Misc. Thoughts: Patriots

I dunno exactly when fans can say a player is legit,  but with Nwangwu as a KR'er,  he's there.

He and  the Special Teams flipped the momentum and  changed the game in 1 play. 

ST's have "FOR THE MOST PART" been a real bright spot...

@"VikingOracle" said: It is always weird watching a recorded game, you will tend to fast-forward to stuff you might really want to hear/watch.  For instance, I missed the Patriots TD being overturned as I walked away for a second figuring it was a touchdown only to come back as see the Patriots only got a field goal.  I honestly thought they had changed to call to a catch at the 1 yard line.  I was so anxious that I just fast-forwarded at that point to get to the Vikings next possession.  Now my thoughts:

• JJ Should Be Considered Strongly For MVP:  Purely from a wins/losses perspective, I can't think of only a few players who have a contributed to a teams record like JJ.  With all the 1 score games, without JJ the Vikes record would be well below 500.  Then, on top of that, though KOC gets some credit for unlocking Dark Cousins, clearly JJ should get a ton of credit for us seeing a different Cousins this year.  I can't recall a year where Cousins threw as many 50/50 balls as he did against the Patriots -- all to JJ.
• Defense:  I had hopes that the current personnel would grow into the current scheme and that we would see a much better defense as the year went on.  Now I am convinced that there are just a lot of players who don't fit the scheme.  It also sucks that your 1st and 2nd round picks, both on defense, are not contributing at all.  There are just too many square holes, round pegs.
• OLine:  You must be impressed how the OLine and coaching schemed for the Patriots on a short week and missing its best player.  I believe the Patrioys were second in the league in getting sacks going into the game.  That being said, the running game is a shell of its former self.   Maybe the limitation of training time has caused the coaching staff to pick either pass blocking or run blocking to emphasize.  Or perhaps Cook is not the ideal back for the run blocking scheme.
• Screen Game:  As I said last week, it is a stunning deterioration of the screen game from last year.  This OLine should be terrific at the screen game and they just aren't.  It is almost like there is a 'tell' with when the Vikes are going to throw a screen.
• Patrick P and Situational Football:  I loved PP's tackle of the wide receiver in the final drive and keeping the wr in bounds.  Perfect situational football.  What was not situational football: the Patriots Jakobi Meyers taking a knee on the final pass reception.  Pretty cool that the Vikes play better situational football than Belicheck's Patriots.

@"purplefaithful" said: ST's have "FOR THE MOST PART" been a real bright spot...

Let’s be real. Our punter is great. The rest of the special teams have been average or below. Like how we scored and then gave up a kick return past mid field. A few bright spots but nothing to crow about. 

@"Purpleblooded" said: Let’s be real. Our punter is great. The rest of the special teams have been average or below. Like how we scored and then gave up a kick return past mid field. A few bright spots but nothing to crow about. 

@"Mattyman" said: I dunno exactly when fans can say a player is legit,  but with Nwangwu as a KR'er,  he's there.

He and  the Special Teams flipped the momentum and  changed the game in 1 play. 

@"VikingOracle" said: It is always weird watching a recorded game, you will tend to fast-forward to stuff you might really want to hear/watch.  For instance, I missed the Patriots TD being overturned as I walked away for a second figuring it was a touchdown only to come back as see the Patriots only got a field goal.  I honestly thought they had changed to call to a catch at the 1 yard line.  I was so anxious that I just fast-forwarded at that point to get to the Vikings next possession.  Now my thoughts:

• JJ Should Be Considered Strongly For MVP:  Purely from a wins/losses perspective, I can't think of only a few players who have a contributed to a teams record like JJ.  With all the 1 score games, without JJ the Vikes record would be well below 500.  Then, on top of that, though KOC gets some credit for unlocking Dark Cousins, clearly JJ should get a ton of credit for us seeing a different Cousins this year.  I can't recall a year where Cousins threw as many 50/50 balls as he did against the Patriots -- all to JJ.
• Defense:  I had hopes that the current personnel would grow into the current scheme and that we would see a much better defense as the year went on.  Now I am convinced that there are just a lot of players who don't fit the scheme.  It also sucks that your 1st and 2nd round picks, both on defense, are not contributing at all.  There are just too many square holes, round pegs.
• OLine:  You must be impressed how the OLine and coaching schemed for the Patriots on a short week and missing its best player.  I believe the Patrioys were second in the league in getting sacks going into the game.  That being said, the running game is a shell of its former self.   Maybe the limitation of training time has caused the coaching staff to pick either pass blocking or run blocking to emphasize.  Or perhaps Cook is not the ideal back for the run blocking scheme.
• Screen Game:  As I said last week, it is a stunning deterioration of the screen game from last year.  This OLine should be terrific at the screen game and they just aren't.  It is almost like there is a 'tell' with when the Vikes are going to throw a screen.
• Patrick P and Situational Football:  I loved PP's tackle of the wide receiver in the final drive and keeping the wr in bounds.  Perfect situational football.  What was not situational football: the Patriots Jakobi Meyers taking a knee on the final pass reception.  Pretty cool that the Vikes play better situational football than Belicheck's Patriots.

