Vikes @ Bills

You can keep gnawing on that old bone, Jimmy...  Or you can start to embrace this team might be different than years past.  We may not win it all this season, but you can still enjoy what appears to be an ascending team under a good young HC.  Lots to be optimistic about not only this year, but into the future. I wasn't expecting a Super Bowl this season, the fact that we're even in the conversation as a contender is pretty amazing actually.  But you do you, I'm not going to tell you how to feel about this team.

@"JimmyinSD" said:

@"jargomcfargo" said:

@"JimmyinSD" said:

@"greediron" said:

@"JimmyinSD" said:

@"MaroonBells" said:

@"Riphawkins" said:

@"jargomcfargo" said: Diggs is the big story line for me. After he worked his way out of Minnesota he and his team have been very successful.  First, I just want to see a W no matter how they get it. Second, I would love to see Jefferson have a big game.

This game will set the narrative. A win and the Vikings will be viewed nationally as a legitimate contender.
A loss and they will be viewed as no serious threat. Both scenarios are probably false, but the national media likes to use the past and stereotypes to classify teams.
The new Kings of the North are upsetting the preconceived expectations of many. Feels pretty good so far.

You’re absolutely correct when you say with a loss we will be viewed as no serious threat. Which is kind of weird since the Bills are supposed to be “that team” this year.
It’s kind of like losing the Super Bowl, you suck to fans of other teams and the media because you didn’t win, but were better than the other teams and actually got there.
I’d love a win, and I absolutely don’t care how they get it. Jefferson having a big game would finalize the Diggs leaving conversation. As much as I liked his stats, he is a bit of a diva, and is a bit chirpy during games. 

But if Allen sits, there will be yet another opportunity for fans and media to put an asterisk next to the Vikings...which is probably not a bad thing. Let everyone think we're overrated. 

But someone made a good point on twitter this morning. Keenum is a very good backup, and the rest of that team is stacked, on both sides of the ball. If we go into Buffalo and beat that team, Allen or no, that would be a very significant accomplishment. 

Keenum and Diggs have history together so its not like some rookie QB from podunk state getting his first real action.  I expect CK to look every bit as good as KC does to be honest.  Cases mobility and pocket presence will give our pass rushers fits which will let Diggs do his start stop and go like hell routes that give our DBs trouble.

Depends on the placement of the horseshoe.  Case was more lucky than good.  And when the luck runs out, he throws bad INTs.

This is the Vikings,  the team that hasnt put any team to bed this year and has played to the level of their competition,  and historically allows back up QBs to have career days.

Do you really still think it's that same team? They seem a little different this year.

I've been watching the Vikings since I can remember and I am nearly 50....the names of the coaches, players , etc have changed,  but the Vikings story hasn't.  Playing down to the level of the opponents and making shit QBs look better than they are is just kinda their thing for a long time now.

@"jargomcfargo" said:

@"JimmyinSD" said:

@"jargomcfargo" said:

@"JimmyinSD" said:

@"greediron" said:

@"JimmyinSD" said:

@"MaroonBells" said:

@"Riphawkins" said:

@"jargomcfargo" said: Diggs is the big story line for me. After he worked his way out of Minnesota he and his team have been very successful.  First, I just want to see a W no matter how they get it. Second, I would love to see Jefferson have a big game.

This game will set the narrative. A win and the Vikings will be viewed nationally as a legitimate contender.
A loss and they will be viewed as no serious threat. Both scenarios are probably false, but the national media likes to use the past and stereotypes to classify teams.
The new Kings of the North are upsetting the preconceived expectations of many. Feels pretty good so far.

You’re absolutely correct when you say with a loss we will be viewed as no serious threat. Which is kind of weird since the Bills are supposed to be “that team” this year.
It’s kind of like losing the Super Bowl, you suck to fans of other teams and the media because you didn’t win, but were better than the other teams and actually got there.
I’d love a win, and I absolutely don’t care how they get it. Jefferson having a big game would finalize the Diggs leaving conversation. As much as I liked his stats, he is a bit of a diva, and is a bit chirpy during games. 

But if Allen sits, there will be yet another opportunity for fans and media to put an asterisk next to the Vikings...which is probably not a bad thing. Let everyone think we're overrated. 

But someone made a good point on twitter this morning. Keenum is a very good backup, and the rest of that team is stacked, on both sides of the ball. If we go into Buffalo and beat that team, Allen or no, that would be a very significant accomplishment. 

Keenum and Diggs have history together so its not like some rookie QB from podunk state getting his first real action.  I expect CK to look every bit as good as KC does to be honest.  Cases mobility and pocket presence will give our pass rushers fits which will let Diggs do his start stop and go like hell routes that give our DBs trouble.

