Vike draft discussion -- Peter King

KAM played the numbers game. He increased the odds analytically. Whether that's the right decision or not, it's kind of why he was hired, to make outside the box decisions like this. Players need to play and play well, that's the case for every team in the Draft. 

Thanks for sharing I'm glad I waded through and read Kwesi's comments.  I like everything he said in response to the inter divisional trade downs and do not disagree at all.  Except I think we should have received more or at least given up less for the Lions move down.  The Packer move down and Kwesi's rationale is spot on and we ended up with the guy we wanted anyway - Booth.  Reminds me of the gamble Spelly took last year with the first round move down and still got the Tackle we probably would have taken anyway - Darrisaw.  

Overall, I like Kwesi's moves in the draft and free agency etc but I think he has done OK/decent.  I really don't see anything that Spelly would have done except I think Spelly would have had a better deal at 12 (with his Brothers team) I don't think I ever saw  Spelly not get at least equal or more value from all his trades - again I'll reference Darrisaw last year.

Of course, I am really pulling for him and I really like the hiring of KOC as HC just like I really liked Spelly hiring Zimmer back in the day.  I was done with Zimmer 3 years ago.  I wanted an Offensive and younger mind so KOC fits that bill.  I think we need to manage expectation on KOC being a rookie HC and never really calling plays.  

I mean I guess we'll see what happens in three years, but Kwesi certainly opened himself up for additional criticism if this blows up and these draft picks and all the trades end up helping out our rivals more then us. It was not considered to be a great draft so trading down and acquiring additional lower picks in a draft not deep on impact players was strange on top of allowing Detroit and Green Bay to move up. He'll either be the smartest man in the room or the dumbest man in the room. There's really no in between with these draft decisions. 

We had traded several times with the Lions during the draft in previous years and there was never any issues that were brought up by anyone regarding it - the difference is that in those trades we won out on the trades in regards to value.  If Kwesi had gotten the value you would expect with trading down 20 spots in the first round, this would be a none issue.  For someone who is suppose to be an analytics guy, he is not very good at maximizing capital.  

"I’m not dumb. I know every touchdown catch scores against us, TV will show me or show my name. That’s life. If my feelings are going to get in the way of us making decisions to improve the team, I shouldn’t be in this seat."

Spot on. 

@"MaroonBells" said: "I’m not dumb. I know every touchdown catch scores against us, TV will show me or show my name. That’s life. If my feelings are going to get in the way of us making decisions to improve the team, I shouldn’t be in this seat."

Spot on. 

KAM probably getting to the point where he's tired of hearing all the backlash about the trades...

@"ArizonaViking" said: KAM probably getting to the point where he's tired of hearing all the backlash about the trades...

I'll admit, I had a man crush on Kyle Hamilton.  But at this point I'm honestly over it.  Its not like we can change anything about them and we've got what we've got. 

It's fascinating how polarizing he is. Change was needed and yet some people are pissed at the change. Also nothing is overnight. He inherited a mess and that's a factor. The scouting department couldn't be altered before the draft and that's a factor. There is some outside the box stuff and there is some typical stuff that KAM is doing. The trades with division rivals really stand out but it shows some cajones. Time will tell how it plays out. There is a new VP of football operations now too. I am looking forward to seeing how things work out.

@"AGRforever" said:

@"ArizonaViking" said: KAM probably getting to the point where he's tired of hearing all the backlash about the trades...

I'll admit, I had a man crush on Kyle Hamilton.  But at this point I'm honestly over it.  Its not like we can change anything about them and we've got what we've got. 

Geez, who woulda thunk AWJ was going to play like an emerging star? 

"dripping sarcasm"

@"Vikergirl" said: It's fascinating how polarizing he is. Change was needed and yet some people are pissed at the change. Also nothing is overnight. He inherited a mess and that's a factor. The scouting department couldn't be altered before the draft and that's a factor. There is some outside the box stuff and there is some typical stuff that KAM is doing. The trades with division rivals really stand out but it shows some cajones. Time will tell how it plays out. There is a new VP of football operations now too. I am looking forward to seeing how things work out.

Na, I was entirely onboard with KAM until the Detroit trade.  12 -> 32 with very little compensation was f$%&*ing nuts. 

@"AGRforever" said:

@"Vikergirl" said: It's fascinating how polarizing he is. Change was needed and yet some people are pissed at the change. Also nothing is overnight. He inherited a mess and that's a factor. The scouting department couldn't be altered before the draft and that's a factor. There is some outside the box stuff and there is some typical stuff that KAM is doing. The trades with division rivals really stand out but it shows some cajones. Time will tell how it plays out. There is a new VP of football operations now too. I am looking forward to seeing how things work out.

