So how do we trade up?

@"PSBLAKE" said: I honestly think we will end up around 7-9 or 6-10 which puts us into draft purgatory.  probably with the 15th pick how do we trade up?  how do we get top five in order to get one of the QBs?

Would trading our whole draft then just blowing the competition away with high signing bonuses on undrafted guys work?

thoughts?

if we arent in the top 10, its going to cost to much so we might as well eat another season and hope for a shot in the 2022 draft.  no point in crippling future starters at so many spots for a shot at a starter at one spot,  at QB is the most important position on the team,  but we all know that the odds of even TL being a guy that can do it on his own right out of the box is very very slim and those that come after him it will be even less likely.    get to a spot where a couple 2nds or next years first will get you the guy you want (not the guy you settle for),  or just hold your water for 1 more draft.

@"JimmyinSD" said:

@"PSBLAKE" said: I honestly think we will end up around 7-9 or 6-10 which puts us into draft purgatory.  probably with the 15th pick how do we trade up?  how do we get top five in order to get one of the QBs?

Would trading our whole draft then just blowing the competition away with high signing bonuses on undrafted guys work?

thoughts?

if we arent in the top 10, its going to cost to much so we might as well eat another season and hope for a shot in the 2022 draft.  no point in crippling future starters at so many spots for a shot at a starter at one spot,  at QB is the most important position on the team,  but we all know that the odds of even TL being a guy that can do it on his own right out of the box is very very slim and those that come after him it will be even less likely.    get to a spot where a couple 2nds or next years first will get you the guy you want (not the guy you settle for),  or just hold your water for 1 more draft.

@"PSBLAKE" said:

@"JimmyinSD" said:

@"PSBLAKE" said: I honestly think we will end up around 7-9 or 6-10 which puts us into draft purgatory.  probably with the 15th pick how do we trade up?  how do we get top five in order to get one of the QBs?

Would trading our whole draft then just blowing the competition away with high signing bonuses on undrafted guys work?

thoughts?

if we arent in the top 10, its going to cost to much so we might as well eat another season and hope for a shot in the 2022 draft.  no point in crippling future starters at so many spots for a shot at a starter at one spot,  at QB is the most important position on the team,  but we all know that the odds of even TL being a guy that can do it on his own right out of the box is very very slim and those that come after him it will be even less likely.    get to a spot where a couple 2nds or next years first will get you the guy you want (not the guy you settle for),  or just hold your water for 1 more draft.

My brain agrees with you but we have been doing this same strategy for years and never has worked. Teddy was the exception to that rule because he fell.  I am just sick of the same thing year after year.  Great drafts bad QB.  Cousins will never stop hitting his head on the glass ceiling of mediocrity.

There’s a fair number of quality QBs drafted 10th
or later.

Mahomes, Watson, Jackson, Wilson, Rodgers, Brees

These guys come to mind immediately.  I think it’s more about taking a shot on a
guy when you have a chance, than it is about blowing your load for the guys at
the top of the draft rankings on the one year you NEED a qb.  The chance of drafting
a SB caliber QB is not good regardless of where they are drafted, you just have
to be prepared to be persistent.

That said, the Chiefs saw their opportunity and traded from
27th to 10th to get Mahomes, and they gave up a 3rd
and next years 1st, which was clearly worth it.

Lets take a look at the stats of the Vikings' first round quarterbacks:

Tommy Kramer: QB Rate: 72.8, TD-INT: 159-158
Daunte Culpepper: 63% comp, QB Rate: 87.8, TD-INT: 149-106
Christian Ponder: 59.8% comp, QB Rate: 75.9, TD-INT: 38-36
Teddy Bridgewater: 66% comp, QB Rate 90.2, TD-INT: 47-31

All of them took us to the playoffs in at least one season. Krammer and Culpepper had Pro-Bowl years, but the Vikings mostly had a lot of mediocre years with all of our first round QB if you look at the win/lose column.

Trading up will cost us at least a first round pick in 2021 and 2022... and that is only to move up to get Fields or Lance (the Trevor Lawrence price is probably way off the charts).