Depends on the placement of the horseshoe.  Case was more lucky than good.  And when the luck runs out, he throws bad INTs.

This is the Vikings,  the team that hasnt put any team to bed this year and has played to the level of their competition,  and historically allows back up QBs to have career days.

Do you really still think it's that same team? They seem a little different this year.

I've been watching the Vikings since I can remember and I am nearly 50....the names of the coaches, players , etc have changed,  but the Vikings story hasn't.  Playing down to the level of the opponents and making shit QBs look better than they are is just kinda their thing for a long time now.

Well son, I will be 71 in a week and I have been through all of that crap you mentioned above. I know the Vikings story very well. And I'm still a Vikings fan. I'm a day one Vikings fan. They may be the same old Vikings, but I haven't seen that yet, with the exception of the Eagles game.
What I have seen this year is progress. I haven't seen that for awhile.

@"1VikesFan" said:

@"jargomcfargo" said:

@"JimmyinSD" said:

@"jargomcfargo" said:

@"JimmyinSD" said:

@"greediron" said:

@"JimmyinSD" said:

@"MaroonBells" said:

@"Riphawkins" said:

@"jargomcfargo" said: Diggs is the big story line for me. After he worked his way out of Minnesota he and his team have been very successful.  First, I just want to see a W no matter how they get it. Second, I would love to see Jefferson have a big game.

This game will set the narrative. A win and the Vikings will be viewed nationally as a legitimate contender.
A loss and they will be viewed as no serious threat. Both scenarios are probably false, but the national media likes to use the past and stereotypes to classify teams.
The new Kings of the North are upsetting the preconceived expectations of many. Feels pretty good so far.

You’re absolutely correct when you say with a loss we will be viewed as no serious threat. Which is kind of weird since the Bills are supposed to be “that team” this year.
It’s kind of like losing the Super Bowl, you suck to fans of other teams and the media because you didn’t win, but were better than the other teams and actually got there.
I’d love a win, and I absolutely don’t care how they get it. Jefferson having a big game would finalize the Diggs leaving conversation. As much as I liked his stats, he is a bit of a diva, and is a bit chirpy during games. 

But if Allen sits, there will be yet another opportunity for fans and media to put an asterisk next to the Vikings...which is probably not a bad thing. Let everyone think we're overrated. 

But someone made a good point on twitter this morning. Keenum is a very good backup, and the rest of that team is stacked, on both sides of the ball. If we go into Buffalo and beat that team, Allen or no, that would be a very significant accomplishment. 

Keenum and Diggs have history together so its not like some rookie QB from podunk state getting his first real action.  I expect CK to look every bit as good as KC does to be honest.  Cases mobility and pocket presence will give our pass rushers fits which will let Diggs do his start stop and go like hell routes that give our DBs trouble.

Depends on the placement of the horseshoe.  Case was more lucky than good.  And when the luck runs out, he throws bad INTs.

This is the Vikings,  the team that hasnt put any team to bed this year and has played to the level of their competition,  and historically allows back up QBs to have career days.

Do you really still think it's that same team? They seem a little different this year.

I've been watching the Vikings since I can remember and I am nearly 50....the names of the coaches, players , etc have changed,  but the Vikings story hasn't.  Playing down to the level of the opponents and making shit QBs look better than they are is just kinda their thing for a long time now.

Well son, I will be 71 in a week and I have been through all of that crap you mentioned above. I know the Vikings story very well. And I'm still a Vikings fan. I'm a day one Vikings fan. They may be the same old Vikings, but I haven't seen that yet, with the exception of the Eagles game.
What I have seen this year is progress. I haven't seen that for awhile.

Yep, I am 66 and this team just feels different. 

L@"ArizonaViking" said:

@"1VikesFan" said:

@"jargomcfargo" said:

@"JimmyinSD" said:

@"jargomcfargo" said:

@"JimmyinSD" said:

@"greediron" said:

@"JimmyinSD" said:

@"MaroonBells" said:

@"Riphawkins" said:

@"jargomcfargo" said: Diggs is the big story line for me. After he worked his way out of Minnesota he and his team have been very successful.  First, I just want to see a W no matter how they get it. Second, I would love to see Jefferson have a big game.

This game will set the narrative. A win and the Vikings will be viewed nationally as a legitimate contender.
A loss and they will be viewed as no serious threat. Both scenarios are probably false, but the national media likes to use the past and stereotypes to classify teams.
The new Kings of the North are upsetting the preconceived expectations of many. Feels pretty good so far.