Na, I was entirely onboard with KAM until the Detroit trade.  12 -> 32 with very little compensation was f$%&*ing nuts. 

@"AGRforever" said:

@"Vikergirl" said: It's fascinating how polarizing he is. Change was needed and yet some people are pissed at the change. Also nothing is overnight. He inherited a mess and that's a factor. The scouting department couldn't be altered before the draft and that's a factor. There is some outside the box stuff and there is some typical stuff that KAM is doing. The trades with division rivals really stand out but it shows some cajones. Time will tell how it plays out. There is a new VP of football operations now too. I am looking forward to seeing how things work out.

Na, I was entirely onboard with KAM until the Detroit trade.  12 -> 32 with very little compensation was f$%&*ing nuts. 

@"purplefaithful" said: Geez, who woulda thunk AWJ was going to play like an emerging star? 

"dripping sarcasm"

@"purplefaithful" said:

@"AGRforever" said:

@"Vikergirl" said: It's fascinating how polarizing he is. Change was needed and yet some people are pissed at the change. Also nothing is overnight. He inherited a mess and that's a factor. The scouting department couldn't be altered before the draft and that's a factor. There is some outside the box stuff and there is some typical stuff that KAM is doing. The trades with division rivals really stand out but it shows some cajones. Time will tell how it plays out. There is a new VP of football operations now too. I am looking forward to seeing how things work out.

Na, I was entirely onboard with KAM until the Detroit trade.  12 -> 32 with very little compensation was f$%&*ing nuts. 

Yup, that lack of compensation for moving down with Kitties is still raw for me too...Not a fan of the move, doesnt mean I am still not a fan of KAM...

This new regime cant be judged till 2-3 seasons have passed. I am hopeful and now its KOC's turn to be center stage. 

Wilfs looked to have hired bright leaders who are brave, curious and calculating. 

@"purplefaithful" said:

@"AGRforever" said:

@"Vikergirl" said: It's fascinating how polarizing he is. Change was needed and yet some people are pissed at the change. Also nothing is overnight. He inherited a mess and that's a factor. The scouting department couldn't be altered before the draft and that's a factor. There is some outside the box stuff and there is some typical stuff that KAM is doing. The trades with division rivals really stand out but it shows some cajones. Time will tell how it plays out. There is a new VP of football operations now too. I am looking forward to seeing how things work out.

Na, I was entirely onboard with KAM until the Detroit trade.  12 -> 32 with very little compensation was f$%&*ing nuts. 

Yup, that lack of compensation for moving down with Kitties is still raw for me too...Not a fan of the move, doesnt mean I am still not a fan of KAM...

This new regime cant be judged till 2-3 seasons have passed. I am hopeful and now its KOC's turn to be center stage. 

Wilfs looked to have hired bright leaders who are brave, curious and calculating. 

And then you've got this perspective. IMO, this guy's way overboard. I thought Kwesi should've gotten more out of Detroit, but overall I'm not going to hammer him too much. Hopefully it's a learning lesson for next time
https://thedraftnetwork.com/minnesota-vikings-worst-draft-in-nfc-north-2022/

