OT: Why would live rounds ever need to be on a movie set?

I heard the prop assistant/armorer on this set was a 24 year old girl that had done in once before. She had said on some interview days before she was 'nervous' about it. 

"The attention of the US media recently turned to the 24-year-old gun master, who was responsible for the proper handling of all weapons on the set. “Rust” was only the second film she was involved in in this role after “The Old Way” directed by Brett Donowho.
The news site “Daily Beast” reported, citing two sources involved in the production, that incidents in the film “The Old Way” with Nicolas Cage and Clint Howard had caused concern among crew members.
Production is said to have been stopped briefly after the 24-year-old gave an eleven-year-old actress a gun without properly checking it beforehand. The prop master of the film told the “Los Angeles Times” that he had had a positive impression of her despite initial skepticism and was surprised that the fatal incident had now happened under her supervision."

Agree with the title, I just don't understand that.  Sounds like there were many safety issues there, like this having happened before and not being investigated.  Live rounds were stored in the sam location as blanks.  Also, sounds like they used the "prop" gun for target practice during off-times.  either of those last two would explain that mystery.  

Sad situation.

There is absolutely no reason for this whatsoever. 

This cant be true. I thought all 20 year olds were lazy and mooching off their parents. 

@"greediron" said:   Also, sounds like they used the "prop" gun for target practice during off-times.  either of those last two would explain that mystery.  

Wait a minute, as a non-native speaker I just want to make sure I understand this correctly: On days/times off, they took a gun which was there for the shooting of the movie for target practice with live rounds???

Wow...if that's true I've got a pretty good guess what actually happened now...unbelievable.

No one ever needs to use live rounds.  Remember “live” means blanks anyway. And if you do use blanks those charges can be set at 1/4 charge. All of it can be sweetened in post.  And the protocol I have experienced is—first a safety meeting with everyone on set when a gun is to used. The gun is shown to everyone, usually noting that the chambers can’t be filled with a live bullet, or it’s a starter pistol with a solid barrel. The gun is never used for a rehearsal. You point your finger and say “bang”. When it comes to rolling camera the gun is shown again to the actor to prove it is safe. After each take the armorer takes it. And before the next take he goes through the same protocol of showing the chamber to the actor. This means it should NEVER have happened. 25 years ago I did a low budget film (like Rust) where we used live fully loaded charges (blanks) with no ear plugs.  I  lost 1/3 of my hearing. Stupid. Luckily I was firing at a door-not a human. 

@"Caactorvike" said: No one ever needs to use live rounds.  Remember “live” means blanks anyway. And if you do use blanks those charges can be set at 1/4 charge. All of it can be sweetened in post.  And the protocol I have experienced is—first a safety meeting with everyone on set when a gun is to used. The gun is shown to everyone, usually noting that the chambers can’t be filled with a live bullet, or it’s a starter pistol with a solid barrel. The gun is never used for a rehearsal. You point your finger and say “bang”. When it comes to rolling camera the gun is shown again to the actor to prove it is safe. After each take the armorer takes it. And before the next take he goes through the same protocol of showing the chamber to the actor. This means it should NEVER have happened. 

25 years ago I did a low budget film (like Rust) where we used live fully loaded charges (blanks) with no ear plugs.  I  lost 1/3 of my hearing. Stupid. Luckily I was firing at a door-not a human. 

Good insight from an actor. Its just so tragic that you solidify beyond a doubt this should have never happened.

@"GermanVike" said:

@"greediron" said:   Also, sounds like they used the "prop" gun for target practice during off-times.  either of those last two would explain that mystery.  

Wait a minute, as a non-native speaker I just want to make sure I understand this correctly: On days/times off, they took a gun which was there for the shooting of the movie for target practice with live rounds???

Wow...if that's true I've got a pretty good guess what actually happened now...unbelievable.

The assistant director on the movie “Rust,” who handed a prop gun to Alec Baldwin before the fatal shooting last week, was previously fired from a film production after a gun incident injured a crew member, the movie’s production company told CNN.
Dave Halls was serving as assistant director on the film “Freedom’s Path” in 2019, when a gun “unexpectedly discharged” on set, causing a sound crew member to recoil from the blast, halting production, the production company Rocket Soul Studios said Monday.
The sound crew member was evaluated by an on-set medic and advised to seek medical treatment. The crew member returned to the production a few days later, Rocket Soul said.
Following the incident, Halls was removed from the set and fired from the production, the company said.

“Halls was removed from set immediately after the prop gun discharged. Production did not resume filming until Dave was off site. An incident report was taken and filed at that time,” it said.

“Upon wrapping production for the day, Dave Halls was officially terminated and given the specific reasons for his termination,” The company continued. “Dave was very remorseful for the events, and understood the reasons he was being terminated. A new assistant director as well as a new armorer were hired for the duration of principal photography. Production of the film finished successfully.”
When reached by CNN, the sound crew member did not want to comment on the matter. Halls could not be reached for comment.

