BREAKING: Vikings open to trade Harrison Smith, Rudolph and Reiff

@"Skodin" said:

Harry for a late 2nd Rudy for a 5th Reiff for a 4th  Adam for . . not for your life.  Unless you are getting a 1st AND another pick, you keep Adam until we bury him in Purple. End of story. This team moves on from these 4 because of Kirk Fucking Cousins and Spielman, fuck this franchise

Double thumbs up Skodin!  Don't want Speilman or Zimmer controlling our future drafts or any future decisions after this season.  Actually, can their ass now...

I don't see a sell off because other teams are looking for bargains compensation wise....and Minnesota wants good value. I don't think they'll get it so no deal. But if its a salary dump, then maybe. 

@"StickyBun" said: I don't see a sell off because other teams are looking for bargains compensation wise....and Minnesota wants good value. I don't think they'll get it so no deal. But if its a salary dump, then maybe. 

It's got to be both,  we know they are well over the cap so they are going to have to dump a bunch of salary,  and at the same time they need more draft ammo to ensure that this rebuild is as short of a process as possible so its a sell off.  

@"Skodin" said:

Harry for a late 2nd Rudy for a 5th Reiff for a 4th  Adam for . . not for your life.  Unless you are getting a 1st AND another pick, you keep Adam until we bury him in Purple. End of story.

None of those players would bring the picks you're suggesting. Every one of them is over 30 and every one of the has a big contract. Players like that don't draw valuable picks in return. What's more, everyone knows the Vikings are dumping salary, which lessens their value even more. Remember, it's happened in the NFL where a team trades a player AND a pick in order to get a team to take on his contract. That won't happen with these guys, but they're certainly not going to draw picks like that in return. And you're not getting a 1st for Adam either. 

We're $3M Over right now in 2021
Barr, Reiff, Rudolph seem like no brainers.
Kirk Cousins has that contract clause that guarantees his 2022 $35M base salary if he's on the team in 2021, but we'd eat $41M in 2021, so ...

Cap Hits - 2021, Cap Savings if Cut
Cousins - $31,   -$10
Hunter - $17,   $6
Barr - $15,   $7
Reiff - $14,   $12
Thielen - $13.5,   $8
Kendricks - $12.5,   $2.5
Smith - $10,   $10
Rudolph - $9.5,   $5
Cook - $5.2,   -$7
Stephen - $5,   $4
Pierce - $5,   -$4

@"MaroonBells" said:

@"Skodin" said:

Harry for a late 2nd Rudy for a 5th Reiff for a 4th  Adam for . . not for your life.  Unless you are getting a 1st AND another pick, you keep Adam until we bury him in Purple. End of story.

None of those players would bring the picks you're suggesting. Every one of them is over 30 and every one of the has a big contract. Players like that don't draw valuable picks in return. What's more, everyone knows the Vikings are dumping salary, which lessens their value even more. Remember, it's happened in the NFL where a team trades a player AND a pick in order to get a team to take on his contract. That won't happen with these guys, but they're certainly not going to draw picks like that in return. And you're not getting a 1st for Adam either. 

I'm hoping the front office can break that nasty trend of always trading back in the draft.  Hopefully, they stockpile lots of draft picks and start trading up for quality starters...As it looks, this will be a 2 to 3 year project anyways.

@"medaille" said:

We're $3M Over right now in 2021 Barr, Reiff, Rudolph seem like no brainers. Kirk Cousins has that contract clause that guarantees his 2022 $35M base salary if he's on the team in 2021, but we'd eat $41M in 2021, so ...

Cap Hits - 2021, Cap Savings if Cut
Cousins - $31,   -$10
Hunter - $17,   $6
Barr - $15,   $7
Reiff - $14,   $12
Thielen - $13.5,   $8
Kendricks - $12.5,   $2.5
Smith - $10,   $10
Rudolph - $9.5,   $5
Cook - $5.2,   -$7
Stephen - $5,   $4
Pierce - $5,   -$4

Over the Cap has the Vikings at 8.7 million over for 2021, Spotrac has us about 5 million over,  either way we need to do some serious work.

as far as Cousins goes,  we can cut him after the year with a June 1st designation which will then leave that addional 10 million of prorated bonus on 2022 instead of accelerating it into next years cap,  so 31 million in 2021 and 10 in 2022... so we got that going for us.

@"JimmyinSD" said:

@"medaille" said:

We're $3M Over right now in 2021 Barr, Reiff, Rudolph seem like no brainers. Kirk Cousins has that contract clause that guarantees his 2022 $35M base salary if he's on the team in 2021, but we'd eat $41M in 2021, so ...