You’re absolutely correct when you say with a loss we will be viewed as no serious threat. Which is kind of weird since the Bills are supposed to be “that team” this year.
It’s kind of like losing the Super Bowl, you suck to fans of other teams and the media because you didn’t win, but were better than the other teams and actually got there.
I’d love a win, and I absolutely don’t care how they get it. Jefferson having a big game would finalize the Diggs leaving conversation. As much as I liked his stats, he is a bit of a diva, and is a bit chirpy during games. 

But if Allen sits, there will be yet another opportunity for fans and media to put an asterisk next to the Vikings...which is probably not a bad thing. Let everyone think we're overrated. 

But someone made a good point on twitter this morning. Keenum is a very good backup, and the rest of that team is stacked, on both sides of the ball. If we go into Buffalo and beat that team, Allen or no, that would be a very significant accomplishment. 

Keenum and Diggs have history together so its not like some rookie QB from podunk state getting his first real action.  I expect CK to look every bit as good as KC does to be honest.  Cases mobility and pocket presence will give our pass rushers fits which will let Diggs do his start stop and go like hell routes that give our DBs trouble.

Depends on the placement of the horseshoe.  Case was more lucky than good.  And when the luck runs out, he throws bad INTs.

This is the Vikings,  the team that hasnt put any team to bed this year and has played to the level of their competition,  and historically allows back up QBs to have career days.

Do you really still think it's that same team? They seem a little different this year.

I've been watching the Vikings since I can remember and I am nearly 50....the names of the coaches, players , etc have changed,  but the Vikings story hasn't.  Playing down to the level of the opponents and making shit QBs look better than they are is just kinda their thing for a long time now.

Well son, I will be 71 in a week and I have been through all of that crap you mentioned above. I know the Vikings story very well. And I'm still a Vikings fan. I'm a day one Vikings fan. They may be the same old Vikings, but I haven't seen that yet, with the exception of the Eagles game.
What I have seen this year is progress. I haven't seen that for awhile.

Yep, I am 66 and this team just feels different. 

I'm 63 and I do see the difference.  Realistically, I feel they're not ready for a Super Bowl appearance this year, but who knows.  The Vikings are heading in the right direction...

How is it different if they build you full of hope and then fall short?  They've done that over and over again for decades.  I'm not saying I am not enjoying the games or seeing a different attitude from last year,  but I still see a roster that isn't consistently enough playing up to what it should and to often playing below its expectations.  Its kinda funny getting chided by some  the same people that echo similar sentiment in other threads talking about next 4 games,  or other thoughts basically saying they aren't convinced of anything yet.

Are they exceeding my expectations for this year, yes.  Am I enjoying the games yes.  Do I think this team is ready to compete with the other teams they are getting compared again in playoff talk,   no,  not yet.  Even if we win this weekend there will now be the spector of getting them without Allen,  or at least with a severely reduced Allen.  I just want to see one win against a healthy quality opponent.

@"JimmyinSD" said: How is it different if they build you full of hope and then fall short?  They've done that over and over again for decades.  I'm not saying I am not enjoying the games or seeing a different attitude from last year,  but I still see a roster that isn't consistently enough playing up to what it should and to often playing below its expectations.  Its kinda funny getting chided by some  the same people that echo similar sentiment in other threads talking about next 4 games,  or other thoughts basically saying they aren't convinced of anything yet.

Are they exceeding my expectations for this year, yes.  Am I enjoying the games yes.  Do I think this team is ready to compete with the other teams they are getting compared again in playoff talk,   no,  not yet.  Even if we win this weekend there will now be the spector of getting them without Allen,  or at least with a severely reduced Allen.  I just want to see one win against a healthy quality opponent.

@"JimmyinSD" said: How is it different if they build you full of hope and then fall short?  They've done that over and over again for decades.  I'm not saying I am not enjoying the games or seeing a different attitude from last year,  but I still see a roster that isn't consistently enough playing up to what it should and to often playing below its expectations.  Its kinda funny getting chided by some  the same people that echo similar sentiment in other threads talking about next 4 games,  or other thoughts basically saying they aren't convinced of anything yet.

Are they exceeding my expectations for this year, yes.  Am I enjoying the games yes.  Do I think this team is ready to compete with the other teams they are getting compared again in playoff talk,   no,  not yet.  Even if we win this weekend there will now be the spector of getting them without Allen,  or at least with a severely reduced Allen.  I just want to see one win against a healthy quality opponent.

The biggest problem is protection. Again. We're just not picking up stunts or blitzes they way we need to. Improve that and you'll see the flashes string together.

