Anyone have a clue Cleveland was so nimble?

@"StickyBun" said: He pulls so well. Moves great for a big guy. He's lightning out of the stance on the snap. You can see his confidence growing. No doubt he's still learning and will have his ups and downs as the year goes on, but it APPEARS he's got what it takes for the Vikings as a starting OG. He's only going to improve. No preseason games at all to learn, impressive.

I remember reading a draft report on him from a good source that said explicitly that Cleveland's best position in the NFL would be OG, not OT. It was one of the few.

Led tackles in five categories: the 40 (4.93), Wonderlic (30), bench press (30), short shuttle (4.46) and 3-cone (7.26). 

I remember reading his Draft Bio, agility and speed was great, but slowing a bull rush and strength were the questions.  He had a toe injury his senior season and there was speculation that may have impacted his ability to anchor against a power move.  Liking things so far, but been here before, hope he retires a Viking with many pro bowl seasons.  He has not been walked back into Kirk and looks like he has ragdolled a few line backers. 

Just think what he will be like next year after putting on 15-20 lbs of muscle, at OT or OG.  We have 3 nice building blocks right now.  Have we finally figured out drafting OL in the early rounds tends to be productive.  

@"Kmerry82" said: Just think what he will be like next year after putting on 15-20 lbs of muscle, at OT or OG.  We have 3 nice building blocks right now.  Have we finally figured out drafting OL in the early rounds tends to be productive.  

Cleveland weighs in around 311 lbs.  A little more weight and a lot stronger.  He will be playing that guard position next to McNeil a long time...

Maybe Mrs. Cleveland?

@"Kmerry82" said: Just think what he will be like next year after putting on 15-20 lbs of muscle, at OT or OG.  We have 3 nice building blocks right now.  Have we finally figured out drafting OL in the early rounds tends to be productive.  

Or maybe they should let him retain his speed and agility. He is a converted TE (like O'Neill and Bradbury) and probably already bulked up a lot to reach 311. Vikings took an agile 306-pound rookie named Matt Kalil and urged him to gain about 20 pounds throughout his time here, and IMO it contributed to his injury problems. Kalil had many issues, I know, but bulking up did him no good.
Yes, these guys might struggle with the occasional Akiem Nicks monster DTs, but the trend is fast, light defensive players.

@"Jor-El" said:

@"Kmerry82" said: Just think what he will be like next year after putting on 15-20 lbs of muscle, at OT or OG.  We have 3 nice building blocks right now.  Have we finally figured out drafting OL in the early rounds tends to be productive.  

Or maybe they should let him retain his speed and agility. He is a converted TE (like O'Neill and Bradbury) and probably already bulked up a lot to reach 311. Vikings took an agile 306-pound rookie named Matt Kalil and urged him to gain about 20 pounds throughout his time here, and IMO it contributed to his injury problems. Kalil had many issues, I know, but bulking up did him no good.
Yes, these guys might struggle with the occasional Akiem Nicks monster DTs, but the trend is fast, light defensive players.

@"Kmerry82" said:

@"Jor-El" said:

@"Kmerry82" said: Just think what he will be like next year after putting on 15-20 lbs of muscle, at OT or OG.  We have 3 nice building blocks right now.  Have we finally figured out drafting OL in the early rounds tends to be productive.  

Or maybe they should let him retain his speed and agility. He is a converted TE (like O'Neill and Bradbury) and probably already bulked up a lot to reach 311. Vikings took an agile 306-pound rookie named Matt Kalil and urged him to gain about 20 pounds throughout his time here, and IMO it contributed to his injury problems. Kalil had many issues, I know, but bulking up did him no good.
Yes, these guys might struggle with the occasional Akiem Nicks monster DTs, but the trend is fast, light defensive players.

He is still light in the trunk.  Natural extra bulk would be fine.  Less than 3% weight gain is what we are talking about.  He will never be a monster.   However he will have to be able to neutralize players like Akiem Nicks.  

@"JimmyinSD" said:

@"Kmerry82" said:

@"Jor-El" said:

@"Kmerry82" said: Just think what he will be like next year after putting on 15-20 lbs of muscle, at OT or OG.  We have 3 nice building blocks right now.  Have we finally figured out drafting OL in the early rounds tends to be productive.  

Or maybe they should let him retain his speed and agility. He is a converted TE (like O'Neill and Bradbury) and probably already bulked up a lot to reach 311. Vikings took an agile 306-pound rookie named Matt Kalil and urged him to gain about 20 pounds throughout his time here, and IMO it contributed to his injury problems. Kalil had many issues, I know, but bulking up did him no good.
Yes, these guys might struggle with the occasional Akiem Nicks monster DTs, but the trend is fast, light defensive players.

He is still light in the trunk.  Natural extra bulk would be fine.  Less than 3% weight gain is what we are talking about.  He will never be a monster.   However he will have to be able to neutralize players like Akiem Nicks.  

whos to say at 311 he isnt already beyond the natural capacity of his frame?  there is nothing natural about the caloric intake and eating habits that some of these guys have to maintain to stay at their playing weights.  I would be curious to know how much he has gained vs grown since HS.

