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Misc. Thoughts: Packers

VikingOracle
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I had to watch the game recorded (my daughter had an event during the game) so I watched it quickly -- like pulling a bandaid off a scab.  So, my thoughts are minimal.

  • Coaching:    Yesterday on the radio, I heard a commentator talk about how the first game in this particular season really expose who are the good coaches and who are the bad coaches (he was talking about the Jets).  But, I think it is true.  I think the Vikings got totally outcoached.  To me, the defense looked very vanilla.  And, for a team built around the run, the Vikes constantly lose the time of possession battle.
  • Groundhog Day:  Correct me if I am wrong, but didn't the offense and defense feel like groundhog day?  Too often over the past couple of years have the defense come into a game and seemed totally unprepared at the start and give up a ton of yards in the first quarter.  Sometimes they right the ship, but it feels like the defense never starts a game strong.  Offense is the polar opposite.  I have seen a number of games which starts with a great first drive only to quickly fizzle out.  It is especially disappointing for the defense to start slow game after game.
  • Griffen:  I know the Vikes couldn't keep Griffen at his contract price and that he was aging out.  However, if you look back to the 2018 season and his "leave," it is clear to me that he was the heart and soul fo the defense.  Among a group of leveled head, veteran players, he was the fire and the leader.  It doesn't feel like a player has stepped up to fill those shoes.  I really think losing Griffen was the biggest loss during the offseason.
  • Barr.  Pro bowls or not, I think Barr is the most overrated and overpaid Viking defender in my recent memory (except for Rhodes falling totally off the table).  He is paid to be an impact player.
  • Interior Line.  I am afraid I can write the same thing every week about both the o and d interior line -- they are just not worthy of a playoff caliber team.
  • DBs.   Yes, they got burnt but they got burnt by one of the best QBs who had an extremely clean pocket.  I thought generally, they were in good position given the circumstances.  With even a little turbulence in the pocket, I thought they could have made some plays.
  • Sharpe:  I am sorry but if I am going to have a wr play one play in a game and it is a go route, I would rather have Hollins playing than Sharpe.
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#1 · Sep 15, 9:04 AM
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VO, i had alot of similar thoughts. I have struggled to be my usual homer self this week and that is strange.  Most of this because my faith level in Z and Kubes dropped a little and i am HUGE fans of them both. 

I wish i had the tape, but my impressions were that we played too much single high and shoild have gone cover 2 and 4 all day with Kendriks and Barr getting some depth. to keep everything in front of us. that lets us rush 4 and an occasional 5. 

Kubes terribly disappointed me with the play call on the safety. double 9 routes 7 step PA with back to the line. He wanted to take a shot but you dont take shots from 7 deep in your iwn end zone. The 3 and out on the next series was the end of our half. The defense was shot and Rodgers hadnt broken a sweat. 

All that said, our supposed studs did not execute or win enough. BARR, Oneill, Harris, Cousins( one real bad int from a clean pocket)  I give Nguoke a pass as he hasnt had any camp. 

GB is a real good team also and give them credit, and our best player was out.  but i was hoping for 11-5 and I cant see that right now at all. 

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#2 · Sep 15, 10:01 AM
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@"VikingOracle" said: I had to watch the game recorded (my daughter had an event during the game) so I watched it quickly -- like pulling a bandaid off a scab.  So, my thoughts are minimal.
  • Coaching:    Yesterday on the radio, I heard a commentator talk about how the first game in this particular season really expose who are the good coaches and who are the bad coaches (he was talking about the Jets).  But, I think it is true.  I think the Vikings got totally outcoached.  To me, the defense looked very vanilla.  And, for a team built around the run, the Vikes constantly lose the time of possession battle.
  • Groundhog Day:  Correct me if I am wrong, but didn't the offense and defense feel like groundhog day?  Too often over the past couple of years have the defense come into a game and seemed totally unprepared at the start and give up a ton of yards in the first quarter.  Sometimes they right the ship, but it feels like the defense never starts a game strong.  Offense is the polar opposite.  I have seen a number of games which starts with a great first drive only to quickly fizzle out.  It is especially disappointing for the defense to start slow game after game.
  • Griffen:  I know the Vikes couldn't keep Griffen at his contract price and that he was aging out.  However, if you look back to the 2018 season and his "leave," it is clear to me that he was the heart and soul fo the defense.  Among a group of leveled head, veteran players, he was the fire and the leader.  It doesn't feel like a player has stepped up to fill those shoes.  I really think losing Griffen was the biggest loss during the offseason.
  • Barr.  Pro bowls or not, I think Barr is the most overrated and overpaid Viking defender in my recent memory (except for Rhodes falling totally off the table).  He is paid to be an impact player.
  • Interior Line.  I am afraid I can write the same thing every week about both the o and d interior line -- they are just not worthy of a playoff caliber team.
  • DBs.   Yes, they got burnt but they got burnt by one of the best QBs who had an extremely clean pocket.  I thought generally, they were in good position given the circumstances.  With even a little turbulence in the pocket, I thought they could have made some plays.
  • Sharpe:  I am sorry but if I am going to have a wr play one play in a game and it is a go route, I would rather have Hollins playing than Sharpe.


