss a series.
"That didn't feel great, by any means," he said. "But I'm good. I mean, they put me through the protocol or whatever, but it wasn't my head."
The NFL tries to enforce parity with its reverse-order draft, meaning the worst teams get the highest picks. The Vikings haven't made a pick in the top 17 in the draft since 2015.
They acquired Hockenson, the eighth pick in the 2019 draft, by trading second- and third-round selections for the tight end and two fourth-round picks.
That looked like a deft piece of pickpocketing at the time of the deal. After his performance against the Giants, it looks like grand, felonious larceny.
https://www.startribune.com/minnesota-vikings-new-york-giants-tj-hockenson-lions-trade-jim-souhan/600238590/

I might have to get me @ #87 Jersey...It's been a long time since I bought a new jersey...

KJO one week, Hockenson the next, with a steady diet of JJ throughout. Cousins is taking what the defense gives I guess. I felt pretty confident that the TE would have a big role in this offense. Just thought his name would be Irv and not TJ. Be interesting to see if Irv can make it back before the playoffs, and what role he'll have. 

@"MaroonBells" said: KJO one week, Hockenson the next, with a steady diet of JJ throughout. Cousins is taking what the defense gives I guess. I felt pretty confident that the TE would have a big role in this offense. Just thought his name would be Irv and not TJ. Be interesting to see if Irv can make it back before the playoffs, and what role he'll have. 

Players and coaches wont say so publicly out of respect, but they're not going to keep ISJ with Hock. Anything we see this season with them together will be the last. 

I had real high hopes for ISJ too. TJH ceiling is just that much higher. 

Having them both in the long-run would be a hoot and tough for D's, but there just aint enough catches to keep everyone happy, including KJO and whoever else in that WR room in coming seasons. 

@"purplefaithful" said:

@"MaroonBells" said: KJO one week, Hockenson the next, with a steady diet of JJ throughout. Cousins is taking what the defense gives I guess. I felt pretty confident that the TE would have a big role in this offense. Just thought his name would be Irv and not TJ. Be interesting to see if Irv can make it back before the playoffs, and what role he'll have. 

Yup, well said.

Players and coaches wont say so publicly out of respect, but they're not going to keep ISJ with Hock. Anything we see this season with them together will be the last. 

I had real high hopes for ISJ too. TJH ceiling is just that much higher. 

Having them both in the long-run would be a hoot and tough for D's, but there just aint enough catches to keep everyone happy, including KJO and whoever else in that WR room in coming seasons. 

I don't see him coming back this year even if he gets cleared to play again. That ship has sailed. 

@"TBro" said: I don't see him coming back this year even if he gets cleared to play again. That ship has sailed. 

@"JimmyinSD" said:

@"TBro" said: I don't see him coming back this year even if he gets cleared to play again. That ship has sailed. 

If he's cleared to play how do you keep him out?  He's in a contract year,  his camp would raise holy hell if he isn't given a chance to prove his worth and considering the Vikes need all the draft picks they can get its in there best interest if he plays great and gets a monster FA deal,  or at least enough to bring a day 2 pick.

@"TBro" said:

@"JimmyinSD" said:

@"TBro" said: I don't see him coming back this year even if he gets cleared to play again. That ship has sailed. 

If he's cleared to play how do you keep him out?  He's in a contract year,  his camp would raise holy hell if he isn't given a chance to prove his worth and considering the Vikes need all the draft picks they can get its in there best interest if he plays great and gets a monster FA deal,  or at least enough to bring a day 2 pick.

Who are you going to take reps away from so he can get some snaps and showcase his skills for his next team? If he could block, you could take some snaps away from Mundt, but he can't be counted on to do that. I don't see him getting any meaningful playing time unless there is an injury to TJ. Maybe KOC could use him as another receiving option with he and TJ in a double TE formation but pass protection is a huge issue which is why Mundt is more valuable right now. If it disrupts the chemistry they already have in the passing game, I wouldn't force him back in the lineup. KOC has had plenty of time to think about this situation so we will see what happens if and when he is cleared to play. 

