What is it with this team ffs

@"StickyBun" said:

@"Viking1987" said:

@"Mike Olson" said: I am going to go with having a coach that still thinks it is 1987. Shoehorning a philosophy that is long pst its time opens up many other issues.

bs this loss is not on Zimmer  kicker sucks   ref gave Tampa 7  that is a 17 point swing

Exactly. It isn't Zimmer. Why MIke is blowing his wad on bashing Zimmer for this is ridiculous. The team was smashing the ball down their throat and dominating before fucking Bailey turned into a headcase. He left 10 points on the table himself. That 7 point gift before halftime was a travesty by the refs.

@"Mike Olson" said:

@"StickyBun" said:

@"Viking1987" said:

@"Mike Olson" said: I am going to go with having a coach that still thinks it is 1987. Shoehorning a philosophy that is long pst its time opens up many other issues.

bs this loss is not on Zimmer  kicker sucks   ref gave Tampa 7  that is a 17 point swing

Exactly. It isn't Zimmer. Why MIke is blowing his wad on bashing Zimmer for this is ridiculous. The team was smashing the ball down their throat and dominating before fucking Bailey turned into a headcase. He left 10 points on the table himself. That 7 point gift before halftime was a travesty by the refs.

I will wager that Zimmer is fired this offseason if he fails to make the playoffs. I have heard he was supposed to be fired last offseason but zygi didn’t want to after the N.O. loss.

This team is poorly run all around. The failure to manage a clock after this many years in the league is absurd. his history on destroying kickers speaks for itself. What he put baily through today was just stupidity. 

Whatever though let’s keep the mediocrity train rolling. What are we up to 3 playoff wins under this guy? 

I'm not saying I've loved every move Zimmer has made, what I'm saying is THIS loss isn't on the coaching staff. Its what I've consistently said all day yesterday. 

Its fucking stupid to blame the coach when your kicker left 10 points on the field and the refs gifted a PI on a Hail Mary and 7 points. Want to blame Zimmer on other things and other game situations?? I'm on board. Cousins was pressured 24 times yesterday....Brady 3. 

@"StickyBun" said: I'm not saying I've loved every move Zimmer has made, what I'm saying is THIS loss isn't on the coaching staff. Its what I've consistently said all day yesterday. 

Its fucking stupid to blame the coach when your kicker left 10 points on the field and the refs gifted a PI on a Hail Mary and 7 points. Want to blame Zimmer on other things and other game situations?? I'm on board. Cousins was pressured 24 times yesterday....Brady 3. 

It's almost useless to try and convince people. Kind of like the political climate right now. The Vikings could run the table and someone would find a way to complain that they didn't go 16-0. 

He's not a perfect coach, but blaming him for yesterday's loss is pretty asinine. Oh well, big game next week against the Bears. Time to let go of this one and hope that we rebound and get a W.

@"StickyBun" said: I'm not saying I've loved every move Zimmer has made, what I'm saying is THIS loss isn't on the coaching staff. Its what I've consistently said all day yesterday. 

Its fucking stupid to blame the coach when your kicker left 10 points on the field and the refs gifted a PI on a Hail Mary and 7 points. Want to blame Zimmer on other things and other game situations?? I'm on board. Cousins was pressured 24 times yesterday....Brady 3. 

Yep, most of that pressure came in the 2nd half, too. Once we got behind, they just came after him. It was a perfect storm: horrible day by the kicker, a couple of terrible calls by the refs, allowing the Bucs to score to end the half. Then get the ball back to open the 2nd half and get a lead that forced us to largely abandon what had been a surprisingly effective run game.

What had been a game run at OUR pace, suddenly became a game run at their pace. Bucs pinned their ears back. Game over. 