One hidden gem that may be overlooked,  Dalvin playing D on that INT and forcing the return to run out of bounds.  He took on the blocker and held his ground.  The D then went on to force a FG.  Game changing plays are often small.

@"greediron" said:

@"VikingOracle" said: It is always weird watching a recorded game, you will tend to fast-forward to stuff you might really want to hear/watch.  For instance, I missed the Patriots TD being overturned as I walked away for a second figuring it was a touchdown only to come back as see the Patriots only got a field goal.  I honestly thought they had changed to call to a catch at the 1 yard line.  I was so anxious that I just fast-forwarded at that point to get to the Vikings next possession.  Now my thoughts:

• JJ Should Be Considered Strongly For MVP:  Purely from a wins/losses perspective, I can't think of only a few players who have a contributed to a teams record like JJ.  With all the 1 score games, without JJ the Vikes record would be well below 500.  Then, on top of that, though KOC gets some credit for unlocking Dark Cousins, clearly JJ should get a ton of credit for us seeing a different Cousins this year.  I can't recall a year where Cousins threw as many 50/50 balls as he did against the Patriots -- all to JJ.
• Defense:  I had hopes that the current personnel would grow into the current scheme and that we would see a much better defense as the year went on.  Now I am convinced that there are just a lot of players who don't fit the scheme.  It also sucks that your 1st and 2nd round picks, both on defense, are not contributing at all.  There are just too many square holes, round pegs.
• OLine:  You must be impressed how the OLine and coaching schemed for the Patriots on a short week and missing its best player.  I believe the Patrioys were second in the league in getting sacks going into the game.  That being said, the running game is a shell of its former self.   Maybe the limitation of training time has caused the coaching staff to pick either pass blocking or run blocking to emphasize.  Or perhaps Cook is not the ideal back for the run blocking scheme.
• Screen Game:  As I said last week, it is a stunning deterioration of the screen game from last year.  This OLine should be terrific at the screen game and they just aren't.  It is almost like there is a 'tell' with when the Vikes are going to throw a screen.
• Patrick P and Situational Football:  I loved PP's tackle of the wide receiver in the final drive and keeping the wr in bounds.  Perfect situational football.  What was not situational football: the Patriots Jakobi Meyers taking a knee on the final pass reception.  Pretty cool that the Vikes play better situational football than Belicheck's Patriots.

Honestly I think the D was growing into the scheme until the DB room started meeting in the medical room.  Scheme fit is an issue with our LBs especially, but being soft in coverage is a big issue.

@"Tyr" said:

@"greediron" said:

@"VikingOracle" said: It is always weird watching a recorded game, you will tend to fast-forward to stuff you might really want to hear/watch.  For instance, I missed the Patriots TD being overturned as I walked away for a second figuring it was a touchdown only to come back as see the Patriots only got a field goal.  I honestly thought they had changed to call to a catch at the 1 yard line.  I was so anxious that I just fast-forwarded at that point to get to the Vikings next possession.  Now my thoughts:

• JJ Should Be Considered Strongly For MVP:  Purely from a wins/losses perspective, I can't think of only a few players who have a contributed to a teams record like JJ.  With all the 1 score games, without JJ the Vikes record would be well below 500.  Then, on top of that, though KOC gets some credit for unlocking Dark Cousins, clearly JJ should get a ton of credit for us seeing a different Cousins this year.  I can't recall a year where Cousins threw as many 50/50 balls as he did against the Patriots -- all to JJ.
• Defense:  I had hopes that the current personnel would grow into the current scheme and that we would see a much better defense as the year went on.  Now I am convinced that there are just a lot of players who don't fit the scheme.  It also sucks that your 1st and 2nd round picks, both on defense, are not contributing at all.  There are just too many square holes, round pegs.
• OLine:  You must be impressed how the OLine and coaching schemed for the Patriots on a short week and missing its best player.  I believe the Patrioys were second in the league in getting sacks going into the game.  That being said, the running game is a shell of its former self.   Maybe the limitation of training time has caused the coaching staff to pick either pass blocking or run blocking to emphasize.  Or perhaps Cook is not the ideal back for the run blocking scheme.
• Screen Game:  As I said last week, it is a stunning deterioration of the screen game from last year.  This OLine should be terrific at the screen game and they just aren't.  It is almost like there is a 'tell' with when the Vikes are going to throw a screen.
• Patrick P and Situational Football:  I loved PP's tackle of the wide receiver in the final drive and keeping the wr in bounds.  Perfect situational football.  What was not situational football: the Patriots Jakobi Meyers taking a knee on the final pass reception.  Pretty cool that the Vikes play better situational football than Belicheck's Patriots.

Honestly I think the D was growing into the scheme until the DB room started meeting in the medical room.  Scheme fit is an issue with our LBs especially, but being soft in coverage is a big issue.

I thought they were too, but losing 3 CBs, Dalvin Tomlinson, and having Za'Darius Smith banged up really set back their progress. No team is healthy at this point of the season, but I am hopeful that we will start getting some key pieces back over the next couple games. The D has not been dominant this year, but they had been coming up with timely stops and turnovers, which was making a huge difference.

I do think we are probably a year or two away from having the right personnel for the D, but I think they are good enough when reasonably healthy.

@"AGRforever" said:

@"purplefaithful" said: ST's have "FOR THE MOST PART" been a real bright spot...

I cant see a future where we don’t have a new kicker next year. 

@"minny65" said:

@"Tyr" said:

@"greediron" said:

@"VikingOracle" said: It is always weird watching a recorded game, you will tend to fast-forward to stuff you might really want to hear/watch.  For instance, I missed the Patriots TD being overturned as I walked away for a second figuring it was a touchdown only to come back as see the Patriots only got a field goal.  I honestly thought they had changed to call to a catch at the 1 yard line.  I was so anxious that I just fast-forwarded at that point to get to the Vikings next possession.  Now my thoughts:

• JJ Should Be Considered Strongly For MVP:  Purely from a wins/losses perspective, I can't think of only a few players who have a contributed to a teams record like JJ.  With all the 1 score games, without JJ the Vikes record would be well below 500.  Then, on top of that, though KOC gets some credit for unlocking Dark Cousins, clearly JJ should get a ton of credit for us seeing a different Cousins this year.  I can't recall a year where Cousins threw as many 50/50 balls as he did against the Patriots -- all to JJ.
• Defense:  I had hopes that the current personnel would grow into the current scheme and that we would see a much better defense as the year went on.  Now I am convinced that there are just a lot of players who don't fit the scheme.  It also sucks that your 1st and 2nd round picks, both on defense, are not contributing at all.  There are just too many square holes, round pegs.
• OLine:  You must be impressed how the OLine and coaching schemed for the Patriots on a short week and missing its best player.  I believe the Patrioys were second in the league in getting sacks going into the game.  That being said, the running game is a shell of its former self.   Maybe the limitation of training time has caused the coaching staff to pick either pass blocking or run blocking to emphasize.  Or perhaps Cook is not the ideal back for the run blocking scheme.
• Screen Game:  As I said last week, it is a stunning deterioration of the screen game from last year.  This OLine should be terrific at the screen game and they just aren't.  It is almost like there is a 'tell' with when the Vikes are going to throw a screen.
• Patrick P and Situational Football:  I loved PP's tackle of the wide receiver in the final drive and keeping the wr in bounds.  Perfect situational football.  What was not situational football: the Patriots Jakobi Meyers taking a knee on the final pass reception.  Pretty cool that the Vikes play better situational football than Belicheck's Patriots.

Honestly I think the D was growing into the scheme until the DB room started meeting in the medical room.  Scheme fit is an issue with our LBs especially, but being soft in coverage is a big issue.

I thought they were too, but losing 3 CBs, Dalvin Tomlinson, and having Za'Darius Smith banged up really set back their progress. No team is healthy at this point of the season, but I am hopeful that we will start getting some key pieces back over the next couple games. The D has not been dominant this year, but they had been coming up with timely stops and turnovers, which was making a huge difference.

