If Stafford Can Do It

@"Norse" said: Cousins has had 4 years to take us to the Super Bowl. How many more years you need  :3 :3

Matthew Stafford cap hit is 23M this year & the Rams traded multiple picks to “build the team.” Get back to me when Kirk is willing to cut his next year cap hit in half.

@"Chuckf" said:

@"Havoc1649" said: Cousins is not why we are out of the playoffs and a championship caliber team. I don’t understand how this is so difficult for people to get their heads around. I get that it is easier to blame one person from an emotional standpoint. However, an objective look at what is wrong with our team clearly shows the defense as the reason we consistently lost close games all year. They were truly bad and we had a coach who refused to play the superior players (Breeland over Dantzler) or bring out a team prepared to play at a high level. 

The San Francisco 49ers led by Cousins this year is likely a Super Bowl favorite. Unfortunately for them, they had a QB who routinely made bonehead plays that risked their games and it finally caught up with them. Cousins can win a championship, but he has to play on a balanced team (like every other QB). Like Stafford until now, he hasn’t been afforded that luxury. For whatever reason, it seems like many Viking fans really struggle to appreciate what they have. As for me, if a coach and GM cannot win with a QB who performs like Cousins, they are the problem and thank god the ownership finally caught on to that. Cousins is far from perfect, but he’s plenty good enough to be playing in a Super Bowl. Cousins and our offensive skill position players are all more than capable. They just need some help from the other side.  The one legit complaint regarding Cousins is that contract. He has to be willing to be in it for the team and sign a deal that is compatible with putting together a winning combination. If he does, there’s no reason why this team isn’t competitive next year. If the coaches and GM are worth a shit, this is not a difficult turnaround. 

EXACTLY!  Cousins has made in the neighborhood of $220 million in his career.  Give a really good hometown discount and it would endear him to the fans as well as other players.   Give the Vikings some room to manuever for a couple of high quality free agents and lock up some of our better young players.  Thielen and Smith should also come to the table.   

@"Norse" said: Cousins has had 4 years to take us to the Super Bowl. How many more years you need  :3 :3

Matthew Stafford cap hit is 23M this year & the Rams traded multiple picks to “build the team.” Get back to me when Kirk is willing to cut his next year cap hit in half.

The Rams are paying Goff $22.2M in dead money this year.  The Lions are paying Stafford $19M in dead
money this year.  Furthermore the Rams
paid a bunch of draft capital to get Stafford. 
Those are all part of the costs to have Stafford. 

The Rams aren’t paying Stafford $23M.  They’re paying $23M in salary + Goff’s $22.2M
in dead money + all the picks they lost.

@"JustinTime18™" said: It’s hard to have these conversations when I haven’t given it any thought and don’t know any of those numbers. But I know that I want to be a Viking, and that’s kind of the foundation of it all. From there, it’s pretty easy to make those conversations happen when you want to be a Minnesota Viking.” Unless the 33-year-old is outwardly lying, he has no desire to start over — again. Minnesota will likely employ a new head coach, perhaps one more in-tune with the offensive operations (Zimmer is a defense-always personality). Too, the quote by Cousins suggests his contract is flexible. His money is guaranteed through 2022, but he could accept an extension with the franchise or enter restructuring talks. Fans would like nothing more than “Cousins at a discount.” Cousins has never taken a discount for the team’s sake before, but strangers things have happened.

At least one indication.

I think an extension is on the table depending on who we hire as a HC.  But don't be surprised if it's another short-term deal with little cap flexibility.

@"Vikergirl" said:

@"Chuckf" said:

@"Havoc1649" said: Cousins is not why we are out of the playoffs and a championship caliber team. I don’t understand how this is so difficult for people to get their heads around. I get that it is easier to blame one person from an emotional standpoint. However, an objective look at what is wrong with our team clearly shows the defense as the reason we consistently lost close games all year. They were truly bad and we had a coach who refused to play the superior players (Breeland over Dantzler) or bring out a team prepared to play at a high level. 

The San Francisco 49ers led by Cousins this year is likely a Super Bowl favorite. Unfortunately for them, they had a QB who routinely made bonehead plays that risked their games and it finally caught up with them. Cousins can win a championship, but he has to play on a balanced team (like every other QB). Like Stafford until now, he hasn’t been afforded that luxury. For whatever reason, it seems like many Viking fans really struggle to appreciate what they have. As for me, if a coach and GM cannot win with a QB who performs like Cousins, they are the problem and thank god the ownership finally caught on to that. Cousins is far from perfect, but he’s plenty good enough to be playing in a Super Bowl. Cousins and our offensive skill position players are all more than capable. They just need some help from the other side.  The one legit complaint regarding Cousins is that contract. He has to be willing to be in it for the team and sign a deal that is compatible with putting together a winning combination. If he does, there’s no reason why this team isn’t competitive next year. If the coaches and GM are worth a shit, this is not a difficult turnaround. 

