The Dark Horse at Left Guard
@JimmyinSD this is for you because I know you have Collins as one of your starting 5. You called it first!
With Aviante Collins’ injury history, this is most likely his make it or break it chance to be a major part of the Vikings organization. He must stay healthy and on the field or he might be in danger of being released. As a matter of fact, ESPN’s Bill Barnell has picked Collins as his most likely Viking to get cut.
Some Vikings fans may not know who offensive lineman Aviante Collins is, but it’s time to pay attention. The backup tackle/guard received plenty of rave reviews from the late Tony Sparano in 2017 and has played in 5 games with one start over his NFL career.
As an undrafted rookie, Collins worked his was onto the active roster and earned late season offensive snaps in Pat Shurmur’s jumbo package illustrated in the first video below.
He made the 53 man roster his sophomore season in 2018 and he was set to see some playing time filling in for the injured Pat Elflein. Collins was the number two left guard on the roster until a season ending injury (torn biceps) sent him to IR in early September before he got his opportunity. RT Mike Remmers was then reassigned to guard, a position he never played professionally nor in college.
In 2019 Collins was on the practice squad for the first 10 weeks of the season before working his way back to the 53 man roster. Believe it or not, he wound up logging more offensive snaps (49) than Dru Sumia (31) and Oli Udoh (31). Collins even finished with a higher PFF grade that Dakota Dozier, Sumia and Udoh.
The Vikings like to promote from within and they do have a storied history with undrafted players finding stardom. Could this be the year Collins gets his chance? The Vikings have plenty of talent at the tackle position, so, it wouldn’t surprise me if Collins is asked to focus only on the left guard position. I think Collins is certainly a candidate to steal the starting guard spot from Elflein.
If Collins can win a starting job, the powerful and versatile offensive lineman from TCU would give the Vikings the fastest and most athletic OL in the NFL. With 3 of the current starters running 4.9s and better, almost identical 30" verticals and throw in an average of nearly 30 reps @225 lbs, would make this outside zone-blocking scheme unique. Remember that Collins was timed with the third fastest 40 among OT’s in combine history at 4.81 while also putting up 34 reps at 225 lbs. The undrafted free agent has been with the Vikings for 3 years and should be well versed in Gary Kubiak’s blocking scheme.
Great video here of Collins at the end of his rookies season (2017-2018) with the Vikings.
https://youtu.be/Qx3LC7CwvkI
Collins held up well against Kalil Mack and company. This video is of almost every Vikings offensive snap against the Bears.
https://youtu.be/d0fOGLZV1Lo
I like Aviante Collins and I know the team does, too, but is he a starter in the NFL? Maybe he is. I'd think he'd definitely be getting a hard look.
Line will certainly be better in '20, but I'm excited about what it will be in '21...The youth, athleticism and upside in this line would be ridiculous...4 out of the 5 starters run sub 5.0 forties.
LT: Cleveland, Udoh
LG: Collins
C: Bradbury, Hinton
RG: Samia
RT: O'Neill, Udoh
Collins has appeared in 2 games in 3 years. 2018 was an injury washout from preseason. He was also always injured in college so the trend continues. I do agree that when he has played he has looked pretty darn good but we have a lot of "If's" along the OL that can go either way. I hope our remaining salary cap after rookies in spent on a veteran G. But if we plan on doing something with Cook then we don't have the money for a guy like Warford. I think Warford is 28 and going into his 7th season with 3 straight Pro Bowls.
I think the Vikings will put their best 5 out there and I think you will see some combination of Reiff/Cleveland at LT and LG.
@"supafreak84" said: I think the Vikings will put their best 5 out there and I think you will see some combination of Reiff/Cleveland at LT and LG.Reiff was not a very good guard when the Lions moved him there 4 or 5 years ago and now he is older. Honestly If we get a very early read on Cleveland being able to start at LT then we might just cut Reiff and save over 8 Million after the 4 dead money.