    Week #1 was like divisional playoffs, Vikes don't have the bodies.

Watching  SF,KC, BALT, SEA,. burst my purple bubble

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#3 · Sep 15, 10:13 AM
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I said yesterday that I really think the "Baby Backs" will improve as the season progresses. A perfect example of the lack of the preseason games hurting a team. Totally agree on Barr, I have never been a fan of his, disappears way too often.  Also, think you're onto something regarding Griffen, even though I think Kendricks is the defense's leader he's definitely not the fiery type. Coaching, I'm kind of hot and cold...sometimes I like them, sometimes I don"t. 

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#4 · Sep 15, 11:47 AM
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Good summary. Barr is really getting very "Groundhog Day". Zimmer used to tell everyone that Barr was doing things that "don't show up in stats" - invisible GOOD things. Well, he can get away with that when the team is winning and if the defense is effective...but when they don't, is he doing invisible BAD things?

I think Zimmer scouted Barr for his first draft here and saw an athletic phenom who ran a 4.66 at 255 pounds and moved like he was a safety, and invented all kinds of coverage plans for that athlete. Well, that was Barr in 2014 and I'm not sure he is the same athlete in 2020, but Zimmer keeps using him in the same ways.

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#5 · Sep 15, 1:27 PM
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See what happens on this play? Kirk gets time. When he has a clean pocket, there isn't a better QB in the league. That's not an opinion. That's fact. #1 in the NFL when given time. What would happen if we gave him time more often? 

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#6 · Sep 17, 6:55 AM
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@"MaroonBells" said: See what happens on this play? Kirk gets time. When he has a clean pocket, there isn't a better QB in the league. That's not an opinion. That's fact. #1 in the NFL when given time. What would happen if we gave him time more often? 

https://tw


Have we screwed the pooch on this window already? Now the D has clearly taken a step back and the offense with that OL is probably not strong enough to consistently win 31/28 or 24/27

Maybe we should have placed more cap and resource emphasis on signing some good FA OL over the last 3-5 years? This organization is average at best in drafting and developing OL. So FA should have been an option they looked more closely at. 

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#7 · Sep 17, 8:03 AM
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@"purplefaithful" said:
@"MaroonBells" said: See what happens on this play? Kirk gets time. When he has a clean pocket, there isn't a better QB in the league. That's not an opinion. That's fact. #1 in the NFL when given time. What would happen if we gave him time more often? 

https://tw


Have we screwed the pooch on this window already? Now the D has clearly taken a step back and the offense with that OL is probably not strong enough to consistently win 31/28 or 24/27



Not sure about screwing the pooch, but the window may have closed temporarily. If this is a 6 or 7 win team, they may as well be a 3 or 4 win team because I think in 2021 they could be significantly better and get a QB for the future to boot. I like Cousins and when he has time, he's gold. But D-lineman are too athletic today and pressure is part of the game. A new breed of QB is needed, more mobile. 

