A local take on the team, I think is pretty spot on...
The Vikings owners made the correct call after eight years with Mike Zimmer and Rick Spielman had the team no closer to a championship.This leadership makeover isn't inspired by scandal, or outright incompetence, or something as clear-cut as a dereliction of duty.
It was just time.
Time for a change. Time for a different approach. Time to acknowledge that staleness had taken root inside the Vikings organization and was impeding progress in the pursuit of a championship.
Zygi and Mark Wilf had their eyes wide open in arriving at the necessary decision to fire both General Manager Rick Spielman and coach Mike Zimmer on Monday in what constitutes the most impactful football decision of their ownership.
Eight years of that tandem was enough.
"We have high expectations for this football team," Mark Wilf said Monday. "We believe we can be super-competitive right here in 2022. … As much of a difficult decision as it was, we feel it's the time and place to go in a different direction and get us to the next level."
Unflattering comments from several players Monday afternoon about team culture reinforced the need for new leadership. When star linebacker Eric Kendricks says that "I don't think a fear-based organization is the way to go," that shows serious problems were festering behind the scenes.
In making their decision, the Wilfs showed they recognize a Band-Aid won't fix a franchise that missed the playoffs three of the past four seasons with a roster filled with high-priced veterans. Removing only Zimmer from the equation without addressing personnel deficiencies would have been a lesson in scapegoating.
If assigning a letter grade to the Spielman-Zimmer regime, a B-minus feels appropriate. Good but not good enough and certainly not great.
Under Spielman and Zimmer's leadership, the Vikings always felt like they had a chance to be competitive but that they were never going to win a Super Bowl.
Their ceiling was higher than that of many teams, but lopsided losses in the playoffs brought a sobering reminder and realization that they weren't that close after all.
They danced a paralyzing tango for eight seasons. Two steps forward, two steps back. It was enticing, even hopeful at times, but you kept waiting for a larger payoff that just never materialized.
The NFL shelf life only values stability if the reward exceeds a brief playoff appearance every other year. This leadership duo had plenty of time and opportunity to get it right.
Spielman's ledger as GM includes draft-pick hits and misses, and one could spend a week playing pingpong with that discussion. His inability to draft and develop a franchise quarterback was a combination of his own miscalculations and some bad luck that led Spielman and Zimmer into their all-in covenant with Kirk Cousins.
The gamble didn't work, not in the way they envisioned and sold to the Wilfs. Instead, the triumvirate produced a 33-31-1 record and one playoff victory over four seasons.
Zimmer looked worn down by the end. A man who takes great pride in his defense fielded one of the NFL's worst defenses over the past two seasons, despite the organization committing significant capital to repair that side of the ball.
The old-school gruffness that made Zimmer so endearing and popular early in his tenure came across as get-off-my-lawn screeds by the end. His dismissive comments about rookie quarterback Kellen Mond after the debacle in Green Bay were unnecessarily harsh, indicating a cranky coach who had had enough.
The demands Zimmer placed on his offensive coordinator to run, run, run were ripped out of a 1995 playbook. His game management blunders became frequent. He took veiled shots at Spielman's personnel decisions at different times this season, a sign of his unhappiness with roster construction and also an indication that he felt pressure in a win-or-else season.
Ultimately, it was just time to part ways with both. The Wilfs mostly stay in the background on football matters, but they understand that the NFL is a results business. The Vikings hit their ceiling with Spielman and Zimmer. To believe that sticking with people that ownership clearly likes personally and trusted professionally would produce different results is naïve.
It was time to hand the baton to someone else, a fresh set of eyes with no bias or allegiances, knowing the roster has major issues to solve, starting with Cousins and his albatross contract.
The Spielman-Zimmer regime did plenty of good things for the organization, but their fate came down to one question: Where is this thing going after eight years?
The honest answer pushed their bosses to take a different path.
https://www.startribune.com/vikings-owners-wilfs-made-necessary-decision-to-fire-mike-zimmer-rick-spielman-nfl-chip-scoggins/600134499/
Hurry-up Vikings, we ain't getting any younger!