I do think we are probably a year or two away from having the right personnel for the D, but I think they are good enough when reasonably healthy.

Same here - thought the Def was starting to gel ahead of the offense in fact.  Now Kirk and the offense picked it up a notch in the win vs a tough Def in NE.  Jets' are actually a harder test IMO.

Are we getting any of those defensive guys back this week? 

@"Tyr" said:

@"minny65" said:

@"Tyr" said:

@"greediron" said:

@"VikingOracle" said: It is always weird watching a recorded game, you will tend to fast-forward to stuff you might really want to hear/watch.  For instance, I missed the Patriots TD being overturned as I walked away for a second figuring it was a touchdown only to come back as see the Patriots only got a field goal.  I honestly thought they had changed to call to a catch at the 1 yard line.  I was so anxious that I just fast-forwarded at that point to get to the Vikings next possession.  Now my thoughts:

• JJ Should Be Considered Strongly For MVP:  Purely from a wins/losses perspective, I can't think of only a few players who have a contributed to a teams record like JJ.  With all the 1 score games, without JJ the Vikes record would be well below 500.  Then, on top of that, though KOC gets some credit for unlocking Dark Cousins, clearly JJ should get a ton of credit for us seeing a different Cousins this year.  I can't recall a year where Cousins threw as many 50/50 balls as he did against the Patriots -- all to JJ.
• Defense:  I had hopes that the current personnel would grow into the current scheme and that we would see a much better defense as the year went on.  Now I am convinced that there are just a lot of players who don't fit the scheme.  It also sucks that your 1st and 2nd round picks, both on defense, are not contributing at all.  There are just too many square holes, round pegs.
• OLine:  You must be impressed how the OLine and coaching schemed for the Patriots on a short week and missing its best player.  I believe the Patrioys were second in the league in getting sacks going into the game.  That being said, the running game is a shell of its former self.   Maybe the limitation of training time has caused the coaching staff to pick either pass blocking or run blocking to emphasize.  Or perhaps Cook is not the ideal back for the run blocking scheme.
• Screen Game:  As I said last week, it is a stunning deterioration of the screen game from last year.  This OLine should be terrific at the screen game and they just aren't.  It is almost like there is a 'tell' with when the Vikes are going to throw a screen.
• Patrick P and Situational Football:  I loved PP's tackle of the wide receiver in the final drive and keeping the wr in bounds.  Perfect situational football.  What was not situational football: the Patriots Jakobi Meyers taking a knee on the final pass reception.  Pretty cool that the Vikes play better situational football than Belicheck's Patriots.

Honestly I think the D was growing into the scheme until the DB room started meeting in the medical room.  Scheme fit is an issue with our LBs especially, but being soft in coverage is a big issue.

I thought they were too, but losing 3 CBs, Dalvin Tomlinson, and having Za'Darius Smith banged up really set back their progress. No team is healthy at this point of the season, but I am hopeful that we will start getting some key pieces back over the next couple games. The D has not been dominant this year, but they had been coming up with timely stops and turnovers, which was making a huge difference.

I do think we are probably a year or two away from having the right personnel for the D, but I think they are good enough when reasonably healthy.

Same here - thought the Def was starting to gel ahead of the offense in fact.  Now Kirk and the offense picked it up a notch in the win vs a tough Def in NE.  Jets' are actually a harder test IMO.

Are we getting any of those defensive guys back this week? 

Tomlinson is supposed to be back and I'd expect that Evans will be back. The soonest Dantzler gets back is next week against Detroit, but I haven't heard anything recently on how his recovery is progressing.

I will add that the screen game has been really frustrating. They keep calling RB or TE screens and it seems like defenses are always sitting on them. It should have been a good way to counter teams with aggressive pass rushes, but it's been a major weakness for the offense this season.