Cap Hits - 2021, Cap Savings if Cut
Cousins - $31,   -$10
Hunter - $17,   $6
Barr - $15,   $7
Reiff - $14,   $12
Thielen - $13.5,   $8
Kendricks - $12.5,   $2.5
Smith - $10,   $10
Rudolph - $9.5,   $5
Cook - $5.2,   -$7
Stephen - $5,   $4
Pierce - $5,   -$4

Over the Cap has the Vikings at 8.7 million over for 2021, Spotrac has us about 5 million over,  either way we need to do some serious work.

as far as Cousins goes,  we can cut him after the year with a June 1st designation which will then leave that addional 10 million of prorated bonus on 2022 instead of accelerating it into next years cap,  so 31 million in 2021 and 10 in 2022... so we got that going for us.

@"MarkSP18" said:

@"JimmyinSD" said:

@"medaille" said:

We're $3M Over right now in 2021 Barr, Reiff, Rudolph seem like no brainers. Kirk Cousins has that contract clause that guarantees his 2022 $35M base salary if he's on the team in 2021, but we'd eat $41M in 2021, so ...

Cap Hits - 2021, Cap Savings if Cut
Cousins - $31,   -$10
Hunter - $17,   $6
Barr - $15,   $7
Reiff - $14,   $12
Thielen - $13.5,   $8
Kendricks - $12.5,   $2.5
Smith - $10,   $10
Rudolph - $9.5,   $5
Cook - $5.2,   -$7
Stephen - $5,   $4
Pierce - $5,   -$4

Over the Cap has the Vikings at 8.7 million over for 2021, Spotrac has us about 5 million over,  either way we need to do some serious work.

as far as Cousins goes,  we can cut him after the year with a June 1st designation which will then leave that addional 10 million of prorated bonus on 2022 instead of accelerating it into next years cap,  so 31 million in 2021 and 10 in 2022... so we got that going for us.

overthecap initially had the cap number for 2021 at 215 mil.

Now the number is down to 176 mil because the league and the players union agreed to a floor of 176 mil.  But they are negotiating still.

Considering the TV contracts are coming up for renewal by 2022, that money is what drove that initial 215 mil number.

I expect that the two sides will reach an agreement where the cap stays at 198.2 mil for at least two seasons.

If you subtract the 198 from the 215 you get 17 mil per team saved in 2021.

overthecap has the 2022 number at 227.5  mil.  If you subtract the 198 from the 227 you get 29 mil per team saved.

In two years they can save 46 mil per team which is about 1.47 billion.

I could see them keeping the cap at 198 for another season too.

They are smarter than me so they will figure out how to smooth it out over 5 or more seasons.

There are too many teams way over the cap next year to lower it to 176 mil.

Having said all that, the two players most likely not to return for sure are Reiff and Stephen.

I’m fine with all three going. Id take anything for Rudolph and Reiff. A 7th is not to low. Harrison Smith I have a soft spot for. Itd be nice to get a 3rd-ish?  Itd be tough seeing him go for a 5th or 6th. 

The real question is can we trade those and use to picks to get someone to take Cousins off our hands. He’s not good with veterans helpping him. Can you imagine what itll look like without?

Also, unless there is word from up top to do so, Slick Rick and Zimmer dont trade the veterans if they think their jobs are on the line at the end of the year. 

@"JimmyinSD" said:

@"MarkSP18" said:

@"JimmyinSD" said:

@"medaille" said:

We're $3M Over right now in 2021 Barr, Reiff, Rudolph seem like no brainers. Kirk Cousins has that contract clause that guarantees his 2022 $35M base salary if he's on the team in 2021, but we'd eat $41M in 2021, so ...

Cap Hits - 2021, Cap Savings if Cut
Cousins - $31,   -$10
Hunter - $17,   $6
Barr - $15,   $7
Reiff - $14,   $12
Thielen - $13.5,   $8
Kendricks - $12.5,   $2.5
Smith - $10,   $10
Rudolph - $9.5,   $5
Cook - $5.2,   -$7
Stephen - $5,   $4
Pierce - $5,   -$4

Over the Cap has the Vikings at 8.7 million over for 2021, Spotrac has us about 5 million over,  either way we need to do some serious work.

as far as Cousins goes,  we can cut him after the year with a June 1st designation which will then leave that addional 10 million of prorated bonus on 2022 instead of accelerating it into next years cap,  so 31 million in 2021 and 10 in 2022... so we got that going for us.

overthecap initially had the cap number for 2021 at 215 mil.

Now the number is down to 176 mil because the league and the players union agreed to a floor of 176 mil.  But they are negotiating still.

Considering the TV contracts are coming up for renewal by 2022, that money is what drove that initial 215 mil number.

I expect that the two sides will reach an agreement where the cap stays at 198.2 mil for at least two seasons.