Look, the Vikings are stuck with Kirk Cousins for the next two seasons, so pick the best QB available when the Vikings are on the clock (in rounds 1-3) and groom him behind Cousins. Right now the Vikings are a run oriented team featuring Davlin Cook. We can win with a game manager type! Why trade up into the top five to get a QB that is only going to hand the ball off?

A good QB will fall to the Vikings at some point. There are more than 3 QB in the draft, and come April this class might feature as many as 5 or 6 first round QBs.

@"Carl Knowles" said: Lets take a look at the stats of the Vikings' first round quarterbacks:

Tommy Kramer: QB Rate: 72.8, TD-INT: 159-158
Daunte Culpepper: 63% comp, QB Rate: 87.8, TD-INT: 149-106
Christian Ponder: 59.8% comp, QB Rate: 75.9, TD-INT: 38-36
Teddy Bridgewater: 66% comp, QB Rate 90.2, TD-INT: 47-31

All of them took us to the playoffs in at least one season. Krammer and Culpepper had Pro-Bowl years, but the Vikings mostly had a lot of mediocre years with all of our first round QB if you look at the win/lose column.

Trading up will cost us at least a first round pick in 2021 and 2022... and that is only to move up to get Fields or Lance (the Trevor Lawrence price is probably way off the charts).

Look, the Vikings are stuck with Kirk Cousins for the next two seasons, so pick the best QB available when the Vikings are on the clock (in rounds 1-3) and groom him behind Cousins. Right now the Vikings are a run oriented team featuring Davlin Cook. We can win with a game manager type! Why trade up into the top five to get a QB that is only going to hand the ball off?

A good QB will fall to the Vikings at some point. There are more than 3 QB in the draft, and come April this class might feature as many as 5 or 6 first round QBs.

because DC is not a player to build a superbowl run around,  his durability issues make him unreliable.  you build your offense around the passing game and if the run game is there and working great.

the point isnt to just win,  its  to build a team that can beat the Chiefs, or whoever is representing the AFC when we get there.  game managers can only do that if you have a stiffling defense and even then the league has taken so much away from the D that its not nearly as likely that a D first approach could even still be successful.

I dont know how we can have this conversation without first determining who's the GM and HC going to be?

And not knowing if we're 4 wins or 7?

I will say that if they have strong conviction on a QB? Go for it and hope you're convicted over a Mahomes and not a Trubisky. 

I have faith Rick will find the next Christian Ponder this next draft.

@"comet52" said: I have faith Rick will find the next Christian Ponder this next draft.

he very well may,  but as long as he doesnt use draft assets to move up for the 3rd guy on his list,  if he's moving up it better be because there is value at where a player is at and that player wont make it to our selection,  not because he is afraid to lose out on a position.

@"medaille" said: There’s a fair number of quality QBs drafted 10th or later.

Mahomes, Watson, Jackson, Wilson, Rodgers, Brees

These guys come to mind immediately.  I think it’s more about taking a shot on a
guy when you have a chance, than it is about blowing your load for the guys at
the top of the draft rankings on the one year you NEED a qb.  The chance of drafting
a SB caliber QB is not good regardless of where they are drafted, you just have
to be prepared to be persistent.

That said, the Chiefs saw their opportunity and traded from
27th to 10th to get Mahomes, and they gave up a 3rd
and next years 1st, which was clearly worth it.

honestly this is the model I want the Vikings to Emulate.  there is always a guy who will fall for some reason like Mahommes and Watson.  

Remember the Chiefs had Kirk Cousins only his name was Alex Smith.  They moved up when they saw thier guy fall and didnt even start Mahommes the next year then traded Smith. Target a guy and move up for him.  Keep cousins to start the next year then trade him.

The Chiefs gave up a lot and not one Chiefs fan thinks they should have kept those picks.

Beware.........Don't let THIS happen to you

BTW we talk about mortgaging the future by giving away so many picks.  The reality is in this league if you do not have a young mobile accurate QB you dont have much of a future in the modern NFL.

