Is this the year to move up for a QB?
With FA still in progress we have made some moves that would seem to indicate Tackle at 14. But let's project based on what we know right now. Our Interior DL looks set so Barmore is probably out at 14. Of course Hunter is back and let's say at around 100%. That is 3 new players along the interior and we have a couple of guys that we can try on the other DE side. But with Hunter on one side and 2 interior guys doesn't that make that other DE potentially better just by default (over last year) maybe Woonum/Weatherly?
The addition of Vigil will probably be a very poor mans fill in for Wilson who we can't afford and wasn't the best tackler anyway. But LB can be had later in the draft.
Secondary, obviously the addition of Peterson brings the experience at the very least. But he might have a rebound and if he does he is a lockdown corner. We do still have the offer of MAC coming back and I thought he was a damn good slot CB. If this happens I don't see a falling CB at 14 at all.
So it all comes down to the OL at 14. No Guard is 14 material. Tons of potential Tackles but let's say both Sewell and Slater are gone before 14, do we want to look at some guys that might be late first or early second rounders like Tucker, Cosmi, Jenkins? Most of the mocks I have done have Ben Cleveland (Georgia available at our 78 pick and many even at our 90th pick.
Back to QB with that backgrounder:
IDK but as I have been saying for months - Carpe Diem - when is the last time we drafted as high as 14? Waynes at 11, 6 years ago.
When is the last time their were potentially 6 first round QB's (1983 Marino class known as the QB class of all time) almost 40 years ago!!!
I keep eyeing up Zack Wilson (BYU) who many assume will go #2 to the Jets as of now. But things change bigtime between now and the draft. Their is a chance that he is available at 5 and Cinncy is not going to draft a QB. Do we bust a move? I would love that aggressiveness. I use the Fudge and the Chiefs as examples of drafting QB's when they didn't "really" need one per se. Rodgers fell into their laps but they had Brett friggin Favre. KC moved up bigtime to get Mahomes, gave up a ton, and they had been consistently playoff/division winners with Alex Smith (before his knee). Bold moves because it was Carpe Diem at the most important position in sports. Is it risky? Of course every draft pick is super risky but if you don't swing you won't hit the ball either.
Lastly, I don't think Spelly and Zimmer are tied at the hip like many think. I think Spelly can afford to think out of the box and also down the road. I can see Spelly being GM without Zimmer as coach. So if the above scenario presents itself what would you do? I make the move obviously. I guess ill throw a poll up.
@"MarkSP18" said:@"BarrNone55" said:Most Touchdown Passes in 2nd Half, Score Margin of Game within 10 Points, Since 2018:Patrick Mahomes (36)
Russell Wilson (36)
Kirk Cousins (33)
Deshaun Watson (30)
How many playoff appearances? Only 1 time for the dude that has collected 94M from the Vikings thus far.He is the greatest!
You do realize it's a team sport, right?
@"BarrNone55" said:@"MarkSP18" said:@"BarrNone55" said:Most Touchdown Passes in 2nd Half, Score Margin of Game within 10 Points, Since 2018:Patrick Mahomes (36)
Russell Wilson (36)
Kirk Cousins (33)
Deshaun Watson (30)
How many playoff appearances? Only 1 time for the dude that has collected 94M from the Vikings thus far.He is the greatest!
You do realize it's a team sport, right?
You can spin it any way you want dude. I ain't never gonna buy what you trying to sell.The 94M spent has not been worth the investment no matter whose fault it was.
If we get a shot at Ehlinger from the fourth on, would be very happy. Dude is a winner, or at least a training camp HOF candidate.
Ok. I understand there are fact resistance adults.
@"BarrNone55" said: Ok. I understand there are fact resistance adults.I confess to fact resistance but not to the adult part.
@"BarrNone55" said: Ok. I understand there are fact resistance adults.I don’t feel nearly as strongly about thus as @MarkSP18 (“Kork”? Cmon man the guy ain’t John David Booty... he’s pretty good), but in a roundabout way he does bring up basically worst case scenario for the Kirk supporters and the Kirk doubters.
