And the Swiss cheese Vikings D wasted this.....

@"jargomcfargo" said: Why was Zimmer called the cornerback whisperer? Because he lucked into Dion Sanders. Sanders made Zimmer, not the other way around. Spielman can't find another Sanders and it shows. As long as Zimmer has to trot out players like Breeland and Dantzler, his defensive scheme is severely limited and vulnerable. Offensive coordinators have to be licking their chops when they see either of these guys on the field! I thought Peterson played pretty well overall. But he even had a mental lapse and let Rondale Moore, or whatever his name is, go free for a bomb.

Wilson is likely to carve these guys up next week and I don't think Zimmer will have any answers. 

Zims D needs to have bigger physical DBs to really shine IMO, they need to be able to bang at the LOS to take away those quick inside routes,  but then have the ability to flip hips and get up field with their charges instead of this pussy zone that neither takes away the short routes nor the over the top stuff since the safeties are far to often required to play in the box to help the run support.  PP should be ok,  but a rotation of Dantzler and Breeland will not hold up unless we can get them matched up smaller receivers,  unfortunately for Breeland,  I dont know that he has a bang in his coverage repertoire,  he does a nice job in run support,  but doesnt seem eager to smash a WR at the line.

@"MaroonBells" said:

@"StickyBun" said: And while I'm at it, I'd like to give MB some credit: he thought they'd play better, the O-line would play better and they did. I'm sure he didn't forecast the D playing quite as poorly as they did. 

Well thanks. Rather have the win. But yeah, only Viking fans can predict an absolute blow out and then bitch about our performance in a game we should've won. Shut out Chandler Jones, Picked Murray twice, gave up only 1 sack while Hunter himself got three, penalized only 3 times, Dalvin ran for 150. Clearly they cleaned up the mess from week 1. That's the good thing. 

Bad thing is we couldn't stop Murray. Like I said last week, defense is nearly irrelevant against a QB like that. If that's another QB, Vikings probably win this by 20. 

@"JimmyinSD" said:

@"jargomcfargo" said: Why was Zimmer called the cornerback whisperer? Because he lucked into Dion Sanders. Sanders made Zimmer, not the other way around. Spielman can't find another Sanders and it shows. As long as Zimmer has to trot out players like Breeland and Dantzler, his defensive scheme is severely limited and vulnerable. Offensive coordinators have to be licking their chops when they see either of these guys on the field! I thought Peterson played pretty well overall. But he even had a mental lapse and let Rondale Moore, or whatever his name is, go free for a bomb.

Wilson is likely to carve these guys up next week and I don't think Zimmer will have any answers. 

Zims D needs to have bigger physical DBs to really shine IMO, they need to be able to bang at the LOS to take away those quick inside routes,  but then have the ability to flip hips and get up field with their charges instead of this pussy zone that neither takes away the short routes nor the over the top stuff since the safeties are far to often required to play in the box to help the run support.  PP should be ok,  but a rotation of Dantzler and Breeland will not hold up unless we can get them matched up smaller receivers,  unfortunately for Breeland,  I dont know that he has a bang in his coverage repertoire,  he does a nice job in run support,  but doesnt seem eager to smash a WR at the line.

@"greediron" said:

@"JimmyinSD" said:

@"jargomcfargo" said: Why was Zimmer called the cornerback whisperer? Because he lucked into Dion Sanders. Sanders made Zimmer, not the other way around. Spielman can't find another Sanders and it shows. As long as Zimmer has to trot out players like Breeland and Dantzler, his defensive scheme is severely limited and vulnerable. Offensive coordinators have to be licking their chops when they see either of these guys on the field! I thought Peterson played pretty well overall. But he even had a mental lapse and let Rondale Moore, or whatever his name is, go free for a bomb.

Wilson is likely to carve these guys up next week and I don't think Zimmer will have any answers. 

Zims D needs to have bigger physical DBs to really shine IMO, they need to be able to bang at the LOS to take away those quick inside routes,  but then have the ability to flip hips and get up field with their charges instead of this pussy zone that neither takes away the short routes nor the over the top stuff since the safeties are far to often required to play in the box to help the run support.  PP should be ok,  but a rotation of Dantzler and Breeland will not hold up unless we can get them matched up smaller receivers,  unfortunately for Breeland,  I dont know that he has a bang in his coverage repertoire,  he does a nice job in run support,  but doesnt seem eager to smash a WR at the line.

I would say the NFL has made the physical dbs irrelevant.  Zim doesn't like zone, but what can you do if the NFL keeps handcuffing the defenders? And man coverage is dangerous with a mobile QB, zone works much better against that type of threat.

