Last 8 offensive plays...15 yds
True colors came out when it mattered. Defense can't stop shit and offense sputters. At the playoff bullshit can stop now.
@"ArizonaViking" said: What surprises me is a few weeks ago when the Vikings were 1-5, certain posters were calling for "Tank for Trevor" and lose out the season. Now the same posters are complaining about losing a game yesterday. I saw going in before the first game the Vikings were not a very good football team, barely a .500 team by the end of the season. Yes we need a quarterback, yes we need 3T defensive tackle and yes another offensive guard...probably a whole slew of other positions to fill because when the season is over, more veteran players are going to get their walking papers. We are looking at an organization going into full rebuilding mode and will be 2 or 3 years away at being a completive team again. We might as well accept it and roll with it. Disappointment is going to be the normal for awhile.this is more frustration that they didnt accept what you said ( what most of us saw) and sell those vets at the trade deadline in preparation for a complete rebuild, instead they kept them, and managed to add a few meaningless wins and are now likely out of the QB race this year which will only extend that window of disappointment.
This was a team loss, but I keep going back to this:
“Damn we left Cousins too much time on the clock!”... Said no team ever!!! :s
I look at this game, and it’s the reason you have to be
looking to draft an upgrade to Cousins.
Is this loss Cousins fault?
Not really, the defense isn’t good at all, but sometimes things don’t go
to plan, and at those times you need to lean on your best players, and that’s
not Cousins. If you can’t lean on your
QB to win games like this, you need to replace them, because you need to lean
on your QB during a SB run.
I think it’s pretty obvious that our defense isn’t good
enough to win a SB, but I also think it’s obvious that Cousins isn’t good
enough to win a SB. We would need to have
a near flawless team to carry Cousins to a SB win. We need our two Pro Bowl caliber receivers
and All Pro caliber RB. We need our good
OLine, because when one of them is out, the train goes off the tracks.
@"medaille" said: I look at this game, and it’s the reason you have to be looking to draft an upgrade to Cousins.Is this loss Cousins fault?
Not really, the defense isn’t good at all, but sometimes things don’t go
to plan, and at those times you need to lean on your best players, and that’s
not Cousins. If you can’t lean on your
QB to win games like this, you need to replace them, because you need to lean
on your QB during a SB run.I think it’s pretty obvious that our defense isn’t good
enough to win a SB, but I also think it’s obvious that Cousins isn’t good
enough to win a SB. We would need to have
a near flawless team to carry Cousins to a SB win. We need our two Pro Bowl caliber receivers
and All Pro caliber RB. We need our good
OLine, because when one of them is out, the train goes off the tracks.
I think Cousins is plenty good enough to win a Super Bowl. Can he avoid playing poorly in enough big games to get there? Don't know. And that uncertainty is probably why we'll be drafting a QB soon.
But I don't know why Cousins' name is even brought up when it comes to the Dallas game. He played a really nice game. Can't think of a single thing he did that I could point to and say THAT'S why we lost. Sure, I'm frustrated that the offense couldn't put the game away on the last two drives, but the offense has 11 players. And our superstar rookie, like Thielen last week, had a ball go right through his hands.
@"HappyViking" said:You're right, Zanary, I've never been a Cousins fan. I don't hate him. I just don't think he's very good when the game is on the line. Maybe you disagree, and good for you. When the Vikes got the ball with plenty of time to at least tie it, I said to my wife "Now it's time to see what our 30 million dollar QB can do!".He once again showed us.
Yeah, how DARE he not catch his own passes...
@"Zanary" said:@"HappyViking" said:You're right, Zanary, I've never been a Cousins fan. I don't hate him. I just don't think he's very good when the game is on the line. Maybe you disagree, and good for you. When the Vikes got the ball with plenty of time to at least tie it, I said to my wife "Now it's time to see what our 30 million dollar QB can do!".He once again showed us.
Yeah, how DARE he not catch his own passes...
His last two drives were a 3 and out then a 4 and out. Don't you expect better production from the highest paid player on the team? I dont' think it's just me. Anyway, I'm over it now. I do root for Kirk, but I mainly expect failure if we're down late in the 4th.Here's a snippet from pf's article he posted above:But on Sunday, when Patrick Mahomes orchestrated a game-winning
75-yard touchdown drive to beat the Raiders and Aaron Rodgers led a
drive for a game-tying field goal around the same time the Vikings went
four-and-out to lose to the Cowboys by three,
critiques resurfaced about Cousins in the clutch. A day after the
Vikings’ third loss by a field goal or less, it’s worth looking at
Cousins’ record in high-pressure moments and attempting to put it in
context.
