Sansavere sans a brain

@"MaroonBells" said: This could be the stupidest article I've ever read.  https://vikingsterritory.com/2021/general-news/sanseveresnanocolumnwrplease

The addition of veteran kick-ass cornerback Patrick Peterson should put Zimmer in a stand-down mode when it comes to selecting another CB high in the draft. If I’m Zimmer, I’d want a sure thing because I may not be around in 2022 if 2021 sucks. So I want a kid who comes in and immediately makes an impact that increases the probability of winning games and battens down my job security. Which is why, if I’m Zimmer, I take whichever of these three wide receivers still is available: LSU’s Ja’Marr Chase, Alabama’s DeVonta Smith or ‘Bama’s Jaylen Waddle. Each is a stud. Each could have the kind of impact Justin Jefferson did as a rookie. If the offensive line is a crap show once again, having another elite pass-catching option for Kirk Cousins isn’t a maybe. It’s a must.

Or hey, here's a crazy thought: maybe instead of a wide receiver to help alleviate your offensive line woes, maybe, I dunno, draft an offensive lineman...?
I guess Bob isn't aware there are "studs" who play positions other than the ones you see on Sportscenter--positions that might also "increase the probability of winning games." 

I found the stats a couple years ago and again last year on why a #3 receiver in a Kubiak style offense is a waste of effort,  apparently sans didnt read those posts.  IIRC the RB and TE account for the #3 and #4 in receptions in a GK offense and the WR3 is down there with the FB in terms of pass production.

He's right, if one  of the top 3Wrs, Pitts, or Parsons is there they should take them.  QBs will push talent down the board and a top player will have a huge impact on the 21 Vikings.  the difference between a 1st round OL and a 3rd will be marginable. 

That said, I put Sewel at the top of my board and is the only player I would trade up for in the top 10.

Before the Vikings drafted Moss, they had very little catches by 3rw Wr as well.  

It would be interesting to skip on OL/DL because we all pretty much agree thats where the immediate need is. 

Glad the draft is close so we can unwrap our new christmas toys. 

@"rf54" said: He's right, if one  of the top 3Wrs, Pitts, or Parsons is there they should take them.  QBs will push talent down the board and a top player will have a huge impact on the 21 Vikings.  the difference between a 1st round OL and a 3rd will be marginable. 

That said, I put Sewel at the top of my board and is the only player I would trade up for in the top 10.

Before the Vikings drafted Moss, they had very little catches by 3rw Wr as well.  

In fact, my biggest bust candidates in the top half of this year's draft are Jaylen Waddle and MIcah Parsons. Waddle is Ruggs. Here's what i said about Ruggs last year. Same applies to Waddle, except that Waddle is even smaller and less accomplished running routes. 

If you look through draft history, you'll see it's littered with 4.2 and 4.3 receivers who were taken in the 1st round...and were flat out busts. John Ross, Corey Coleman, Will Fuller, Kevin White, Breshad Perriman, Philip Dorsett, Tavon Austin, AJ Jenkins. DHB, Troy Williamson, Ashley Lelie, As I said before, if it were like a third or a half, that would be one thing, but damned if it isn't like 90%. Why? No clue. But every damn team who took the above players thought they were getting an All Pro. It's not like speed is a bad thing, but I do think it artificially inflates their value. 

Parsons is all athlete, no toughness or instincts. He also has maturity issues. Zaven Collins will be the best defensive player from this draft. 

@"MaroonBells" said:

@"rf54" said: He's right, if one  of the top 3Wrs, Pitts, or Parsons is there they should take them.  QBs will push talent down the board and a top player will have a huge impact on the 21 Vikings.  the difference between a 1st round OL and a 3rd will be marginable. 

That said, I put Sewel at the top of my board and is the only player I would trade up for in the top 10.

Before the Vikings drafted Moss, they had very little catches by 3rw Wr as well.  

It's amazing to me how people like you and Bob see ZERO bust factor in those three receivers in particular. I think what happens here is that so many of us overanalyze our top need candidates (Slater, Darrisaw, Paye, AVT, etc) that we become fully aware of their warts, while we pay no attention to the warts of the players we don't need. It's kinda ridiculous. Because there are warts aplenty. 

In fact, my biggest bust candidates in the top half of this year's draft are Jaylen Waddle and MIcah Parsons. Waddle is Ruggs. Here's what i said about Ruggs last year. Same applies to Waddle, except that Waddle is even smaller and less accomplished running routes. 

If you look through draft history, you'll see it's littered with 4.2 and 4.3 receivers who were taken in the 1st round...and were flat out busts. John Ross, Corey Coleman, Will Fuller, Kevin White, Breshad Perriman, Philip Dorsett, Tavon Austin, AJ Jenkins. DHB, Troy Williamson, Ashley Lelie, As I said before, if it were like a third or a half, that would be one thing, but damned if it isn't like 90%. Why? No clue. But every damn team who took the above players thought they were getting an All Pro. It's not like speed is a bad thing, but I do think it artificially inflates their value. 