@"JimmyinSD" said:

@"MaroonBells" said: Meh...i don't blame Zim or the defense much for this one. I did last week. Last week we came to Ohio unprepared. You can blame the individual players for that if you want, but that it happened on so many levels leads me to believe it was a team-wide lack of focus. That's on the HC. 

This game? We did enough defensively to win against a team everyone said would destroy us. Picked him off twice, sacked him three times. Most of the shit Murray does is just indefensible. I don't care if you're the '85 Bears. 

It was feast or famine on D yesterday, Murray is a sophomore QB who had never faced Zimmer,  thats the kind of shit Zimmer used to exploit,   now its his D that is getting exposed by unseasoned QBs.

It was apparent last week that Breeland won't hold up against bigger receivers and that he was slow to recognize certain routes like those with a double move,  but he was out there again and against Green of all people.  The zones were a joke against Murray,   he ran around and his receivers settled into the holes,  or he simply threw it to a hole and the receivers chased it down,   time and time again.  What happened to zimmers love for man CBs?  Get somebody that is big enough to body up early and then shadow,  zone d doesn't work for shit against a QB that kind make plays last as long as Murray can with his legs....as we witnessed once again.  Bad scheme and bad execution.   Thats on Zim IMO,   his D,  his players.

@"Wetlander" said:

@"JimmyinSD" said:

@"MaroonBells" said: Meh...i don't blame Zim or the defense much for this one. I did last week. Last week we came to Ohio unprepared. You can blame the individual players for that if you want, but that it happened on so many levels leads me to believe it was a team-wide lack of focus. That's on the HC. 

This game? We did enough defensively to win against a team everyone said would destroy us. Picked him off twice, sacked him three times. Most of the shit Murray does is just indefensible. I don't care if you're the '85 Bears. 

It was feast or famine on D yesterday, Murray is a sophomore QB who had never faced Zimmer,  thats the kind of shit Zimmer used to exploit,   now its his D that is getting exposed by unseasoned QBs.

It was apparent last week that Breeland won't hold up against bigger receivers and that he was slow to recognize certain routes like those with a double move,  but he was out there again and against Green of all people.  The zones were a joke against Murray,   he ran around and his receivers settled into the holes,  or he simply threw it to a hole and the receivers chased it down,   time and time again.  What happened to zimmers love for man CBs?  Get somebody that is big enough to body up early and then shadow,  zone d doesn't work for shit against a QB that kind make plays last as long as Murray can with his legs....as we witnessed once again.  Bad scheme and bad execution.   Thats on Zim IMO,   his D,  his players.

Murray is actually in his THIRD year as a starter...  and you can poo poo Murray's experience, but he's playing some electric football to start the season.  I'd be surprised if anyone completely shuts him down this season unless there are a rash of injuries to their skill players.

I'm fine if people want to rip Zimmer, but let's at least be reasonable...  and to those ripping his ability to develop CBs... he's been called the CB not just because of Deion.  He resurrected Pacman Jones, Terence Newman, etc and had them playing their best football under his guidance.  He turned Rhodes from a handsy lanky CB into a All-Pro CB for a few years until injuries impacted his last two years with us.  He's been good in Indy, but not as great as he was here.  Say what you want about Waynes and Mac, but they played their best football here too.

This place has gotten toxic lately.  I'm not happy with an 0-2 start either, but it's extreme burn the shit down talk...  Skip Bayless would be embarrassed to read some of this stuff.  LOL

@"JimmyinSD" said:

@"Wetlander" said:

@"JimmyinSD" said:

@"MaroonBells" said: Meh...i don't blame Zim or the defense much for this one. I did last week. Last week we came to Ohio unprepared. You can blame the individual players for that if you want, but that it happened on so many levels leads me to believe it was a team-wide lack of focus. That's on the HC. 

This game? We did enough defensively to win against a team everyone said would destroy us. Picked him off twice, sacked him three times. Most of the shit Murray does is just indefensible. I don't care if you're the '85 Bears. 

It was feast or famine on D yesterday, Murray is a sophomore QB who had never faced Zimmer,  thats the kind of shit Zimmer used to exploit,   now its his D that is getting exposed by unseasoned QBs.

It was apparent last week that Breeland won't hold up against bigger receivers and that he was slow to recognize certain routes like those with a double move,  but he was out there again and against Green of all people.  The zones were a joke against Murray,   he ran around and his receivers settled into the holes,  or he simply threw it to a hole and the receivers chased it down,   time and time again.  What happened to zimmers love for man CBs?  Get somebody that is big enough to body up early and then shadow,  zone d doesn't work for shit against a QB that kind make plays last as long as Murray can with his legs....as we witnessed once again.  Bad scheme and bad execution.   Thats on Zim IMO,   his D,  his players.