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#8 · Sep 17, 8:08 AM
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@"MaroonBells" said: See what happens on this play? Kirk gets time. When he has a clean pocket, there isn't a better QB in the league. That's not an opinion. That's fact. #1 in the NFL when given time. What would happen if we gave him time more often? 

https://twitter.com/MattAndersonNFL/status/1306570693644103680?s=20


Kirk had a clean pocket on the interception before the half, which turned the game around.  QBs have to be able to read a defense pre-snap (he has to be the worst I have ever seen, which was evident on the safety) and a QB has to be able to perform under pressure, have a feel of the defensive pressure and be able to slide in the pocket, which he seems to have very little ability to do.  Kirk can do it, he did a great job of it on the first drive, but that was one of the few times you have ever seen him move to avoid a rush.  There have been QBs like Roethlisberger who will never be compared with Lamar Jackson or Mahomes, but they make up for a lack of speed with a great sense to be able to avoid defenders in the pocket.  With all of the amazing talent on the defensive side of the ball and all of the great schemes, you can't expect the OL to keep a clean pocket most plays, the QB needs to help them out.  When Keenum was here, no one ever complained about the OL, yet he was under pressure consistently. 

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#9 · Sep 17, 8:09 AM
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@"purplefaithful" said:
@"MaroonBells" said: See what happens on this play? Kirk gets time. When he has a clean pocket, there isn't a better QB in the league. That's not an opinion. That's fact. #1 in the NFL when given time. What would happen if we gave him time more often? 

https://tw


Have we screwed the pooch on this window already? Now the D has clearly taken a step back and the offense with that OL is probably not strong enough to consistently win 31/28 or 24/27

Maybe we should have placed more cap and resource emphasis on signing some good FA OL over the last 3-5 years? This organization is average at best in drafting and developing OL. So FA should have been an option they looked more closely at. 



Hre's one encouraging sign...

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#10 · Sep 17, 9:05 AM
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@"MaroonBells" said:
@"purplefaithful" said:
@"MaroonBells" said: See what happens on this play? Kirk gets time. When he has a clean pocket, there isn't a better QB in the league. That's not an opinion. That's fact. #1 in the NFL when given time. What would happen if we gave him time more often? 

https://tw


Have we screwed the pooch on this window already? Now the D has clearly taken a step back and the offense with that OL is probably not strong enough to consistently win 31/28 or 24/27

Maybe we should have placed more cap and resource emphasis on signing some good FA OL over the last 3-5 years? This organization is average at best in drafting and developing OL. So FA should have been an option they looked more closely at. 



Hre's one encouraging sign...



Our OL graded out well. safeties got a C. DL bad.  Our S’s and ANYBODY on the dline has to step up

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#11 · Sep 17, 9:34 AM
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@"Bullazin" said:
@"MaroonBells" said:
@"purplefaithful" said:
@"MaroonBells" said: See what happens on this play? Kirk gets time. When he has a clean pocket, there isn't a better QB in the league. That's not an opinion. That's fact. #1 in the NFL when given time. What would happen if we gave him time more often? 

https://tw


Have we screwed the pooch on this window already? Now the D has clearly taken a step back and the offense with that OL is probably not strong enough to consistently win 31/28 or 24/27

Maybe we should have placed more cap and resource emphasis on signing some good FA OL over the last 3-5 years? This organization is average at best in drafting and developing OL. So FA should have been an option they looked more closely at. 



Hre's one encouraging sign...



Our OL graded out well. safeties got a C. DL bad.  Our S’s and ANYBODY on the dline has to step up


That's kinda what I've been thinking about how the season will go. We'll have so much to complain about our defense, the offense will be the least of our worries. 

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#12 · Sep 17, 9:43 AM
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@"MaroonBells" said:
@"Bullazin" said:
@"MaroonBells" said:
@"purplefaithful" said:
@"MaroonBells" said: See what happens on this play? Kirk gets time. When he has a clean pocket, there isn't a better QB in the league. That's not an opinion. That's fact. #1 in the NFL when given time. What would happen if we gave him time more often? 

https://tw


Have we screwed the pooch on this window already? Now the D has clearly taken a step back and the offense with that OL is probably not strong enough to consistently win 31/28 or 24/27

Maybe we should have placed more cap and resource emphasis on signing some good FA OL over the last 3-5 years? This organization is average at best in drafting and developing OL. So FA should have been an option they looked more closely at. 



Hre's one encouraging sign...



Our OL graded out well. safeties got a C. DL bad.  Our S’s and ANYBODY on the dline has to step up


That's kinda what I've been thinking about how the season will go. We'll have so much to complain about our defense, the offense will be the least of our worries. 