That said, the defense is starting to come together a bit. Our achilles heel the last several years was our run defense. Vikings now rank 7th in run defense. In terms of pressures, no duo has been better than Z and Hunter. Also, like Cousins and the offense, the defense seems to rise to the occasion when it's needed most, like the drive before our game winning FG in DC. What is it you tell us 3 or 4 times a year? Good teams find a way to win?

I think the bottom line is that we're 7-1 when it's pretty obvious our best football is ahead of us. I just don't hear that in your comments, which sorta surprises me since you so correctly pointed out in the offseason that it was going to take time for the Vikings to learn the new schemes.

We came back from down 10 in the 4th quarter last week which is not the usual Viking game.  Going down by 10 was but the comeback was different and team building - IMO. 

That was the best defensive performance by our rebuilt defense to date.  About 250 yards (including stupid TD), 3 sacks, 1 Int/to is a nice stat sheet on the road no less.  Nice to see the young CB step-up.  If we could put that defensive performance together with a better offensive performance, we could see a complete game.  That being said the Wash DL was so dominant that it didn't really give our skills players a chance to shine/perform.  I still think JJ comes away with a few of those 50/50 balls most of the time.  I know others saw a ton of pass interference not called but even so JJ usually catches those.  

Bottom line for me is I saw progress on the Defensive side just in time for a stretch of games vs good Offenses.  I still think our Offensive is going to click big time very soon if we could just give Kirk more time in the pocket.  I don't know if we win that game without Hock as Kirk's much needed release valve from all the constant pressure.  ISJ and Mundt are not Hock after just one game and a bright future in this offense.  

@"minny65" said: We came back from down 10 in the 4th quarter last week which is not the usual Viking game.  Going down by 10 was but the comeback was different and team building - IMO. 

That was the best defensive performance by our rebuilt defense to date.  About 250 yards (including stupid TD), 3 sacks, 1 Int/to is a nice stat sheet on the road no less.  Nice to see the young CB step-up.  If we could put that defensive performance together with a better offensive performance, we could see a complete game.  That being said the Wash DL was so dominant that it didn't really give our skills players a chance to shine/perform.  I still think JJ comes away with a few of those 50/50 balls most of the time.  I know others saw a ton of pass interference not called but even so JJ usually catches those.  

Bottom line for me is I saw progress on the Defensive side just in time for a stretch of games vs good Offenses.  I still think our Offensive is going to click big time very soon if we could just give Kirk more time in the pocket.  I don't know if we win that game without Hock as Kirk's much needed release valve from all the constant pressure.  ISJ and Mundt are not Hock after just one game and a bright future in this offense.  

Obviously, Z'smith has been our Defensive MVP to date but Jordan Hicks is having an all-pro type year at the LB position.  Two new additions that have played in the 3-4 before which gives me hope of getting our veteran defenders more up to speed every week.  Kendrick's and Hunter have been playing better in recent weeks.  Harry has had a very good season and PP has 10 pass defensed to lead the team so we are starting to hit stride on all levels of Defense with the rebuild and new scheme.  

I'm going to be very very reserved on my thoughts on the team's success but what I've heard for years was that you want to be playing your best football come playoff time.
I think we can all agree that we've not played our best football yet.  Our team has the ability to play much much better.  Maybe just maybe, we get lucky and they "click" come playoff time. 

@"minny65" said: Obviously, Z'smith has been our Defensive MVP to date but Jordan Hicks is having an all-pro type year at the LB position.  Two new additions that have played in the 3-4 before which gives me hope of getting our veteran defenders more up to speed every week.  Kendrick's and Hunter have been playing better in recent weeks.  Harry has had a very good season and PP has 10 pass defensed to lead the team so we are starting to hit stride on all levels of Defense with the rebuild and new scheme.  

Agree, the D we've seen the past few weeks is night and day different then the D we saw the first 3ish weeks.

@"MaroonBells" said:

@"JimmyinSD" said: How is it different if they build you full of hope and then fall short?  They've done that over and over again for decades.  I'm not saying I am not enjoying the games or seeing a different attitude from last year,  but I still see a roster that isn't consistently enough playing up to what it should and to often playing below its expectations.  Its kinda funny getting chided by some  the same people that echo similar sentiment in other threads talking about next 4 games,  or other thoughts basically saying they aren't convinced of anything yet.

Are they exceeding my expectations for this year, yes.  Am I enjoying the games yes.  Do I think this team is ready to compete with the other teams they are getting compared again in playoff talk,   no,  not yet.  Even if we win this weekend there will now be the spector of getting them without Allen,  or at least with a severely reduced Allen.  I just want to see one win against a healthy quality opponent.