@"kmillard" said: I don't know what everyone is afraid of. The "well we're better than the Lions at least" bar needs to be raised IMO. If the risk is little, so is the reward.Some are afraid of going backwards. But sometimes you have to go backwards to go forward. Regardless they were stagnant and that is worse because they were going nowhere. Looking at the culture and the idea that some players felt that they could not approach or connect with the coach is telling. Coaching has changed from 2014 to 2022. The environment for players has changed. It is important to get a coach that will consider that.
I would agree. One thing to understand, it certainly could have been worse, has been worse previously, but I think the expiration date had been reached. Sounds like he was wearing thin with some key players, so genius or not, he wasn't reaching all of them and that will destroy any team.
I think the Wilves were considering keeping Rick in another capacity, but discovered or were advised that potential GMs wouldn’t want the job w/ Trader Rick looking over the new hire’s shoulders.
It was time. When Rick passed on Mac Jones when he fell last year, I had seen enough. We needed a guy like him in position with a rookie contract so we could move forward after trading Cousins.
Now I’m at the point where the best decision on Cousins is to do a new contract. A 3 or 4 year contract. At least long enough to knock down the insane cap number. They could probably clear $20 million doing it. I don’t see anyone better than him available or who won’t be carrying just as high or a higher tag. Then if Mond doesn’t look like the answer, you have a couple of years to use a high pick to get a quality future starter.
If they do those things and the new staff does it’s job, they’ll be highly competitive next year. I think this is how the Wilf’s view it if Cousins will work with them on the contract. No reason to move him if that insane contract is taken care of. Then invest the cap savings in improving that horrendous defense. Give us even a middle of the road defense and this team will win a lot of games wit Cousins under center.
@"Kentis" said: I think the Wilves were considering keeping Rick in another capacity, but discovered or were advised that potential GMs wouldn’t want the job w/ Trader Rick looking over the new hire’s shoulders.I think that's a big part of it. There's also a rumor that Rick turned down the "promotion." Can't blame him for that.
Wilfs finally woke up from the delusion that Rick is a great g.m. and rid themselves of the problem. Bravo!
@"comet52" said: Wilfs finally woke up from the delusion that Rick is a great g.m. and rid themselves of the problem. Bravo!Belichick last 9 drafts: 1 Pro Bowl season, 1 AllPro season, 6 top 100 picks out of football Spielman last 9 drafts: 23 Pro Bowl seasons. 12 AllPro seasons, 2 top 100 picks out of football, both off-field issues There's more to being a GM than the draft. So if you want to compare free agency and trade results, Mohamed Sanu and I are ready for that too.
@"MaroonBells" said:@"comet52" said: Wilfs finally woke up from the delusion that Rick is a great g.m. and rid themselves of the problem. Bravo! Belichick last 9 drafts: 1 Pro Bowl season, 1 AllPro season, 6 top 100 picks out of football Spielman last 9 drafts: 23 Pro Bowl seasons. 12 AllPro seasons, 2 top 100 picks out of football, both off-field issues There's more to being a GM than the draft. So if you want to compare free agency and trade results, Mohamed Sanu and I are ready for that too.
And the reply from many will be who's in the playoffs and who's not?But - that data comparison sure shines a light on Coaching as a problem, not the talent on the field.
Yup, thx for making me even more uneasy about RS leaving. Just as I was finding some peace in it.
@"MaroonBells" said:@"comet52" said: Wilfs finally woke up from the delusion that Rick is a great g.m. and rid themselves of the problem. Bravo! Belichick last 9 drafts: 1 Pro Bowl season, 1 AllPro season, 6 top 100 picks out of football Spielman last 9 drafts: 23 Pro Bowl seasons. 12 AllPro seasons, 2 top 100 picks out of football, both off-field issues There's more to being a GM than the draft. So if you want to compare free agency and trade results, Mohamed Sanu and I are ready for that too.
I know Rick's depth-free top-heavy roster, inability to put together an o-line for a decade, inability to find a qb for a decade, overpaying of Kirk Cousins, drafting of first round duds like Treadwell, Bradbury, Gladney, Waynes and Hughes, and failure to build a team that ever realistically competed for a title excites you, but not everyone else feels that way. We have a chance to do better if Wilf finds the right guy. A lot better.