The offense was equally as bad as the defense into the 4th
quarter, but the big GB lead opened things up for the passing game, IMO. 
The entire 1st half was a huge disappointment on both sides of the ball.

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#13 · Sep 17, 12:45 PM
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@"HappyViking" said:
@"MaroonBells" said:
@"Bullazin" said:
@"MaroonBells" said:
@"purplefaithful" said:
@"MaroonBells" said: See what happens on this play? Kirk gets time. When he has a clean pocket, there isn't a better QB in the league. That's not an opinion. That's fact. #1 in the NFL when given time. What would happen if we gave him time more often? 

https://tw


Have we screwed the pooch on this window already? Now the D has clearly taken a step back and the offense with that OL is probably not strong enough to consistently win 31/28 or 24/27

Maybe we should have placed more cap and resource emphasis on signing some good FA OL over the last 3-5 years? This organization is average at best in drafting and developing OL. So FA should have been an option they looked more closely at. 



Hre's one encouraging sign...



Our OL graded out well. safeties got a C. DL bad.  Our S’s and ANYBODY on the dline has to step up


That's kinda what I've been thinking about how the season will go. We'll have so much to complain about our defense, the offense will be the least of our worries. 

The offense was equally as bad as the defense into the 4th
quarter, but the big GB lead opened things up for the passing game, IMO. 
The entire 1st half was a huge disappointment on both sides of the ball.



I wouldn't say that. Vikings just didn't have the ball. When you score 34 points in 18 minutes, with no help from your defense or special teams, your offense isn't the problem. Giving up 43 points and 3rd down conversions pretty much at will...that's the problem. 

Does the offense have work to do? Of course they do. But, provided we stay healthy, there's little doubt the Vikings will have a top tenish offense this year. Get the other team off the damn field and then we'll see. 

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#14 · Sep 17, 1:44 PM
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@"MaroonBells" said:
@"HappyViking" said:
@"MaroonBells" said:
@"Bullazin" said:
@"MaroonBells" said:
@"purplefaithful" said:
@"MaroonBells" said: See what happens on this play? Kirk gets time. When he has a clean pocket, there isn't a better QB in the league. That's not an opinion. That's fact. #1 in the NFL when given time. What would happen if we gave him time more often? 

https://tw


Have we screwed the pooch on this window already? Now the D has clearly taken a step back and the offense with that OL is probably not strong enough to consistently win 31/28 or 24/27

Maybe we should have placed more cap and resource emphasis on signing some good FA OL over the last 3-5 years? This organization is average at best in drafting and developing OL. So FA should have been an option they looked more closely at. 



Hre's one encouraging sign...



Our OL graded out well. safeties got a C. DL bad.  Our S’s and ANYBODY on the dline has to step up


That's kinda what I've been thinking about how the season will go. We'll have so much to complain about our defense, the offense will be the least of our worries. 

The offense was equally as bad as the defense into the 4th
quarter, but the big GB lead opened things up for the passing game, IMO. 
The entire 1st half was a huge disappointment on both sides of the ball.



I wouldn't say that. Vikings just didn't have the ball. When you score 34 points in 18 minutes, with no help from your defense or special teams, your offense isn't the problem. Giving up 43 points and 3rd down conversions pretty much at will...that's the problem. 

Does the offense have work to do? Of course they do. But, provided we stay healthy, there's little doubt the Vikings will have a top tenish offense this year. Get the other team off the damn field and then we'll see. 



First half drives:8 plays TD2 plays safety3 plays -5yards punt2 plays Interception3 plays FGEnd of 1st half6 plays punt6 plays turnover on downs
Five out of the first seven drives were brutal and it totally gassed the defense.  Kubiak and Zim wanted to control the ball and keep AR and the GB offense off the field.  The offense after that first drive was crap until the 4th qtr, and the defense kept bending until it broke.
I actually quit watching after AT's first TD catch because I recorded it.  I don't have any interest in watching what I missed.
It's good the offense scored, but the game was so far out of reach by then it didn't really matter.  That's how I see it.
I think Indy will be much easier, but I wouldn't be surprised if we lose this one too.

