9-2: Can You Believe It?!

@"MaroonBells" said: I thought it was an 11-12 win roster. But as we saw last year, it doesn't matter how much talent you might have on your roster if you're plagued by injuries and bad coaching. 

I thought adjusting to the new schemes would be a wash with opponents unprepared for those new schemes. I think that's about right. I thought Bradbury would be better and make us re-think his contract, and that's been true.

Couple positive surprises....

• Thought we'd improve situationally but not completely flip the script like we've done. 
• Patrick Peterson is having a much better year than I thought he would. Really thought he was done
• Darrisaw. For a 2nd year player to have the kind of year he's having is a pleasant surprise. 

Couple negative...

• ISJ injured AGAIN. But somehow we were able to turn that negative into a positive. Would we be as good right now if ISJ doesn't get hurt? I don't think so. 
• I thought the defense could be mid-level, but it's bottom level
• Thought KJO would have a bigger impact

Yeah, I thought Peterson was beyond done as well.  His veteran presence in that room has been huge.

Darrisaw flashed last year, but had no idea how good he could be.

@"StickyBun" said: Despite the intense KJ Osborn love here, I think he's just a guy. Not bad by any stretch but just meh. He's made a few nice plays for the team over the last 2 years for sure. Its tough to shine as the #3 WRer, admittedly. But he in no way has #2 ability IMO.

This is where I've always been with Osborn and why I felt like drafting a receiver early this year would have been beneficial. Osborn is not someone who is going to keep DC's up at night worrying about, he's really just another guy. Thielen isn't the same guy either, aging, and on the books for a large cap hit the next two seasons. He is realistocally on the roster for one more year where he will be 33 years old. I would have felt a whole lot better about things having Jameson Williams on the verge of returning for the stretch run this season and into the future. Instead we take a f'n safety who was running 4th on our depth chart before blowing out his ankle. There is just no good way to spin Kwesi's first draft, it's been a disaster, and the lack of impact is going to hurt this team 

@"badgervike" said:

@"MaroonBells" said:

@"StickyBun" said: Despite the intense KJ Osborn love here, I think he's just a guy. Not bad by any stretch but just meh. He's made a few nice plays for the team over the last 2 years for sure. Its tough to shine as the #3 WRer, admittedly. But he in no way has #2 ability IMO.

I think we're just now starting to see the offense open up a little. First half was JJ or bust. He was the security blanket. But as Cousins becomes more and more comfortable in this system, Dalvin, AT, KJO and TJH will become bigger pieces in it. 

Can KJO be a #2? Obviously depends on the team. Not in Cincinnati, but have you seen the WR rooms in Chicago? Detroit? Houston? Atlanta.....?

https://twitter.com/WillRagatz/status/1597388931041234944?s=20&t=pSPDyTUENi1bQb1OOJ-4cw

@"MaroonBells" said:

@"badgervike" said:

@"MaroonBells" said:

@"StickyBun" said: Despite the intense KJ Osborn love here, I think he's just a guy. Not bad by any stretch but just meh. He's made a few nice plays for the team over the last 2 years for sure. Its tough to shine as the #3 WRer, admittedly. But he in no way has #2 ability IMO.

I think we're just now starting to see the offense open up a little. First half was JJ or bust. He was the security blanket. But as Cousins becomes more and more comfortable in this system, Dalvin, AT, KJO and TJH will become bigger pieces in it. 

Can KJO be a #2? Obviously depends on the team. Not in Cincinnati, but have you seen the WR rooms in Chicago? Detroit? Houston? Atlanta.....?

https://twitter.com/WillRagatz/status/1597388931041234944?s=20&t=pSPDyTUENi1bQb1OOJ-4cw

That has a lot to do with the two guys ahead of him, don't ya think? There are 64 ones and twos in the NFL. To be ranked right on that border ain't too shabby considering the other targets in this offense. I think there are at least a handful of teams for whom he would be a WR2. 