@"JimmyinSD" said:

@"TBro" said: I don't see him coming back this year even if he gets cleared to play again. That ship has sailed. 

If he's cleared to play how do you keep him out?  He's in a contract year,  his camp would raise holy hell if he isn't given a chance to prove his worth and considering the Vikes need all the draft picks they can get its in there best interest if he plays great and gets a monster FA deal,  or at least enough to bring a day 2 pick.

@"purplefaithful" said:

@"MaroonBells" said: KJO one week, Hockenson the next, with a steady diet of JJ throughout. Cousins is taking what the defense gives I guess. I felt pretty confident that the TE would have a big role in this offense. Just thought his name would be Irv and not TJ. Be interesting to see if Irv can make it back before the playoffs, and what role he'll have. 

Yup, well said.

Players and coaches wont say so publicly out of respect, but they're not going to keep ISJ with Hock. Anything we see this season with them together will be the last. 

I had real high hopes for ISJ too. TJH ceiling is just that much higher. 

Having them both in the long-run would be a hoot and tough for D's, but there just aint enough catches to keep everyone happy, including KJO and whoever else in that WR room in coming seasons. 

Here's the contract they were talking about for ISJ before he was injured (again).  I'm assuming Hockenson will be in the same range going forward.  I don't honestly see them activating Smith prior to the playoffs.  I don't think there's enough catches to go around and not sure I want a rusty ISJ added to the locker room.

"While Smith is deserving of an extension, it will trigger a domino effect that will force Kwesi Adofo-Mensah and the front office to make some difficult decisions. Before getting into the minutiae of it all, there needs to be a baseline of what Irv Smith Jr.’s extension will look like. Fortunately, Jonnu Smith‘s career production is comparable to Irv’s. Jonnu Smith signed a four-year, $50 million deal with the New England Patriots last offseason.
Using Jonnu Smith’s contract as a starting point, I was able to get a better understanding of what a hypothetical Irv Smith Jr. extension would look like. The only modifications I made were increasing the signing bonus from $15 to $20 million and balancing how the money was prorated over the four-year deal."
Here’s how it all turned out:

@"badgervike" said: Here's the contract they were talking about for ISJ before he was injured (again).  I'm assuming Hockenson will be in the same range going forward.  I don't honestly see them activating Smith prior to the playoffs.  I don't think there's enough catches to go around and not sure I want a rusty ISJ added to the locker room.

"While Smith is deserving of an extension, it will trigger a domino effect that will force Kwesi Adofo-Mensah and the front office to make some difficult decisions. Before getting into the minutiae of it all, there needs to be a baseline of what Irv Smith Jr.’s extension will look like. Fortunately, Jonnu Smith‘s career production is comparable to Irv’s. Jonnu Smith signed a four-year, $50 million deal with the New England Patriots last offseason.
Using Jonnu Smith’s contract as a starting point, I was able to get a better understanding of what a hypothetical Irv Smith Jr. extension would look like. The only modifications I made were increasing the signing bonus from $15 to $20 million and balancing how the money was prorated over the four-year deal."
Here’s how it all turned out:

Irv Smith Jr.	2022	2023	2024	2025	2026
Base Salary	$1,285,698	$2,500,000	$4,500,000	$10,500,000	$12,500,000
Prorated Bonus	$4,559,260	$4,000,000	$4,000,000	$4,000,000	$4,000,000
Cap Number	$5,844,958	$6,500,000	$8,500,000	$14,500,000	$16,500,000

I don't disagree...given the production and availability.  This was assuming that ISJ would perform at a high (Hockenson) level.  Certainly, the talent was always there with Irv...but not going to miss the injury history.  Hopefully, he has enough on film to secure a decent deal with a new team and secure the Vikings a higher compensatory pick.

You let him walk. We need the extra picks and cap space. Let him be somebody else's injury concern and unfulfilled potential.