Amazing defensive stat
Vikings defenses under Zimmer have always been good on 3rd down. Led the league in both 2017 and 2018. In fact, I think I remember their 3rd down defense one of those years was among the best in NFL history. What's amazing to me is that, despite losing half its starters and finishing among the worst defenses in the league in 2020, this defense STILL ranked in the top 10 on 3rd down. That's just shocking to me. That ain't secondary play. That ain't pass rush (what pass rush?). That's Mike Zimmer.
I give him shit when I think he deserves it, but Zim is a great defensive mind we would truly miss if we were ever foolish enough to fire him.
“A gentleman is someone who can play the accordion, but doesn't." - Tom Waits
Defense is Zimmer's calling card no doubt...I root for the guy. He's old school.
They brought him in here with Rogers in the Division, Stafford too.
Vikings have had some good D's since then. But it's a what have you done for me lately league (and world) - and he hasn't had any more luck in CG's than all his predecessors since Grant.
I wont bring up his record vs Nagy and LaFleur again.
Mike is on the hot seat, win now. Or he's on his last contract with this team. Heck, with his age, it might be his last either way.
Pete Carroll will be 70 in September. Bruce Arians is 68. And Zimmer just turned 65. So Z could coach another 3-5 years if he's successful, no problem. His contract takes him through the 2023 season. He's won a decent amount of games since 2014, I think he's top 7 or 8 for NFL head coaches in that time?
But if another two frustrating years or ends to seasons happen, he might just say fuck it and retire after this contract. It might be a mutually agreed upon thing between ownership and Zimmer.
I think if Spielman/Zimmer could have fielded a functional
OLine (aka not in the bottom 5) every year, the entire conversation would have
been a lot different. I think he’d have
been in the playoffs every year except his first and maybe last year. The conversation would be more along the
lines of the Dennis Green conversation of being in the playoffs every year, but
not getting to the big game.
I think what makes the most sense is to try and maximize the
offense, and field good enough players on defense and let Zimmer work his
magic. Obviously last year, we struggled
with the dead cap hits from players not on our team anymore, combined with
injuries and Covid our defense was just too depleted, but I think it’s a good
overall strategy and better than the having an amazing defense and letting the
offense struggle with lesser talented players and new coordinators every year.
@"medaille" said: I think if Spielman/Zimmer could have fielded a functional OLine (aka not in the bottom 5) every year, the entire conversation would have been a lot different. I think he’d have been in the playoffs every year except his first and maybe last year. The conversation would be more along the lines of the Dennis Green conversation of being in the playoffs every year, but not getting to the big game.I think what makes the most sense is to try and maximize the
offense, and field good enough players on defense and let Zimmer work his
magic. Obviously last year, we struggled
with the dead cap hits from players not on our team anymore, combined with
injuries and Covid our defense was just too depleted, but I think it’s a good
overall strategy and better than the having an amazing defense and letting the
offense struggle with lesser talented players and new coordinators every year.
Hopefully Rick learned his lesson and the recent attention to the O-line in the draft will pay off. We have a young, talented o-line made up of high draft picks.
I've always liked Zimmer. Does he have his flaws? Sure, but then who doesn't? Some folks tend to forget the onslaught of extenuating circumstances he's had to deal with since first arriving...and yet still manages to field competitive teams. The grass ain't always greener on the other side.
With that being said, all the ingredients are there for a big season, and as long as the team stays healthy I think we'll be going for a really fun ride.
@"PurpleCrush" said: I've always liked Zimmer. Does he have his flaws? Sure, but then who doesn't? Some folks tend to forget the onslaught of extenuating circumstances he's had to deal with since first arriving...and yet still manages to field competitive teams. The grass ain't always greener on the other side.With that being said, all the ingredients are there for a big season, and as long as the team stays healthy I think we'll be going for a really fun ride.