EXACTLY!  Cousins has made in the neighborhood of $220 million in his career.  Give a really good hometown discount and it would endear him to the fans as well as other players.   Give the Vikings some room to manuever for a couple of high quality free agents and lock up some of our better young players.  Thielen and Smith should also come to the table.   

I don't see it. He was enabled by the front office to do guaranteed contracts so he is not the only part of the equation. I am interested to see how his approach changes with the new front office. I do see him as looking out for himself first though. He is going to continue to grab the bag.

Cousins was the cause of  Zim and Rick getting fired.
Why would the next coach even want Cousins around?

I'm trusting Kwesi and our new HC to make the right call with Cousins.

My god, how much money does a guy who drives an old conversion van & thinks Pizza Ranch is a five star restaurant, need…!?  ;) 

@"Kentis" said: My god, how much money does a guy who drives an old conversion van & thinks Pizza Ranch is a five star restaurant, need…!?  ;) 

@"Norse" said: Cousins has had 4 years to take us to the Super Bowl. How many more years you need  :3 :3

Matthew Stafford cap hit is 23M this year & the Rams traded multiple picks to “build the team.” Get back to me when Kirk is willing to cut his next year cap hit in half.

One thing that is obvious as the balls on a tall dog, yet keeps escaping people: many of the QBs/offenses we fawn over are built around their QB, whereas we've basically been run-first since drafting Adrian freaking Peterson.  We haven't really built our offense around our offensive field general since...what, Culpepper?

That obviously hasn't worked.  Trying to be the "tough trench team" has basically given us many years of also-ran-ism.  We don't put a system around our QB like other teams invest in, yet we wonder why ours doesn't seem as poised...

...hmmm....

@"Knucklehead" said:

@"Vikergirl" said:

@"Chuckf" said:

@"Havoc1649" said: Cousins is not why we are out of the playoffs and a championship caliber team. I don’t understand how this is so difficult for people to get their heads around. I get that it is easier to blame one person from an emotional standpoint. However, an objective look at what is wrong with our team clearly shows the defense as the reason we consistently lost close games all year. They were truly bad and we had a coach who refused to play the superior players (Breeland over Dantzler) or bring out a team prepared to play at a high level. 

The San Francisco 49ers led by Cousins this year is likely a Super Bowl favorite. Unfortunately for them, they had a QB who routinely made bonehead plays that risked their games and it finally caught up with them. Cousins can win a championship, but he has to play on a balanced team (like every other QB). Like Stafford until now, he hasn’t been afforded that luxury. For whatever reason, it seems like many Viking fans really struggle to appreciate what they have. As for me, if a coach and GM cannot win with a QB who performs like Cousins, they are the problem and thank god the ownership finally caught on to that. Cousins is far from perfect, but he’s plenty good enough to be playing in a Super Bowl. Cousins and our offensive skill position players are all more than capable. They just need some help from the other side.  The one legit complaint regarding Cousins is that contract. He has to be willing to be in it for the team and sign a deal that is compatible with putting together a winning combination. If he does, there’s no reason why this team isn’t competitive next year. If the coaches and GM are worth a shit, this is not a difficult turnaround. 

EXACTLY!  Cousins has made in the neighborhood of $220 million in his career.  Give a really good hometown discount and it would endear him to the fans as well as other players.   Give the Vikings some room to manuever for a couple of high quality free agents and lock up some of our better young players.  Thielen and Smith should also come to the table.   

I don't see it. He was enabled by the front office to do guaranteed contracts so he is not the only part of the equation. I am interested to see how his approach changes with the new front office. I do see him as looking out for himself first though. He is going to continue to grab the bag.

The next time that KC signs a team friendly contract will be the first time that KC signs a team friendly contract.

@"MaroonBells" said:

@"Knucklehead" said:

@"Vikergirl" said:

@"Chuckf" said:

@"Havoc1649" said: Cousins is not why we are out of the playoffs and a championship caliber team. I don’t understand how this is so difficult for people to get their heads around. I get that it is easier to blame one person from an emotional standpoint. However, an objective look at what is wrong with our team clearly shows the defense as the reason we consistently lost close games all year. They were truly bad and we had a coach who refused to play the superior players (Breeland over Dantzler) or bring out a team prepared to play at a high level. 