@"purplefaithful" said:@"MaroonBells" said:@"comet52" said: Wilfs finally woke up from the delusion that Rick is a great g.m. and rid themselves of the problem. Bravo! Belichick last 9 drafts: 1 Pro Bowl season, 1 AllPro season, 6 top 100 picks out of football Spielman last 9 drafts: 23 Pro Bowl seasons. 12 AllPro seasons, 2 top 100 picks out of football, both off-field issues There's more to being a GM than the draft. So if you want to compare free agency and trade results, Mohamed Sanu and I are ready for that too.
And the reply from many will be who's in the playoffs and who's not?But - that data comparison sure shines a light on Coaching as a problem, not the talent on the field.
Yup, thx for making me even more uneasy about RS leaving. Just as I was finding some peace in it.
Well that's me: Mr. Pessimist. Ha.We all want what's best for the Vikings. I think it's possible a shake up could be a good thing. I was hoping for a shake up just at the coaching level, but something, somewhere changed all that. I'd blame the Cronins and the Souhans and the Zulgads, but I doubt the WILVES are stupid enough to listen to that collection of dipshits.
My biggest problem is that so many Viking fans and media lack context. They genuinely don't understand anything but wins and losses. They don't follow the draft, so they don't understand how it works. Case in point: just read a tweet criticizing Spielman for the fact that only "14 of his last 47 draft picks" are still with the Vikings. HORRIBLE, said the poster!...until someone reminded him that this ranked 6th in the NFL.
Vikings have been one of the best--I'd argue THE best--drafting team in the NFL. Did Spielman make a few free agency and trade mistakes? Yup, but look around......seriously, look around.....
@"MaroonBells" said:@"purplefaithful" said:@"MaroonBells" said:@"comet52" said: Wilfs finally woke up from the delusion that Rick is a great g.m. and rid themselves of the problem. Bravo! Belichick last 9 drafts: 1 Pro Bowl season, 1 AllPro season, 6 top 100 picks out of football Spielman last 9 drafts: 23 Pro Bowl seasons. 12 AllPro seasons, 2 top 100 picks out of football, both off-field issues There's more to being a GM than the draft. So if you want to compare free agency and trade results, Mohamed Sanu and I are ready for that too.
And the reply from many will be who's in the playoffs and who's not?But - that data comparison sure shines a light on Coaching as a problem, not the talent on the field.
Yup, thx for making me even more uneasy about RS leaving. Just as I was finding some peace in it.
Well that's me: Mr. Pessimist. Ha.We all want what's best for the Vikings. I think it's possible a shake up could be a good thing. I was hoping for a shake up just at the coaching level, but something, somewhere changed all that. I'd blame the Cronins and the Souhans and the Zulgads, but I doubt the WILVES are stupid enough to listen to that collection of dipshits.
My biggest problem is that so many Viking fans and media lack context. They genuinely don't understand anything but wins and losses. They don't follow the draft, so they don't understand how it works. Case in point: just read a tweet criticizing Spielman for the fact that only "14 of his last 47 draft picks" are still with the Vikings. HORRIBLE, said the poster!...until someone reminded him that this ranked 6th in the NFL.
Vikings have been one of the best--I'd argue THE best--drafting team in the NFL. Did Spielman make a few free agency and trade mistakes? Yup, but look around......seriously, look around.....
That's all well and good.... and you make good points, MB. But the bottom line is wins, playoffs and Superbowls. None of which the Vikings are particularly good at. If the point is that 'good things are happening and eventually a breakthrough will happen' just hasn't happened for Minnesota. I guarantee you that as amazing and fun as the Minneapolis Miracle was, you can look at it conversely as they were a freaking frog's hair away from being one and done after a somewhat magical regular season. THAT is way more on brand for Minnesota than the Minneapolis Miracle.There's WAY more of a case to keep Spielman than Zimmer undoubtedly. But to endeavor to get to a better place, the house needed to be cleaned for both positions. No doubt Viking's fans lack context, but so do all fanbases. I could list some very ugly stats about how grotesque the Viking's playoff record and appearances have been with what is usually an at least moderate level of success during the regular season. They underperform consistently in the playoffs. It's maddening.