Do not think Cleveland has ever played Guard and would not want him to start their anyway. I also do not want to play around with the only solid position on our OL at RT and Hill as swing. Both G positions are our biggest question marks on the whole team - IMO.
If I recall Detroit tried Reiff at RT his last season there & he didn’t play as well as he had...
@"Kentis" said: If I recall Detroit tried Reiff at RT his last season there & he didn’t play as well as he had...I dont recall him playing guard either, it was the move to RT is where he struggled.
Reiff played some guard at Iowa, but don't think he ever did in Detroit. He played mostly left tackle. When Decker showed up they moved him to RT for his final year there, but he actually graded a little bit better on the left.
@"JimmyinSD" said:Yes I stand corrected.@"Kentis" said: If I recall Detroit tried Reiff at RT his last season there & he didn’t play as well as he had... I dont recall him playing guard either, it was the move to RT is where he struggled.But moving Reiff to Guard would be a mistake IMO. Back to my point, if Cleveland is ready to start from early signs I would cut Reiff and use that money to bring in a natural Guard like Warford. Of course Warford will be signed at that point but there maybe another good Guard cut as the season approaches. I guess I am in the camp that our OL problems are not much better then last year by drafting a LT and a few late round flyers.
@"minny65" said:@"JimmyinSD" said:Yes I stand corrected.@"Kentis" said: If I recall Detroit tried Reiff at RT his last season there & he didn’t play as well as he had... I dont recall him playing guard either, it was the move to RT is where he struggled.But moving Reiff to Guard would be a mistake IMO. Back to my point, if Cleveland is ready to start from early signs I would cut Reiff and use that money to bring in a natural Guard like Warford. Of course Warford will be signed at that point but there maybe another good Guard cut as the season approaches. I guess I am in the camp that our OL problems are not much better then last year by drafting a LT and a few late round flyers.
I wasnt down enough on Reiff to think that a rookie from a small conference is going to come in and be performing at a higher level by week one. Maybe he will, but we've got a lot of money guaranteed on the QB position to be risking it on a big ? on the blind side. I think if they wanted to move on from Reiff they would have already cut him with the post june 1st designation and decided to let Hill and Cleveland battle.
@"JimmyinSD" said:@"minny65" said:@"JimmyinSD" said:Yes I stand corrected.@"Kentis" said: If I recall Detroit tried Reiff at RT his last season there & he didn’t play as well as he had... I dont recall him playing guard either, it was the move to RT is where he struggled.But moving Reiff to Guard would be a mistake IMO. Back to my point, if Cleveland is ready to start from early signs I would cut Reiff and use that money to bring in a natural Guard like Warford. Of course Warford will be signed at that point but there maybe another good Guard cut as the season approaches. I guess I am in the camp that our OL problems are not much better then last year by drafting a LT and a few late round flyers.
I wasnt down enough on Reiff to think that a rookie from a small conference is going to come in and be performing at a higher level by week one. Maybe he will, but we've got a lot of money guaranteed on the QB position to be risking it on a big ? on the blind side. I think if they wanted to move on from Reiff they would have already cut him with the post june 1st designation and decided to let Hill and Cleveland battle.Reiff has been solid enough to give Cleveland a year to grow into the position. Having some legit competition may make Reiff better as well. Other than the year with the foot injury, he has been a solid starter. I think that is good enough to keep him there this year as the veteran presence on the line. Remember, all that youth needs a bit of leadership.