@"PSBLAKE" said:

@"medaille" said: There’s a fair number of quality QBs drafted 10th or later.

Mahomes, Watson, Jackson, Wilson, Rodgers, Brees

These guys come to mind immediately.  I think it’s more about taking a shot on a
guy when you have a chance, than it is about blowing your load for the guys at
the top of the draft rankings on the one year you NEED a qb.  The chance of drafting
a SB caliber QB is not good regardless of where they are drafted, you just have
to be prepared to be persistent.

That said, the Chiefs saw their opportunity and traded from
27th to 10th to get Mahomes, and they gave up a 3rd
and next years 1st, which was clearly worth it.

honestly this is the model I want the Vikings to Emulate.  there is always a guy who will fall for some reason like Mahommes and Watson.  

Remember the Chiefs had Kirk Cousins only his name was Alex Smith.  They moved up when they saw thier guy fall and didnt even start Mahommes the next year then traded Smith. Target a guy and move up for him.  Keep cousins to start the next year then trade him.

The Chiefs gave up a lot and not one Chiefs fan thinks they should have kept those picks.

@"JimmyinSD" said:

Who is going to trade for  an aging immobile mediocre QB on the last year of his deal that pays 35 million?  

@"JimmyinSD" said:

@"PSBLAKE" said:

@"medaille" said: There’s a fair number of quality QBs drafted 10th or later.

Mahomes, Watson, Jackson, Wilson, Rodgers, Brees

These guys come to mind immediately.  I think it’s more about taking a shot on a
guy when you have a chance, than it is about blowing your load for the guys at
the top of the draft rankings on the one year you NEED a qb.  The chance of drafting
a SB caliber QB is not good regardless of where they are drafted, you just have
to be prepared to be persistent.

That said, the Chiefs saw their opportunity and traded from
27th to 10th to get Mahomes, and they gave up a 3rd
and next years 1st, which was clearly worth it.

honestly this is the model I want the Vikings to Emulate.  there is always a guy who will fall for some reason like Mahommes and Watson.  

Remember the Chiefs had Kirk Cousins only his name was Alex Smith.  They moved up when they saw thier guy fall and didnt even start Mahommes the next year then traded Smith. Target a guy and move up for him.  Keep cousins to start the next year then trade him.

The Chiefs gave up a lot and not one Chiefs fan thinks they should have kept those picks.

Who is going to trade for  an aging immobile mediocre QB on the last year of his deal that pays 35 million?  A team would be stupid to give up anything of value without the promise of an extension amd Cousins would be stupid to agree to an extension when he could play it out and be a FA or not negotiate and be a FA right away with that 35million in his pocket.  The time to cut ties with him is as soon as this season is over.

@"PSBLAKE" said:

@"JimmyinSD" said:

@"PSBLAKE" said:

@"medaille" said: There’s a fair number of quality QBs drafted 10th or later.

Mahomes, Watson, Jackson, Wilson, Rodgers, Brees

These guys come to mind immediately.  I think it’s more about taking a shot on a
guy when you have a chance, than it is about blowing your load for the guys at
the top of the draft rankings on the one year you NEED a qb.  The chance of drafting
a SB caliber QB is not good regardless of where they are drafted, you just have
to be prepared to be persistent.

That said, the Chiefs saw their opportunity and traded from
27th to 10th to get Mahomes, and they gave up a 3rd
and next years 1st, which was clearly worth it.

honestly this is the model I want the Vikings to Emulate.  there is always a guy who will fall for some reason like Mahommes and Watson.  

Remember the Chiefs had Kirk Cousins only his name was Alex Smith.  They moved up when they saw thier guy fall and didnt even start Mahommes the next year then traded Smith. Target a guy and move up for him.  Keep cousins to start the next year then trade him.

The Chiefs gave up a lot and not one Chiefs fan thinks they should have kept those picks.