@"StickyBun" said:@"MaroonBells" said:@"purplefaithful" said:@"MaroonBells" said:@"comet52" said: Wilfs finally woke up from the delusion that Rick is a great g.m. and rid themselves of the problem. Bravo! Belichick last 9 drafts: 1 Pro Bowl season, 1 AllPro season, 6 top 100 picks out of football Spielman last 9 drafts: 23 Pro Bowl seasons. 12 AllPro seasons, 2 top 100 picks out of football, both off-field issues There's more to being a GM than the draft. So if you want to compare free agency and trade results, Mohamed Sanu and I are ready for that too.
And the reply from many will be who's in the playoffs and who's not?But - that data comparison sure shines a light on Coaching as a problem, not the talent on the field.
Yup, thx for making me even more uneasy about RS leaving. Just as I was finding some peace in it.
Well that's me: Mr. Pessimist. Ha.We all want what's best for the Vikings. I think it's possible a shake up could be a good thing. I was hoping for a shake up just at the coaching level, but something, somewhere changed all that. I'd blame the Cronins and the Souhans and the Zulgads, but I doubt the WILVES are stupid enough to listen to that collection of dipshits.
My biggest problem is that so many Viking fans and media lack context. They genuinely don't understand anything but wins and losses. They don't follow the draft, so they don't understand how it works. Case in point: just read a tweet criticizing Spielman for the fact that only "14 of his last 47 draft picks" are still with the Vikings. HORRIBLE, said the poster!...until someone reminded him that this ranked 6th in the NFL.
Vikings have been one of the best--I'd argue THE best--drafting team in the NFL. Did Spielman make a few free agency and trade mistakes? Yup, but look around......seriously, look around.....
That's all well and good.... and you make good points, MB. But the bottom line is wins, playoffs and Superbowls. None of which the Vikings are particularly good at. If the point is that 'good things are happening and eventually a breakthrough will happen' just hasn't happened for Minnesota. I guarantee you that as amazing and fun as the Minneapolis Miracle was, you can look at it conversely as they were a freaking frog's hair away from being one and done after a somewhat magical regular season. THAT is way more on brand for Minnesota than the Minneapolis Miracle.There's WAY more of a case to keep Spielman than Zimmer undoubtedly. But to endeavor to get to a better place, the house needed to be cleaned for both positions. No doubt Viking's fans lack context, but so do all fanbases. I could list some very ugly stats about how grotesque the Viking's playoff record and appearances have been with what is usually an at least moderate level of success during the regular season. They underperform consistently in the playoffs. It's maddening.
I’m just a big believer in fully informed decision making. Not making decisions based on surface results, but looking deeper, looking at the “why” behind those results. You can’t make a good decision about anything—college football players, coaches, GMs, stocks, employees—without looking behind the numbers.
When we scout a player in the draft, do you think all we look at are his numbers? His wins and losses? Of course not. One of my favorite examples of this is Stefon Diggs. If you went by just his numbers at Maryland he probably shouldn’t have been drafted at all. But if you look deeper, you see not only was he hurt for much of his time there, but his QB was terrible. Does that spell potential upside? Value? You bet it does.
If you look at what happened this year, and in the season you mention above, to me it’s clear that the biggest problem was the Vikings head coach and his inability to prepare his team either strategically or emotionally and get them to play at a high level for 60 minutes. It sure as hell wasn’t the talent on the roster. In fact, it was Zimmer’s failure to win with what was, arguably, a very talented roster, that made his shortcomings all the more obvious.
It’s ironic that many people who wanted Spielman fired also agree that the Vikings are considered the best open situation in the NFL. Why? Because of the talent on their roster...constructed by the GM…whom they wanted fired.
I suspect there’s truth to the speculation that putting Spielman in a figurehead role over the new regime was not a viable situation for either him or the new regime and that’s why he was let go. And that’s fine; I get that. But to argue that he wasn’t good at what he did, especially when it comes to the DRAFT….is just ridiculous.
