Zimmer and Cousins
You're only given a little spark of madness. You mustn't lose it. — Robin Williams
Yeah, its not the prettiest picture or return on investment. There's more to it then those stats, but its what it ultimately comes down to regardless how snakebit the organization or Zimmer have been: wins. Putting it altogether has been impossible for this franchise. There's always some aspect of the team lacking for whatever reason.
@"StickyBun" said: Yeah, its not the prettiest picture or return on investment. There's more to it then those stats, but its what it ultimately comes down to regardless how snakebit the organization or Zimmer have been: wins. Putting it altogether has been impossible for this franchise. There's always some aspect of the team lacking for whatever reason.That's why anyone that criticizes Zimmer for the team's shortcomings should also look to the guy responsible for constructing the roster in the first place...
From what has been reported in the past, I think it's safe to say Zimmer wasn't a fan of paying Cousins a bunch of money at the expense of other parts of the team. Spielman picked Cousins, which in hindsight, hasn't panned out the way we thought it would. He wasn't the missing piece to take a contender to the Super Bowl. Now the team has slowly dissolved in key areas (DL and CB) and the OL still has some issues (C and RG).
This isn't a criticism of only Spielman. It's the whole Spielman/Zimmer/Cousins group that was supposed to elevate this team. Instead, we have a good QB who doesn't always have it in close games. We have a coach that wants to rely on his defense and stud RB to close out close games, but we don't have the personnel to do it anymore (at least on defense). And our GM hasn't been able to fix the OL in how many years and draft picks and FA signings. At some points you have to look at the entire package and say do we have the right GM, Coach, and QB to take this team where it needs to go?
I personally still have faith in Zimmer and Spielman and Cousins to an extent with how he finished last season and how he's played this season. But I can see why some fans don't believe in any of these 3 anymore.
I think the #1 priority in the off-season is to find a stud pass rusher, #2 is to find a C who can anchor, and #3 get another good CB. That's how I'd rank it based on what I've seen this season.
@"Wetlander" said:@"StickyBun" said: Yeah, its not the prettiest picture or return on investment. There's more to it then those stats, but its what it ultimately comes down to regardless how snakebit the organization or Zimmer have been: wins. Putting it altogether has been impossible for this franchise. There's always some aspect of the team lacking for whatever reason. That's why anyone that criticizes Zimmer for the team's shortcomings should also look to the guy responsible for constructing the roster in the first place...From what has been reported in the past, I think it's safe to say Zimmer wasn't a fan of paying Cousins a bunch of money at the expense of other parts of the team. Spielman picked Cousins, which in hindsight, hasn't panned out the way we thought it would. He wasn't the missing piece to take a contender to the Super Bowl. Now the team has slowly dissolved in key areas (DL and CB) and the OL still has some issues (C and RG).
This isn't a criticism of only Spielman. It's the whole Spielman/Zimmer/Cousins group that was supposed to elevate this team. Instead, we have a good QB who doesn't always have it in close games. We have a coach that wants to rely on his defense and stud RB to close out close games, but we don't have the personnel to do it anymore (at least on defense). And our GM hasn't been able to fix the OL in how many years and draft picks and FA signings. At some points you have to look at the entire package and say do we have the right GM, Coach, and QB to take this team where it needs to go?
I personally still have faith in Zimmer and Spielman and Cousins to an extent with how he finished last season and how he's played this season. But I can see why some fans don't believe in any of these 3 anymore.
I think the #1 priority in the off-season is to find a stud pass rusher, #2 is to find a C who can anchor, and #3 get another good CB. That's how I'd rank it based on what I've seen this season.
Agreed on all points. Especially next year, with many weapons returning plus the development of the young guys, I too would like to grab a pass rusher (1st round pick, Solomon Thomas, Ogbah), vet center, and another starting quality CB (PJ Williams).Give me a guy who can anchor the line (Karras, Jones, or Corbett) with players like Davis and Cleveland developing at G, should be a strong OL to go with a group of studs offensively.
