Rick's seat hotter than Zim's ...

Wha? No. Rhodes was an all pro, Waynes got a $40M contract, Hughes had a career-threatening neck injury, Gladney was arrested. None of this is performance based. 

Patterson was a 4-time, 1st team All Pro who holds three NFL records and 12 franchise records. Wasn't what we wanted him to be, but hardly a bust. You don't even mention the ACTUAL bust in Laquon Treadwell. Bradbury is not looking good right now. We'll have to see how that one turns out. 

And the draft is more than 1 round. Vikings haven't done particularly well in the 1st round lately. I'd say slightly below average on the whole? But their 2nd and 3rd rounds are well above average. Vikings typically finish in the top 6 to 8 among independent draft evaluators. 

But I'd agree with one thing: if this "dream team" finishes below .500, then everyone's on the hot seat. 

Here is a link to all his picks from 2012 - 2020
https://vikingsterritory.com/2021/general-news/every-vikings-draft-pick-under-rick-spielman-by-round
My thoughts summed up:

• 1st round hasn't been bad, but man we got hit by injuries.  Hughes, Teddy, Sharrif, all had the course of their careers changed. The only real bust to me is Treadwell, that is a straight miss.  You could argue Kalil, but he had a lot of people fooled.  I agree with @MaroonBells about Patterson's performance, but it is hard to imagine picking a pure special teams guy in the 1st.  Especially in a trade up scenario. 
• 2nd round has been very solid.  O'Neill, Cook, Kendricks are all very solid.  Jury is still out on Cleveland and ISJ.  Both look promising though.
  
• 3rd round can be summed up in one word.  Oof.  Obviously, we have that one guy who turned out pretty good, Hunter, but the rest is very debatable.  Elflein, Crichton, Josh Robinson... Mattison has been alright, but did we need him there?  I really hope Dantzler turns it back around or he goes on the list. 
  
• 4th round Oof 2.  Gerald Hodges and Jarius Wright probably get the highest marks out of this group.  Although Wonnum, Lnych, and Dye can hopefully keep improving.  Samia, Willie Beavers, T.J. Clemmings, enough said.
• 5th round is highlighted by Diggs, and has hopefuls in Osborn, Hand, and Conklin.  This round gave us the likes of Daniel Carlson, Isidora, Yankey, Rodney Adams...
• 6th Round has a few a lot of picks, with little outcome.  Its the 6th, this is to be expected, but why bother stock piling these picks then?  Watts and Udoh look like gems here.  Bucky Hodes, Moritz Boehringer, Tyrus Thompson, all not so much.  You could argue Exum had a career, same with David Morgan.  Blair Walsh was also decent until....
• 7th Round, Oof Hard With a Vengeance.  25 picks here.  Kris Boyd and Bisi Johnson are highlights.  Hinton potentially if he ever plays.  Austin Cutting was taken here as well.  Odenigbo, Weatherly, Kearse, and Stephens were taken in this round, too.  We have got lucky with a few serviceable guys is about all I can. 
  

@"El_Padre" said:

Here is a link to all his picks from 2012 - 2020 https://vikingsterritory.com/2021/general-news/every-vikings-draft-pick-under-rick-spielman-by-round My thoughts summed up:

• 1st round hasn't been bad, but man we got hit by injuries.  Hughes, Teddy, Sharrif, all had the course of their careers changed. The only real bust to me is Treadwell, that is a straight miss.  You could argue Kalil, but he had a lot of people fooled.  I agree with @MaroonBells about Patterson's performance, but it is hard to imagine picking a pure special teams guy in the 1st.  Especially in a trade up scenario. 
• 2nd round has been very solid.  O'Neill, Cook, Kendricks are all very solid.  Jury is still out on Cleveland and ISJ.  Both look promising though.
• 3rd round can be summed up in one word.  Oof.  Obviously, we have that one guy who turned out pretty good, Hunter, but the rest is very debatable.  Elflein, Crichton, Josh Robinson... Mattison has been alright, but did we need him there?  I really hope Dantzler turns it back around or he goes on the list. 
• 4th round Oof 2.  Gerald Hodges and Jarius Wright probably get the highest marks out of this group.  Although Wonnum, Lnych, and Dye can hopefully keep improving.  Samia, Willie Beavers, T.J. Clemmings, enough said.
• 5th round is highlighted by Diggs, and has hopefuls in Osborn, Hand, and Conklin.  This round gave us the likes of Daniel Carlson, Isidora, Yankey, Rodney Adams...
• 6th Round has a few a lot of picks, with little outcome.  Its the 6th, this is to be expected, but why bother stock piling these picks then?  Watts and Udoh look like gems here.  Bucky Hodes, Moritz Boehringer, Tyrus Thompson, all not so much.  You could argue Exum had a career, same with David Morgan.  Blair Walsh was also decent until....
• 7th Round, Oof Hard With a Vengeance.  25 picks here.  Kris Boyd and Bisi Johnson are highlights.  Hinton potentially if he ever plays.  Austin Cutting was taken here as well.  Odenigbo, Weatherly, Kearse, and Stephens were taken in this round, too.  We have got lucky with a few serviceable guys is about all I can. 

I don't have anything against Rick, but man if you take away the Diggs and Hunter picks, he really doesn't look all that great.  I base that on everyone should hit on the 1st and 2nd round. 

@"MaroonBells" said:

@"El_Padre" said:

Here is a link to all his picks from 2012 - 2020 https://vikingsterritory.com/2021/general-news/every-vikings-draft-pick-under-rick-spielman-by-round My thoughts summed up:

• 1st round hasn't been bad, but man we got hit by injuries.  Hughes, Teddy, Sharrif, all had the course of their careers changed. The only real bust to me is Treadwell, that is a straight miss.  You could argue Kalil, but he had a lot of people fooled.  I agree with @MaroonBells about Patterson's performance, but it is hard to imagine picking a pure special teams guy in the 1st.  Especially in a trade up scenario. 
• 2nd round has been very solid.  O'Neill, Cook, Kendricks are all very solid.  Jury is still out on Cleveland and ISJ.  Both look promising though.
• 3rd round can be summed up in one word.  Oof.  Obviously, we have that one guy who turned out pretty good, Hunter, but the rest is very debatable.  Elflein, Crichton, Josh Robinson... Mattison has been alright, but did we need him there?  I really hope Dantzler turns it back around or he goes on the list. 
• 4th round Oof 2.  Gerald Hodges and Jarius Wright probably get the highest marks out of this group.  Although Wonnum, Lnych, and Dye can hopefully keep improving.  Samia, Willie Beavers, T.J. Clemmings, enough said.
• 5th round is highlighted by Diggs, and has hopefuls in Osborn, Hand, and Conklin.  This round gave us the likes of Daniel Carlson, Isidora, Yankey, Rodney Adams...
• 6th Round has a few a lot of picks, with little outcome.  Its the 6th, this is to be expected, but why bother stock piling these picks then?  Watts and Udoh look like gems here.  Bucky Hodes, Moritz Boehringer, Tyrus Thompson, all not so much.  You could argue Exum had a career, same with David Morgan.  Blair Walsh was also decent until....
• 7th Round, Oof Hard With a Vengeance.  25 picks here.  Kris Boyd and Bisi Johnson are highlights.  Hinton potentially if he ever plays.  Austin Cutting was taken here as well.  Odenigbo, Weatherly, Kearse, and Stephens were taken in this round, too.  We have got lucky with a few serviceable guys is about all I can. 

I don't have anything against Rick, but man if you take away the Diggs and Hunter picks, he really doesn't look all that great.  I base that on everyone should hit on the 1st and 2nd round. 

Now look up every other team and compare them. 

