Cousins Trade?

@"PapaScott" said: Any sauce to a trade with the Panthers for KC and Adam Thielen for 1st round pick 22' and 1st and 2nd rd pick23' ?

I doubt it.  If you were the panthers would you do that?  In addition, we'd have to take Sam Darnold's salary to make it work. 

Yeah there’s almost no chance they’d take Thielen. He makes a lot of money and is 32 I believe. He has more value on the Vikings than he does on any other team.

Kirk they may want, but I’m not sure their roster is ready to “win-now” enough to actually pull the trigger on a deal. 

The Panthers pick #6 and I do not see any way they are giving up that pick unless they were swapping it for our 12.

@"JR44" said: The Panthers pick #6 and I do not see any way they are giving up that pick unless they were swapping it for our 12.

I wouldn't give up Thielen for that swap, let alone Kirk lol. 

If you are the Panthers though, you are literally a QB away from owning that division. Bucs don't have Brady and cap problems, Saints don't have a QB and are in cap hell, and if Matt Ryan and a mediocre Falcons roster is your biggest competition in the division...you have to go get a QB, becaise thats a really good roster otherwise. That and Matt Rhule is on the hot seat and its now or never for him. Cousins makes more sense then say Garoppollo from a durability standpoint and wouldn't cost as much in trade compensation as DeSean Watson or Kyler Murray. So it's not a surprise they made a phone call to gage interest. I'm sure the Vikings probably shut it down as they are in the process of evaluating roster options and how to best get under the cap and keep the players they want. I wouldn't be surprised to maybe see this spark up again as it gets closer to free agency. 

Carolina doesn't have their 2nd or 3rd round picks in this year's draft. Their #6 overall pick is their only pick in the top 100. If I'm doing this trade & keeping in mind that future picks are devalued by at least one round, it looks like this:

Carolina gets;
KC
#12 overall pick in 2022

Minny gets:
Darnold
#6 overall pick in 2022
2023 1st round pick
2024 1st round pick

This package for Minny is comparable to the package that Detroit received for Stafford (2 firsts, a third & Goff). Furthermore with KC, Carolina is likely to win a minimum of 9 games in both 2023 & 2024, so their 1st round picks will be in the bottom halves of those drafts.

If Minny could swing a trade like this, it would give them 2 first round picks in both 2023 & 2024 which would be plenty of ammo to move up in the 2023 to pursue their QBOTF.

The 2022 season would be a write-off w/ Darnold & Mond as your QBs.  

@"Knucklehead" said: Carolina doesn't have their 2nd or 3rd round picks in this year's draft. Their #6 overall pick is their only pick in the top 100. If I'm doing this trade & keeping in mind that future picks are devalued by at least one round, it looks like this:

Carolina gets;
KC
#12 overall pick in 2022

Minny gets:
Darnold
#6 overall pick in 2022
2023 1st round pick
2024 1st round pick

This package for Minny is comparable to the package that Detroit received for Stafford (2 firsts, a third & Goff). Furthermore with KC, Carolina is likely to win a minimum of 9 games in both 2023 & 2024, so their 1st round picks will be in the bottom halves of those drafts.

If Minny could swing a trade like this, it would give them 2 first round picks in both 2023 & 2024 which would be plenty of ammo to move up in the 2023 to pursue their QBOTF.

The 2022 season would be a write-off w/ Darnold & Mond as your QBs.  

I would suspect Carolina wouldnt do it though. 

@"AGRforever" said:

@"Knucklehead" said: Carolina doesn't have their 2nd or 3rd round picks in this year's draft. Their #6 overall pick is their only pick in the top 100. If I'm doing this trade & keeping in mind that future picks are devalued by at least one round, it looks like this:

Carolina gets;
KC
#12 overall pick in 2022

Minny gets:
Darnold
#6 overall pick in 2022
2023 1st round pick
2024 1st round pick

This package for Minny is comparable to the package that Detroit received for Stafford (2 firsts, a third & Goff). Furthermore with KC, Carolina is likely to win a minimum of 9 games in both 2023 & 2024, so their 1st round picks will be in the bottom halves of those drafts.

