Misc. Thoughts: Seahawks
So, I may have overacted a bit after the first two losses but here are my miscellaneous thoughts about the Seahawks game.
- 3 biggest surprises: (1) Klint Kubiak called an excellent game -- it may be the best offensive game plan for the last couple of seasons. He kept the Seahawks off balance; didn't seem predictable. (2) Zimmer made excellent adjustments during the game. I am not used to Zimm makings adjustments during a game so successfully. (3). Offensive line gelling and pass protecting.
- 3 biggest disappointments: (1) Interior of the defensive line. I really thought this would be the strength of the defense and it is simply not. (2) The defensive backs. (3) Roster talent evaluation. Not sure why the Vikes traded a 4th for Herndon. Conklin looked good when he got playing time last year and he continues to look good. It seems to me that the coaching staff builds a narrative around players are are loath to deviate from that narrative despite on field performance. Dozier is a prime example of this. It reminds me of boxing where an opponent basically must knock out a champ to gain the crown - merely outboxing a reigning champs is not enough to unseat the incumbent champ. This might be why Breeland played the entire game -- he is the current champ at the position and no one has completely and dominantly outshined him to knock him to the bench.
- KJ: Just want to give KJ his props. He put the work in and it shows. He is a question I ponder, BTW, would KJ be the 3rd receiver if (a) Dede had not arrived injured and/or (b) Beebe had not been injured? As stated above, I really question whether the coaching staff would have given KJ a fair chance under those circumstances.
- Dede - punt returner: Because he is getting so little run with the offense, I think he is really pressing as a returner. He needs to stop pressing or there is going to be a really bad result at some point.
- Cook: Here is anther thing I am pondering: would the game plan have been so unpredictable if Cooks had played? It is sort of like the old Randy Ratio, feed Cook. It makes me think about the Kubiak quote (posted by MB): Kubiak: "I think it’s trying to get the ball to our best player, and Dalvin’s one of our best players. Just trying to find plays you think are going to work. Anything to Dalvin -- Dalvin left, Dalvin right, hand it off, throw it to him." Do you think Dalvin being out made Kubiak's offense more unpredictable? Not that I wouldn't want to play Dalvin, I just hate a huge reliance on him that may make the Vikings more predictable. Just a thought.
- Kicker: Admittedly, I was not overly optimistic about the game. However, there was one small thing after the Cardinals game that gave me a feeling that the Vikes just might turn a corner: the Vikings largely defending their kicker. Zimm publicly defended him and a number of players went to him and made his feel better. It seemed to me that the missed kick could actually be a rallying point; that it could bring the team closer. There has been a lot of divisive things with team during the offseason -- whether it be vaccinations, Griffen's past comments about Cousins, etc. but it was nice to see the team defend the kicker rather than throw him under the bus. It is a small thing, but I thought it was important.
- Shoddy reporting of the week: USAToday about yesterday's game and the Vikings defense: "The Vikings created timely turnovers and prevented the game from being a shootout."
- One Last Thing: Someone posted a video in the OL thread highlighting the blocking on the Thielen touchdown. I watched it and was impressed by something else. If you have a chance to watch it, look for JJ breaking totally open under Thielen -- really, really open. Cousin went to Thielen instead and threaded the past into tight coverage. Good for him. Too often we have seen Cousins go to his check down and not trust his receivers. To me, watching that play made me think Cousins is evolving.
A nit to pick, Zimmer has been pretty good at adjustments mid game. Not sure if anyone remembers the Frazier era.
@"VikingOracle" said: So, I may have overacted a bit after the first two losses but here are my miscellaneous thoughts about the Seahawks game.I concur about the kicker. Nice to see him rally, and with the full support of the team.
- Cook: Here is anther thing I am pondering: would the game plan have been so unpredictable if Cooks had played? It is sort of like the old Randy Ratio, feed Cook. It makes me think about the Kubiak quote (posted by MB): Kubiak: "I think it’s trying to get the ball to our best player, and Dalvin’s one of our best players. Just trying to find plays you think are going to work. Anything to Dalvin -- Dalvin left, Dalvin right, hand it off, throw it to him." Do you think Dalvin being out made Kubiak's offense more unpredictable? Not that I wouldn't want to play Dalvin, I just hate a huge reliance on him that may make the Vikings more predictable. Just a thought.
- Kicker: Admittedly, I was not overly optimistic about the game. However, there was one small thing after the Cardinals game that gave me a feeling that the Vikes just might turn a corner: the Vikings largely defending their kicker. Zimm publicly defended him and a number of players went to him and made his feel better. It seemed to me that the missed kick could actually be a rallying point; that it could bring the team closer. There has been a lot of divisive things with team during the offseason -- whether it be vaccinations, Griffen's past comments about Cousins, etc. but it was nice to see the team defend the kicker rather than throw him under the bus. It is a small thing, but I thought it was important.
As to cook, perhaps the Seahawks didn't gameplan Mattison the same as they would Cook. So is that unpredictable or just the seahawks not focusing on our strength.
@"greediron" said: A nit to pick, Zimmer has been pretty good at adjustments mid game. Not sure if anyone remembers the Frazier era.You know what, worth re-visiting my thoughts in that respect. "The Vikings' offense can put up points, and their defensive staff remains adept at making mid-game adjustments." https://news.yahoo.com/second-thoughts-vikings-win-over-160900025.html
Mattison played very well against Seattle last year, so I doubt they would have overlooked him. I do think that Kubiak had an excellent game plan utilizing screens and power running that played well into Mattison's strengths. They were also utilizing some short passes and WR screens to supplement the running game, which didn't work as well.