Murray is actually in his THIRD year as a starter...  and you can poo poo Murray's experience, but he's playing some electric football to start the season.  I'd be surprised if anyone completely shuts him down this season unless there are a rash of injuries to their skill players.

I'm fine if people want to rip Zimmer, but let's at least be reasonable...  and to those ripping his ability to develop CBs... he's been called the CB not just because of Deion.  He resurrected Pacman Jones, Terence Newman, etc and had them playing their best football under his guidance.  He turned Rhodes from a handsy lanky CB into a All-Pro CB for a few years until injuries impacted his last two years with us.  He's been good in Indy, but not as great as he was here.  Say what you want about Waynes and Mac, but they played their best football here too.

This place has gotten toxic lately.  I'm not happy with an 0-2 start either, but it's extreme burn the shit down talk...  Skip Bayless would be embarrassed to read some of this stuff.  LOL

Waynes played his only football here... IIRC he hasnt taken a real snap since he left,  but honestly does taking high draft picks and having them pan out really show the genius of a coach?  I would expect a coach that is touted as  DB specialist to be turning more later round or undrafted guys into something instead of burning a lot of high round picks on the position.

as far as burning shit down.. the odds of this team making the playoffs from an 0-2 start are under 15% historically.   a horse shit preseason campaign,  2 gut wrenching losses to start the season and what was a roster built for a championship is suddenly one that could start to get disassembled before the trade deadline and having ownership looking for a new GM or at least new coaches.  I dont see any excuses made for Zimmer if he fails to make the playoffs again and the odds are heavily stacked against him with the start weve had and the schedule hes facing.

When Zimmer has had willing students the results have been great (Newman, Rhodes, Waynes, Hunter, Kendricks, etc).  Some guys like Captain Munnerlyn and Mac Alexander took some time to buy in, but ended up being really good players when they figured out listening to Zimmer would be good for them.  I think Breeland might be trying to do too much or hasn't bought in to what Zimmer has been preaching...  he needs to get tight with Patrick Peterson who seems like he's all-in on this team.

@"Wetlander" said:

@"JimmyinSD" said:

@"Wetlander" said:

@"JimmyinSD" said:

@"MaroonBells" said: Meh...i don't blame Zim or the defense much for this one. I did last week. Last week we came to Ohio unprepared. You can blame the individual players for that if you want, but that it happened on so many levels leads me to believe it was a team-wide lack of focus. That's on the HC. 

This game? We did enough defensively to win against a team everyone said would destroy us. Picked him off twice, sacked him three times. Most of the shit Murray does is just indefensible. I don't care if you're the '85 Bears. 

It was feast or famine on D yesterday, Murray is a sophomore QB who had never faced Zimmer,  thats the kind of shit Zimmer used to exploit,   now its his D that is getting exposed by unseasoned QBs.

It was apparent last week that Breeland won't hold up against bigger receivers and that he was slow to recognize certain routes like those with a double move,  but he was out there again and against Green of all people.  The zones were a joke against Murray,   he ran around and his receivers settled into the holes,  or he simply threw it to a hole and the receivers chased it down,   time and time again.  What happened to zimmers love for man CBs?  Get somebody that is big enough to body up early and then shadow,  zone d doesn't work for shit against a QB that kind make plays last as long as Murray can with his legs....as we witnessed once again.  Bad scheme and bad execution.   Thats on Zim IMO,   his D,  his players.

Murray is actually in his THIRD year as a starter...  and you can poo poo Murray's experience, but he's playing some electric football to start the season.  I'd be surprised if anyone completely shuts him down this season unless there are a rash of injuries to their skill players.

I'm fine if people want to rip Zimmer, but let's at least be reasonable...  and to those ripping his ability to develop CBs... he's been called the CB not just because of Deion.  He resurrected Pacman Jones, Terence Newman, etc and had them playing their best football under his guidance.  He turned Rhodes from a handsy lanky CB into a All-Pro CB for a few years until injuries impacted his last two years with us.  He's been good in Indy, but not as great as he was here.  Say what you want about Waynes and Mac, but they played their best football here too.

This place has gotten toxic lately.  I'm not happy with an 0-2 start either, but it's extreme burn the shit down talk...  Skip Bayless would be embarrassed to read some of this stuff.  LOL

Waynes played his only football here... IIRC he hasnt taken a real snap since he left,  but honestly does taking high draft picks and having them pan out really show the genius of a coach?  I would expect a coach that is touted as  DB specialist to be turning more later round or undrafted guys into something instead of burning a lot of high round picks on the position.

as far as burning shit down.. the odds of this team making the playoffs from an 0-2 start are under 15% historically.   a horse shit preseason campaign,  2 gut wrenching losses to start the season and what was a roster built for a championship is suddenly one that could start to get disassembled before the trade deadline and having ownership looking for a new GM or at least new coaches.  I dont see any excuses made for Zimmer if he fails to make the playoffs again and the odds are heavily stacked against him with the start weve had and the schedule hes facing.