If Minny could swing a trade like this, it would give them 2 first round picks in both 2023 & 2024 which would be plenty of ammo to move up in the 2023 to pursue their QBOTF.

The 2022 season would be a write-off w/ Darnold & Mond as your QBs.  

I would do that trade and I’m against trading Kirk….unless the plan is to impode the roster. 

I would suspect Carolina wouldnt do it though. 

I wouldn’t do that trade, not enough now in return. You’re giving up a franchise QB. There are currently around 13 or so QB’s that fit that title. They are extremely rare and exceptionally difficult to get your hands on. 
Cousins had the 9th rated QBR and the 4th rated QB rating in the league with our offensive line and questionable play calling. . 
What I would take:

2022: 1st round pick #6 overall
2023: 1st round pick 
2023: 3rd round pick 

2022 is one of the better drafts for DE’s/Edge rushers. CB talent at the top is good. This would allow two first round picks in the first 12 with high talent at two positions of needs staring you in the face. I wouldn’t do any deal without that 6th pick. With no swap and no conditions. Cousins is as healthy as they come, they can take 00% of the injury risk, not us. 
2023: You have two picks to help build firepower to get a QB. Of course we probably won’t need it because we’ll be picking high with no QB and a young developing defense. 
Lastly Darnold. We gotta have someone besides just Mond. He’s relatively valueless in this equation.

so your saying there is no sauce

Just my guess, but Kwesi's going to want to build this thing for the long term with he and OConnell's own vision, and that's a long term vision...not just this year. I don't think they will want to drag this on with Cousins or keep revisiting this same issue every offseason. I'm guessing they will try to get him to sign an extension but if the numbers don't work they will trade him. Right now Kirk's let it be known he won't take a reduction in salary. So if that's true, I'd expect him to be traded and for the Vikings to get off the Cousins salary carousel. I think that's the best option but that's also banking on Kwesi and OConnell bringing in their own guy at quarterback and getting it right in the next couple years. That's a big gamble, but its also a gamble shuffling Cousins salary while trying to sign our own free agents and upgrade the overall roster talent. 

Food for thought; Mike Zimmer had a 39-25 record with two division titles before Kirk Cousins got to Minnesota. Did that with Bridgewater, Bradford, and Case Keenum. Zimmers record in four seasons with Cousins...33-31 with zero division titles. We have not been a better team with Kirk Cousins as our quarterback. 

@"supafreak84" said: Food for thought; Mike Zimmer had a 39-25 record with two division titles before Kirk Cousins got to Minnesota. Did that with Bridgewater, Bradford, and Case Keenum. Zimmers record in four seasons with Cousins...33-31 with zero division titles. We have not been a better team with Kirk Cousins as our quarterback. 

Cousins is a coach killer IMO.

@"supafreak84: We have not been a better team with Kirk Cousins as our quarterback. 

@"supafreak84" said: Just my guess, but Kwesi's going to want to build this thing for the long term with he and OConnell's own vision, and that's a long term vision...not just this year. I don't think they will want to drag this on with Cousins or keep revisiting this same issue every offseason. I'm guessing they will try to get him to sign an extension but if the numbers don't work they will trade him. Right now Kirk's let it be known he won't take a reduction in salary. So if that's true, I'd expect him to be traded and for the Vikings to get off the Cousins salary carousel. I think that's the best option but that's also banking on Kwesi and OConnell bringing in their own guy at quarterback and getting it right in the next couple years. That's a big gamble, but its also a gamble shuffling Cousins salary while trying to sign our own free agents and upgrade the overall roster talent. 

Food for thought; Mike Zimmer had a 39-25 record with two division titles before Kirk Cousins got to Minnesota. Did that with Bridgewater, Bradford, and Case Keenum. Zimmers record in four seasons with Cousins...33-31 with zero division titles. We have not been a better team with Kirk Cousins as our quarterback. 

