More Bye Week Musing: Our Losses

Good teams find ways to win those types of games,   our record is what it is for a reason. 

I think our biggest question mark is PK.

Youd think this. ould have been figured out by now

@"JimmyinSD" said: Good teams find ways to win those types of games,   our record is what it is for a reason. 

Yeah, I've been to too many rodeos with the Vikings for me to care about anything but record and playoff wins at this point. They are 3-3 now, lets see what they do from here. Its not like the NFC is a juggernaut of great teams. 

@"Vanguard83" said: I think our biggest question mark is PK.

Youd think this. ould have been figured out by now

I think we've got bigger issues than a missed kick here or there.  There are other reasons that these games are going to the wire and are left up to the kicker. 

I'm convinced of only two things:

1. Vikings are one of the most talented teams in the NFL, capable of beating any team in the NFL.
2. Vikings are straitjacketed by their coach, whose conservative "play not to lose" style makes them capable of losing to any team in the NFL.

The woulda, shoulda, coulda or what ifs don't matter. Their record is what it is. Sure they have tweaked some things but they are still a work in progress as usual. If they show up against the Cowboys and win great. If not, then they are just further back once again. They gotta stop shooting themselves in the foot and digging holes for themselves.

Wake me when they beat a team with a winning record..

All that toxicity aside for a moment, I'm ready to jump on the wagon if they get their s hit together more so than looking like an 8 or 9 win team

https://www.nfl.com/standings/league/2021/reg

@"JimmyinSD" said: Good teams find ways to win those types of games,   our record is what it is for a reason. 

Sometimes good teams have challenging stretches of games where they don’t look so good.  What matters is that you do good enough to get into the playoffs, and that you are good enough at that time.  Obviously it’s better to be good all the time, but sometimes you have some obstacles to overcome.

I’m still concerned, like most people are, about the lack of
aggression we see, but Zimmer has publicly acknowledged it, so hopefully it
will change.

The Vikings' first four opponents after the bye — the Cowboys, Ravens, Chargers and Packers — are a combined 20-6. They will face the 49ers and Lions in back-to-back road games after that, followed by a Thursday night home game against the Steelers. 
Then comes a four-week stretch of games against NFC opponents that are currently in the playoff race (the Bears, Rams, Packers and Bears again). The Vikings' final two road games are at night in the NFC North's two coldest venues (Soldier Field and Lambeau Field).
If they are able to coax a playoff berth out of an 11-game schedule that includes six on the road, six against teams with winning records and four against NFC North opponents, they will have reason to think they can make a postseason run and that they should keep their GM-coach-QB triumvirate of Spielman, Zimmer and Cousins together. 
A second consecutive season where the Vikings miss the playoffs — which hasn't happened yet under Spielman and Zimmer — could lead to big changes this offseason.
It doesn't figure to be uneventful, in a season where very little has been dull.
https://www.startribune.com/five-things-to-watch-as-vikings-mike-zimmer-patrick-peterson-kirk-cousins/600109659/

@"medaille" said:

@"JimmyinSD" said: Good teams find ways to win those types of games,   our record is what it is for a reason. 

Sometimes good teams have challenging stretches of games where they don’t look so good.  What matters is that you do good enough to get into the playoffs, and that you are good enough at that time.  Obviously it’s better to be good all the time, but sometimes you have some obstacles to overcome.

I’m still concerned, like most people are, about the lack of
aggression we see, but Zimmer has publicly acknowledged it, so hopefully it
will change.

@"purplefaithful" said: The Vikings' first four opponents after the bye — the Cowboys, Ravens, Chargers and Packers — are a combined 20-6. They will face the 49ers and Lions in back-to-back road games after that, followed by a Thursday night home game against the Steelers.  Then comes a four-week stretch of games against NFC opponents that are currently in the playoff race (the Bears, Rams, Packers and Bears again). The Vikings' final two road games are at night in the NFC North's two coldest venues (Soldier Field and Lambeau Field). If they are able to coax a playoff berth out of an 11-game schedule that includes six on the road, six against teams with winning records and four against NFC North opponents, they will have reason to think they can make a postseason run and that they should keep their GM-coach-QB triumvirate of Spielman, Zimmer and Cousins together.  A second consecutive season where the Vikings miss the playoffs — which hasn't happened yet under Spielman and Zimmer — could lead to big changes this offseason. It doesn't figure to be uneventful, in a season where very little has been dull. https://www.startribune.com/five-things-to-watch-as-vikings-mike-zimmer-patrick-peterson-kirk-cousins/600109659/

Absolutely brutal schedule for any team. After Vikings host the Cowboys, we play Ravens, Chargers, Packers, 49ers and Lions, with 4 of those 5 on the road. As if the stretch of teams weren't enough...

IT is brutal...And you know what? If sonny boy makes that 37 yard chip-shot against Zona? I'm feeling pretty dang good about things.

Now, I dont know what kinda team we have yet in 21. 

@"purplefaithful" said: IT is brutal...And you know what? If sonny boy makes that 37 yard chip-shot against Zona? I'm feeling pretty dang good about things.

Now, I dont know what kinda team we have yet in 21. 