The San Francisco 49ers led by Cousins this year is likely a Super Bowl favorite. Unfortunately for them, they had a QB who routinely made bonehead plays that risked their games and it finally caught up with them. Cousins can win a championship, but he has to play on a balanced team (like every other QB). Like Stafford until now, he hasn’t been afforded that luxury. For whatever reason, it seems like many Viking fans really struggle to appreciate what they have. As for me, if a coach and GM cannot win with a QB who performs like Cousins, they are the problem and thank god the ownership finally caught on to that. Cousins is far from perfect, but he’s plenty good enough to be playing in a Super Bowl. Cousins and our offensive skill position players are all more than capable. They just need some help from the other side.  The one legit complaint regarding Cousins is that contract. He has to be willing to be in it for the team and sign a deal that is compatible with putting together a winning combination. If he does, there’s no reason why this team isn’t competitive next year. If the coaches and GM are worth a shit, this is not a difficult turnaround. 

EXACTLY!  Cousins has made in the neighborhood of $220 million in his career.  Give a really good hometown discount and it would endear him to the fans as well as other players.   Give the Vikings some room to manuever for a couple of high quality free agents and lock up some of our better young players.  Thielen and Smith should also come to the table.   

I don't see it. He was enabled by the front office to do guaranteed contracts so he is not the only part of the equation. I am interested to see how his approach changes with the new front office. I do see him as looking out for himself first though. He is going to continue to grab the bag.

The next time that KC signs a team friendly contract will be the first time that KC signs a team friendly contract.

While this is true, there was no reason to. At 33, he's still a relatively young QB who can command market value. 

I think the notion of the "team-friendly" deal is mostly a myth. It's either market value or a mistake on the part of the agent. What's more, I can't think of any QBs who signed "team-friendly" deals before they were in their late 30s (Tom Brady). 

@"Knucklehead" said:

@"MaroonBells" said:

@"Knucklehead" said:

@"Vikergirl" said:

@"Chuckf" said:

@"Havoc1649" said: Cousins is not why we are out of the playoffs and a championship caliber team. I don’t understand how this is so difficult for people to get their heads around. I get that it is easier to blame one person from an emotional standpoint. However, an objective look at what is wrong with our team clearly shows the defense as the reason we consistently lost close games all year. They were truly bad and we had a coach who refused to play the superior players (Breeland over Dantzler) or bring out a team prepared to play at a high level. 

The San Francisco 49ers led by Cousins this year is likely a Super Bowl favorite. Unfortunately for them, they had a QB who routinely made bonehead plays that risked their games and it finally caught up with them. Cousins can win a championship, but he has to play on a balanced team (like every other QB). Like Stafford until now, he hasn’t been afforded that luxury. For whatever reason, it seems like many Viking fans really struggle to appreciate what they have. As for me, if a coach and GM cannot win with a QB who performs like Cousins, they are the problem and thank god the ownership finally caught on to that. Cousins is far from perfect, but he’s plenty good enough to be playing in a Super Bowl. Cousins and our offensive skill position players are all more than capable. They just need some help from the other side.  The one legit complaint regarding Cousins is that contract. He has to be willing to be in it for the team and sign a deal that is compatible with putting together a winning combination. If he does, there’s no reason why this team isn’t competitive next year. If the coaches and GM are worth a shit, this is not a difficult turnaround. 

EXACTLY!  Cousins has made in the neighborhood of $220 million in his career.  Give a really good hometown discount and it would endear him to the fans as well as other players.   Give the Vikings some room to manuever for a couple of high quality free agents and lock up some of our better young players.  Thielen and Smith should also come to the table.   

I don't see it. He was enabled by the front office to do guaranteed contracts so he is not the only part of the equation. I am interested to see how his approach changes with the new front office. I do see him as looking out for himself first though. He is going to continue to grab the bag.

The next time that KC signs a team friendly contract will be the first time that KC signs a team friendly contract.

While this is true, there was no reason to. At 33, he's still a relatively young QB who can command market value. 

I think the notion of the "team-friendly" deal is mostly a myth. It's either market value or a mistake on the part of the agent. What's more, I can't think of any QBs who signed "team-friendly" deals before they were in their late 30s (Tom Brady). 

Don't get me wrong, I don't blame any player for signing a contract that gets them their maximum value. But, the Vikes need to get under the cap, sign their draft picks & make substantial additions to the defense. There are some here that think that KC will agree to a below market value contract as a step toward the team getting their cap in order. Based on his history, that's unlikely to happen. 

What does a below market contract look like for Cousins that
does us any good, given he’s already going to get the $45 for 2022 and the
Cowboys gave Dak 40 a year?  I can’t see
him taking a pay cut on the money we already promised him.  Is there anything to do but kick the can down
the road.

I just don’t see how there’s any good looking options.  I mean maybe they add-in a void year and
assume Cousins will be gone for that year? 
Like we’ll give him a 3 year extension and then move $20 from 2022 to
2026, and cut him prior to the 2026 season?

@"Norse" said: Cousins was the cause of  Zim and Rick getting fired. Why would the next coach even want Cousins around?

I'm trusting Kwesi and our new HC to make the right call with Cousins.