There is a 17th game now and an extra playoff team.  An 0-2 start sucks, but it's not the death knell it was in past years especially when one of our losses was non-conference.

If you want undrafted or late round guys, what about Harrison Hand?  He played well as a rookie?  Cam Dantzler was good last year as a 3rd round pick.  I don't think Zimmer is the one lobbying for early round CBs as it is Spielman looking at his hand-picked coach and realizing picking defensive players will be a good investment if they are BPA.  The problem isn't Zimmer on the latest first round busts...  unless you think he's responsible for Mike Hughes' neck injuries and Jeff Gladney's attitude towards women...

Those percentages are misleading. Typically, 0-2 teams are bad teams. In other words, they have no expectation of making the playoffs and they probably lost those games by significant margins. Obviously, the vast majority are not going to make the playoffs. 

Vikings lost both games on the final play. Point differential a total of 4 points. in the last 21 years, of the teams who lost their first two games by a total of 4 points (a total of 4 teams), half made the playoffs.  

I've seen a few writers talk about how our offensive play-calling lost its teeth at halftime, and that sure resonates with me and how I see Zimmer handling offense:

If we lead early, he'll slow us down until we're trailing.

If we trail early, he'll initially stick with grinding offense to try and get the clock, if not the points.

If we're in a shootout, he'll let the offense have 2-3 aggressive drives before he reverts to type.

If we get blown out early, he'll let the offense do its thing...and scapegoat them despite the D being ineffective.

I think we have a legitimate 40+ ppg offense that's constantly having its leash yanked by the HC.

@"Zanary" said: I've seen a few writers talk about how our offensive play-calling lost its teeth at halftime, and that sure resonates with me and how I see Zimmer handling offense:

If we lead early, he'll slow us down until we're trailing.

If we trail early, he'll initially stick with grinding offense to try and get the clock, if not the points.

If we're in a shootout, he'll let the offense have 2-3 aggressive drives before he reverts to type.

If we get blown out early, he'll let the offense do its thing...and scapegoat them despite the D being ineffective.

I think we have a legitimate 40+ ppg offense that's constantly having its leash yanked by the HC.

thats certainly a possibility,  is there a reason why he wants to muzzle Cousins/offensive output,  or does he just honestly believe that taking the air out of the ball and  grinding out the clock is still the best approach to winning football games?

@"JimmyinSD" said:

@"Zanary" said: I've seen a few writers talk about how our offensive play-calling lost its teeth at halftime, and that sure resonates with me and how I see Zimmer handling offense:

If we lead early, he'll slow us down until we're trailing.

If we trail early, he'll initially stick with grinding offense to try and get the clock, if not the points.

If we're in a shootout, he'll let the offense have 2-3 aggressive drives before he reverts to type.

If we get blown out early, he'll let the offense do its thing...and scapegoat them despite the D being ineffective.

I think we have a legitimate 40+ ppg offense that's constantly having its leash yanked by the HC.

thats certainly a possibility,  is there a reason why he wants to muzzle Cousins/offensive output,  or does he just honestly believe that taking the air out of the ball and  grinding out the clock is still the best approach to winning football games?

Heard a talking head talking about the Raiders QB Carr & how he’s playing much more aggressively now, he said & I agree: in today’s NFL you must be aggressive in order to get where you want to go! ( it doesn’t hurt to have a kicker who has made 26 consecutive field goals either) 

@"Kentis" said: Heard a talking head talking about the Raiders QB Carr & how he’s playing much more aggressively now, he said & I agree: in today’s NFL you must be aggressive in order to get where you want to go! ( it doesn’t hurt to have a kicker who has made 26 consecutive field goals either) 

oops sorry,  wrong thread?  or maybe not..... thanks for the kicker reminder. :p

@"Zanary" said: I've seen a few writers talk about how our offensive play-calling lost its teeth at halftime, and that sure resonates with me and how I see Zimmer handling offense:

If we lead early, he'll slow us down until we're trailing.

If we trail early, he'll initially stick with grinding offense to try and get the clock, if not the points.

If we're in a shootout, he'll let the offense have 2-3 aggressive drives before he reverts to type.

If we get blown out early, he'll let the offense do its thing...and scapegoat them despite the D being ineffective.

I think we have a legitimate 40+ ppg offense that's constantly having its leash yanked by the HC.

LOL.  Pretty sure the offense was clicking in the first half because we were pounding the rock.  

Cant even be mad about the kicker jab, we deserve that