If you subtract the 198 from the 215 you get 17 mil per team saved in 2021.

overthecap has the 2022 number at 227.5  mil.  If you subtract the 198 from the 227 you get 29 mil per team saved.

In two years they can save 46 mil per team which is about 1.47 billion.

I could see them keeping the cap at 198 for another season too.

They are smarter than me so they will figure out how to smooth it out over 5 or more seasons.

There are too many teams way over the cap next year to lower it to 176 mil.

Having said all that, the two players most likely not to return for sure are Reiff and Stephen.

I have been seeing that 176 million number from several sources lately.  I am assuming that after this year and the revenues being in the toilet,  they will have to lower it or the owners might not make it through the winter.

I think the only asset we have left that is movable for value would be Reiff and he has been our best lineman this year and deserves a raise really.  Of course you cant do it with shittons of money tied up elsewhere.

Unfortunately Cousins has finally proven beyond a reasonable doubt that he cannot carry a team in this current NFL. He is now a big ass anchor to us moving forward.  

To me, Harry should be resigned to a long term deal and retire in purple. He reminds me alot of Rod Woodsen who played well through mid thirties.  Harris can go somewhere else

At some point we need to stick in Udoh and Metellus and Dye and Wonnum and the DT from Arkansas and stop with all the draft capital in CB’s and WR’s FFS.  Build from the inside out. Many of us have said it but old Meathead Tice is still right, always pick the big guy and draft a QB every effing year or 2 at least if you have to to find the next Wilson or Lamar Jackson. 

So goddamn frustrating.  I have been a big fan of Zimmer's but this season is pushing me to the breaking point.  I am actively rooting for them to lose now in order to get Lawrence, although I don't see how the Jets can possibly win a game this year.

Having a complete garbage O-line for 10 years, signing/extending Cousins and never having a young, promising QB on the roster as a future option all falls on Rick though.

While I'm at it, continually moving the goddamn O linemen around like it's musical chairs and then wondering why they never develop really pisses me off as well.  Now we are doing it again this year and potentially ruining our 2nd round pick this year in Ezra Cleveland.

I like Rudolph but he has been overpaid for years.

Regardless, until we finally get a goddamn decent franchise QB on this team, we don't have a chance in hell.  Draft 1 or 2 QBs every single year until you hit paydirt, and then draft 1 each year afterwards to keep the pipeline stocked.  Imagine being a Packers fan and having 30 consecutive years of a HOF QB leading your team.  Fuckers.

**Rant over**

@"SFVikingFan" said: While I'm at it, continually moving the goddamn O linemen around like it's musical chairs and then wondering why they never develop really pisses me off as well.  Now we are doing it again this year and potentially ruining our 2nd round pick this year in Ezra Cleveland.

I like Rudolph but he has been overpaid for years.

Regardless, until we finally get a goddamn decent franchise QB on this team, we don't have a chance in hell.  Draft 1 or 2 QBs every single year until you hit paydirt, and then draft 1 each year afterwards to keep the pipeline stocked.  Imagine being a Packers fan and having 30 consecutive years of a HOF QB leading your team.  Fuckers.

**Rant over**

I feel like i've read that somewhere before.... B)

@"JimmyinSD" said:

@"SFVikingFan" said: While I'm at it, continually moving the goddamn O linemen around like it's musical chairs and then wondering why they never develop really pisses me off as well.  Now we are doing it again this year and potentially ruining our 2nd round pick this year in Ezra Cleveland.

I like Rudolph but he has been overpaid for years.

Regardless, until we finally get a goddamn decent franchise QB on this team, we don't have a chance in hell.  Draft 1 or 2 QBs every single year until you hit paydirt, and then draft 1 each year afterwards to keep the pipeline stocked.  Imagine being a Packers fan and having 30 consecutive years of a HOF QB leading your team.  Fuckers.

**Rant over**

I feel like i've read that somewhere before.... B)

@"SFVikingFan" said:

@"JimmyinSD" said:

@"SFVikingFan" said: While I'm at it, continually moving the goddamn O linemen around like it's musical chairs and then wondering why they never develop really pisses me off as well.  Now we are doing it again this year and potentially ruining our 2nd round pick this year in Ezra Cleveland.

I like Rudolph but he has been overpaid for years.

Regardless, until we finally get a goddamn decent franchise QB on this team, we don't have a chance in hell.  Draft 1 or 2 QBs every single year until you hit paydirt, and then draft 1 each year afterwards to keep the pipeline stocked.  Imagine being a Packers fan and having 30 consecutive years of a HOF QB leading your team.  Fuckers.

**Rant over**

I feel like i've read that somewhere before.... B)

Hey Jimmy, I've gone back to school full-time so I've been absent for a while but if you've been posting that, I definitely agree!  :)  I've been screaming about QB and O-line for years.  Without those two, nothing else really matters.  So frustrating to see such obvious deficiencies all coming home to roost now.  Along with what I will say is bad luck trying to completely revamp your defense this year and then having COVID hit and cancelling pretty much everything up until training camp.