We should acknowledge first that last-minute drives —
when offenses must abandon the run game and operate with a condensed
playbook against a defense that has the clock on its side and can go
after the quarterback — are not environments conducive to consistent
success. They constitute a relatively small aspect of a quarterback’s
body of work, and a larger sample size isn’t necessarily a good thing,
since it often means a quarterback is playing for a team that finds
itself behind in the closing minutes. It should perhaps come as no
surprise that since 2015 (the year Cousins became a full-time starter),
the quarterback who has thrown the most passes in the final four minutes
of a game where his team trailed by eight points or less is Philip
Rivers, with 187 attempts.
But even when measuring a relatively
small body of work, the quarterbacks with the best numbers in
last-minute situations are the names you’d expect. Mahomes has the NFL’s
best passer rating (115.6) of quarterbacks who’ve thrown at least 50
passes since 2015, according to Pro Football Reference. After the
retired Andrew Luck comes Ben Roethlisberger (105.0), Drew Brees (97.6),
Ryan Tannehill (97.0) and Russell Wilson (93.1). Andy Dalton, who led
the Cowboys’ comeback against the Vikings on Sunday, is actually next at
92.9, just in front of Brady at 92.0.
Cousins’ passer rating in
such situations — 73.1 — ranks 20th of the 33 quarterbacks who’ve thrown
at least 50 passes since 2015. He’s actually just behind Rodgers, who
comes in 19th at 75.4, but while Rodgers has built his narrative with 10
fourth-quarter scores or game-winning drives in the final four minutes
since 2015, Cousins has only done it six times (to go with two ties).
@"Zanary" said:@"HappyViking" said:You're right, Zanary, I've never been a Cousins fan. I don't hate him. I just don't think he's very good when the game is on the line. Maybe you disagree, and good for you. When the Vikes got the ball with plenty of time to at least tie it, I said to my wife "Now it's time to see what our 30 million dollar QB can do!".He once again showed us.
Yeah, how DARE he not catch his own passes...
why the fuck not? Dalton did it.
@"MaroonBells" said:@"medaille" said: I look at this game, and it’s the reason you have to be looking to draft an upgrade to Cousins.Is this loss Cousins fault?
Not really, the defense isn’t good at all, but sometimes things don’t go
to plan, and at those times you need to lean on your best players, and that’s
not Cousins. If you can’t lean on your
QB to win games like this, you need to replace them, because you need to lean
on your QB during a SB run.I think it’s pretty obvious that our defense isn’t good
enough to win a SB, but I also think it’s obvious that Cousins isn’t good
enough to win a SB. We would need to have
a near flawless team to carry Cousins to a SB win. We need our two Pro Bowl caliber receivers
and All Pro caliber RB. We need our good
OLine, because when one of them is out, the train goes off the tracks.
I think Cousins is plenty good enough to win a Super Bowl. Can he avoid playing poorly in enough big games to get there? Don't know. And that uncertainty is probably why we'll be drafting a QB soon.But I don't know why Cousins' name is even brought up when it comes to the Dallas game. He played a really nice game. Can't think of a single thing he did that I could point to and say THAT'S why we lost. Sure, I'm frustrated that the offense couldn't put the game away on the last two drives, but the offense has 11 players. And our superstar rookie, like Thielen last week, had a ball go right through his hands.
I think it's super tough for a mediocre QB to win a SB, because mediocre QBs almost by definition tend to make mistakes or not capitalize on opportunities often enough that cost their teams games. They end up closer to .500 on the season. They have a tougher road to get to the SB with more games on the road. Then once you get to the playoffs you are going to need to put together 3-4 winning games in a row against the best teams in the league.If you want to win a SB, you really need to have a top 5 QB. If you don't have a top 5 QB you need to be so overpowering everywhere else and\or depend a lot on luck. I think you're just better off doing your best with what you got, but always trying to upgrade the QB position until you find that top 5 guy. Next year, we'll need to continue to build the OLine in front of Cousins and get the defense to a top 10 level.
cousins actually led the team to a lead with 3 minutes or less against the Titans and Seahawks. He didn't call the run on 4th and inches vs the seahawks. He also didn't let the other offense in both games drive right down the field to take the lead.