How do you lose all control of an NFL game in half a quarter?Let us count the ways from the second quarter of the Vikings' 26-14 loss at Tampa Bay on Sunday.
• You rush three against Tom Brady on third-and-4 and suddenly he stops looking like an old man who was 0-for-22 on deep balls at one point this season. The 48-yard TD travels 54 yards perfectly through the air and you're down 7-6.
"That play changed all the momentum to our sideline," said Buccaneers coach Bruce Arians, whose team held the ball for only 2 minutes, 30 seconds in the first quarter and 20:57 for the entire game.
• Your right tackle, Brian O'Neill, false starts on third-and-10 with only 16,031 people in the stands. Your kicker, Dan Bailey, has to move 5 yards back and misses a 54-yarder by about 20 yards to the right. One of his four missed kicks on the day, as you may well know.
• You have Brady stopped in the red zone with 1:02 left in the half. You tackle LeSean McCoy for a 3-yard gain to the 18 on third-and-6. Yippee!
But …
Safety Harrison Smith gets flagged for lowering his helmet to initiate contact. It's the fourth time he's had a personal foul of this nature this season.
Coach Mike Zimmer disagreed with the call and said it was one of two that "changed the complexion of the game." We'll get to the other one soon.
"I just heard hit him on the shoulder," said Zimmer, who heard wrong because there was helmet-to-helmet contact. "What I saw was the guy caught the ball, everybody is trying to get to the first-down marker, the guy is stumbling and falling to the ground and we're trying to stop him before he gets there."
First-and-goal from the 9.
• Two snaps later, your rookie cornerback, Jeff Gladney, intercepts a pass in the end zone. He thinks he's heading for "SportsCenter" stardom with Brady's third pick-six of the year.
"I seen a clean play, pick, going to the house with it," Gladney said. "My first one. Was ready for it. Needed it."
Nope. Defensive pass interference. The Vikings go down 14-6 on the next snap.
• You offense gets the ball back with 44 seconds left. Amazingly, the Vikings have to punt the ball away just 13 seconds later. Brady gets the ball with 21 seconds left.
"That's another one of those possessions that you feel had a big impact on the outcome of the game," quarterback Kirk Cousins said. "That's where taking a sack might actually be helpful. We throw an incompletion, and it stops the clock for them."
• With 1 second left, you watch as Brady launches a ball 59 yards through the air. You watch as tight end Rob Gronkowski and Vikings linebacker Todd Davis push and shove and hand-fight down the field. Gronk bangs into Vikings safety Anthony Harris. Bodies are everywhere, pushing and pulling and doing all the normal things that go unpunished on Hail Marys at the end of halves.
But referee Brad Allen's crew saw this one differently and called pass interference on Davis — the other call that a perturbed Zimmer said changed the game.
ESPN's NFL officiating wizard, Kevin Seifert, was quick with supporting evidence that we just don't see that call made very often. According to Seifert, it was the first time since at least 2008 that a pass interference call was made in a Hail Mary situation.
"That's a terrible call," Hall of Famer and Fox analyst Troy Aikman says.
Arians used the one untimed down to kick a field goal and take a 17-6 lead, which became 23-6 after the Bucs got the ball to start the second half.
"Gronk was going up to possibly get that ball," Brady said. "But it ended up working out well for us."
Unlike anything that happened to the Vikings in the last half of that quarter.

https://www.startribune.com/it-took-half-a-quarter-vs-tampa-bay-for-game-to-fall-apart-for-vikings/573383491/