@"JimmyinSD" said:That is one of my points. I think Reiff is a decent LT and would not move him to Guard just to try and get Cleveland to LT and I don't think having an inexperienced rookie tackle play Guard is part of the solution at Guard. So with those thoughts neither Reiff or Cleveland help our Guard situation.@"minny65" said:@"JimmyinSD" said:Yes I stand corrected.@"Kentis" said: If I recall Detroit tried Reiff at RT his last season there & he didn’t play as well as he had... I dont recall him playing guard either, it was the move to RT is where he struggled.But moving Reiff to Guard would be a mistake IMO. Back to my point, if Cleveland is ready to start from early signs I would cut Reiff and use that money to bring in a natural Guard like Warford. Of course Warford will be signed at that point but there maybe another good Guard cut as the season approaches. I guess I am in the camp that our OL problems are not much better then last year by drafting a LT and a few late round flyers.
I wasnt down enough on Reiff to think that a rookie from a small conference is going to come in and be performing at a higher level by week one. Maybe he will, but we've got a lot of money guaranteed on the QB position to be risking it on a big ? on the blind side. I think if they wanted to move on from Reiff they would have already cut him with the post june 1st designation and decided to let Hill and Cleveland battle.
@"greediron" said:@"JimmyinSD" said:@"minny65" said:@"JimmyinSD" said:Yes I stand corrected.@"Kentis" said: If I recall Detroit tried Reiff at RT his last season there & he didn’t play as well as he had... I dont recall him playing guard either, it was the move to RT is where he struggled.But moving Reiff to Guard would be a mistake IMO. Back to my point, if Cleveland is ready to start from early signs I would cut Reiff and use that money to bring in a natural Guard like Warford. Of course Warford will be signed at that point but there maybe another good Guard cut as the season approaches. I guess I am in the camp that our OL problems are not much better then last year by drafting a LT and a few late round flyers.
I wasnt down enough on Reiff to think that a rookie from a small conference is going to come in and be performing at a higher level by week one. Maybe he will, but we've got a lot of money guaranteed on the QB position to be risking it on a big ? on the blind side. I think if they wanted to move on from Reiff they would have already cut him with the post june 1st designation and decided to let Hill and Cleveland battle.Reiff has been solid enough to give Cleveland a year to grow into the position. Having some legit competition may make Reiff better as well. Other than the year with the foot injury, he has been a solid starter. I think that is good enough to keep him there this year as the veteran presence on the line. Remember, all that youth needs a bit of leadership.
Personally, I wouldn't go as far as to say Reiff was 'solid enough', but I do agree that I sincerely doubt Cleveland starts at LT his rookie season.
@"minny65" said:@"JimmyinSD" said:That is one of my points. I think Reiff is a decent LT and would not move him to Guard just to try and get Cleveland to LT and I don't think having an inexperienced rookie tackle play Guard is part of the solution at Guard. So with those thoughts neither Reiff or Cleveland help our Guard situation.@"minny65" said:@"JimmyinSD" said:Yes I stand corrected.@"Kentis" said: If I recall Detroit tried Reiff at RT his last season there & he didn’t play as well as he had... I dont recall him playing guard either, it was the move to RT is where he struggled.But moving Reiff to Guard would be a mistake IMO. Back to my point, if Cleveland is ready to start from early signs I would cut Reiff and use that money to bring in a natural Guard like Warford. Of course Warford will be signed at that point but there maybe another good Guard cut as the season approaches. I guess I am in the camp that our OL problems are not much better then last year by drafting a LT and a few late round flyers.
I wasnt down enough on Reiff to think that a rookie from a small conference is going to come in and be performing at a higher level by week one. Maybe he will, but we've got a lot of money guaranteed on the QB position to be risking it on a big ? on the blind side. I think if they wanted to move on from Reiff they would have already cut him with the post june 1st designation and decided to let Hill and Cleveland battle.Yes. And if you move Cleveland, you set him back at learning LT. And if Reiff gets injured, suddenly the whole left side is moving. Let the kid learn, we may need him soon enough.
Been in love with Collins when he got the extra reps in the Miracle DR game. He did well in a huge spot, showed flexibility, speed, versatitliy to go with his size and speed.