@"MaroonBells" said:

@"Knucklehead" said:

@"Vikergirl" said:

@"Chuckf" said:

@"Havoc1649" said: Cousins is not why we are out of the playoffs and a championship caliber team. I don’t understand how this is so difficult for people to get their heads around. I get that it is easier to blame one person from an emotional standpoint. However, an objective look at what is wrong with our team clearly shows the defense as the reason we consistently lost close games all year. They were truly bad and we had a coach who refused to play the superior players (Breeland over Dantzler) or bring out a team prepared to play at a high level. 

The San Francisco 49ers led by Cousins this year is likely a Super Bowl favorite. Unfortunately for them, they had a QB who routinely made bonehead plays that risked their games and it finally caught up with them. Cousins can win a championship, but he has to play on a balanced team (like every other QB). Like Stafford until now, he hasn’t been afforded that luxury. For whatever reason, it seems like many Viking fans really struggle to appreciate what they have. As for me, if a coach and GM cannot win with a QB who performs like Cousins, they are the problem and thank god the ownership finally caught on to that. Cousins is far from perfect, but he’s plenty good enough to be playing in a Super Bowl. Cousins and our offensive skill position players are all more than capable. They just need some help from the other side.  The one legit complaint regarding Cousins is that contract. He has to be willing to be in it for the team and sign a deal that is compatible with putting together a winning combination. If he does, there’s no reason why this team isn’t competitive next year. If the coaches and GM are worth a shit, this is not a difficult turnaround. 

EXACTLY!  Cousins has made in the neighborhood of $220 million in his career.  Give a really good hometown discount and it would endear him to the fans as well as other players.   Give the Vikings some room to manuever for a couple of high quality free agents and lock up some of our better young players.  Thielen and Smith should also come to the table.   

I don't see it. He was enabled by the front office to do guaranteed contracts so he is not the only part of the equation. I am interested to see how his approach changes with the new front office. I do see him as looking out for himself first though. He is going to continue to grab the bag.

The next time that KC signs a team friendly contract will be the first time that KC signs a team friendly contract.

While this is true, there was no reason to. At 33, he's still a relatively young QB who can command market value. 

I think the notion of the "team-friendly" deal is mostly a myth. It's either market value or a mistake on the part of the agent. What's more, I can't think of any QBs who signed "team-friendly" deals before they were in their late 30s (Tom Brady). 

@"Chuckf" said:

@"Norse" said: Cousins was the cause of  Zim and Rick getting fired. Why would the next coach even want Cousins around?

I'm trusting Kwesi and our new HC to make the right call with Cousins.

He was?  News to me.  It couldn't have been the failure of the defense to stop anyone in the last 3 years is it?

@"Norse" said:

@"Chuckf" said:

@"Norse" said: Cousins was the cause of  Zim and Rick getting fired. Why would the next coach even want Cousins around?

I'm trusting Kwesi and our new HC to make the right call with Cousins.

He was?  News to me.  It couldn't have been the failure of the defense to stop anyone in the last 3 years is it?

Because Zimmer felt Cousins was cutting into is defense fund.
Rick put all his chips in the pile for Cousins to take us that next step.

Why do you Think Zimmer and Rick wasn’t talking? 

@"Chuckf" said:

@"Norse" said:

@"Chuckf" said:

@"Norse" said: Cousins was the cause of  Zim and Rick getting fired. Why would the next coach even want Cousins around?

I'm trusting Kwesi and our new HC to make the right call with Cousins.

He was?  News to me.  It couldn't have been the failure of the defense to stop anyone in the last 3 years is it?

Because Zimmer felt Cousins was cutting into is defense fund.
Rick put all his chips in the pile for Cousins to take us that next step.

Why do you Think Zimmer and Rick wasn’t talking? 

Really? Because I don't see many players who we didn't keep or go out and get due to salary cap.    While Kirk was QB with his contract the Vikings gave huge paydays to Kendricks, Hunter, Barr, and Harrison Smith.   The Vikings gave a big payday to O'Neill as well.  They paid Thielen, and Dalvin Cook as well.   Then last year they went and broke the bank for the best two available DTs in Dalvin Tomlinson and Michael Pierce in free agency, also signed Eversen Griffen and Sheldon Richardson back.  Then they went out and paid Patrick Peterson, Rashad Breeland, Mackensie Alexander and Xavier Woods in the secondary. Having a hard time seeing out Kirk's contract held anything back.   We KNOW they weren't talking but we DON'T know the real reason why.   Could it be Kirk, maybe but we don't know but a guy who has averaged 68.% completion percentage, 4,097 yards, 31 tds, 9 ints per season is a problem with Zimmer then he should NEVER be a coach.  Kirk has been one of the best in the league vs. the blitz as well.  And Kirk did all of this with and admittedly mediocre offensive line, an elite runninback who constantly misses multiple games due to injury and never having an elite TE.