Those key pieces with innovative coaching should make for a strong contender.
3 offensive Coordinators in 4 years
An Oline ranked in the bottom of the league all 4 years.
.500 sounds about right.
@"Wetlander" said:@"StickyBun" said: Yeah, its not the prettiest picture or return on investment. There's more to it then those stats, but its what it ultimately comes down to regardless how snakebit the organization or Zimmer have been: wins. Putting it altogether has been impossible for this franchise. There's always some aspect of the team lacking for whatever reason. That's why anyone that criticizes Zimmer for the team's shortcomings should also look to the guy responsible for constructing the roster in the first place...From what has been reported in the past, I think it's safe to say Zimmer wasn't a fan of paying Cousins a bunch of money at the expense of other parts of the team. Spielman picked Cousins, which in hindsight, hasn't panned out the way we thought it would. He wasn't the missing piece to take a contender to the Super Bowl. Now the team has slowly dissolved in key areas (DL and CB) and the OL still has some issues (C and RG).
This isn't a criticism of only Spielman. It's the whole Spielman/Zimmer/Cousins group that was supposed to elevate this team. Instead, we have a good QB who doesn't always have it in close games. We have a coach that wants to rely on his defense and stud RB to close out close games, but we don't have the personnel to do it anymore (at least on defense). And our GM hasn't been able to fix the OL in how many years and draft picks and FA signings. At some points you have to look at the entire package and say do we have the right GM, Coach, and QB to take this team where it needs to go?
I personally still have faith in Zimmer and Spielman and Cousins to an extent with how he finished last season and how he's played this season. But I can see why some fans don't believe in any of these 3 anymore.
I think the #1 priority in the off-season is to find a stud pass rusher, #2 is to find a C who can anchor, and #3 get another good CB. That's how I'd rank it based on what I've seen this season.
I'm pretty close to this too. First round should be best defensive player available (really like Sauce Gardner). Second round should be center/IOL unless, Wyatt Davis is a realistic replacement at center, then go DE or CB, which ever one isnt drafted first round. After that, mix in another CB, LB, WR, IOL, and TE.
Just for reference, when people discuss wins against winning
opponents, the number is a lot lower than what you would imagine it would be.
Something like 20% of the QBs are above 50%. The average QB winning percentage is 35.5%
against winning teams. The average QB
would win 6.74 out of 19 games.
https://www.sportsandfitnessdigest.com/active-nfl-quarterback-records-against-winning-teams/
@"Wetlander" said:@"StickyBun" said: Yeah, its not the prettiest picture or return on investment. There's more to it then those stats, but its what it ultimately comes down to regardless how snakebit the organization or Zimmer have been: wins. Putting it altogether has been impossible for this franchise. There's always some aspect of the team lacking for whatever reason. That's why anyone that criticizes Zimmer for the team's shortcomings should also look to the guy responsible for constructing the roster in the first place...From what has been reported in the past, I think it's safe to say Zimmer wasn't a fan of paying Cousins a bunch of money at the expense of other parts of the team. Spielman picked Cousins, which in hindsight, hasn't panned out the way we thought it would. He wasn't the missing piece to take a contender to the Super Bowl. Now the team has slowly dissolved in key areas (DL and CB) and the OL still has some issues (C and RG).
This isn't a criticism of only Spielman. It's the whole Spielman/Zimmer/Cousins group that was supposed to elevate this team. Instead, we have a good QB who doesn't always have it in close games. We have a coach that wants to rely on his defense and stud RB to close out close games, but we don't have the personnel to do it anymore (at least on defense). And our GM hasn't been able to fix the OL in how many years and draft picks and FA signings. At some points you have to look at the entire package and say do we have the right GM, Coach, and QB to take this team where it needs to go?
I personally still have faith in Zimmer and Spielman and Cousins to an extent with how he finished last season and how he's played this season. But I can see why some fans don't believe in any of these 3 anymore.