If somehow the Vikings over the next month do put together a good offensive line, which is still very possible. The absolute worst thing that could happen next year would be Kirk getting hurt. Thankfully he’s been a monster in that regard so far and I hope it continues. But sink or swim, we really gotta see what he can do next season with a good OL. More than probably any other position on the team. I hope we aren’t robbed of that opportunity.
Context- shook Lakers fan sweating the AD injury
I love the feedback on this thread but are Kirk and moving up this draft mutually exclusive?? I think, and always have, that Kirk is good enough with all the pieces in place but I still go back to supply and demand at the most critical of positions. Just because we have Kirk under contract for the next 2 years (sunk cost) do we still ignore the most important position or do we roll the dice at 14 for the best LT? I would rather roll the dice at the QB position because this is a different situation that is presenting itself. Seriously would a HOF tackle at 14 win us a SB within Kirks contract? Would a HOF DE win us a SB within Kirks contract? I say go the other routes like FA and trades to find the right mix for the next 2 years but seize an opportunity when it' in front of you otherwise you are always in purgatory otherwise known as a tease (Ha).
Again, I am all over Wilson as our savior and as always the odds are stacked against. But my goodness when is the last time 6 QB's were 1st round eligible and we have pick 14? Our brass might not love Wilson like I do but maybe Fields drops. I just don't want to be stuck in the mud of Best remaining player that fits our needs when it comes down to QB. Let's all wait in 2 years After Kirk (AK) and hope their is a savior when we need it becuase that has worked so well.
This is our chance, I think?? We need to go from the mentality of Kirk could win us a SB if all is right in the world too we drafted Zack Fields Lance and we are in the dance every year.
@"BarrNone55" said: https://twitter.com/i/status/1372556357459705864Cousins can play extremely well. The Vikings can do SO much worse than him, but I would really love to see a guy drafted that could sit for two seasons
Just looked at the poll and saw 4 of 10 agree with taking the risk of moving up for a QB! More then I thought, actually. Either way our pick at 14 is a very interesting spot for us. I can see a move up as proposed but even more so a move down from 14 to pick up a second rounder. A lot of good Tackles available in the mid to late 20's or just BPA. Are we there yet!!!
@"MarkSP18" said:@"BarrNone55" said:Most Touchdown Passes in 2nd Half, Score Margin of Game within 10 Points, Since 2018:Patrick Mahomes (36)
Russell Wilson (36)
Kirk Cousins (33)
Deshaun Watson (30)
How many playoff appearances? Only 1 time for the dude that has collected 94M from the Vikings thus far.He is the greatest!
...and this would be an excellent point....if he were a tennis player.
@"MaroonBells" said:@"MarkSP18" said:@"BarrNone55" said:Most Touchdown Passes in 2nd Half, Score Margin of Game within 10 Points, Since 2018:Patrick Mahomes (36)
Russell Wilson (36)
Kirk Cousins (33)
Deshaun Watson (30)
How many playoff appearances? Only 1 time for the dude that has collected 94M from the Vikings thus far.He is the greatest!
...and this would be an excellent point....if he were a tennis player.
It's truly baffling the lack of understanding the basics.
What do the Anti-Kirk folks think of Dan Marino? Not trying to be a smart ass, genuinely curious
@"BarrNone55" said:@"MaroonBells" said:@"MarkSP18" said:@"BarrNone55" said:Most Touchdown Passes in 2nd Half, Score Margin of Game within 10 Points, Since 2018:Patrick Mahomes (36)
Russell Wilson (36)
Kirk Cousins (33)
Deshaun Watson (30)
How many playoff appearances? Only 1 time for the dude that has collected 94M from the Vikings thus far.He is the greatest!
...and this would be an excellent point....if he were a tennis player.
It's truly baffling the lack of understanding the basics.
We shall see how it ends up.I predict y'all will continue to have ...
99 excuses but the QB ain't 1
... if you need to win a game and need him to do it, you can forget about it.
When is the last time he made a play on his own?
They are so seldom who can remember unless they own his jersey.
It's kind of funny how the Kirk debate has become so divided... you either love him or hate him (which I don't think is a true representation of either side).