@"MaroonBells" said:@"StickyBun" said:@"MaroonBells" said:@"purplefaithful" said:@"MaroonBells" said:@"comet52" said: Wilfs finally woke up from the delusion that Rick is a great g.m. and rid themselves of the problem. Bravo! Belichick last 9 drafts: 1 Pro Bowl season, 1 AllPro season, 6 top 100 picks out of football Spielman last 9 drafts: 23 Pro Bowl seasons. 12 AllPro seasons, 2 top 100 picks out of football, both off-field issues There's more to being a GM than the draft. So if you want to compare free agency and trade results, Mohamed Sanu and I are ready for that too.
And the reply from many will be who's in the playoffs and who's not?But - that data comparison sure shines a light on Coaching as a problem, not the talent on the field.
Yup, thx for making me even more uneasy about RS leaving. Just as I was finding some peace in it.
Well that's me: Mr. Pessimist. Ha.We all want what's best for the Vikings. I think it's possible a shake up could be a good thing. I was hoping for a shake up just at the coaching level, but something, somewhere changed all that. I'd blame the Cronins and the Souhans and the Zulgads, but I doubt the WILVES are stupid enough to listen to that collection of dipshits.
My biggest problem is that so many Viking fans and media lack context. They genuinely don't understand anything but wins and losses. They don't follow the draft, so they don't understand how it works. Case in point: just read a tweet criticizing Spielman for the fact that only "14 of his last 47 draft picks" are still with the Vikings. HORRIBLE, said the poster!...until someone reminded him that this ranked 6th in the NFL.
Vikings have been one of the best--I'd argue THE best--drafting team in the NFL. Did Spielman make a few free agency and trade mistakes? Yup, but look around......seriously, look around.....
That's all well and good.... and you make good points, MB. But the bottom line is wins, playoffs and Superbowls. None of which the Vikings are particularly good at. If the point is that 'good things are happening and eventually a breakthrough will happen' just hasn't happened for Minnesota. I guarantee you that as amazing and fun as the Minneapolis Miracle was, you can look at it conversely as they were a freaking frog's hair away from being one and done after a somewhat magical regular season. THAT is way more on brand for Minnesota than the Minneapolis Miracle.There's WAY more of a case to keep Spielman than Zimmer undoubtedly. But to endeavor to get to a better place, the house needed to be cleaned for both positions. No doubt Viking's fans lack context, but so do all fanbases. I could list some very ugly stats about how grotesque the Viking's playoff record and appearances have been with what is usually an at least moderate level of success during the regular season. They underperform consistently in the playoffs. It's maddening.
I’m just a big believer in fully informed decision making. Not making decisions based on surface results, but looking deeper, looking at the “why” behind those results. You can’t make a good decision about anything—college football players, coaches, GMs, stocks, employees—without looking behind the numbers.
When we scout a player in the draft, do you think all we look at are his numbers? His wins and losses? Of course not. One of my favorite examples of this is Stefon Diggs. If you went by just his numbers at Maryland he probably shouldn’t have been drafted at all. But if you look deeper, you see not only was he hurt for much of his time there, but his QB was terrible. Does that spell potential upside? Value? You bet it does.
If you look at what happened this year, and in the season you mention above, to me it’s clear that the biggest problem was the Vikings head coach and his inability to prepare his team either strategically or emotionally and get them to play at a high level for 60 minutes. It sure as hell wasn’t the talent on the roster. In fact, it was Zimmer’s failure to win with what was, arguably, a very talented roster, that made his shortcomings all the more obvious.
It’s ironic that many people who wanted Spielman fired also agree that the Vikings are considered the best open situation in the NFL. Why? Because of the talent on their roster...constructed by the GM…whom they wanted fired.
I suspect there’s truth to the speculation that putting Spielman in a figurehead role over the new regime was not a viable situation for either him or the new regime and that’s why he was let go. And that’s fine; I get that. But to argue that he wasn’t good at what he did, especially when it comes to the DRAFT….is just ridiculous.
Some folks don't remember the days of Denny and Solly rearranging the draft board.I do. I know you do. Definitely top 5-8 drafting.
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