Zimmer: This year's CBs better than last year

Not a lot of talk about Holton Hill, but it sounds like he's quietly on track to be one of our starting outside corners. If Dantzler and Hill start, that gives us two 6-2 corners outside, and two 1st rounders at nickel and dime. 

training camp stonks

Holton Hill ⬆️⬆️⬆️
Cam Danztler ⬆️⬆️⬆️
Alexander Hollins ⬆️⬆️
Armon Watts ⬆️⬆️
Garrett Bradbury ⬆️
Jaleel Johnson ⬆️
K.J. Osborn ⬆️

most of the rookies ⬇️
Chad Beebe⬇️
Brandon Dillon⬇️
Dru Samia⬇️⬇️
backup safeties ⬇️⬇️

— Nick Olson (@NickOlsonNFL) August 22, 2020

@"MaroonBells" said: Not a lot of talk about Holton Hill...

Well, clearly that was just me spending a few days in the mountains. Sounds like Hill has been getting a lot of attention....

https://www.si.com/nfl/vikings/news/vikings-training-camp-notes-holton-hill-shines-day-5

I've read that Bradbury has taken a step up in his 2nd year, bigger and more stout at point of attack. 

Zim probably thinks next years 1st, 2nd, and 3d round corners will be even better.

@"kmillard" said: Zim probably thinks next years 1st, 2nd, and 3d round corners will be even better.

This made me laugh. Well done.

It's pretty clear that all the high draft capital that Zim and Rick spent on Waynes and Alexander didn't generate a lot of positive roi.  A couple good years out of Rhodes but his drafting predated Zim as did Harry's.   Anthony Harris is good but was a UDFA.   Same for Holton Hill.   The jury is out on Hughes at this point but his injuries are a concern.   

Revamping with youth is a good idea but how long til Zim picks his favorites and performance takes a back seat?  His love affair with Xavier hurt the team the last year or two, and the opportunity to trade X away for some real value was lost.   The team could see he was in decline as early as 2018 and that was the time to move him.   They need to stop making sentimental decisions to appease the coach who's won nothing and make smarter ones.

@"comet52" said: It's pretty clear that all the high draft capital that Zim and Rick spent on Waynes and Alexander didn't generate a lot of positive roi.  A couple good years out of Rhodes but his drafting predated Zim as did Harry's.   Anthony Harris is good but was a UDFA.   Same for Holton Hill.   The jury is out on Hughes at this point but his injuries are a concern.   

Revamping with youth is a good idea but how long til Zim picks his favorites and performance takes a back seat?  His love affair with Xavier hurt the team the last year or two, and the opportunity to trade X away for some real value was lost.   The team could see he was in decline as early as 2018 and that was the time to move him.   They need to stop making sentimental decisions to appease the coach who's won nothing and make smarter ones.

I don't agree with that. The "love affair" comment implies that Zim irrationally stuck with him past his prime. But for two or three years Xavier Rhodes was one of the best corners in the NFL. He was 1st Team All Pro in 2017 and just turned 28 in 2018. Yes, he fell off but there is no way that could've been foreseen by anyone. Age-related declines don't happen at 28 years old. Hell, he just turned 30 this summer and it really shouldn't even be happening at that age either. I think the team was as surprised as all of us at the kind of performance he turned in the last couple of seasons. 

Hill - Hughes on the outside, Dantzler first man up outside
Gladney on the slot

Again, the cupboard is no longer full of expiring overpriced items.

@"Tyr" said:

@"purplefaithful" said: The "cb situation" coming off last season was unbelievable...Bad taste in my mouth with all that draft capital walking. I say that even though it was clear XR was past his prime. 

The upside looks to be there with those kids, but you can't teach experience and the DL is a big concern. Packers and Bears defenses look to be much more stout than the Vikings.

On paper? The offense is clearly the strength of the team right now. 

I have not been a fan of how they managed CB. Letting two 1st rounders and a 2nd rounder walk stung. Rhodes at least made it to his second contract, but it was best for everyone to part ways. I'm also concerned because Hughes has two years left on his deal and there is a decent chance that he doesn't make it to a second contract. It just feels like a very inefficient strategy and it's hard for me to not think about other parts of the roster that are being neglected, because we've burned so many high round picks on corners.

For all the talk about Rhodes and his "kind of" unexpected decline, how big did his injuries play a part? Granted, he never had anything debilitating like an ACL or so, but my God it seemed like every game he went out due to something. Maybe all those minor injuries finally caught up with him. Can't really figure out or explain his quick drop otherwise.

@"MaroonBells" said:

@"comet52" said: It's pretty clear that all the high draft capital that Zim and Rick spent on Waynes and Alexander didn't generate a lot of positive roi.  A couple good years out of Rhodes but his drafting predated Zim as did Harry's.   Anthony Harris is good but was a UDFA.   Same for Holton Hill.   The jury is out on Hughes at this point but his injuries are a concern.   

