Guess there was a schism between Zim and Rick

@"pattersaur" said:

@"VikingOracle" said: I am kind of amazed about the piling on Zimmer happening right now.  I remember this happening with Steckel, but I did not expect it with Zimmer.

Agreed with everything but especially this last part. It’s clearly open season on Zim from the press. Stark contrast from PA scolding fans like a week ago (that aged well).

But where were these reports a month ago? Or two? Or last year? Whole team/media thing seems incestuous and strange. Zim is getting dragged big time while Rick is pretty much skating, by comparison. 

@"mgobluevikes" said:

@"pattersaur" said:

@"VikingOracle" said: I am kind of amazed about the piling on Zimmer happening right now.  I remember this happening with Steckel, but I did not expect it with Zimmer.

Agreed with everything but especially this last part. It’s clearly open season on Zim from the press. Stark contrast from PA scolding fans like a week ago (that aged well).

But where were these reports a month ago? Or two? Or last year? Whole team/media thing seems incestuous and strange. Zim is getting dragged big time while Rick is pretty much skating, by comparison. 

Seems easy to figure out. Zim treated people like dirt, and while Rick made a some mistakes, they seem to have been made in good faith. The media is also easy to figure out. They wanted access. They didn't want to be treated like Tomasson.

@"VikingOracle" said:

@"mgobluevikes" said:

@"pattersaur" said:

@"VikingOracle" said: I am kind of amazed about the piling on Zimmer happening right now.  I remember this happening with Steckel, but I did not expect it with Zimmer.

Agreed with everything but especially this last part. It’s clearly open season on Zim from the press. Stark contrast from PA scolding fans like a week ago (that aged well).

But where were these reports a month ago? Or two? Or last year? Whole team/media thing seems incestuous and strange. Zim is getting dragged big time while Rick is pretty much skating, by comparison. 

Seems easy to figure out. Zim treated people like dirt, and while Rick made a some mistakes, they seem to have been made in good faith. The media is also easy to figure out. They wanted access. They didn't want to be treated like Tomasson.

I think we all knew that Zimmer played favorites; that is now coming home to roost.  Probably a year too late, but good that the Wilfs blew this up.  It was clearly getting worse and worse.

@"purplefaithful" said:

@"VikingOracle" said:

@"mgobluevikes" said:

@"pattersaur" said:

@"VikingOracle" said: I am kind of amazed about the piling on Zimmer happening right now.  I remember this happening with Steckel, but I did not expect it with Zimmer.

Agreed with everything but especially this last part. It’s clearly open season on Zim from the press. Stark contrast from PA scolding fans like a week ago (that aged well).

But where were these reports a month ago? Or two? Or last year? Whole team/media thing seems incestuous and strange. Zim is getting dragged big time while Rick is pretty much skating, by comparison. 

Seems easy to figure out. Zim treated people like dirt, and while Rick made a some mistakes, they seem to have been made in good faith. The media is also easy to figure out. They wanted access. They didn't want to be treated like Tomasson.

I think we all knew that Zimmer played favorites; that is now coming home to roost.  Probably a year too late, but good that the Wilfs blew this up.  It was clearly getting worse and worse.

I think you're right. In retrospect a year too late. 

@"purplefaithful" said:

@"VikingOracle" said:

@"mgobluevikes" said:

@"pattersaur" said:

@"VikingOracle" said: I am kind of amazed about the piling on Zimmer happening right now.  I remember this happening with Steckel, but I did not expect it with Zimmer.

Agreed with everything but especially this last part. It’s clearly open season on Zim from the press. Stark contrast from PA scolding fans like a week ago (that aged well).

But where were these reports a month ago? Or two? Or last year? Whole team/media thing seems incestuous and strange. Zim is getting dragged big time while Rick is pretty much skating, by comparison. 

Seems easy to figure out. Zim treated people like dirt, and while Rick made a some mistakes, they seem to have been made in good faith. The media is also easy to figure out. They wanted access. They didn't want to be treated like Tomasson.

I think we all knew that Zimmer played favorites; that is now coming home to roost.  Probably a year too late, but good that the Wilfs blew this up.  It was clearly getting worse and worse.

I think you're right. In retrospect a year too late. 