Vikings do need to play better, especially the offense. I think somebody once said "to whom much is given, much is expected." And we've loaded that side of the ball, so expectations are high. We see greatness in flashes, but it's not consistent. Yet. 

The biggest problem is protection. Again. We're just not picking up stunts or blitzes they way we need to. Improve that and you'll see the flashes string together.

That said, the defense is starting to come together a bit. Our achilles heel the last several years was our run defense. Vikings now rank 7th in run defense. In terms of pressures, no duo has been better than Z and Hunter. Also, like Cousins and the offense, the defense seems to rise to the occasion when it's needed most, like the drive before our game winning FG in DC. What is it you tell us 3 or 4 times a year? Good teams find a way to win?

I think the bottom line is that we're 7-1 when it's pretty obvious our best football is ahead of us. I just don't hear that in your comments, which sorta surprises me since you so correctly pointed out in the offseason that it was going to take time for the Vikings to learn the new schemes.

@"AGRforever" said:

I'm going to be very very reserved on my thoughts on the team's success but what I've heard for years was that you want to be playing your best football come playoff time. I think we can all agree that we've not played our best football yet.  Our team has the ability to play much much better.  Maybe just maybe, we get lucky and they "click" come playoff time. 

@"JimmyinSD" said:

@"MaroonBells" said:

@"JimmyinSD" said: How is it different if they build you full of hope and then fall short?  They've done that over and over again for decades.  I'm not saying I am not enjoying the games or seeing a different attitude from last year,  but I still see a roster that isn't consistently enough playing up to what it should and to often playing below its expectations.  Its kinda funny getting chided by some  the same people that echo similar sentiment in other threads talking about next 4 games,  or other thoughts basically saying they aren't convinced of anything yet.

Are they exceeding my expectations for this year, yes.  Am I enjoying the games yes.  Do I think this team is ready to compete with the other teams they are getting compared again in playoff talk,   no,  not yet.  Even if we win this weekend there will now be the spector of getting them without Allen,  or at least with a severely reduced Allen.  I just want to see one win against a healthy quality opponent.

Vikings do need to play better, especially the offense. I think somebody once said "to whom much is given, much is expected." And we've loaded that side of the ball, so expectations are high. We see greatness in flashes, but it's not consistent. Yet. 

The biggest problem is protection. Again. We're just not picking up stunts or blitzes they way we need to. Improve that and you'll see the flashes string together.

That said, the defense is starting to come together a bit. Our achilles heel the last several years was our run defense. Vikings now rank 7th in run defense. In terms of pressures, no duo has been better than Z and Hunter. Also, like Cousins and the offense, the defense seems to rise to the occasion when it's needed most, like the drive before our game winning FG in DC. What is it you tell us 3 or 4 times a year? Good teams find a way to win?

I think the bottom line is that we're 7-1 when it's pretty obvious our best football is ahead of us. I just don't hear that in your comments, which sorta surprises me since you so correctly pointed out in the offseason that it was going to take time for the Vikings to learn the new schemes.

because on the O,  I am not seeing the growth.   I see what I was expecting from the D,  but the O is still playing like its the 2nd game of the season instead of the 3rd month.  If this O is so difficult to learn that seasoned veterans are fucking regularly it up after 8 months,  maybe like Zimmers D at times it is just to complex and needs to be dumbed down,  or perhaps its just more than our players are able to handle at all.  its almost like we are running 2 play books,  1 we seem to have a pretty good grasp on that we use about 1/3 of the time,  the other we look like its the first install practice where everyone is green as hell.  I also wonder is Kirk getting the play changed in his helmet at the last minute is hampering him,  we are seeing him barely get the snap off on a lot of plays and even coming out of time outs we are seeing issues.  Kirk like we've seen in the past would be killing it this year,  but this new system has him stumped IMO and the lights just dont seem to be coming on very quickly.  I know the OL hasnt performed as we would like,  but the stumbling O is much more than just KC getting pressured to much.

The Vikings we know have been good at showing promise only to piss down their leg in the end. But I'm not going to get worked up about it before it even happens. Perhaps it's inevitable. But there is plenty of room for improvement and I chose to entertain that as a possibility.

Going to be ugly weather wise in Buffalo.
Snow/Rain mix, add 30 mph wind gusts.

@"Riphawkins" said:

59, and have been a Vikings fan for 49 of those years. Feels different this year. Not that they’ll win it all, but just different. No smoke and mirrors. I had faith that the Vikings could pull a win out the last three games. That was never the case in the past when they’d get down by a score or two.

I think KOC and Kwesi will be here a very long time. 

@"Kentis" said: take a look at who the Eagles have beaten, not very impressive either… alot of games left to be played!