@"purplefaithful" said: How do you lose all control of an NFL game in half a quarter?Let us count the ways from the second quarter of the Vikings' 26-14 loss at Tampa Bay on Sunday. • You rush three against Tom Brady on third-and-4 and suddenly he stops looking like an old man who was 0-for-22 on deep balls at one point this season. The 48-yard TD travels 54 yards perfectly through the air and you're down 7-6. "That play changed all the momentum to our sideline," said Buccaneers coach Bruce Arians, whose team held the ball for only 2 minutes, 30 seconds in the first quarter and 20:57 for the entire game. • Your right tackle, Brian O'Neill, false starts on third-and-10 with only 16,031 people in the stands. Your kicker, Dan Bailey, has to move 5 yards back and misses a 54-yarder by about 20 yards to the right. One of his four missed kicks on the day, as you may well know. • You have Brady stopped in the red zone with 1:02 left in the half. You tackle LeSean McCoy for a 3-yard gain to the 18 on third-and-6. Yippee! But … Safety Harrison Smith gets flagged for lowering his helmet to initiate contact. It's the fourth time he's had a personal foul of this nature this season. Coach Mike Zimmer disagreed with the call and said it was one of two that "changed the complexion of the game." We'll get to the other one soon. "I just heard hit him on the shoulder," said Zimmer, who heard wrong because there was helmet-to-helmet contact. "What I saw was the guy caught the ball, everybody is trying to get to the first-down marker, the guy is stumbling and falling to the ground and we're trying to stop him before he gets there." First-and-goal from the 9. • Two snaps later, your rookie cornerback, Jeff Gladney, intercepts a pass in the end zone. He thinks he's heading for "SportsCenter" stardom with Brady's third pick-six of the year. "I seen a clean play, pick, going to the house with it," Gladney said. "My first one. Was ready for it. Needed it." Nope. Defensive pass interference. The Vikings go down 14-6 on the next snap. • You offense gets the ball back with 44 seconds left. Amazingly, the Vikings have to punt the ball away just 13 seconds later. Brady gets the ball with 21 seconds left. "That's another one of those possessions that you feel had a big impact on the outcome of the game," quarterback Kirk Cousins said. "That's where taking a sack might actually be helpful. We throw an incompletion, and it stops the clock for them." • With 1 second left, you watch as Brady launches a ball 59 yards through the air. You watch as tight end Rob Gronkowski and Vikings linebacker Todd Davis push and shove and hand-fight down the field. Gronk bangs into Vikings safety Anthony Harris. Bodies are everywhere, pushing and pulling and doing all the normal things that go unpunished on Hail Marys at the end of halves. But referee Brad Allen's crew saw this one differently and called pass interference on Davis — the other call that a perturbed Zimmer said changed the game. ESPN's NFL officiating wizard, Kevin Seifert, was quick with supporting evidence that we just don't see that call made very often. According to Seifert, it was the first time since at least 2008 that a pass interference call was made in a Hail Mary situation. "That's a terrible call," Hall of Famer and Fox analyst Troy Aikman says. Arians used the one untimed down to kick a field goal and take a 17-6 lead, which became 23-6 after the Bucs got the ball to start the second half. "Gronk was going up to possibly get that ball," Brady said. "But it ended up working out well for us." Unlike anything that happened to the Vikings in the last half of that quarter.

https://www.startribune.com/it-took-half-a-quarter-vs-tampa-bay-for-game-to-fall-apart-for-vikings/573383491/

Yep, just 'bad coaching' all over this.

Yesterday was a really bad matchup, plain and simple. Brady always gets calls and Cousins does not...yesterday was pretty bad considering Evans definitely was already falling down and then who actually calls PI on a Hail Mary. Take away 10 points and it's a totally different game. We knew the Bucs were going to get pressure on Cousins and we knew we weren't going to get pressure on Tom. It sucks to lose, but I cant say I'm too pissed because I knew this was likely going to be the outcome.

That being said, Bailey gotta go. He's a mental midget right now and we dont need that while trying to get into the playoffs. I dont care who the replacement is, just find anyone who can make XPs and short field goals.

@"StickyBun" said: I'm not saying I've loved every move Zimmer has made, what I'm saying is THIS loss isn't on the coaching staff. Its what I've consistently said all day yesterday. 

Its fucking stupid to blame the coach when your kicker left 10 points on the field and the refs gifted a PI on a Hail Mary and 7 points. Want to blame Zimmer on other things and other game situations?? I'm on board. Cousins was pressured 24 times yesterday....Brady 3. 

He has missed like 6 kicks leading up to that. And we put him out there to kick a 54 yarder. That Cousins was pressured didn’t change that fact. Even with Zim’s bad eye he should have seen that. We haven’t even talked about zimmers horrendous clock management over the course of his career. I think people just like him and give him a pass because he is a crusty salty old dude. 

(Edited because MaroonBells told me to...kidding:)

Here is how I judge a HC.

1 -The coaches they hire to implement and develop your philosophy. 
2 -Coaching and developing the players the GM brings in.
3 -Consistency from all 3 units of a team.
4 -Consistency in player preparation/enthusiasm from game to each game
5 -Pre-game planning
6 -In-game planning and adjustments
7 -TO and clock management

Here is how I would grade Zimmer over the years.  Overall I think he was a very HC hire who turned a shit-show Defense into a TOP 5 almost instantly.  But I think his time has passed and it is time to move on to some more youthful philosophy.