Truth is, we're a chip shot away from beating the best team in the league...and a 4-2 record. We're also a blown call away from beating a very good Cincinnati team...and a 5-1 record. With that record we'd all be feeling pretty dang good. But it wouldn't change who we are. Not in my mind anyway. We'd just be that "pretender atop the NFC who squeaked out wins against the Bengals, Cards, Lions and Panthers." You know I'm right. :-)

I know some will say "you are what your record says you are," which is silly. Nobody actually believes that. Vegas certainly doesn't. And so they hate it when you bring up the woulda coulda stuff. But here's the deal: it's the truth. And you can't evaluate a team accurately without acknowledging the truth. 

Here's another truth: We're a team that, mystifyingly, let Detroit and Carolina back into games in which they were dominated for 3.9 quarters. 

Truth is, we're all of the above. But we're not alone. Go ahead, try to figure out who the Ravens are, the Chargers, the 49ers, Steelers, etc. 

I was listening to local radio talk jocks and the prevailing feeling here is the weakest elements of the Vikings are (in order of magnitude):

Zimmer 
Run Defense
Kubiak growing pains
Bradbury 

The next 4-5 games will make or break the season.

And probably determine if Zimmer is here next season or in Ky. 

I think we'd all feel better about this team if we had a reliable kicker. Out of 6 games, he's only had three where he didn't have a missed XP or FG.  Is that the norm now to expect a kicker to miss at least one or two kicks a game?  Those last two wins wouldn't have been so close if Joseph could make all those late game kicks.  The AZ loss could've been a huge W, if he makes that one too. 

Week 1: 3/3 xps 1/1 fgs (loss to CIN)
Week 2: 3/4 xps 2/3 fgs (loss to AZ)
Week 3: 3/3 xps 3/3 fgs (Win SEA)
Week 4: 1/1 xps 0/0 fgs (loss to CLE)
Week 5: 1/1 xps 4/5 fgs (Win DET)
Week 6: 1/1 xps 3/5 fgs (Win CAR)

@"HappyViking" said:

I think we'd all feel better about this team if we had a reliable kicker. Out of 6 games, he's only had three where he didn't have a missed XP or FG.  Is that the norm now to expect a kicker to miss at least one or two kicks a game?  Those last two wins wouldn't have been so close if Joseph could make all those late game kicks.  The AZ loss could've been a huge W, if he make that one too. 

Week 1: 3/3 xps 1/1 fgs (loss to CIN)
Week 2: 3/4 xps 2/3 fgs (loss to AZ)
Week 3: 3/3 xps 3/3 fgs (Win SEA)
Week 4: 1/1 xps 0/0 fgs (loss to CLE)
Week 5: 1/1 xps 4/5 fgs (Win DET)
Week 6: 1/1 xps 3/5 fgs (Win CAR)

Average FG % across the league hovers around 80% (1 miss out of every 5 kicks).  So depending on how many times a game you attempt FG, you probably are going to miss one every 1-3 games.  The league average team has 12 FG attempts over 7 games (1.7 attempts per game or one miss every 3 games).  The Vikings are amongst the leaders with 17 attempts (2.8 attempts per game or one miss every 7 quarters if we had a league average kicker).  That doesn't include XPs.

Moving the extra point was stupid and all about drama for the NFL.  It has mind fucked a lot of these kickers as well.  

Think about if you are a golfer, a old XP was essentially a 1-2 footer.  Pretty close to automatic (unless you are Doug O'Brien, OUCH).  Now, imagine every hole out was from 4-5 feet, you are going to miss a couple and doubt will start creeping in your head.  

Move it back and stop being so dramatic NFL

@"HappyViking" said:

I think we'd all feel better about this team if we had a reliable kicker. Out of 6 games, he's only had three where he didn't have a missed XP or FG.  Is that the norm now to expect a kicker to miss at least one or two kicks a game?  Those last two wins wouldn't have been so close if Joseph could make all those late game kicks.  The AZ loss could've been a huge W, if he make that one too. 

Week 1: 3/3 xps 1/1 fgs (loss to CIN)
Week 2: 3/4 xps 2/3 fgs (loss to AZ)
Week 3: 3/3 xps 3/3 fgs (Win SEA)
Week 4: 1/1 xps 0/0 fgs (loss to CLE)
Week 5: 1/1 xps 4/5 fgs (Win DET)
Week 6: 1/1 xps 3/5 fgs (Win CAR)

The thing I take away from that, Happy...  we aren't scoring enough TDs in Weeks 4-6.  All those games could/should have been blowouts, but our offense stalled out too many times.  Blame that on who/what you want, but like that Carolina game...  yards are good and all (and we had what, like 570 offensive yards???) but points win games and our offense settled for too many FGs after moving the ball up and down the field.  Hopefully the coaching staff used the bye week to do some self-scouting and figured out what was working on offense and defense.  This might be a perfect time for the bye week...  we've had some uneven performances in all phases...  in different games.  Maybe we get them synced up for this middle stretch of games?

I agree, Wet, we shouldn't count on 3 to 5 FGs to win games, but Joseph needs to get better to stay in the NFL.  He's currently at 76% accuracy with 19 kickers above him.  Hopefully he improves the rest of the way.  Some of his attempts are at the end of the half or game when they had to drive the field with under a minute to play.  He's made some of those, but also has missed.

@"purplefaithful" said: I was listening to local radio talk jocks and the prevailing feeling here is the weakest elements of the Vikings are (in order of magnitude):

Zimmer 
Run Defense
Kubiak growing pains
Bradbury 

The next 4-5 games will make or break the season.

And probably determine if Zimmer is here next season or in Ky. 

I wouldn't disagree. But if those are our weak elements, not that bad compared to most teams.