As for Cook, I do think they rely on him too much. He's an excellent back, but seems to wear down late in games and make mistakes like the fumble against Cincy. I wish they would work Mattison in more as a change of pace back. Keeping running and hammering defense, but keep Cook fresher for when we need him at the end of games.
Solid points. I won't ding them on trading for Herndon just yet. They've used two TE formations a ton in recent years, and asides from Conklin you had two pretty raw players in Dillon and Davidson. I can see why they didn't want to be caught shorthanded.
Excellent breakdown. Couple things...
Zimmer made excellent adjustments during the game. I am not used to Zimm makings adjustments during a game so successfully.
You should be. He's been doing this for 8 years. Remember that Packer game a few years ago? Vikings couldn't stop the Packers opening script. They went up like 21-0. After the half, I think Rodgers had 40 yards and 0 1st downs. There have been several games like this.
Interior of the defensive line. I really thought this would be the strength of the defense and it is simply not.
Couldn't agree more. I mean, what the hell? Michael Pierce is really good. Tomlinson was the top DT free agent prize, then we added Sheldon Richardson and Everson. That IDL is stacked. They should be a lot better than they have been. The whole defensive scheme depends on them shutting down the run. Hopefully it's just adjusting to the scheme.
Do you think Dalvin being out made Kubiak's offense more unpredictable?
No. Reminds me of the crowd who thought Moe Williams was better than Robert Smith. Defenses played him differently. Mattison's a good back, but Seattle would've played Dalvin differently. Also, a few of those screens that Mattison took for 20, Dalvin would've housed.
Kicker
Joseph has been great. Sounds like Zimmer has learned his lesson on that, too. Yes, he missed a kick, but he's also 6 of 7 with most of those over 50. I think we have our kicker.
I think we saw Kubiak get into a rhythm last week in using Dalvin but not at the expense of Kirk. It carried over this week with Mattison.
Pierce and Tomlinson have very good ratings from PFF so not sure where the prob is. looks like backs are getting to our edges and doing damage.
Its a good thing our O took over the game, Carson was 12 for 80. Maybe there is some truth to Barr being valuable. Would love to see him back to test that theory.
@"Bullazin" said: Pierce and Tomlinson have very good ratings from PFF so not sure where the prob is. looks like backs are getting to our edges and doing damage.Its a good thing our O took over the game, Carson was 12 for 80. Maybe there is some truth to Barr being valuable. Would love to see him back to test that theory.
Yeah, I think the middle is solid, but the RBs are getting outside. Carson tweaked his hammy, so that helped.
This is from the 1st 3 games of the season against the Vikings:
@"greediron" said: A nit to pick, Zimmer has been pretty good at adjustments mid game. Not sure if anyone remembers the Frazier era.Les is still watching the tape.
I have to agree, though I was all for firing both Zimmers during the first quarter last Sunday. My main issue with our adjustments is that they seem to take a full half to get done, which is too long in the NFL.
@"VikingOracle" said: So, I may have overacted a bit after the first two losses but here are my miscellaneous thoughts about the Seahawks game.Just saw this, Tomlinson only played 25 snaps
- 3 biggest disappointments: (1) Interior of the defensive line. I really thought this would be the strength of the defense and it is simply not.
Dalvin Tomlinson had himself a day on Sunday, making his presence known both as a run stuffer and as a pass rusher.
— Nick Olson (@NickOlsonNFL) September 28, 2021
Heck of a highlight reel considering he only wound up playing 25 snaps: pic.twitter.com/mD0NiChMbx
Dalvin Tomlinson and Michael Pierce started at defensive tackle, but it was Sheldon Richardson who played the most snaps there at 26. Tomlinson played 25 and Pierce played 21.
@"VikingOracle" said: Dalvin Tomlinson and Michael Pierce started at defensive tackle, but it was Sheldon Richardson who played the most snaps there at 26. Tomlinson played 25 and Pierce played 21.I would imagine Sheldon got so many snaps, since he was rotating in at both DT positions and they were playing with a lead in the second half forcing Seattle to pass more. Who else had snaps at DT on Sunday?
@"Tyr" said:@"VikingOracle" said: Dalvin Tomlinson and Michael Pierce started at defensive tackle, but it was Sheldon Richardson who played the most snaps there at 26. Tomlinson played 25 and Pierce played 21. I would imagine Sheldon got so many snaps, since he was rotating in at both DT positions and they were playing with a lead in the second half forcing Seattle to pass more. Who else had snaps at DT on Sunday?I am guessing Griffen moved inside on a number of snaps also.
- DT Armon Watts: 8
Both Tomlinson and Pierce got a game ball, so someone thought they played well.
@"greediron" said: Both Tomlinson and Pierce got a game ball, so someone thought they played well.I understand Dozier got one too. ;)
@"VikingOracle" said: Dalvin Tomlinson and Michael Pierce started at defensive tackle, but it was Sheldon Richardson who played the most snaps there at 26. Tomlinson played 25 and Pierce played 21.I think that's what the Vikings want to try to achieve. They have three starting-caliber DTs. Rotate them evenly, keep them all fresh. Same with the end opposite Hunter.
Was it just me or did it seem like the refs had some questionable spots during the game. Several times I thought easy first down including one Mattison run in the third where he clearly got past the yd sticks by a yd and a half+ and ref says third and short. granted we converted but I'm like wtf
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