I think the #1 priority in the off-season is to find a stud pass rusher, #2 is to find a C who can anchor, and #3 get another good CB. That's how I'd rank it based on what I've seen this season.
I agree wholeheartedly with this.
@"medaille" said: Just for reference, when people discuss wins against winning opponents, the number is a lot lower than what you would imagine it would be.Something like 20% of the QBs are above 50%. The average QB winning percentage is 35.5%
against winning teams. The average QB
would win 6.74 out of 19 games.
https://www.sportsandfitnessdigest.com/active-nfl-quarterback-records-against-winning-teams/
yeah, it is certainly an overused stat that really means nothing. Rodgers lost to the Vikings, Chiefs and Saints this year. They have only beat AZ and SF for good teams. Not sure of the Bengals and Steeler record.
In that list, Goff is essentially tied with Rodgers. Only 4 QBs are above .500.
@"greediron" said:@"medaille" said: Just for reference, when people discuss wins against winning opponents, the number is a lot lower than what you would imagine it would be.Something like 20% of the QBs are above 50%. The average QB winning percentage is 35.5%
against winning teams. The average QB
would win 6.74 out of 19 games.
https://www.sportsandfitnessdigest.com/active-nfl-quarterback-records-against-winning-teams/
yeah, it is certainly an overused stat that really means nothing. Rodgers lost to the Vikings, Chiefs and Saints this year. They have only beat AZ and SF for good teams. Not sure of the Bengals and Steeler record.In that list, Goff is essentially tied with Rodgers. Only 4 QBs are above .500.
I don't think it's meaningless, just that realistic numbers are lower than what people expect. I think most people would assume that middle of the pack would be around .500 and it's not. I think it's tough to imagine guys on the bottom of that list running the table in the playoffs against playoff caliber teams though unless they're small sample sizes. I also think better QBs are going to have better long term records against all teams and against winning teams. I think the one thing you could look at is guys who win a lot against bad teams but wilt against good teams, but that's a deeper look than most people go.
@"Wetlander" said:@"StickyBun" said: Yeah, its not the prettiest picture or return on investment. There's more to it then those stats, but its what it ultimately comes down to regardless how snakebit the organization or Zimmer have been: wins. Putting it altogether has been impossible for this franchise. There's always some aspect of the team lacking for whatever reason. That's why anyone that criticizes Zimmer for the team's shortcomings should also look to the guy responsible for constructing the roster in the first place...From what has been reported in the past, I think it's safe to say Zimmer wasn't a fan of paying Cousins a bunch of money at the expense of other parts of the team. Spielman picked Cousins, which in hindsight, hasn't panned out the way we thought it would. He wasn't the missing piece to take a contender to the Super Bowl. Now the team has slowly dissolved in key areas (DL and CB) and the OL still has some issues (C and RG).
This isn't a criticism of only Spielman. It's the whole Spielman/Zimmer/Cousins group that was supposed to elevate this team. Instead, we have a good QB who doesn't always have it in close games. We have a coach that wants to rely on his defense and stud RB to close out close games, but we don't have the personnel to do it anymore (at least on defense). And our GM hasn't been able to fix the OL in how many years and draft picks and FA signings. At some points you have to look at the entire package and say do we have the right GM, Coach, and QB to take this team where it needs to go?
I personally still have faith in Zimmer and Spielman and Cousins to an extent with how he finished last season and how he's played this season. But I can see why some fans don't believe in any of these 3 anymore.
I think the #1 priority in the off-season is to find a stud pass rusher, #2 is to find a C who can anchor, and #3 get another good CB. That's how I'd rank it based on what I've seen this season.
All what you are saying is where I have been two years and counting
- Spielman should go. I have shown time without number how his draft picks are mostly more flash than substance plus the Cousins extension
- Zimmer should go: Game management, poor adjustments at critical moments. abysmal reliance on defence in 2019.
- Cousins should be phased out. I am still frustrated that we did not draft Mac Jones
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