@"StickyBun" said:

@"pattersaur" said:

@"JustinTime18™" said:

@"mgobluevikes" said:

@"StickyBun" said:

@"JustinTime18™" said:

@"supafreak84" said:

@"JustinTime18™" said:

@"supafreak84" said:

@"Skodin" said: zim never wanted Cousins. Spielman went after the analytical midwest boy (like himself) to be his legacy. 

it was the beginning of the end

time to rid of Cousins

A couple thing's on Cousins. He is under contract for one more season. We can't cut him because the dead money cap hit would be 45 million dollars. We can try trading him, but he'll be 34 years old and what could we get for him in a trade package? If we were able to trade him and his contract, what are we doing for a starting QB for this upcoming season? It's not a pretty free agent market and this is a very weak draft class of QB's. 

More than what the Eagles got for Wentz, less than the Lions got for Stafford.

The Vikings are 0-2 in trades that were supposed to be the final Super Bowl piece.

I don't know that we could get a first round pick for Cousins. The Eagles got it for Wentz because the Colts were gambling on him reverting back to MVP form and was still only 28. I'm trying to think of teams that it would make sense for to make a move for Cousins...and its slim pickings. Maybe Cleveland reuniting with Stefanski depending on what they decide on Mayfield. Redskins would probably make the most sense

Cousins has APPEARED on the injury report once since 2014. Extremely productive. 33 isn't exactly ancient. Pen him in for 4000 yards and 30+ TDs.

And we can't get a first?

Fuck no.

I think its possible but not probable. I think interested teams will look at it as a mini fire-sale with Cousins. I still don't see it happening, but crazier things certainly have.

Wentz=fire sale...Lock=fire sale...Taysom Hill/Jameis Winston= fire sale...Taylor Heinicke=fire sale...Tua Tagovailoa= fire sale...Sam Darnold=fire sale...Jared Goff=fire sale...Matt Ryan=fire sale...Baker Mayfield=fire sale...Cousins=not a fire sale.

Which one of these is as durable and productive as Cousins?

I'll wait.

For sure, but being better then that riff raff and being worth a first round pick are two very different things. I hope you are right. And even if you aren’t I just hope the Vikings don’t give Kirk the “5 more years” idea that’s been bandied about. 

Kirk will be 34 years old before the start of next season. 

We can do better.

JT18:  I get where you are going with this (and you also need to factor in the receivers he is working with).  

I had a colleague at the law firm I worked at who always bragged that he had never lost a motion he brought.  Sounds impressive.  But good attorneys lose motions because they are pushing the envelop of the law on behalf of their clients -- they are not just bringing motions that are winners.  Cousins doesn't do that.  In the vast majority of pass plays, he is not taking any risks -- which is good in most circumstances.  But it is in those other circumstances, the 3rd down plays, where you must take a risk -- throw a 50/50 ball -- that Cousins does not excel.  I have posted this before, if you want a QB that mechanically goes through his reads and pick the safest pass, Cousins is for you.  But if you need a QB that adjust the risk assessment based on a number of changing factors (such as down and distance, score, etc.), Cousins is just not a great choice.  JMHO.

Let's factor a risk averse, run first, HC who didn't want Cousins in the first place. 

@"VikingOracle" said: JT18:  I get where you are going with this (and you also need to factor in the receivers he is working with).  

I had a colleague at the law firm I worked at who always bragged that he had never lost a motion he brought.  Sounds impressive.  But good attorneys lose motions because they are pushing the envelop of the law on behalf of their clients -- they are not just bringing motions that are winners.  Cousins doesn't do that.  In the vast majority of pass plays, he is not taking any risks -- which is good in most circumstances.  But it is in those other circumstances, the 3rd down plays, where you must take a risk -- throw a 50/50 ball -- that Cousins does not excel.  I have posted this before, if you want a QB that mechanically goes through his reads and pick the safest pass, Cousins is for you.  But if you need a QB that adjust the risk assessment based on a number of changing factors (such as down and distance, score, etc.), Cousins is just not a great choice.  JMHO.

Zimmer with his run first at all cost philosophy often left us in 2nd and 8, then we would get a penalty and we would be looking at 2nd and 13, we would gain 5, and have 3rd and 8 (or more) on the regular. Having to consistently convert on 3rd down throughout the game gives defenses keys and tendencies. If we were a little more creative on 1st and 2nd down, we wouldn't be so reliant on pulling off 3rd and 4th down miracles, especially at the end of the game.

If Zimmer's swiss cheese defense could have held off those twin juggernauts of Cooper Rush and the 0-10-1 Lions and not given up game-losing TD's, the Vikings would have been playing this weekend (and losing by 14+, but that's another issue).

QB play my ass. Cousins did enough for this team to be 11-6 or so. He's got his well-documented weaknesses but he's not what kept us out of the playoffs.