For this team to be special you need the D to gel with all the new players (which I think they will) and really you have to put the success or lack there of on offense on Kirk being last 10 games Kirk vs first 6 Kirk and Hill or Darrisaw being serviceable at LT. I guess you could sprinkle in some questions on Jefferson not having a sophomore slump maybe? Or the ever nervous kicking portion of our entertainment?
@"AGRforever" said:@"PurpleCrush" said: I've always liked Zimmer. Does he have his flaws? Sure, but then who doesn't? Some folks tend to forget the onslaught of extenuating circumstances he's had to deal with since first arriving...and yet still manages to field competitive teams. The grass ain't always greener on the other side.With that being said, all the ingredients are there for a big season, and as long as the team stays healthy I think we'll be going for a really fun ride.
For this team to be special you need the D to gel with all the new players (which I think they will) and really you have to put the success or lack there of on offense on Kirk being last 10 games Kirk vs first 6 Kirk and Hill or Darrisaw being serviceable at LT. I guess you could sprinkle in some questions on Jefferson not having a sophomore slump maybe? Or the ever nervous kicking portion of our entertainment?
I agree with that for the most part. I think the D will end up being fine, it's mostly vets and I do believe Zim will have them all on the same page sooner rather than later. My only worries on offense are the O-Line (until they prove otherwise) and the lack of a depth behind JJ & Thielen. Keeping fingers crossed neither gets hurt for an extended period of time.Oh yeah....kicker. I mean, there's really nothing to say about that except pray to the gods.
I read this this morning, and kept thinking, how did we compare on 1st, 2nd and chunk plays. I know, I really tried to not think about it, but….
@"BigAl99" said: I read this this morning, and kept thinking, how did we compare on 1st, 2nd and chunk plays. I know, I really tried to not think about it, but….See that's the problem. They had a hard time getting teams to third down last year. Couldn't stop the run and had very little pressure on passing plays. I think the defense will be much better this year on all downs.
@"BigAl99" said: I read this this morning, and kept thinking, how did we compare on 1st, 2nd and chunk plays. I know, I really tried to not think about it, but….Yep. So they don't track percentage of conversions on 1st and 2nd down, but the Vikings ranked 26th in the NFL on 1st downs given up per play and 27th on yards given up per play. Considering they ranked 9th on 3rd down, it doesn't take a math genius to determine they must've been just god-freaking-awful on 1st and 2nd down.
With a history of great defenses, last year was embarrassing. The 2021 version, with Hunter, Pierce, Tomlinson, Richardson, P2, Barr, etc., can't come soon enough.
@"purplefaithful" said: Defense is Zimmer's calling card no doubt...I root for the guy. He's old school.They brought him in here with Rogers in the Division, Stafford too.
Vikings have had some good D's since then. But it's a what have you done for me lately league (and world) - and he hasn't had any more luck in CG's than all his predecessors since Grant.
I wont bring up his record vs Nagy and LaFleur again.
Mike is on the hot seat, win now. Or he's on his last contract with this team. Heck, with his age, it might be his last either way.
Agree with your take.
I'll add that in many of the Big games our D doesn't look dominant despite season long stat trends.
I literally fell off the Zimmer life-long contract train when we were derailed in Philly. Total embarrassment.
Of course it is a team game - Off, Def, ST and Coaching. Boy was our D and Coaching destroyed in Philly.
Now it looks as though our Offense is at least up to par with what should be a very good bounce back Defense.
Hopefully ST's are brought up to overall average/Top 12-15.
So this might be the most balanced team we have had under Zimmer..at least hopefully.
But if this season is a dud with a first round playoff loss I am all for moving on from Zimmer.
Not Spelly. I think he is a TOP GM. I don't think they are tied together.
@"minny65" said:@"purplefaithful" said: Defense is Zimmer's calling card no doubt...I root for the guy. He's old school.They brought him in here with Rogers in the Division, Stafford too.
Vikings have had some good D's since then. But it's a what have you done for me lately league (and world) - and he hasn't had any more luck in CG's than all his predecessors since Grant.