Parsons is all athlete, no toughness or instincts. He also has maturity issues. Zaven Collins will be the best defensive player from this draft. 

I am, as I almost always am 100% in the BPA camp.  When a blue chip player is there , you need to take them, that is how you get a Randy Moss and Adrian Peterson.

@"MaroonBells" said: This could be the stupidest article I've ever read.  https://vikingsterritory.com/2021/general-news/sanseveresnanocolumnwrplease

The addition of veteran kick-ass cornerback Patrick Peterson should put Zimmer in a stand-down mode when it comes to selecting another CB high in the draft. If I’m Zimmer, I’d want a sure thing because I may not be around in 2022 if 2021 sucks. So I want a kid who comes in and immediately makes an impact that increases the probability of winning games and battens down my job security. Which is why, if I’m Zimmer, I take whichever of these three wide receivers still is available: LSU’s Ja’Marr Chase, Alabama’s DeVonta Smith or ‘Bama’s Jaylen Waddle. Each is a stud. Each could have the kind of impact Justin Jefferson did as a rookie. If the offensive line is a crap show once again, having another elite pass-catching option for Kirk Cousins isn’t a maybe. It’s a must.

Or hey, here's a crazy thought: maybe instead of a wide receiver to help alleviate your offensive line woes, maybe, I dunno, draft an offensive lineman...?
I guess Bob isn't aware there are "studs" who play positions other than the ones you see on Sportscenter--positions that might also "increase the probability of winning games." 

@"rf54" said:

@"MaroonBells" said:

@"rf54" said: He's right, if one  of the top 3Wrs, Pitts, or Parsons is there they should take them.  QBs will push talent down the board and a top player will have a huge impact on the 21 Vikings.  the difference between a 1st round OL and a 3rd will be marginable. 

That said, I put Sewel at the top of my board and is the only player I would trade up for in the top 10.

Before the Vikings drafted Moss, they had very little catches by 3rw Wr as well.  

It's amazing to me how people like you and Bob see ZERO bust factor in those three receivers in particular. I think what happens here is that so many of us overanalyze our top need candidates (Slater, Darrisaw, Paye, AVT, etc) that we become fully aware of their warts, while we pay no attention to the warts of the players we don't need. It's kinda ridiculous. Because there are warts aplenty. 

In fact, my biggest bust candidates in the top half of this year's draft are Jaylen Waddle and MIcah Parsons. Waddle is Ruggs. Here's what i said about Ruggs last year. Same applies to Waddle, except that Waddle is even smaller and less accomplished running routes. 

If you look through draft history, you'll see it's littered with 4.2 and 4.3 receivers who were taken in the 1st round...and were flat out busts. John Ross, Corey Coleman, Will Fuller, Kevin White, Breshad Perriman, Philip Dorsett, Tavon Austin, AJ Jenkins. DHB, Troy Williamson, Ashley Lelie, As I said before, if it were like a third or a half, that would be one thing, but damned if it isn't like 90%. Why? No clue. But every damn team who took the above players thought they were getting an All Pro. It's not like speed is a bad thing, but I do think it artificially inflates their value. 

Parsons is all athlete, no toughness or instincts. He also has maturity issues. Zaven Collins will be the best defensive player from this draft. 

It's amazing to me how people like you make assumptions without a single fact or engaging in any conversation.  There is no player in the draft that has a 0% chance of bust.  But I can lean heavily on the hundreds of paid football personnel and dozens of team scouts and people paid to do this for a living that form a consensus on these players.    I am also amazed that people forget when you draft for need you have a far greater chance of taking a BUST by reaching to fill a perceived hole in the roster. 

Of all the players you have listed, how many were doing it at the top level of the SEC which is widely considered best conference in CFB?  All three of Waddle , Smith and Chase have not only competed, but they were outclassing the competition while leading their teams to Championships!  These are not simply combine studs that ran well in their underware...

@"MaroonBells" said:

I think the biggest boom or bust is Trey Lance.  Hey looks like the real deal on tape,   but if you factor in that he's playing against guys who have about the same odds of going pro as any high school senior in the country in any given year....is he really that special or are we all just enamored by the local kid aspect?  He's a hell of an athlete but he is about as raw as any pro prospect could be in any year... and some say we should spend multiple firsts to move up for him....wow that scares me,  even as much as I want to get off the over paying for a QB carousel. 

@"rf54" said:

@"MaroonBells" said:

No, that whole drafting BPA over need thing is just a myth. Every team drafts for need. They draft the best players available AMONG their needs, without regard to DEGREE of need, but they draft for need. There are exceptions in certain areas of the draft. Top 10, for example. Also round five and beyond. But outside of that, teams are mostly filling needs. 

Now, it can be argued that WR is among our needs. And if there were no OLs or DEs worth taking at 14, I'd be all for taking a WR. Problem is, there are half dozen very good trench players with very good value there. That is not reaching for need, and we'd be fools for ignoring that. Especially considering the strength of this draft is middle round receivers. 