Getting the ball with a minute left when the other team knows what you are going to do is tough. If JJ catches that pass on 2nd and 6 he turns that up the field for at least 15 yds and its a completely different ball game.
Plenty of credit/blame to go around, but if I'm the Vikings, what I'm working on this week is game ending drives. Not game winning drives. They work on that aplenty. But a series of high percentage short passes and runs that you can go to when you have the lead, the ball and you need to run 2 minutes off the clock.
Considering you already have a pretty good offense, you're going to have a lot more luck with that than trying to fix a defense mid year.
Every assumption made by the team, the coach, the play callers, etc should be that the defense will not be able to stop them in a final drive....and plan accordingly.
@"MaroonBells" said: Plenty of credit/blame to go around, but if I'm the Vikings, what I'm working on this week is game ending drives. Not game winning drives. They work on that aplenty. But a series of high percentage short passes and runs that you can go to when you have the lead, the ball and you need to run 2 minutes off the clock.Considering you already have a pretty good offense, you're going to have a lot more luck with that than trying to fix a defense mid year.
Every assumption made by the team, the coach, the play callers, etc is that the defense will not be able to stop them in a final drive....and plan accordingly.
want to end the game... score early and often and put the fucker out of reach in the first half and let the air out of the ball in the second half while still mixing in enough passes to keep the defenses honest. I have seen this offense try and kill clock by running into a stacked box to many times to think that they are capable of running out a clock on an even average NFL defense. Zimmer tries to justify it by saying the goal was to get the other team to use their timeouts, I have heard him say this after multiple late game let downs where our offense goes 3 and out on 3 straight runs and then the other team marches down the field for the win or tying score.
IMO a prevent defense is as bad of an idea as a clock killing offense that is so run heavy that it fails to keep the opposing defense honest. I cant blame Kubiak because we have seen every OC under Zimmer try and "run" out a clock and the results are often the same, we dont have the OL to just impose our running will on the other team.
@"1VikesFan" said: Like I said in the original post 15 yds in their last 8 offensive snaps. Yes, the offense played a good game, at least for most of 2nd half. Yes, the defense did not play well. But they had this fucking game in their grasp and Cousins and the fucking offense failed, they could not hold onto the ball when they needed to.Did you ask yourself why we were down with 1:40 left? Why was Dallas within 2 scores with 1:40 left? Blaming Cousins for horrible defense is about as bad as it gets.
@"mgobluevikes" said:Never blamed Cousins for the defense, where the hell did you get that from? I said the offense could have ended this game by not tanking when they could have ended it and not put the defense back on the field hoping they could stop Dallas. If you're gonna give me shit make sure you are being accurate.@"1VikesFan" said: Like I said in the original post 15 yds in their last 8 offensive snaps. Yes, the offense played a good game, at least for most of 2nd half. Yes, the defense did not play well. But they had this fucking game in their grasp and Cousins and the fucking offense failed, they could not hold onto the ball when they needed to. Did you ask yourself why we were down with 1:40 left? Why was Dallas within 2 scores with 1:40 left? Blaming Cousins for horrible defense is about as bad as it gets.
@"1VikesFan" said:He is being accurate, the defense gave up 31 points to a 2-7 team while the offense scored 28 points (3 TDs by Cousins). Somewhere the defense needs to hold onto a lead...and they didn't.@"mgobluevikes" said:Never blamed Cousins for the defense, where the hell did you get that from? I said the offense could have ended this game by not tanking when they could have ended it and not put the defense back on the field hoping they could stop Dallas. If you're gonna give me shit make sure you are being accurate.@"1VikesFan" said: Like I said in the original post 15 yds in their last 8 offensive snaps. Yes, the offense played a good game, at least for most of 2nd half. Yes, the defense did not play well. But they had this fucking game in their grasp and Cousins and the fucking offense failed, they could not hold onto the ball when they needed to. Did you ask yourself why we were down with 1:40 left? Why was Dallas within 2 scores with 1:40 left? Blaming Cousins for horrible defense is about as bad as it gets.