@"MaroonBells" said:

@"El_Padre" said:

Here is a link to all his picks from 2012 - 2020 https://vikingsterritory.com/2021/general-news/every-vikings-draft-pick-under-rick-spielman-by-round My thoughts summed up:

• 1st round hasn't been bad, but man we got hit by injuries.  Hughes, Teddy, Sharrif, all had the course of their careers changed. The only real bust to me is Treadwell, that is a straight miss.  You could argue Kalil, but he had a lot of people fooled.  I agree with @MaroonBells about Patterson's performance, but it is hard to imagine picking a pure special teams guy in the 1st.  Especially in a trade up scenario. 
• 2nd round has been very solid.  O'Neill, Cook, Kendricks are all very solid.  Jury is still out on Cleveland and ISJ.  Both look promising though.
• 3rd round can be summed up in one word.  Oof.  Obviously, we have that one guy who turned out pretty good, Hunter, but the rest is very debatable.  Elflein, Crichton, Josh Robinson... Mattison has been alright, but did we need him there?  I really hope Dantzler turns it back around or he goes on the list. 
• 4th round Oof 2.  Gerald Hodges and Jarius Wright probably get the highest marks out of this group.  Although Wonnum, Lnych, and Dye can hopefully keep improving.  Samia, Willie Beavers, T.J. Clemmings, enough said.
• 5th round is highlighted by Diggs, and has hopefuls in Osborn, Hand, and Conklin.  This round gave us the likes of Daniel Carlson, Isidora, Yankey, Rodney Adams...
• 6th Round has a few a lot of picks, with little outcome.  Its the 6th, this is to be expected, but why bother stock piling these picks then?  Watts and Udoh look like gems here.  Bucky Hodes, Moritz Boehringer, Tyrus Thompson, all not so much.  You could argue Exum had a career, same with David Morgan.  Blair Walsh was also decent until....
• 7th Round, Oof Hard With a Vengeance.  25 picks here.  Kris Boyd and Bisi Johnson are highlights.  Hinton potentially if he ever plays.  Austin Cutting was taken here as well.  Odenigbo, Weatherly, Kearse, and Stephens were taken in this round, too.  We have got lucky with a few serviceable guys is about all I can. 

I don't have anything against Rick, but man if you take away the Diggs and Hunter picks, he really doesn't look all that great.  I base that on everyone should hit on the 1st and 2nd round. 

Now look up every other team and compare them. 

The thing that is overlooked when people grade Spielman...  his draft record is very good in terms of finding talent and maximizing value by moving up and down to target players. I'll also say that his drafting has been much better since Zimmer was hired than it was under Frazier and Childress...  I don't think that is a coincidence since Zimmer has an eye for talent and he and Rick retooled their scouting department when he became HC. Howevaaaaaa...

His job isn't just the draft.  It's also constructing a roster through FA, UDFAs, etc.  If you look at the Vikings weak points since Zimmer was hired, have those been addressed?  We still don't have what I would call a franchise QB.  Teddy might have been the closest thing before his leg fell apart...  Cousins didn't elevate a contender in 2018 or 2019.  In fact, we regressed since 2017 with him as a QB...  what about the OL?  It's been a perennial problem...  

If you're grading Rick on just his draft abilities, he's probably a top 5 GM in the NFL.  If you look at his entire body of work constructing a roster and having the most input on the final 53...  He drops a fair bit IMO.

Rick Speilman is the greatest GM ever and don't you forget it! Should be on our way to a birth in the NFC championship around 2026 if we remain on schedule. Stay the course. Thousand points of light...stay the course.. Blah blah

Pro Bowl Appearances,
By Players Drafted Since 2012,
Count By Drafting Team:

KC: 27
BAL: 26
MIN: 25
DAL: 21
SEA: 20
CAR: 17
GB: 17
NO: 17
PIT: 16
HOU: 15
IND: 15
LAR: 15
LV: 15
MIA: 15
LAC: 14
PHI: 14
CHI: 13
DET: 12
ATL: 11
WAS: 11
ARI: 10
BUF: 9
CLE: 9
JAX: 9
TB: 9

— Dustin Baker (@DustBaker) September 17, 2021

Pro Bowl is cute but I want a Super Bowl damn it!

@"Vikergirl" said: Pro Bowl is cute but I want a Super Bowl damn it!

@"comet52" said:

@"Vikergirl" said: Pro Bowl is cute but I want a Super Bowl damn it!

Someone forgot to post the rest of the list... New England with 7.   They're SB winners but they lose in the Beauty Contest Department.   Which Maroonbells thinks is what matters apparently.