Who would’ve guessed the Minnesota Vikings would control the near- and long-term outlook in the NFC North during the 2022 NFL Draft? Armed with the 12th pick in the first round, the Vikings were a good bet to land Notre Dame safety Kyle Hamilton with their premium selection. But that’s not how things worked out, and the NFC North (including the Vikings) will pay for it.
Rather than take Hamilton or another premier prospect in the top-15, Minnesota traded down – all the way down – with the Detroit Lions. They swapped the 12th pick for the 32nd, allowing Detroit to move up and select the most explosive playmaker in the class: Alabama wide receiver Jameson Williams.
The Vikings’ decision to swap picks with the Lions was bizarre for a couple of reasons. First, and most obvious, is the whole in-division thing. It’s taboo for a team to trade within its own conference, let alone the same division. But, hey, trust the numbers, right?
Then comes the actual trade itself. Minnesota received the 32nd, 34th and 66th picks from the Lions for No. 12 and 46. Even the casual fan recognizes how bad that value is. Calculators lie sometimes. Draft trade charts are dated and inexact. And sometimes, it just takes common sense to know what a good trade offer looks like. This was a classic case of overanalysis.
The Vikings used their first-round pick – No. 32 – on Georgia safety Lewis Cine and kept trading down in the second round until eventually selecting Clemson cornerback Andrew Booth Jr., LSU guard Ed Ingram and Oklahoma linebacker Brian Asamoah in the third.
By the way, we’ll come back to the Vikings’ second-round trades in a second.
The Lions, meanwhile, flipped the trade into an elite offensive weapon. Williams will come back to haunt Minnesota’s front office two times per year and remind rookie General Manager Kwesi Adofo-Mensah that his analytics-over-rivalry strategy belongs in a burning dumpster.
Sadly, we aren’t finished. Adofo-Mensah committed what may have been the ultimate sin of the 2022 NFL Draft in the second round. He allowed the Green Bay Packers to trade up and draft a wide receiver for Aaron Rodgers: North Dakota State’s Christian Watson.
The Packers focused on defense with their two first-round picks, which left football media fearing another draft would come and go without investment in Rodgers. Had the Vikings not double-dipped with trades in the NFC North, we could be looking at a Green Bay roster with only Sammy Watkins as a potential go-to-guy. Now, Rodgers will throw dimes to Watson, one of the most physically gifted pass-catchers in this year’s class.
Two trades in the NFC North. Two trades that resulted in rival offenses adding explosive downfield playmakers. The Vikings expedited Detroit’s rebuild and they gave Rodgers a sportscar on a rookie contract.
Way to go (insert sarcastic slow-clap).
The poor Chicago Bears, a team that’s already behind the proverbial eight-ball on offense. They didn’t deserve this. Second-year quarterback Justin Fields doesn’t have much aside from receiver Darnell Mooney to throw to this year and now he has to match big plays in an NFC North that boasts Williams and Watson. And it’s not like the Packers and Lions can pop bottles of champagne, either. Green Bay has to face Williams; Detroit has to face Watson; Finkle is Einhorn. You get the point.
But the biggest loser in the NFC North is the Vikings. And they did it to themselves. Imagine Minnesota’s offense with Williams lining up across from Justin Jefferson? Imagine if Hamilton was in their secondary to, you know, stop those opposing NFC North offenses? Sure, Cine is a good player and he’ll be a good starter. But Hamilton has special upside. Williams has special upside. Now, we’ll see what a Vikings secondary without Hamilton can do to stop NFC North offenses with Williams and Watson.
This didn’t have to happen. Minnesota didn’t need to blow up the NFC North. They could’ve played nice, stayed in their lane and done what every team throughout modern draft history does: don’t make trades within your division that will haunt you for years to come.

@"AGRforever" said:

@"purplefaithful" said:

@"AGRforever" said:

@"Vikergirl" said: It's fascinating how polarizing he is. Change was needed and yet some people are pissed at the change. Also nothing is overnight. He inherited a mess and that's a factor. The scouting department couldn't be altered before the draft and that's a factor. There is some outside the box stuff and there is some typical stuff that KAM is doing. The trades with division rivals really stand out but it shows some cajones. Time will tell how it plays out. There is a new VP of football operations now too. I am looking forward to seeing how things work out.

Na, I was entirely onboard with KAM until the Detroit trade.  12 -> 32 with very little compensation was f$%&*ing nuts. 

Yup, that lack of compensation for moving down with Kitties is still raw for me too...Not a fan of the move, doesnt mean I am still not a fan of KAM...

This new regime cant be judged till 2-3 seasons have passed. I am hopeful and now its KOC's turn to be center stage. 

Wilfs looked to have hired bright leaders who are brave, curious and calculating. 

They get a pass this year regardless of what happens.  If going into year two we're saying WTF every Sunday, it wont take 2-3 seasons. 

The Draft Network article pretty much sums up how I felt at the time. I've calmed down a little since then. The only way the Detroit trade quiets down for Kwesi the Clown is if Williams doesn't regain his explosiveness after he fully recovers from his ACL surgery, or struggles to stay healthy. That's a big gamble but after thinking about it more it may have been the right decision to trade down but he still didn't get good value for doing it. Putting that aside for now, Williams is listed at 179 lbs. He and Jefferson are the same height but JJ is 20 lbs heavier which can make a difference for durability. I already read a report out of Detroit doubting he will be ready to go for week 1 as they are taking it very slow with his rehab. 3 WR's were taken before Detroit moved up and selected Williams. As gifted as he is, several WR needy teams took a pass on him. When healthy, he was pretty much the consensus #1 WR talent in this draft. Did the ACL really scare those other teams away or were there other reasons why he dropped? We will find out and it will be interesting to see what he does in Detroit. He still has Goff throwing him the ball and it is the Lions after all. 

I'm not as worried about Watson as Rodgers will likely be gone from Green Bay after his Rookie Season.