I wont bring up his record vs Nagy and LaFleur again.
Mike is on the hot seat, win now. Or he's on his last contract with this team. Heck, with his age, it might be his last either way.
Agree with your take.I'll add that in many of the Big games our D doesn't look dominant despite season long stat trends.
I literally fell off the Zimmer life-long contract train when we were derailed in Philly. Total embarrassment.
Of course it is a team game - Off, Def, ST and Coaching. Boy was our D and Coaching destroyed in Philly.
Now it looks as though our Offense is at least up to par with what should be a very good bounce back Defense.
Hopefully ST's are brought up to overall average/Top 12-15.
So this might be the most balanced team we have had under Zimmer..at least hopefully.
But if this season is a dud with a first round playoff loss I am all for moving on from Zimmer.
Not Spelly. I think he is a TOP GM. I don't think they are tied together.
Agreed that Spelly and Zimmer are not tied together.I dont know if a first round loss is a bust of a season? But it would be too familiar of a refrain.
I really would love it for Mike, the fans, the players and the state if Zimmsu can bring home a championship.
He's sure had his share of snake-eyes and a Lombardi would cure that in a hurry.
I will be happy to make the playoffs after last year. But I see the potential, and have the desire for more. I think Zimmer is a pretty good coach. I like that he asked Rick for a bit beefier offensive linemen this year. I think he has his finger on the pulse of the team.
If it all goes South, he's probably done.
It's probably a bit unrealistic to think they have a chance to win it all, given the fact they never have.
But if they can show they are competitive with the top teams, for a change, that would be enough for me.
1. Minnesota Vikings (479)
2. Chicago Bears (486)
3. Baltimore Ravens (497)
t4. Pittsburgh Steelers (498)
t4. Los Angeles Chargers (498)
6. Dallas Cowboys (503)
7. Denver Broncos (508)
8. San Francisco 49ers (517)
@"BarrNone55" said:Fewest 15+ Yard Gains Allowed, On Defense, Last 5 Seasons:1. Minnesota Vikings (479)
2. Chicago Bears (486)
3. Baltimore Ravens (497)
t4. Pittsburgh Steelers (498)
t4. Los Angeles Chargers (498)
6. Dallas Cowboys (503)
7. Denver Broncos (508)
8. San Francisco 49ers (517)
Okay, much better, reading in the late afternoon drinking a beer. Like to read in the morning, so perhaps morning beer may help keep an even keel.
@"BigAl99" said:@"BarrNone55" said:Fewest 15+ Yard Gains Allowed, On Defense, Last 5 Seasons:1. Minnesota Vikings (479)
2. Chicago Bears (486)
3. Baltimore Ravens (497)
t4. Pittsburgh Steelers (498)
t4. Los Angeles Chargers (498)
6. Dallas Cowboys (503)
7. Denver Broncos (508)
8. San Francisco 49ers (517)
Ahh, morning beer time is soon coming. That's my NFL Sunday ritual: sometime between 11:00-11:30 am, a beer or Bloody is poured. The nervous energy is flowing for gameday. Love it.
@"MaroonBells" said:@"BigAl99" said: I read this this morning, and kept thinking, how did we compare on 1st, 2nd and chunk plays. I know, I really tried to not think about it, but…. Yep. So they don't track percentage of conversions on 1st and 2nd down, but the Vikings ranked 26th in the NFL on 1st downs given up per play and 27th on yards given up per play. Considering they ranked 9th on 3rd down, it doesn't take a math genius to determine they must've been just god-freaking-awful on 1st and 2nd down.With a history of great defenses, last year was embarrassing. The 2021 version, with Hunter, Pierce, Tomlinson, Richardson, P2, Barr, etc., can't come soon enough.
This!^^^ The Vikings now have 3 interior DL in PFF's top 32 list, and none of them played a single snap for us last year! That in itself should make for a ton more stops on first and second down, plus getting Hunter, Barr, and Kendricks back on the field.