@"minny65" said:

@"comet52" said:

@"Vikergirl" said: Pro Bowl is cute but I want a Super Bowl damn it!

Someone forgot to post the rest of the list... New England with 7.   They're SB winners but they lose in the Beauty Contest Department.   Which Maroonbells thinks is what matters apparently.

I do think the Zimmer era has run it course but I am not going to get my pitchfork out and throw the baby out with the bathwater.....yet :)

@"minny65" said:

@"comet52" said:

@"Vikergirl" said: Pro Bowl is cute but I want a Super Bowl damn it!

Someone forgot to post the rest of the list... New England with 7.   They're SB winners but they lose in the Beauty Contest Department.   Which Maroonbells thinks is what matters apparently.

Geez, let's not pile on.  Obviously the Pats had the GOAT.

Rick Speilman is a Top 10 GM easily, I think higher.  It is up to the HC and his staff to develop the talent and motivate the team and hire assistant coaches etc.

I do think the Zimmer era has run it course but I am not going to get my pitchfork out and throw the baby out with the bathwater.....yet :)

@"purplefaithful" said:

@"minny65" said:

@"comet52" said:

@"Vikergirl" said: Pro Bowl is cute but I want a Super Bowl damn it!

Someone forgot to post the rest of the list... New England with 7.   They're SB winners but they lose in the Beauty Contest Department.   Which Maroonbells thinks is what matters apparently.

Geez, let's not pile on.  Obviously the Pats had the GOAT.

Rick Speilman is a Top 10 GM easily, I think higher.  It is up to the HC and his staff to develop the talent and motivate the team and hire assistant coaches etc.

I do think the Zimmer era has run it course but I am not going to get my pitchfork out and throw the baby out with the bathwater.....yet :)

but what about Vikings nation as a whole???

Dont underestimate the carry-over and bad taste in fans mouths from the last few years. 

0/2 will send many fans into extreme shades of mad...

What is interesting about the Pro Bowl stat is that of the 25 appearances, 16 belong to 4 players.  Rhodes, Griff, Barr, and Harry. 

Anthony Barr making the Pro Bowl is a joke, dude spent his career being nearly invisible when he actually plays.

Since 2016, in the last 5 seasons combined these are Barr's totals:

7.5 sacks
1 INT
3 forced fumbles
3 fumble recoveries 
16 passes defensed

How does this guy make the Pro Bowl, he has almost no impact.  Nick Vigil just logged half of Barr's season sack average last week with 1 

@"SFVikeFan" said: Anthony Barr making the Pro Bowl is a joke, dude spent his career being nearly invisible when he actually plays.

Since 2016, in the last 5 seasons combined these are Barr's totals:

7.5 sacks
1 INT
3 forced fumbles
3 fumble recoveries 
16 passes defensed

How does this guy make the Pro Bowl, he has almost no impact.  Nick Vigil just logged half of Barr's season sack average last week with 1 

During the Zimmer era the Vikings lead the NFL in 3rd down defense. And no one is really all that close. Anthony Barr is a big part of that. He calls the defense in the huddle, he sets the front. He makes Eric Kendricks a much better player. In short, he allows Mike Zimmer to run his defense the way it's meant to be run...and it's not the same without him. 

Barr was not the player they should have taken at that spot, that year....

I know, I know - history is 20/20 clarity. 

We all know who should have donned the purple all these years in place of Barr. 

Maroon we can agree to disagree.

I mean if Barr is so good in coverage he averages all of a whopping 4 passes defensed a season (one forced incompletion every 4 games), and gets an INT once every 4 years.

Since 2016 Kendricks has

40 passes defensed (Barr 16)
7 INTs (Barr 1)

Sorry, not only do my eyes not see this superior pass coverage by Barr, but the stats reflect a total lack of any kind of plays, not just sacks.  He's a top 10 pick with the size and speed you want getting paid top 10 salary, but we get about between one and zero splash plays a year?  

You know and I know those are purple shaded excuses ....

I understand he has some mystical role in Zimmer's defense that sounds nice, but at some point with his toolbox he should be making more plays.  7 years later it's still not happened. 

Chris Claiborne 2.0, need to move on in 2022