@"badgervike" said:

@"MaroonBells" said:

@"badgervike" said:

@"MaroonBells" said:

@"StickyBun" said: Despite the intense KJ Osborn love here, I think he's just a guy. Not bad by any stretch but just meh. He's made a few nice plays for the team over the last 2 years for sure. Its tough to shine as the #3 WRer, admittedly. But he in no way has #2 ability IMO.

I think we're just now starting to see the offense open up a little. First half was JJ or bust. He was the security blanket. But as Cousins becomes more and more comfortable in this system, Dalvin, AT, KJO and TJH will become bigger pieces in it. 

Can KJO be a #2? Obviously depends on the team. Not in Cincinnati, but have you seen the WR rooms in Chicago? Detroit? Houston? Atlanta.....?

https://twitter.com/WillRagatz/status/1597388931041234944?s=20&t=pSPDyTUENi1bQb1OOJ-4cw

That has a lot to do with the two guys ahead of him, don't ya think? There are 64 ones and twos in the NFL. To be ranked right on that border ain't too shabby considering the other targets in this offense. I think there are at least a handful of teams for whom he would be a WR2. 

Yep...but near last of those receivers in passer rating and PFF grade...when you know he's never going against a double team like the others above him?

I think KJ's numbers reflect the plays being called for him too. He is the third, fourth and sometimes fifth option. Not really sure what some people expect but I believe he's doing his job well.

@"MaroonBells" said:

@"badgervike" said:

@"MaroonBells" said:

@"StickyBun" said: Despite the intense KJ Osborn love here, I think he's just a guy. Not bad by any stretch but just meh. He's made a few nice plays for the team over the last 2 years for sure. Its tough to shine as the #3 WRer, admittedly. But he in no way has #2 ability IMO.

I think we're just now starting to see the offense open up a little. First half was JJ or bust. He was the security blanket. But as Cousins becomes more and more comfortable in this system, Dalvin, AT, KJO and TJH will become bigger pieces in it. 

Can KJO be a #2? Obviously depends on the team. Not in Cincinnati, but have you seen the WR rooms in Chicago? Detroit? Houston? Atlanta.....?

https://twitter.com/WillRagatz/status/1597388931041234944?s=20&t=pSPDyTUENi1bQb1OOJ-4cw

That has a lot to do with the two guys ahead of him, don't ya think? There are 64 ones and twos in the NFL. To be ranked right on that border ain't too shabby considering the other targets in this offense. I think there are at least a handful of teams for whom he would be a WR2. 

I don’t hold anything against KJO or similarly Thielen.  I think the offense is pretty clearly
designed to feed Jefferson first, Hockenson is the safety blanket, and everyone
else is struggling to get touches.  I
like to think that KJO and Thielen will get more touches once Cousins gets a
better grasp of the offense, but I’m not sure that’s going to happen.  It’s just too easy to go to JJetta or
Hockenson and just never make it to the 3rd/4th read, especially
on those days where the OLine is struggling. 
I think in previous offenses, different receivers would be the primary
read on different plays, but on this offense JJetta is the primary read on
almost every play.

@"medaille" said: I don’t hold anything against KJO or similarly Thielen.  I think the offense is pretty clearly designed to feed Jefferson first, Hockenson is the safety blanket, and everyone else is struggling to get touches.  I like to think that KJO and Thielen will get more touches once Cousins gets a better grasp of the offense, but I’m not sure that’s going to happen.  It’s just too easy to go to JJetta or Hockenson and just never make it to the 3rd/4th read, especially on those days where the OLine is struggling.  I think in previous offenses, different receivers would be the primary read on different plays, but on this offense JJetta is the primary read on almost every play.

There's some 'Randy Ratio' in this thing. When JJ isn't open, Cousins still throws it to him sometimes and it's working out. As I mentioned about a month ago, Cousins is still processing this new offense.....he can be a tick slow to recognize. He'll get better.

I dont see KJs low numbers as a mark against him as much as it is against Kirk not getting the ball to him in good situations.  It was the same with AT a few weeks ago,  people were saying how he was washed up, etc,  but it was more a matter of him just not getting looked at by Cousins on most pass plays.  Its pretty obvious that JJ is the first, second,  and fourth reads on most of Kirk's passes.