@"ArizonaViking" said:@"1VikesFan" said:He is being accurate, the defense gave up 31 points to a 2-7 team while the offense scored 28 points (3 TDs by Cousins). Somewhere the defense needs to hold onto a lead...and they didn't.@"mgobluevikes" said:Never blamed Cousins for the defense, where the hell did you get that from? I said the offense could have ended this game by not tanking when they could have ended it and not put the defense back on the field hoping they could stop Dallas. If you're gonna give me shit make sure you are being accurate.@"1VikesFan" said: Like I said in the original post 15 yds in their last 8 offensive snaps. Yes, the offense played a good game, at least for most of 2nd half. Yes, the defense did not play well. But they had this fucking game in their grasp and Cousins and the fucking offense failed, they could not hold onto the ball when they needed to. Did you ask yourself why we were down with 1:40 left? Why was Dallas within 2 scores with 1:40 left? Blaming Cousins for horrible defense is about as bad as it gets.@"ArizonaViking" said:
@"1VikesFan" said:
@"mgobluevikes" said:
@"1VikesFan" said:
Like I said in the original post 15 yds in their last 8 offensive snaps. Yes, the offense played a good game, at least for most of 2nd half. Yes, the defense did not play well. But they had this fucking game in their grasp and Cousins and the fucking offense failed, they could not hold onto the ball when they needed to.
Did you ask yourself why we were down with 1:40 left? Why was Dallas within 2 scores with 1:40 left? Blaming Cousins for horrible defense is about as bad as it gets.
Never blamed Cousins for the defense, where the hell did you get that from? I said the offense could have ended this game by not tanking when they could have ended it and not put the defense back on the field hoping they could stop Dallas. If you're gonna give me shit make sure you are being accurate.
He is being accurate, the defense gave up 31 points to a 2-7 team while the offense scored 28 points (3 TDs by Cousins). Somewhere the defense needs to hold onto a lead...and they didn't.
Where he is was inaccurate was stating I blamed Cousins for the bad defensive showing. Nowhere in this thread did I say that. The offense, not saying Cousins, also turned the ball over twice leading to 10 points. Defense has a bad game but this loss was not all on them and once again Cousins failed with the game on the line.
@"ArizonaViking" said:@"1VikesFan" said:He is being accurate, the defense gave up 31 points to a 2-7 team while the offense scored 28 points (3 TDs by Cousins). Somewhere the defense needs to hold onto a lead...and they didn't.@"mgobluevikes" said:Never blamed Cousins for the defense, where the hell did you get that from? I said the offense could have ended this game by not tanking when they could have ended it and not put the defense back on the field hoping they could stop Dallas. If you're gonna give me shit make sure you are being accurate.@"1VikesFan" said: Like I said in the original post 15 yds in their last 8 offensive snaps. Yes, the offense played a good game, at least for most of 2nd half. Yes, the defense did not play well. But they had this fucking game in their grasp and Cousins and the fucking offense failed, they could not hold onto the ball when they needed to. Did you ask yourself why we were down with 1:40 left? Why was Dallas within 2 scores with 1:40 left? Blaming Cousins for horrible defense is about as bad as it gets.
True...but how can you expect them to? This is a bad, banged up and young defense. We have to play like we know that.Take what you do well and shove it down their throats. Two drives to put the game away, pitting our strength against their weakness. All we need is a couple of first downs and it's game over. And we can't do that? Again? For like the 4th time this season? You just can't keep giving teams the ball back like that and expect to win. It's like leaving a barfight with your baby sister inside.
@"1VikesFan" said:@"ArizonaViking" said:@"1VikesFan" said:He is being accurate, the defense gave up 31 points to a 2-7 team while the offense scored 28 points (3 TDs by Cousins). Somewhere the defense needs to hold onto a lead...and they didn't.@"mgobluevikes" said:Never blamed Cousins for the defense, where the hell did you get that from? I said the offense could have ended this game by not tanking when they could have ended it and not put the defense back on the field hoping they could stop Dallas. If you're gonna give me shit make sure you are being accurate.@"1VikesFan" said: Like I said in the original post 15 yds in their last 8 offensive snaps. Yes, the offense played a good game, at least for most of 2nd half. Yes, the defense did not play well. But they had this fucking game in their grasp and Cousins and the fucking offense failed, they could not hold onto the ball when they needed to. Did you ask yourself why we were down with 1:40 left? Why was Dallas within 2 scores with 1:40 left? Blaming Cousins for horrible defense is about as bad as it gets.@"ArizonaViking" said:
@"1VikesFan" said:
@"mgobluevikes" said:
@"1VikesFan" said:
Like I said in the original post 15 yds in their last 8 offensive snaps. Yes, the offense played a good game, at least for most of 2nd half. Yes, the defense did not play well. But they had this fucking game in their grasp and Cousins and the fucking offense failed, they could not hold onto the ball when they needed to.