Grades for his tenure not just now:

1 -The coaches they hire to implement and develop your philosophy:  The coaches they hire etc..   Zimmer does seem to usually bring in experienced coaches but it has not necessarily been a success (Turner comes to mind the most).  On the offensive side I think it has been very average at best.  ST's have been below average with our well noted kicker issues over the years and our ST coaches as well.  Pretty consistent on the Def side but Zimmer himself runs that show so whatever.  Grade C

2 -Coaching and developing the players the GM brings in:  This can be tricky because it depends on if you think the GM brought in the talent and how much say the HC had or didn't have.  But I like to be definitive in area's of responsibility and that credit/blame goes to the GM.  The buck stops there.  Overall, It seems to me that Zimmer has coached/developed those players pretty well without getting into too much details. I might even lean B+ on this one especially what you see with this draft class development.   Grade B

3 -Consistency from all 3 units of a team:  We have no consistency.  Whenever our Def is playing lights out our Off sucks and sometimes visa versa.  Then there is constant inconsistent ST's. Grade: D+/C

4 - Consistency in player preparation/enthusiasm from game to each game: We have no game to game consistency IMO.  Grade: C

5 -Pre-game planning.  Zimms pre-game planning (although I think he really does the Defense) seems to be sound.  But then you wonder over the years how much he handicapped the Offensive game planning so I bring a B down into the C+ range. Grade: C+

6 - In-game planning and adjustments: C+/B - We have all seen some excellent adjustments from our defense under Zimmers tenure.  But I think he interferes too much on the other side as mentioned above. Grade C+/B

7 - TO and clock management: Solid C from year 1 with no growth/improvement to now.  Grade: C

So, we all talk about if Cousin's is good enough to bring us a ring but what about Zimmer?  I don't think so.  He gets outcoached and out-schemed too much for my liking. He is maybe average game day.  But it is the consistent inconsistency (see what I did there) that is the most maddening from a Zimmer coached team.  I think we have had enough sample size to move on even though I like organizational consistency like the Steelers etc.  But you also have to know when it is time to move on.  

@"minny65" said: Here is how I judge a HC.

Coaching and developing the players the GM brings in.

B - this can be tricky because it depends on if you think the GM brought in the talent and how much say the HC had or didn't have.  But I like to be definitive in area's of responsibility and that credit/blame goes to the GM.  The buck stops there.  Overall, It seems to me that Zimmer has coached/developed those players pretty well without getting into too much details. I might even lean B+ on this one especially what you see with this draft class development.  

.  

Interesting judgment method and overall I agree. But I want to dissect this item, on which you gave strong marks. Where do we see good development of players? I know you cited the most recent draft class, but I look at it from a multi-year perspective. Whatever success a player has in his rookie year is probably about half due to his physical skills and college program, and maybe half due to coach prep. But what about players improving over several years here? I see too many who never realized their potential: Trae Waynes, Makensie Alexander, Pat Elflein? Maybe it's too soon to dismiss Smith, Mattison, and Samia, but not sure any of them are any better than the day they were drafted. Maybe Treadwell was a draft misfire that can't be blamed on Zimmer. Smith, Rhodes, and Barr were high picks - but the only player picked later than round 3 who developed at all was Diggs, and we're on dubious ground to give Zimmer much credit there; there is not a single day 3 pick on this roster, despite having the most round 4+ picks in the league over his time here.

The only clear development prizes are Eric Kendricks and Danielle Hunter.

@"Mike Olson" said:

@"StickyBun" said: I'm not saying I've loved every move Zimmer has made, what I'm saying is THIS loss isn't on the coaching staff. Its what I've consistently said all day yesterday. 

Its fucking stupid to blame the coach when your kicker left 10 points on the field and the refs gifted a PI on a Hail Mary and 7 points. Want to blame Zimmer on other things and other game situations?? I'm on board. Cousins was pressured 24 times yesterday....Brady 3. 

 I think people just like him and give him a pass because he is a crusty salty old dude. 

@"minny65" said: Here is how I judge a HC.

The coaches they hire to implement and develop your philosophy. 
Coaching and developing the players the GM brings in.
Consistency from all 3 units of a team.
Consistency in player preparation/enthusiasm for each game
Pre-game planning
In-game planning and adjustments
TO and clock management

Here is how I would grade Zimmer over the years.  Overall I think he was a very HC hire who turned a shit-show Defense into a TOP 5 almost instantly.  But I think his time has passed and it is time to move on to some more youthful philosophy.