Did the Vikings need Moss in 98?  or AP in 07?  What DE need was there in 15 when they selected Hunter in the 3rd round?  After Slater, Sewel, and Darissaw there is a drop off in OL talent.   

Moss was great, not on the pedestal you are putting him Peyton Manning was taken #1 in that draft, so no Moss was not far and away above everybody as you think.
Taylor was a 1000 yard rusher that was in his prime, AP was far far far from a need
Lawerence is the best QB prospect to come out since Luck
AVT was not even a guard at USC so no he does not belong in the top 15.

You certainly have your opinion, I highly disagree with it.

@"MaroonBells" said: This could be the stupidest article I've ever read.  https://vikingsterritory.com/2021/general-news/sanseveresnanocolumnwrplease

Or hey, here's a crazy thought: maybe instead of a wide receiver to help alleviate your offensive line woes, maybe, I dunno, draft an offensive lineman...? I guess Bob isn't aware there are "studs" who play positions other than the ones you see on Sportscenter--positions that might also "increase the probability of winning games." 

@"rf54" said: AVT was not even a guard at USC so no he does not belong in the top 15.

I think we've all improved our headline writing ability thanks to BarrNone

@"MaroonBells" said:

@"rf54" said:

@"MaroonBells" said:

@"rf54" said: He's right, if one  of the top 3Wrs, Pitts, or Parsons is there they should take them.  QBs will push talent down the board and a top player will have a huge impact on the 21 Vikings.  the difference between a 1st round OL and a 3rd will be marginable. 

That said, I put Sewel at the top of my board and is the only player I would trade up for in the top 10.

Before the Vikings drafted Moss, they had very little catches by 3rw Wr as well.  

It's amazing to me how people like you and Bob see ZERO bust factor in those three receivers in particular. I think what happens here is that so many of us overanalyze our top need candidates (Slater, Darrisaw, Paye, AVT, etc) that we become fully aware of their warts, while we pay no attention to the warts of the players we don't need. It's kinda ridiculous. Because there are warts aplenty. 

In fact, my biggest bust candidates in the top half of this year's draft are Jaylen Waddle and MIcah Parsons. Waddle is Ruggs. Here's what i said about Ruggs last year. Same applies to Waddle, except that Waddle is even smaller and less accomplished running routes. 

If you look through draft history, you'll see it's littered with 4.2 and 4.3 receivers who were taken in the 1st round...and were flat out busts. John Ross, Corey Coleman, Will Fuller, Kevin White, Breshad Perriman, Philip Dorsett, Tavon Austin, AJ Jenkins. DHB, Troy Williamson, Ashley Lelie, As I said before, if it were like a third or a half, that would be one thing, but damned if it isn't like 90%. Why? No clue. But every damn team who took the above players thought they were getting an All Pro. It's not like speed is a bad thing, but I do think it artificially inflates their value. 

Parsons is all athlete, no toughness or instincts. He also has maturity issues. Zaven Collins will be the best defensive player from this draft. 

It's amazing to me how people like you make assumptions without a single fact or engaging in any conversation.  There is no player in the draft that has a 0% chance of bust.  But I can lean heavily on the hundreds of paid football personnel and dozens of team scouts and people paid to do this for a living that form a consensus on these players.    I am also amazed that people forget when you draft for need you have a far greater chance of taking a BUST by reaching to fill a perceived hole in the roster. 

Of all the players you have listed, how many were doing it at the top level of the SEC which is widely considered best conference in CFB?  All three of Waddle , Smith and Chase have not only competed, but they were outclassing the competition while leading their teams to Championships!  These are not simply combine studs that ran well in their underware...

No, that whole drafting BPA over need thing is just a myth. Every team drafts for need. They draft the best players available AMONG their needs, without regard to DEGREE of need, but they draft for need. There are exceptions in certain areas of the draft. Top 10, for example. Also round five and beyond. But outside of that, teams are mostly filling needs. 

Now, it can be argued that WR is among our needs. And if there were no OLs or DEs worth taking at 14, I'd be all for taking a WR. Problem is, there are half dozen very good trench players with very good value there. That is not reaching for need, and we'd be fools for ignoring that. Especially considering the strength of this draft is middle round receivers. 

@"StickyBun" said: I think we've all improved our headline writing ability thanks to BarrNone

I read an awful lot of right in this thread...

NEVER pass on a blue chipper and we need trenches more than another JJ. 

That said, I'd dance a jig over Waddle paired with Jet and AT -- but not at the cost of a really good potential LT or AVT. 

@"StickyBun" said: I think we've all improved our headline writing ability thanks to BarrNone

@"MaroonBells" said:

@"StickyBun" said: I think we've all improved our headline writing ability thanks to BarrNone

We aspire to, but nothing will ever beat "Eat Your Ham, Tina."

@"purplefaithful" said: I read an awful lot of right in this thread...

NEVER pass on a blue chipper and we need trenches more than another JJ. 

That said, I'd dance a jig over Waddle paired with Jet and AT -- but not at the cost of a really good potential LT or AVT.