Add to that, the rookies from last year in the backfield will have 2020 game experience to go along with a real off season program, and guys like PP and Breeland for mentoring.
@"Skoldid" said:@"MaroonBells" said:@"BigAl99" said: I read this this morning, and kept thinking, how did we compare on 1st, 2nd and chunk plays. I know, I really tried to not think about it, but…. Yep. So they don't track percentage of conversions on 1st and 2nd down, but the Vikings ranked 26th in the NFL on 1st downs given up per play and 27th on yards given up per play. Considering they ranked 9th on 3rd down, it doesn't take a math genius to determine they must've been just god-freaking-awful on 1st and 2nd down.With a history of great defenses, last year was embarrassing. The 2021 version, with Hunter, Pierce, Tomlinson, Richardson, P2, Barr, etc., can't come soon enough.
This!^^^ The Vikings now have 3 interior DL in PFF's top 32 list, and none of them played a single snap for us last year! That in itself should make for a ton more stops on first and second down, plus getting Hunter, Barr, and Kendricks back on the field.
Add to that, the rookies from last year in the backfield will have 2020 game experience to go along with a real off season program, and guys like PP and Breeland for mentoring.
I keep waiting for someone, anyone, in the national media to look at the roster we've put together and go "hey, I think we missed something here guys. Look at this roster the Vikings have put together." Not that it's important what the national media thinks, but it makes me re-think sometimes. What are we missing? Are we just being overly optimistic about the home team? I think the answer to that is a resounding no. By any objective analysis, the Vikings, one-game away from the playoffs last year, have added Hunter, Tomlinson, Richardson, Pierce, P2, Woods, Breeland, Mack, etc. This is a much, much better team that should win several more games. Hell, even Blair Walsh sees it.But all keep going back to the fact that the Vikings were 7-9, not realizing that we were 7-9 with most of our defense missing, not realizing that last year's Super Bowl winner was also coming off a 7-9 season.
@"minny65" said:@"purplefaithful" said: Defense is Zimmer's calling card no doubt...I root for the guy. He's old school.They brought him in here with Rogers in the Division, Stafford too.
Vikings have had some good D's since then. But it's a what have you done for me lately league (and world) - and he hasn't had any more luck in CG's than all his predecessors since Grant.
I wont bring up his record vs Nagy and LaFleur again.
Mike is on the hot seat, win now. Or he's on his last contract with this team. Heck, with his age, it might be his last either way.
Agree with your take.I'll add that in many of the Big games our D doesn't look dominant despite season long stat trends.
I literally fell off the Zimmer life-long contract train when we were derailed in Philly. Total embarrassment.
Of course it is a team game - Off, Def, ST and Coaching. Boy was our D and Coaching destroyed in Philly.
Now it looks as though our Offense is at least up to par with what should be a very good bounce back Defense.
Hopefully ST's are brought up to overall average/Top 12-15.
So this might be the most balanced team we have had under Zimmer..at least hopefully.
But if this season is a dud with a first round playoff loss I am all for moving on from Zimmer.
Not Spelly. I think he is a TOP GM. I don't think they are tied together.
If you remember, our D shut down philly on the first drive. It was another stupid turnover by the offense that got Philly back in the game and swung momentum. I think it was a pick 6 that tied the game at 7. Then our offense mounted another long drive and fumbled in the red zone. The offense folded after that, Philly's D and the crowd were going crazy.Then Philly got aggressive on O and pulled out some changes they had worked on in their bye week. Their offense with Foles was basically all short RPO stuff so based on that our D was playing tight coverage. But they took some shots and burned our DBs on double moves, something they hadn't done with Foles. Yeah it exposed our D, but not because the plan was bad, but because our D was trying to shut down their offense as our offense had already quit. I remember 2 double moves that broke the back. One was against Newman who was playing outside cuz someone else was hurt (I think)
Once the offense went flat and the Philly O got aggressive, the rout was on. The emotions of the previous week worked against us.
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