It's become pointless to be honest. In regards to the question posed in this thread, what's the problem? It looks to be a great year to draft a QB early and the Vikings are drafting 14... I think the media is over projecting how high some of these guys go. I think Fields or Lance could be there between 8-12... if one or two of these guys drop... does anyone think Kirk is good enough that we should completely ignore the QB position? I don't. Kirk will be our starter this year (and likely next season), but it's not a terrible idea to think about the future at the most important position in the NFL.
@"Wetlander" said: It's kind of funny how the Kirk debate has become so divided... you either love him or hate him (which I don't think is a true representation of either side).It's become pointless to be honest. In regards to the question posed in this thread, what's the problem? It looks to be a great year to draft a QB early and the Vikings are drafting 14... I think the media is over projecting how high some of these guys go. I think Fields or Lance could be there between 8-12... if one or two of these guys drop... does anyone think Kirk is good enough that we should completely ignore the QB position? I don't. Kirk will be our starter this year (and likely next season), but it's not a terrible idea to think about the future at the most important position in the NFL.
I wonder what this says about the QB ...
@"BarrNone55" said:Kirk Cousins in 2nd Half of Gms, Score Margin Within 10pts, Since 2015:651/983 = 66.2% Comp
7,920 Passing Yards
59 Passing TDs
27 INTs99.4 Passer Rating
6 Rushing TDs
8.1 Yards/Att
The stat that is glaring here and being glossed over is the 2-1 pick ratio and the 27 interceptions during crunch time! I would be more interested in the win/loss record of these games, because that is all that matters along with his record in big games overall, which we all know where that falls.
In addition, the 10 point margin stat is very misleading, because how many times have we been behind by 2 scores with less than 5 minutes and the opponent is playing prevent and Kirk turns into an all world QB for a meaningless end of the game score.
Kirk is a decent QB and capable of lighting it up, but you know what you are going to get, 9-7 at best or he could lead you to a 1-5 start like last year. The ceiling is not high, so if you are good with getting beat up by GB and Chicago, but turning it up against the Lions every year, then he is your guy.
Kirk lead us to a 1-5 start?
The D gave up 32 a game!
Lol.
@"BarrNone55" said: Kirk lead us to a 1-5 start?The D gave up 32 a game!
Lol.
Anyone who claims to know anything about football would have known that based on the roster the front office put together on the defensive side of the ball, they would struggle out the gate.
No corner with more than 5 starts. No Hunter. No Pierce.
Only the most myopic of fans would think the defense would be good at the start of the season.
The offense would have to carry the water at the start of the season.
What does your boy do?
The MFer throws 10 picks in the first MFing 6 games and you want to blame the defense.
This is what the Vikings got in return for giving this MFer 30 million bucks last March.
A craptacular start right when they needed him the most.
He finished the year only throwing 3 picks in the final 10 games.
He knew the defense was going to struggle better than any of us.
When you need him the most, he comes up the least.
Below is a comprehensive list of teams scoring more than 32 points a game in 2020
1.
End of list.
You all make it seem like giving up the farm to draft a replacement is such a "sure thing".
QB's drafted since 2015 in round 1:
2015 - Jameis Winston
2015 - Marcus Mariota
2016 - Jared Goff
2016 - Carson Wentz
2016 - Paxton Lynch
2017 - Mitch Trubisky
2017 - Patrick Mahomes
2017 - Deshaun Watson
2018 - Baker Mayfield
2018 - Josh Allen
2018 - Josh Rosen
2018 - Lamar Jackson
2019 - Kyler Murray
2019 - Daniel Jones
2019 - Dwyane Haskins
2020 - Joe Burrow
2020 - Tua Tagovailoa
2020 - Justin Herbert
So you have 18 QBs there with 5 being considerably better than Cousins with maybe another 2 (Murray/Burrow) who may be. So about a 25% hit rate on a QB better than Kirk. I just can't rationalize having to give up multiple 1s and a slew of other picks, maybe players? To get a 1/4 chance. It just doesn't make sense. Next off-season the story may change depending on their draft position and the fact you can get off Kirk's cap number in 2023.
Kirk's extension last season pretty much precluded them from taking a QB until 2022. If one falls to #14 that is a different conversation. But it would be a massive mistake to mortgage the future and pour more into QB now.
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