Did you ask yourself why we were down with 1:40 left? Why was Dallas within 2 scores with 1:40 left? Blaming Cousins for horrible defense is about as bad as it gets.
Never blamed Cousins for the defense, where the hell did you get that from? I said the offense could have ended this game by not tanking when they could have ended it and not put the defense back on the field hoping they could stop Dallas. If you're gonna give me shit make sure you are being accurate.
He is being accurate, the defense gave up 31 points to a 2-7 team while the offense scored 28 points (3 TDs by Cousins). Somewhere the defense needs to hold onto a lead...and they didn't.
Where he is was inaccurate was stating I blamed Cousins for the bad defensive showing. Nowhere in this thread did I say that. The offense, not saying Cousins, also turned the ball over twice leading to 10 points. Defense has a bad game but this loss was not all on them and once again Cousins failed with the game on the line.
It just seems IMO, that your blaming Cousins entirely for the loss. As if, the Dallas defense didn't know the offense would have to pass every down with only 1:40 left from the Vikings own 25 yard line. You got to hold the defense little responsible for the loss and not full expect Cousins to win it. Dallas defense was probably in a dime defense with 6 defensive backs covering what, 3 wide receivers? The odds of pulling it out were pretty slim. There is a lot of blame to go around, but somehow all focus goes to Cousins. Yes, Cousins fumbled and so did Cook. Do we get rid of him too? The defense has to step up and hold a lead sometimes and not expect the offense to pull it out of their arses al the time.
Put yourself in Zimmer's shoes. The way he wanted to win that game was to put Dalton on his butt and hold onto that 4th quarter lead. Nobody is talking about the INT Boyd dropped to win it.
The Vikings only sacked Dalton once and only pressured him 4 times the entire game. That's bad and Zimmer knows it.
Zimmer's job is on the line, and this offseason finding a way to pressure the QB will be one of his top priorities. I don't think he gives a rat's eye hole right now about the about finding the QB of the future. Just saying!
@"Carl Knowles" said: Put yourself in Zimmer's shoes. The way he wanted to win that game was to put Dalton on his butt and hold onto that 4th quarter lead. Nobody is talking about the INT Boyd dropped to win it.The Vikings only sacked Dalton once and only pressured him 4 times the entire game. That's bad and Zimmer knows it.
Zimmer's job is on the line, and this offseason finding a way to pressure the QB will be one of his top priorities. I don't think he gives a rat's eye hole right now about the about finding the QB of the future. Just saying!
I think this is spot on. And as a long-time fan, you don't have to twist my arm regarding the need for a pass-rush.
But Zimmer is who he is - unashamedly. It's one of the reasons I respect the guy. That said, I think the offense is as good as it is in spite of Zimmer, not because of Zimmer.
Best move he's made recently was Kubiak, but that aint the direction the NFL is going either.
This philosophy of his (and the teams lack of post-season wins) are the reasons I want to move on from this period of Viking football.
And sooner than later...
@"Carl Knowles" said: Put yourself in Zimmer's shoes. The way he wanted to win that game was to put Dalton on his butt and hold onto that 4th quarter lead. Nobody is talking about the INT Boyd dropped to win it.The Vikings only sacked Dalton once and only pressured him 4 times the entire game. That's bad and Zimmer knows it.
Zimmer's job is on the line, and this offseason finding a way to pressure the QB will be one of his top priorities. I don't think he gives a rat's eye hole right now aqbout the about finding the QB of the future. Just saying!
His lack of concern for the future is why he doesn't get to run the draft and a perfect example of why it may be time to move on. Its in the teams best interest to find a QB of the future sooner than later and if Zimmer isn't in favor of that then bye.
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