Chuck Norris always used real bullets so there is that....plus no one likes any actor who shoots blanks.

This is Merica where even movie sets have the right to bare arms :)   

I'm here all night folks, so get used to it.  If you don't like my sarcasm shoot me!

@"minny65" said: Chuck Norris always used real bullets so there is that....plus no one likes any actor who shoots blanks.

This is Merica where even movie sets have the right to bare arms :)   

I'm here all night folks, so get used to it.  If you don't like my sarcasm shoot me!

I feel triggered. 

@"Caactorvike" said: “…25 years ago I did a low budget film (like Rust) where we used live fully loaded charges (blanks)…”

30 years ago I was in a low budget movie, but I was young and needed money (it was mostly artistic and had a plot). I remember the Director always calling for the “Money Shot,” whatever that means. Strangely, I don’t recall any firearms on the set. 

@"BStads" said:

@"Caactorvike" said: “…25 years ago I did a low budget film (like Rust) where we used live fully loaded charges (blanks)…”

30 years ago I was in a low budget movie, but I was young and needed money (it was mostly artistic and had a plot). I remember the Director always calling for the “Money Shot,” whatever that means. Strangely, I don’t recall any firearms on the set. 

Reminds me of Brandon Lee's death (of The Crow fame and Bruce Lees son):
On March 31, 1993, Lee was filming a scene in The Crow where his character is shot and killed by thugs. In the scene, Lee's character walks into his apartment and discovers his fiancée being beaten and raped, and a thug played by actor Michael Massee fires a Smith & Wesson Model 629 .44 Magnum revolver at Lee's character as he walks into the room.
In the film shoot preceding the fatal scene, the prop gun (which was a real revolver) was loaded with improperly made dummy rounds, improvised from live cartridges that had the powder charges removed by the special effects crew, so in close-ups the revolver would show normal-looking ammunition. However, the crew neglected to remove the primers from the cartridges, and at some point before the fatal event, one of the rounds had been fired. Although there were no powder charges, the energy from the ignited primer was enough to separate the bullet from the casing and push it part-way into the gun barrel, where it got stuck—a dangerous condition known as a squib load. During the fatal scene, which called for the revolver to be fired at Lee from a distance of 3.6–4.5 meters (12–15 ft), the dummy cartridges were replaced with blank rounds, which contained a powder charge and the primer, but no solid bullet, allowing the gun to be fired with sound and flash effects without the risk of an actual projectile. However, the gun was not properly checked and cleared before the blank was fired, and the dummy bullet previously lodged in the barrel was then propelled forward by the blank's propellant and shot out the muzzle with almost the same force as if the round were live, striking Lee in the abdomen.

I was just thinking about Brandon Lee. What a sad and preventable tragedy that was. I was listening to his fiance Eliza Hutton speaking about this. I can't imagine losing someone you love in that way. I love the movie The Crow. I thought there was supposed to be a change in safety guidelines after that but I am wondering if people were not following them or what. Thank you CA for your insight as well.

Maybe the actors need to learn from this and start treating guns like kids are taught to treat guns when they take a hunters safety course?  Always handle a gun as if its loaded
 Never assume a gun is empty,  always check a gun yourself when its been out of your possession prior to using it.  

Every time I pick up one of my guns to carry or go shoot I check the chamber,  and the last thing I do before storing a gun is to check the chamber.

This is sad,  but I would say even on a movie set gun safety should be followed.  Why not teach the actors to load their own guns for their scenes and that way they alone would be responsible for the actions of the gun they are using,  just like everybody else that uses one?

@"JimmyinSD" said: Maybe the actors need to learn from this and start treating guns like kids are taught to treat guns when they take a hunters safety course?  Always handle a gun as if its loaded  Never assume a gun is empty,  always check a gun yourself when its been out of your possession prior to using it.  

Every time I pick up one of my guns to carry or go shoot I check the chamber,  and the last thing I do before storing a gun is to check the chamber.

This is sad,  but I would say even on a movie set gun safety should be followed.  Why not teach the actors to load their own guns for their scenes and that way they alone would be responsible for the actions of the gun they are using,  just like everybody else that uses one?

They supposedly have gun safety, but like most gun laws surrounding a tragedy, they aren't followed.  

Sounds like the guy handing the actor the gun is supposed to check and call it out, but obviously didn't check this one.  The armorer is also supposed to be that person, but since covid is more likely to kill than guns, that wasn't the case.  Can't have the actor being exposed and can assume the actor has time to practice gun safety.

@"BStads" said:

@"Caactorvike" said: “…25 years ago I did a low budget film (like Rust) where we used live fully loaded charges (blanks)…”

30 years ago I was in a low budget movie, but I was young and needed money (it was mostly artistic and had a plot). I remember the Director always calling for the “Money Shot,” whatever that means. Strangely, I don’t recall any firearms on the set.