@"JimmyinSD" said: I dont see KJs low numbers as a mark against him as much as it is against Kirk not getting the ball to him in good situations.  It was the same with AT a few weeks ago,  people were saying how he was washed up, etc,  but it was more a matter of him just not getting looked at by Cousins on most pass plays.  Its pretty obvious that JJ is the first, second,  and fourth reads on most of Kirk's passes.

This is true. And in an offense you're not entirely comfortable in, you're going to rely on your superstar even more. 

I think KOC and Cousins have to sort of force themselves to go through the progressions a little more. Or design more plays where JJ isn't the 1st read.  We do not want to go into the playoffs with such a huge reliance on one player.

Vikings should spend the last five games expanding the target share a little more. 

Cousins has also been praised for giving JJ those 50/50 balls more often - you know the gunslinger thing.

I think @medaille hit the nail on the head, this offense right now is JJ and then some TJH security blanket. Thats been good enough to get us to 9/2 (along with some fairy dust sprinkled in) so hard to complain. 

But for the stretch run and post-season it would be nice for KOC to start giving DC and Mattison more touches. Especially MAttison and his down-hill running style. 

Teams are going to double/triple team JJ and the AT's and KJO's hopefully will get more chances. 

@"purplefaithful" said: Cousins has also been praised for giving JJ those 50/50 balls more often - you know the gunslinger thing.

I think @medaille hit the nail on the head, this offense right now is JJ and then some TJH security blanket. Thats been good enough to get us to 9/2 (along with some fairy dust sprinkled in) so hard to complain. 

But for the stretch run and post-season it would be nice for KOC to start giving DC and Mattison more touches. Especially MAttison and his down-hill running style. 

Teams are going to double/triple team JJ and the AT's and KJO's hopefully will get more chances. 

we are at best a one and done team in the playoffs with our O the way it is currently running IMO.  I know I have been saying this since September ( and they keep winning despite him not doing it), but Kirk needs to be working the field opposite of JJ more, especially early in the games where we know teams games plans are going to be leaving our other receiving options with lighter coverage in order to try and take JJ away.  Or at the very least,  when JJ is running deeper patterns they need to be using the voids more that he creates in the underneath and intermediate areas.  Our O needs to show that if you take JJ away we can still hang 30 on your D and do it in a very efficient manner.

I am still looking for a signature win that says this team is coming into contender form,  depsite the record I am still super skeptical of just how good this team is.

@"Knucklehead" said: I pegged their ceiling at 9 wins. Definitely enjoying this ride. However, given the number of starters that are over 30 years old, I am concerned that it's not sustainable.

Yea I would have thought 9 wins tops as well, for the season.  

It does seem like a lot of our 30 year olds are on defense and many have not acclimated to the 3-4 that great. 

@"JimmyinSD" said:

@"purplefaithful" said: Cousins has also been praised for giving JJ those 50/50 balls more often - you know the gunslinger thing.

I think @medaille hit the nail on the head, this offense right now is JJ and then some TJH security blanket. Thats been good enough to get us to 9/2 (along with some fairy dust sprinkled in) so hard to complain. 

But for the stretch run and post-season it would be nice for KOC to start giving DC and Mattison more touches. Especially MAttison and his down-hill running style. 

Teams are going to double/triple team JJ and the AT's and KJO's hopefully will get more chances. 

I am still looking for a signature win that says this team is coming into contender form,  depsite the record I am still super skeptical of just how good this team is.

@"StickyBun" said: Despite the intense KJ Osborn love here, I think he's just a guy. Not bad by any stretch but just meh. He's made a few nice plays for the team over the last 2 years for sure. Its tough to shine as the #3 WRer, admittedly. But he in no way has #2 ability IMO.

This probably deserves its own thread but at some point JJ is going to be the highest paid WR in the league. When that day comes economics will dictate that the rest of the WR corps will have to be filled out w/ players like KJ, Nailor, rookies, etc.