We need a button on here for when a discussion turns into the "Zimmer had a record of X before Cousins and X with Cousins" so that we can halt the conversation. Team Game.

@"PapaScott" said:

@"supafreak84: We have not been a better team with Kirk Cousins as our quarterback. 

interesting observation, there is probably other circumstances that effected that record so not sure I would pin that on Kirk.  if you factor in this season and the piss poor defense in the end of the first and second half of games that record of 4 years with cousins probably falls more in line with the 1st 4 years without him.

@"PapaScott" said:

@"supafreak84: We have not been a better team with Kirk Cousins as our quarterback. 

interesting observation, there is probably other circumstances that effected that record so not sure I would pin that on Kirk.  if you factor in this season and the piss poor defense in the end of the first and second half of games that record of 4 years with cousins probably falls more in line with the 1st 4 years without him.

@"supafreak84" said:

@"PapaScott" said:

@"supafreak84: We have not been a better team with Kirk Cousins as our quarterback. 

interesting observation, there is probably other circumstances that effected that record so not sure I would pin that on Kirk.  if you factor in this season and the piss poor defense in the end of the first and second half of games that record of 4 years with cousins probably falls more in line with the 1st 4 years without him.

Not all Kirk's fault, but his salary has caused ripples on the roster. Just looking at the 2019 roster for example, there's a lot of guys that left in free agency and one in particular that forced his way out in partial because of his relationship with Cousins (Diggs). Linval Joseph, Rhodes, Ant Harris, Trae Waynes, Rudolph, Riley Reiff, etc. We've had to use draft capital trying to replace these positions at a bargain price because we have been paying Kirk like a top 5 QB. I think this was the big problem Zimmer had. Paying that kind of money to a QB that hadn't won anything at the expense of some key roster pieces. This is going to continue to be an issue going forward with his contract and I just don't see Kwesi and all his analytical accumen buying into that formula. If Cousins won't "play ball" with us at this point, then facilitating his exit via trade makes all the sense in the world. I don't care if that means we suffer next year with Kellen Mond, Kenny Pickett, or some free agent stop gap under center. Getting off that contract is the real prize and the best way to build the roster moving forward. 

Let me throw a possible trade scenario out there. It's been widely reported the Redskins...err, Commando's will trade "anybody and everybody" to secure a upper level quarterback this offseason. Nobody is off limits. With that in mind, and the fact that they have 32 million dollars in cap space..what about this:

Commanders acquire:

- QB Kirk Cousins
- DE Danielle Hunter

Vikings acquire:

- DE/OLB Chase Young
- 1st round pick in 2022 (11th)
- Conditional 2nd round pick in 2023 that could bump up to a 1st depending on Cousins performance/playing time 

I think this is a move that would be hugely beneficial to both teams. 

@"JimmyinSD" said:

@"supafreak84" said: Just my guess, but Kwesi's going to want to build this thing for the long term with he and OConnell's own vision, and that's a long term vision...not just this year. I don't think they will want to drag this on with Cousins or keep revisiting this same issue every offseason. I'm guessing they will try to get him to sign an extension but if the numbers don't work they will trade him. Right now Kirk's let it be known he won't take a reduction in salary. So if that's true, I'd expect him to be traded and for the Vikings to get off the Cousins salary carousel. I think that's the best option but that's also banking on Kwesi and OConnell bringing in their own guy at quarterback and getting it right in the next couple years. That's a big gamble, but its also a gamble shuffling Cousins salary while trying to sign our own free agents and upgrade the overall roster talent. 

Food for thought; Mike Zimmer had a 39-25 record with two division titles before Kirk Cousins got to Minnesota. Did that with Bridgewater, Bradford, and Case Keenum. Zimmers record in four seasons with Cousins...33-31 with zero division titles. We have not been a better team with Kirk Cousins as our quarterback. 

have you seen anything to support that claim?  I saw that on another site,  but there was no linked support so I didnt share it here,  it claimed that we wants a 40 mill per year average if he is going to play ball with the Vikings on an extension to create cap space this year... again NO SUPPORTING EVIDENCE that this was actually said.