Grades for his tenure not just now:

C - the coaches they hire etc..   Zimmer does seem to usually bring in experienced coaches but it has not necessarily been a success (Turner comes to mind the most).  On the offensive side I think it has been very average at best.  ST's have been below average with our well noted kicker issues over the years and our ST coaches as well.  Pretty consistent on the Def side but Zimmer himself runs that show so whatever.

B - this can be tricky because it depends on if you think the GM brought in the talent and how much say the HC had or didn't have.  But I like to be definitive in area's of responsibility and that credit/blame goes to the GM.  The buck stops there.  Overall, It seems to me that Zimmer has coached/developed those players pretty well without getting into too much details. I might even lean B+ on this one especially what you see with this draft class development.  

D+/C - We have no consistency.  Whenever our Def is playing lights out our Off sucks and sometimes visa versa.  Then there is constant inconsistent ST's.

C - We have no game to game consistency IMO

C+ - Zimms pre-game planning (although I think he really does the Defense) seems to be sound.  But then you wonder over the years how much he handicapped the Offensive game planning so I bring a B down into the C+ range.

C+/B - We have all seen some excellent adjustments from our defense under Zimmers tenure.  But I think he interferes too much on the other side.

C - solid C from year 1 with no growth/improvement

So, we all talk about if Cousin's is good enough to bring us a ring but what about Zimmer?  I don't think so.  He gets outcoached and out-schemed too much for my liking. He is maybe average game day.  But it is the consistent inconsistency (see what I did there) that is the most maddening from a Zimmer coached team.  I think we have had enough sample size to move on even though I like organizational consistency like the Steelers etc.  But you also have to know when it is time to move on.  

I agree with most. But this would be a lot easier to follow if you repeated each coaching criterion and used it as a bolded subhead at the start of each graded paragraph below.

@"minny65" said: (Edited because MaroonBells told me to...kidding:)

Here is how I judge a HC.

1 -The coaches they hire to implement and develop your philosophy. 
2 -Coaching and developing the players the GM brings in.
3 -Consistency from all 3 units of a team.
4 -Consistency in player preparation/enthusiasm from game to each game
5 -Pre-game planning
6 -In-game planning and adjustments
7 -TO and clock management

Here is how I would grade Zimmer over the years.  Overall I think he was a very HC hire who turned a shit-show Defense into a TOP 5 almost instantly.  But I think his time has passed and it is time to move on to some more youthful philosophy.

Grades for his tenure not just now:

1 -The coaches they hire to implement and develop your philosophy:  The coaches they hire etc..   Zimmer does seem to usually bring in experienced coaches but it has not necessarily been a success (Turner comes to mind the most).  On the offensive side I think it has been very average at best.  ST's have been below average with our well noted kicker issues over the years and our ST coaches as well.  Pretty consistent on the Def side but Zimmer himself runs that show so whatever.  Grade C

2 -Coaching and developing the players the GM brings in:  This can be tricky because it depends on if you think the GM brought in the talent and how much say the HC had or didn't have.  But I like to be definitive in area's of responsibility and that credit/blame goes to the GM.  The buck stops there.  Overall, It seems to me that Zimmer has coached/developed those players pretty well without getting into too much details. I might even lean B+ on this one especially what you see with this draft class development.   Grade B

3 -Consistency from all 3 units of a team:  We have no consistency.  Whenever our Def is playing lights out our Off sucks and sometimes visa versa.  Then there is constant inconsistent ST's. Grade: D+/C

4 - Consistency in player preparation/enthusiasm from game to each game: We have no game to game consistency IMO.  Grade: C

5 -Pre-game planning.  Zimms pre-game planning (although I think he really does the Defense) seems to be sound.  But then you wonder over the years how much he handicapped the Offensive game planning so I bring a B down into the C+ range. Grade: C+

6 - In-game planning and adjustments: C+/B - We have all seen some excellent adjustments from our defense under Zimmers tenure.  But I think he interferes too much on the other side as mentioned above. Grade C+/B

7 - TO and clock management: Solid C from year 1 with no growth/improvement to now.  Grade: C

So, we all talk about if Cousin's is good enough to bring us a ring but what about Zimmer?  I don't think so.  He gets outcoached and out-schemed too much for my liking. He is maybe average game day.  But it is the consistent inconsistency (see what I did there) that is the most maddening from a Zimmer coached team.  I think we have had enough sample size to move on even though I like organizational consistency like the Steelers etc.  But you also have to know when it is time to move on.  

Edited version :)