@"HappyViking" said:

@"Tyr" said:

@"minny65" said:

@"Tyr" said:

@"greediron" said:

@"VikingOracle" said: It is always weird watching a recorded game, you will tend to fast-forward to stuff you might really want to hear/watch.  For instance, I missed the Patriots TD being overturned as I walked away for a second figuring it was a touchdown only to come back as see the Patriots only got a field goal.  I honestly thought they had changed to call to a catch at the 1 yard line.  I was so anxious that I just fast-forwarded at that point to get to the Vikings next possession.  Now my thoughts:

• JJ Should Be Considered Strongly For MVP:  Purely from a wins/losses perspective, I can't think of only a few players who have a contributed to a teams record like JJ.  With all the 1 score games, without JJ the Vikes record would be well below 500.  Then, on top of that, though KOC gets some credit for unlocking Dark Cousins, clearly JJ should get a ton of credit for us seeing a different Cousins this year.  I can't recall a year where Cousins threw as many 50/50 balls as he did against the Patriots -- all to JJ.
• Defense:  I had hopes that the current personnel would grow into the current scheme and that we would see a much better defense as the year went on.  Now I am convinced that there are just a lot of players who don't fit the scheme.  It also sucks that your 1st and 2nd round picks, both on defense, are not contributing at all.  There are just too many square holes, round pegs.
• OLine:  You must be impressed how the OLine and coaching schemed for the Patriots on a short week and missing its best player.  I believe the Patrioys were second in the league in getting sacks going into the game.  That being said, the running game is a shell of its former self.   Maybe the limitation of training time has caused the coaching staff to pick either pass blocking or run blocking to emphasize.  Or perhaps Cook is not the ideal back for the run blocking scheme.
• Screen Game:  As I said last week, it is a stunning deterioration of the screen game from last year.  This OLine should be terrific at the screen game and they just aren't.  It is almost like there is a 'tell' with when the Vikes are going to throw a screen.
• Patrick P and Situational Football:  I loved PP's tackle of the wide receiver in the final drive and keeping the wr in bounds.  Perfect situational football.  What was not situational football: the Patriots Jakobi Meyers taking a knee on the final pass reception.  Pretty cool that the Vikes play better situational football than Belicheck's Patriots.

Honestly I think the D was growing into the scheme until the DB room started meeting in the medical room.  Scheme fit is an issue with our LBs especially, but being soft in coverage is a big issue.

I thought they were too, but losing 3 CBs, Dalvin Tomlinson, and having Za'Darius Smith banged up really set back their progress. No team is healthy at this point of the season, but I am hopeful that we will start getting some key pieces back over the next couple games. The D has not been dominant this year, but they had been coming up with timely stops and turnovers, which was making a huge difference.

I do think we are probably a year or two away from having the right personnel for the D, but I think they are good enough when reasonably healthy.

Same here - thought the Def was starting to gel ahead of the offense in fact.  Now Kirk and the offense picked it up a notch in the win vs a tough Def in NE.  Jets' are actually a harder test IMO.

Are we getting any of those defensive guys back this week? 

Tomlinson is supposed to be back and I'd expect that Evans will be back. The soonest Dantzler gets back is next week against Detroit, but I haven't heard anything recently on how his recovery is progressing.

I will add that the screen game has been really frustrating. They keep calling RB or TE screens and it seems like defenses are always sitting on them. It should have been a good way to counter teams with aggressive pass rushes, but it's been a major weakness for the offense this season.

I've noticed how poorly our screen game is as well.  Something is tipping defenses off it seems so teams just aren't getting fooled, or maybe just poorly designed and/or executed?

Count me in as someone else underwhelmed and confused by our lack of screen game. It's weird that we can't get it going. I'm sure some of this is just my mind playing tricks on me but it does seem like other teams make these plays look fairly easy; meanwhile the Vikings have them blown up for losses or tiny gains.
On the flipside, I feel like KJ Osborne and others have had some nice end-arounds and reverses this year. More than I can remember in previous recent seasons. So that has been fun. And it was good to see a noticeable move to more quick throws against the Pats, especially on a short week. I like where our offense is at which is why the screen thing is so odd to me.

@"greediron" said:

I saw one that someone broke down on Twitter, looked to me like Ingram just failed to block the LB who the destroyed the play.

@"JR44" said:

@"greediron" said:

I saw one that someone broke down on Twitter, looked to me like Ingram just failed to block the LB who the destroyed the play.

That seems to happen often, it seems to an issue with all of our lineman and WRs as well, we just do not seem quick enough and aggressive enough to be making the blocks that need to be made.  Sometimes it just looks like guys are being lazy or expecting someone else to make the block.

6. Minnesota Vikings (9–2)Last week: win vs. New England, 33–26
Next week: vs. New York Jets
To make the Patriots’ defense look as silly as the Vikings did at times on Thanksgiving was significant. Bill Belichick has been calling some of the best defense in the NFL this year and saw his veterans get trapped in an accidental triple team.