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#15 · Sep 17, 4:43 PM
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@"HappyViking" said:
@"MaroonBells" said:
@"HappyViking" said:
@"MaroonBells" said:
@"Bullazin" said:
@"MaroonBells" said:
@"purplefaithful" said:
@"MaroonBells" said: See what happens on this play? Kirk gets time. When he has a clean pocket, there isn't a better QB in the league. That's not an opinion. That's fact. #1 in the NFL when given time. What would happen if we gave him time more often? 

https://tw


Have we screwed the pooch on this window already? Now the D has clearly taken a step back and the offense with that OL is probably not strong enough to consistently win 31/28 or 24/27

Maybe we should have placed more cap and resource emphasis on signing some good FA OL over the last 3-5 years? This organization is average at best in drafting and developing OL. So FA should have been an option they looked more closely at. 



Hre's one encouraging sign...



Our OL graded out well. safeties got a C. DL bad.  Our S’s and ANYBODY on the dline has to step up


That's kinda what I've been thinking about how the season will go. We'll have so much to complain about our defense, the offense will be the least of our worries. 

The offense was equally as bad as the defense into the 4th
quarter, but the big GB lead opened things up for the passing game, IMO. 
The entire 1st half was a huge disappointment on both sides of the ball.



I wouldn't say that. Vikings just didn't have the ball. When you score 34 points in 18 minutes, with no help from your defense or special teams, your offense isn't the problem. Giving up 43 points and 3rd down conversions pretty much at will...that's the problem. 

Does the offense have work to do? Of course they do. But, provided we stay healthy, there's little doubt the Vikings will have a top tenish offense this year. Get the other team off the damn field and then we'll see. 



First half drives:8 plays TD2 plays safety3 plays -5yards punt2 plays Interception3 plays FGEnd of 1st half



That's pretty typical in the NFL isn't it?  Some pretty good offense punctuated by two terrible miscues that prevented them from any sort of continuity or momentum. The pick and the safety are bad. But they're miscues...that happens...to every team. In 6 to 8 weeks, if we're still talking about how bad how bad our offense is, I'll be surprised. 

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#16 · Sep 17, 6:31 PM
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@"MaroonBells" said:
@"purplefaithful" said:
@"MaroonBells" said: See what happens on this play? Kirk gets time. When he has a clean pocket, there isn't a better QB in the league. That's not an opinion. That's fact. #1 in the NFL when given time. What would happen if we gave him time more often? 

https://tw


Have we screwed the pooch on this window already? Now the D has clearly taken a step back and the offense with that OL is probably not strong enough to consistently win 31/28 or 24/27

Maybe we should have placed more cap and resource emphasis on signing some good FA OL over the last 3-5 years? This organization is average at best in drafting and developing OL. So FA should have been an option they looked more closely at. 



Hre's one encouraging sign...



At what point did Clark leave the game injured? Cause he missed a bunch of it if I can recall a week ago lol!

That said, I hope the kid @ C improves a lot. We need him to. 

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#17 · Sep 18, 3:44 PM
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Week 1 was a rough game, though I do think the Vikings have a chance to improve significantly over the next few weeks. Here are a few thoughts that I have from that game:

  • It's encouraging to see that the offense is capable of putting up points.
  • The young corners held up fairly well, especially when you consider how long they were being asked to cover for.
  • I wouldn't be shocked if Gladney & Dantzler supplant Hughes & Hill over the course of the year.
  • That was the worst game I've seen from the DL in a long time. They couldn't stop the run and were ineffective at creating pressure. I think that Ngakoue will get better as he catches up from missing training camp, but I expected Odenigbo to have a stronger game. Whenever Hunter returns, that will help immensely. DT is a bigger long-term concern. Stephen filling in for Pierce is understandable, but I don't understand why they keep giving Johnson chances to start. I really hope that Watts or Lynch can emerge this year, otherwise 3-technique is a 1st round need.
  • I liked the flashes that I saw from Bisi Johnson, Irv Smith Jr., & Justin Jefferson but they'll need to shoulder more of the workload.
  • It was nice to see that Thielen is healthy and he can carry the passing attack without Diggs on the other side, but as I noted above I want to see more of the workload spread around.
  • O'Neill got beat badly a few times.
  • Cousins is still himself, even if that can be frustrating at times.
  • The rushing attack looks good when its given a chance.
  • Eric Kendricks is the best player on our defense right now.
  • The pass rush needs to improve, because the safeties just like the corners are left hung to dry if they are asked to cover forever.
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#18 · Sep 19, 12:37 PM
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