Collins, Udoh, Samia, Dozier, 2 of these will win the starting G spots. My money is on Collins and Udoh, they present solid technique with great size. If we make no moves for Warford. I know it’s risky but 2020 line should be:
Cleveland-Collins-Bradberry-Udoh-ONeil with Dozier, Samia, Hill, Jones, Elf on the bench
@"StickyBun" said:@"greediron" said:@"JimmyinSD" said:@"minny65" said:@"JimmyinSD" said:Yes I stand corrected.@"Kentis" said: If I recall Detroit tried Reiff at RT his last season there & he didn’t play as well as he had... I dont recall him playing guard either, it was the move to RT is where he struggled.But moving Reiff to Guard would be a mistake IMO. Back to my point, if Cleveland is ready to start from early signs I would cut Reiff and use that money to bring in a natural Guard like Warford. Of course Warford will be signed at that point but there maybe another good Guard cut as the season approaches. I guess I am in the camp that our OL problems are not much better then last year by drafting a LT and a few late round flyers.
I wasnt down enough on Reiff to think that a rookie from a small conference is going to come in and be performing at a higher level by week one. Maybe he will, but we've got a lot of money guaranteed on the QB position to be risking it on a big ? on the blind side. I think if they wanted to move on from Reiff they would have already cut him with the post june 1st designation and decided to let Hill and Cleveland battle.Reiff has been solid enough to give Cleveland a year to grow into the position. Having some legit competition may make Reiff better as well. Other than the year with the foot injury, he has been a solid starter. I think that is good enough to keep him there this year as the veteran presence on the line. Remember, all that youth needs a bit of leadership.
Personally, I wouldn't go as far as to say Reiff was 'solid enough', but I do agree that I sincerely doubt Cleveland starts at LT his rookie season.LT wasn't the problem in pass pro. He had a bad stretch while playing with the foot injury, but otherwise he has been a solid LT IMO.
@"greediron" said:Agree.@"minny65" said:@"JimmyinSD" said:That is one of my points. I think Reiff is a decent LT and would not move him to Guard just to try and get Cleveland to LT and I don't think having an inexperienced rookie tackle play Guard is part of the solution at Guard. So with those thoughts neither Reiff or Cleveland help our Guard situation.@"minny65" said:@"JimmyinSD" said:Yes I stand corrected.@"Kentis" said: If I recall Detroit tried Reiff at RT his last season there & he didn’t play as well as he had... I dont recall him playing guard either, it was the move to RT is where he struggled.But moving Reiff to Guard would be a mistake IMO. Back to my point, if Cleveland is ready to start from early signs I would cut Reiff and use that money to bring in a natural Guard like Warford. Of course Warford will be signed at that point but there maybe another good Guard cut as the season approaches. I guess I am in the camp that our OL problems are not much better then last year by drafting a LT and a few late round flyers.
I wasnt down enough on Reiff to think that a rookie from a small conference is going to come in and be performing at a higher level by week one. Maybe he will, but we've got a lot of money guaranteed on the QB position to be risking it on a big ? on the blind side. I think if they wanted to move on from Reiff they would have already cut him with the post june 1st designation and decided to let Hill and Cleveland battle.Yes. And if you move Cleveland, you set him back at learning LT. And if Reiff gets injured, suddenly the whole left side is moving. Let the kid learn, we may need him soon enough.
Our problem is at Guard
@"Skodin" said: Been in love with Collins when he got the extra reps in the Miracle DR game. He did well in a huge spot, showed flexibility, speed, versatitliy to go with his size and speed.Collins, Udoh, Samia, Dozier, 2 of these will win the starting G spots. My money is on Collins and Udoh, they present solid technique with great size. If we make no moves for Warford. I know it’s risky but 2020 line should be:
Cleveland-Collins-Bradberry-Udoh-ONeil with Dozier, Samia, Hill, Jones, Elf on the bench
I think that line has a huge amount of potential. And if you go with that this year, think about what you're going to have next year. Gonna be hard to keep Samia out of the lineup though.
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