@"JimmyinSD" said:

@"SFVikingFan" said:

@"JimmyinSD" said:

@"SFVikingFan" said: While I'm at it, continually moving the goddamn O linemen around like it's musical chairs and then wondering why they never develop really pisses me off as well.  Now we are doing it again this year and potentially ruining our 2nd round pick this year in Ezra Cleveland.

I like Rudolph but he has been overpaid for years.

Regardless, until we finally get a goddamn decent franchise QB on this team, we don't have a chance in hell.  Draft 1 or 2 QBs every single year until you hit paydirt, and then draft 1 each year afterwards to keep the pipeline stocked.  Imagine being a Packers fan and having 30 consecutive years of a HOF QB leading your team.  Fuckers.

**Rant over**

I feel like i've read that somewhere before.... B)

Hey Jimmy, I've gone back to school full-time so I've been absent for a while but if you've been posting that, I definitely agree!  :)  I've been screaming about QB and O-line for years.  Without those two, nothing else really matters.  So frustrating to see such obvious deficiencies all coming home to roost now.  Along with what I will say is bad luck trying to completely revamp your defense this year and then having COVID hit and cancelling pretty much everything up until training camp.

good for you!   i have said forever that we need to focus on OL an DL and then keep QBs on their rookie deals to control costs until we really hit on a guy to good to let walk (like a Brady or Favre type of player.) I would trade them before their final year so that we get the first rounders that come from trading starting QBs instead of letting them walk and only getting a third round pick in return.

@"Jor-El" said:

@"JimmyinSD" said:

@"SFVikingFan" said:

@"JimmyinSD" said:

@"SFVikingFan" said: While I'm at it, continually moving the goddamn O linemen around like it's musical chairs and then wondering why they never develop really pisses me off as well.  Now we are doing it again this year and potentially ruining our 2nd round pick this year in Ezra Cleveland.

I like Rudolph but he has been overpaid for years.

Regardless, until we finally get a goddamn decent franchise QB on this team, we don't have a chance in hell.  Draft 1 or 2 QBs every single year until you hit paydirt, and then draft 1 each year afterwards to keep the pipeline stocked.  Imagine being a Packers fan and having 30 consecutive years of a HOF QB leading your team.  Fuckers.

**Rant over**

I feel like i've read that somewhere before.... B)

Hey Jimmy, I've gone back to school full-time so I've been absent for a while but if you've been posting that, I definitely agree!  :)  I've been screaming about QB and O-line for years.  Without those two, nothing else really matters.  So frustrating to see such obvious deficiencies all coming home to roost now.  Along with what I will say is bad luck trying to completely revamp your defense this year and then having COVID hit and cancelling pretty much everything up until training camp.

good for you!   i have said forever that we need to focus on OL an DL and then keep QBs on their rookie deals to control costs until we really hit on a guy to good to let walk (like a Brady or Favre type of player.) I would trade them before their final year so that we get the first rounders that come from trading starting QBs instead of letting them walk and only getting a third round pick in return.

It's a good idea but it's dependent on drafting and developing at least a STARTING quarterback. You might have thought a team could turn the #12 overall pick into a competent above-average starter worth trading to someone, but we failed doubly with Ponder:1. We didn't pick the most talented QB available. Whatever you feel about Kaepernick's off-field actions, he had far more ability than Ponder. So did Andy Dalton.2. We didn't develop Ponder. Seriously, did he look lost in 2012? No, he was developing decently for a 2nd-year QB, and his physical skills were up to the task. Of course he had a RB on an amazing season taking the heat off and his OL was probably better than any the Vikings have fielded since. But within 2 years he was a lost cause, so shattered that no coach could fix his deer-in-headlights issue. I'm still surprised he couldn't become an adequate NFL backup for a decade.

So even if you pick some decent QB prospects (for which Spielman has no positive track record), you have to develop them, and how do you do that with a head coach who doesn't like the passing game, a different offensive coordinator every season, and the worst offensive line in the league?
Many people assume Bridgewater would have become a great QB here if he had not been injured. Maybe - but maybe in 2016 he would have been confused by the tension of having 2 de facto Offensive coordinators (Turner and Shurmur), one of them quitting, and an offensive line that was changing players multiple times a game.  Ponder regressed in Minnesota, I think Cousins has regressed since coming here...why wouldn't Bridgewater?
Even if we lucked into Trevor Lawrence, if we keep Spielman (who won't invest in the OL) and Zimmer (who isn't supportive of his QBs and blows up offensive coordinators), in 3 years Lawrence will just be the next Jameis Winston.