Revamping with youth is a good idea but how long til Zim picks his favorites and performance takes a back seat?  His love affair with Xavier hurt the team the last year or two, and the opportunity to trade X away for some real value was lost.   The team could see he was in decline as early as 2018 and that was the time to move him.   They need to stop making sentimental decisions to appease the coach who's won nothing and make smarter ones.

I don't agree with that. The "love affair" comment implies that Zim irrationally stuck with him past his prime. But for two or three years Xavier Rhodes was one of the best corners in the NFL. He was 1st Team All Pro in 2017 and just turned 28 in 2018. Yes, he fell off but there is no way that could've been foreseen by anyone. Age-related declines don't happen at 28 years old. Hell, he just turned 30 this summer and it really shouldn't even be happening at that age either. I think the team was as surprised as all of us at the kind of performance he turned in the last couple of seasons. 

@"comet52" said:

@"MaroonBells" said:

@"comet52" said: It's pretty clear that all the high draft capital that Zim and Rick spent on Waynes and Alexander didn't generate a lot of positive roi.  A couple good years out of Rhodes but his drafting predated Zim as did Harry's.   Anthony Harris is good but was a UDFA.   Same for Holton Hill.   The jury is out on Hughes at this point but his injuries are a concern.   

Revamping with youth is a good idea but how long til Zim picks his favorites and performance takes a back seat?  His love affair with Xavier hurt the team the last year or two, and the opportunity to trade X away for some real value was lost.   The team could see he was in decline as early as 2018 and that was the time to move him.   They need to stop making sentimental decisions to appease the coach who's won nothing and make smarter ones.

I don't agree with that. The "love affair" comment implies that Zim irrationally stuck with him past his prime. But for two or three years Xavier Rhodes was one of the best corners in the NFL. He was 1st Team All Pro in 2017 and just turned 28 in 2018. Yes, he fell off but there is no way that could've been foreseen by anyone. Age-related declines don't happen at 28 years old. Hell, he just turned 30 this summer and it really shouldn't even be happening at that age either. I think the team was as surprised as all of us at the kind of performance he turned in the last couple of seasons. 

I saw it coming and wanted them to trade him in 2018 and again in 2019.   He was a liability last year and that was a result of Zim's love affair.

Today was by far the most efficient #VikingsCamp practice yet.

The 1st-team defense looked solid today & once again Holton Hill put another quality day together. You can see the level of competition rising in WR group due to Holton’s play! #IronSharpensIron

— Gabe Henderson (@GabeAHenderson) August 25, 2020

@"PurpleCrush" said: For all the talk about Rhodes and his "kind of" unexpected decline, how big did his injuries play a part? Granted, he never had anything debilitating like an ACL or so, but my God it seemed like every game he went out due to something. Maybe all those minor injuries finally caught up with him. Can't really figure out or explain his quick drop otherwise.

Rhodes was constantly banged up, so it's hard to say if the cumulative effect of the injuries that were enough to slow him down, but not keep him out of games was. It did seem like he lost some speed. He was still generally in good position, but he just couldn't quite keep up with receivers. That led to him getting more handsy in coverage & the refs seemed to focus on him. Once he started making mistakes, he'd lose his cool mentally and take himself out of plays.

To Jor-El's point bottoming out early in a 5-year contract is not good. You don't expect someone who played at Rhode's caliber to slow down in what should be his prime. I will say that losing Waynes and Alexander may sting less than I initially thought. Waynes got hurt and Alexander had the issue where he got arrested when his Dad disappeared. Thankfully his Dad was found safe, but it is nice not dealing with those distractions, even if I feel that both players should have had a few more productive years with the Vikings.

Rhodes decline wasn't just physical, there was a huge psychological impact. It royally sucked. If he rebounds in Indy, maybe they learn from it. I like seeing more corners with size and speed. Dantzler's combine time wasn't as good as his pro day, lucky for the Vikings. I do like what I have seen from him so far. Of course it's early but still and he will learn a lot from coaching and going up against Theilen. Looking forward to seeing how it plays out.

I think the coaching staff is low level excited about this group of DBs. Holton Hill is a borderline stud if he can stay clean. We're locked in at safety. Vikes can make hay with Hughes, Hill, Dantzler, Gladney and Boyd (who played at a big time program at Texas and is underrated). Boyd could play safety I think also if need be. 

@"StickyBun" said: I think the coaching staff is low level excited about this group of DBs. Holton Hill is a borderline stud if he can stay clean. We're locked in at safety. Vikes can make hay with Hughes, Hill, Dantzler, Gladney and Boyd (who played at a big time program at Texas and is underrated). Boyd could play safety I think also if need be. 

Remember last spring? We had a guy actually leave the board he was so incensed there were people who thought the Vikings secondary might not be terrible this season.

Still have to lace 'em up and see what they're capable of, but I'll say it again, the Vikings secondary might not be terrible. In fact, I think by November, this secondary might be better than the one we played with last year.