@"StickyBun" said:

@"JimmyinSD" said:

@"Kmerry82" said:

@"Jor-El" said:

@"Kmerry82" said: Just think what he will be like next year after putting on 15-20 lbs of muscle, at OT or OG.  We have 3 nice building blocks right now.  Have we finally figured out drafting OL in the early rounds tends to be productive.  

Or maybe they should let him retain his speed and agility. He is a converted TE (like O'Neill and Bradbury) and probably already bulked up a lot to reach 311. Vikings took an agile 306-pound rookie named Matt Kalil and urged him to gain about 20 pounds throughout his time here, and IMO it contributed to his injury problems. Kalil had many issues, I know, but bulking up did him no good.
Yes, these guys might struggle with the occasional Akiem Nicks monster DTs, but the trend is fast, light defensive players.

He is still light in the trunk.  Natural extra bulk would be fine.  Less than 3% weight gain is what we are talking about.  He will never be a monster.   However he will have to be able to neutralize players like Akiem Nicks.  

whos to say at 311 he isnt already beyond the natural capacity of his frame?  there is nothing natural about the caloric intake and eating habits that some of these guys have to maintain to stay at their playing weights.  I would be curious to know how much he has gained vs grown since HS.

It already is above his natural capacity, as it is 90% of offensive linemen in the NFL. Human beings aren't meant to carry that much weight/density on their frames naturally, even at 6'5"+ like Cleveland. Ever see these guys when they retire? They lose about 40 lbs in 3 months, sometimes substantially more. The question is can he add weight/muscle easily? Some guys are better than others at that. I don't think the team would want to see Cleveland more than 315-320 lbs. I think O'Neill struggles mightily to maintain whatever weight he is now. And as you mention, they are eating ungodly amounts of food to just maintain.

@"StickyBun" said:

@"JimmyinSD" said:

@"Kmerry82" said:

@"Jor-El" said:

@"Kmerry82" said: Just think what he will be like next year after putting on 15-20 lbs of muscle, at OT or OG.  We have 3 nice building blocks right now.  Have we finally figured out drafting OL in the early rounds tends to be productive.  

Or maybe they should let him retain his speed and agility. He is a converted TE (like O'Neill and Bradbury) and probably already bulked up a lot to reach 311. Vikings took an agile 306-pound rookie named Matt Kalil and urged him to gain about 20 pounds throughout his time here, and IMO it contributed to his injury problems. Kalil had many issues, I know, but bulking up did him no good.
Yes, these guys might struggle with the occasional Akiem Nicks monster DTs, but the trend is fast, light defensive players.

He is still light in the trunk.  Natural extra bulk would be fine.  Less than 3% weight gain is what we are talking about.  He will never be a monster.   However he will have to be able to neutralize players like Akiem Nicks.  

whos to say at 311 he isnt already beyond the natural capacity of his frame?  there is nothing natural about the caloric intake and eating habits that some of these guys have to maintain to stay at their playing weights.  I would be curious to know how much he has gained vs grown since HS.

It already is above his natural capacity, as it is 90% of offensive linemen in the NFL. Human beings aren't meant to carry that much weight/density on their frames naturally, even at 6'5"+ like Cleveland. Ever see these guys when they retire? They lose about 40 lbs in 3 months, sometimes substantially more. The question is can he add weight/muscle easily? Some guys are better than others at that. I don't think the team would want to see Cleveland more than 315-320 lbs. I think O'Neill struggles mightily to maintain whatever weight he is now. And as you mention, they are eating ungodly amounts of food to just maintain.

Yeah, maybe it's just my age, because I remember when offensive linemen weighing 300 pounds were a rarity. Bubba Paris slipped to the 2nd round in 1982 because most scouts were scared that he would never be in shape since his weight sometimes "ballooned to 300" in college. The Redskins' Hogs? Their starting 5 linemen averaged less than 280. Do you think Randall McDaniel even weighed 290 in his final Pro Bowl year of 2000?
Sure, the game has changed. But the humans playing the game have not evolved to carry more mass. As Jimmy said, they overload these guys - and overwork them in the weight room - and your talented guys are on IR too much.

@"Jor-El" said:

Yeah, maybe it's just my age, because I remember when offensive linemen weighing 300 pounds were a rarity. Bubba Paris slipped to the 2nd round in 1982 because most scouts were scared that he would never be in shape since his weight sometimes "ballooned to 300" in college. The Redskins' Hogs? Their starting 5 linemen averaged less than 280. Do you think Randall McDaniel even weighed 290 in his final Pro Bowl year of 2000? Sure, the game has changed. But the humans playing the game have not evolved to carry more mass. As Jimmy said, they overload these guys - and overwork them in the weight room - and your talented guys are on IR too much.

There is only one way to condition your body to be so nimble.