Who is going to trade for  an aging immobile mediocre QB on the last year of his deal that pays 35 million?  A team would be stupid to give up anything of value without the promise of an extension amd Cousins would be stupid to agree to an extension when he could play it out and be a FA or not negotiate and be a FA right away with that 35million in his pocket.  The time to cut ties with him is as soon as this season is over.

the redskins did that trade for Smith.  if we cant trade him cut Cousins

@Jimmyin SD said:
because DC is not a player to build a superbowl run around,  his durability issues make him unreliable.  you build your offense around the passing game and if the run game is there and working great.

the point isnt to just win,  its  to build a team that can beat the Chiefs, or whoever is representing the AFC when we get there.  game managers can only do that if you have a stiffling defense and even then the league has taken so much away from the D that its not nearly as likely that a D first approach could even still be successful.

I agree, but throwing the football is NOT the philosophy of this front office and coaching staff.

The original question is how do the Vikings move up to draft a QB? 

If the Vikings win a few more games down the stretch, then the GM and head coach are probably safe. In that scenario, I believe trading up for a QB is just a pipe dream.

As much as I would love to see the Vikings draft a top 3 QB and implement a more modern offensive philosophy,... I just don't see it happening unless the wheels come completely off.

So, unless we have a change at head coach or GM, the only way to draft a top 3 QB is if one falls or if the Vikings completely fall apart.

How do we trade up? We won't.
Unfortunately, Fans/Front Office/Ownership will say shucks, it didn't work out, and won't pick a QB in round 1. We'll either convince ourselves a later guy can be good, or we'll punt the position until 2022 altogether.
I can't bring myself to root for the team to lose, but missing out on an elite QB is gonna hurt.
@PSBLAKE is right. "Mortgaging the future" by trading up sucks. But it's better than having no future, which is what not having an elite QB all but guarantees.
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15 of the last 17 SB winners have had HOF QBs (yes, Eli will get in). I don't care how we get a franchise QB, but until we have one, our odds are extremely slim to get to that magical land we all wanna go to.

Be careful about what you wish for. A top 5 pick at QB is not always the prerequisite for a Super Bowl.

Over the last 35 years here are the guys who have won a Super Bowl after being selected in the top 5 picks:
Drew Bledsoe, John Elway, Troy Aikman, Payton Manning, and Eli Manning... that's all folks.

Here are the Super Bowl winners out side the top 5 picks:
Trent Dilfer #6, Phil Simms #7, Patrick Mahomes #10, Ben Rothlesberger #11, Doug Williams #17, Joe Flacco #18, Aaron Rodgers #24, Drew Brees #32, Brett Farve #33, Jeff Hostetler #59, Russell Wilson #75,  Joe Montana #83, Nick Foles #88, Mark Rypien #146, Tom Brady #199, Brad Johnson #227, Steve Young USFL, and Kurt Warner undrafted.

Here are the top 5 QB who have NOT won the Superbowl over the last 30 years:
Joe Burrow, Tua Tagovailoa, Kyler Murry, Baker Mayfield, Sam Darnold, Mitch Trubisky, Jared Goff, Carson Wentz, Jamis Winston, Marcus Mariota, Blake Bortles, Andrew Luck, Robert Griffin, Cam Newton, Sam Bradford, Matthew Stafford, Mark Sanchez, Matt Ryan, Jamarcus Russell, Vince Young, Alex Smith, Phillip Rivers, Carson Palmer, David Carr, Joey Harrington, Micheal Vick, Tim Couch, Donovan McNabb, Aki Smith, Ryan Leaf, Steve McNair, Kerry Collins, Heath Shuler, and Jeff George.

Some franchise QBs and some busts in the top 5 picks. My point to the fans who want to trade it all to move up into the top 5 picks... no super bowl wins since Eli Manning.

I wouldn't trade up either with picks. But I would with a player. I know that a known commodity is more valuable than a pick, hence the reason trading a player would net more to allow you to move up higher. But I only do that for my fav guy, not my 2nd/3rd option.

 I think I could be happy with staying at pick 12-15 and taking Zach Wilson instead of trading anything to move up for Fields/Lance. I don't see a way to get to the #1 pick for Lawrence with us likely winning 4-5 games