@"pattersaur" said:

@"VikingOracle" said: I am kind of amazed about the piling on Zimmer happening right now.  I remember this happening with Steckel, but I did not expect it with Zimmer.

Agreed with everything but especially this last part. It’s clearly open season on Zim from the press. Stark contrast from PA scolding fans like a week ago (that aged well).

But where were these reports a month ago? Or two? Or last year? Whole team/media thing seems incestuous and strange. Zim is getting dragged big time while Rick is pretty much skating, by comparison. 

@"VikingOracle" said: Frankly, if they hadn't talked in months, Spielman should be fired for not firing Zimmer earlier.  Can you imagine not talking to your boss for several months?

@"purplefaithful" said:

@"VikingOracle" said:

@"mgobluevikes" said:

@"pattersaur" said:

@"VikingOracle" said: I am kind of amazed about the piling on Zimmer happening right now.  I remember this happening with Steckel, but I did not expect it with Zimmer.

Agreed with everything but especially this last part. It’s clearly open season on Zim from the press. Stark contrast from PA scolding fans like a week ago (that aged well).

But where were these reports a month ago? Or two? Or last year? Whole team/media thing seems incestuous and strange. Zim is getting dragged big time while Rick is pretty much skating, by comparison. 

Seems easy to figure out. Zim treated people like dirt, and while Rick made a some mistakes, they seem to have been made in good faith. The media is also easy to figure out. They wanted access. They didn't want to be treated like Tomasson.

I think we all knew that Zimmer played favorites; that is now coming home to roost.  Probably a year too late, but good that the Wilfs blew this up.  It was clearly getting worse and worse.

I think you're right. In retrospect a year too late. 

@"VikingOracle" said: JT18:  I get where you are going with this (and you also need to factor in the receivers he is working with).  

I had a colleague at the law firm I worked at who always bragged that he had never lost a motion he brought.  Sounds impressive.  But good attorneys lose motions because they are pushing the envelop of the law on behalf of their clients -- they are not just bringing motions that are winners.  Cousins doesn't do that.  In the vast majority of pass plays, he is not taking any risks -- which is good in most circumstances.  But it is in those other circumstances, the 3rd down plays, where you must take a risk -- throw a 50/50 ball -- that Cousins does not excel.  I have posted this before, if you want a QB that mechanically goes through his reads and pick the safest pass, Cousins is for you.  But if you need a QB that adjust the risk assessment based on a number of changing factors (such as down and distance, score, etc.), Cousins is just not a great choice.  JMHO.

What if Cousins was told not to take chance by the coaching staff?  You know, because we've got a great defense. 

@"AGRforever" said:

@"VikingOracle" said: JT18:  I get where you are going with this (and you also need to factor in the receivers he is working with).  

I had a colleague at the law firm I worked at who always bragged that he had never lost a motion he brought.  Sounds impressive.  But good attorneys lose motions because they are pushing the envelop of the law on behalf of their clients -- they are not just bringing motions that are winners.  Cousins doesn't do that.  In the vast majority of pass plays, he is not taking any risks -- which is good in most circumstances.  But it is in those other circumstances, the 3rd down plays, where you must take a risk -- throw a 50/50 ball -- that Cousins does not excel.  I have posted this before, if you want a QB that mechanically goes through his reads and pick the safest pass, Cousins is for you.  But if you need a QB that adjust the risk assessment based on a number of changing factors (such as down and distance, score, etc.), Cousins is just not a great choice.  JMHO.

What if Cousins was told not to take chance by the coaching staff?  You know, because we've got a great defense. 

@"AGRforever" said:

@"VikingOracle" said: JT18:  I get where you are going with this (and you also need to factor in the receivers he is working with).  

I had a colleague at the law firm I worked at who always bragged that he had never lost a motion he brought.  Sounds impressive.  But good attorneys lose motions because they are pushing the envelop of the law on behalf of their clients -- they are not just bringing motions that are winners.  Cousins doesn't do that.  In the vast majority of pass plays, he is not taking any risks -- which is good in most circumstances.  But it is in those other circumstances, the 3rd down plays, where you must take a risk -- throw a 50/50 ball -- that Cousins does not excel.  I have posted this before, if you want a QB that mechanically goes through his reads and pick the safest pass, Cousins is for you.  But if you need a QB that adjust the risk assessment based on a number of changing factors (such as down and distance, score, etc.), Cousins is just not a great choice.  JMHO.

What if Cousins was told not to take chance by the coaching staff?  You know, because we've got a great defense.