Saints release Larry Warford

Rick, drop some dimes brah, lets get elflein to swing IOL stat

NO is such a well run org. That Oline is badass

Per PFF:
Larry Warford in 2019 received:
 75.8 overall grade
 71.4 pass block grade
 76.6 run block grade
 32 pressures allowed

If the #Vikings are interested in signing him he would immediately become the highest graded offensive lineman on the team in overall grade
#SKOL

A Pro Bowl guard (and great run blocker) next to Ezra Cleveland might be the the best way to help develop our new tackle. Sign Warford... cut Rieff and the Viking might have the enough money to resign Cook.  

Twenty eight year old pro bowl guard, as much as I have a loyal affinity for Elflein as a drafted Vike.  Gotta say thanks for that rookie year, but I like Larry more.

Three words: zone blocking scheme.

Three more words: not a fit.

So we want to pay for a pro bowl free agent right guard and have him switch sides in a season that looks to have limited offseason reps

and to help pay for him we are going to cut our starting left tackle in hopes that a developmental LT project will be ready week   one....again in a season that will have very limited practice reps.

I think Kline is 1) a better fit and 2) much cheaper.  I would rather see us bring him back to compete at LG.

Warford has some NFL starts under his belt at left guard and even left tackle. So it's not like the left side is completely new for him.

The Saints started running zone blocking concepts 6 years ago.
This is what Saints Wire had to say after signing Devine Ozigbo:

He flourished in an offense that leaned heavily on outside zone blocking, which the Saints also use to great effectiveness.

I wouldn't mind seeing Kline resigned, but that hasn't happened yet and may not. Rieff's cap hit next year is a big problem. 

Ezra Cleveland is one of the strongest guys in his class and Boise State runs a similar system. He is one of our top 5 OL right now! 

It doesn't make sense to start Cleveland at left guard for one year? Or does it?

I will admit Warford is probably not the answer,.. but the Vikings have a couple question marks on the OL that need answered. 

I guess I will just need to be patient. 

@"Carl Knowles" said: Warford has some NFL starts under his belt at left guard and even left tackle. So it's not like the left side is completely new for him.

The Saints started running zone blocking concepts 6 years ago.
This is what Saints Wire had to say after signing Devine Ozigbo:

He flourished in an offense that leaned heavily on outside zone blocking, which the Saints also use to great effectiveness.

I wouldn't mind seeing Kline resigned, but that hasn't happened yet and may not. Rieff's cap hit next year is a big problem. 

Ezra Cleveland is one of the strongest guys in his class and Boise State runs a similar system. He is one of our top 5 OL right now! 

It doesn't make sense to start Cleveland at left guard for one year? Or does it?

I will admit Warford is probably not the answer,.. but the Vikings have a couple question marks on the OL that need answered. 

I guess I will just need to be patient. 

The Vikes are currently under their cap with enough to cover their draft picks and then some,  Reiffs contract is only an issue for those that think there is a better answer at LT on the roster or somebody that can come in and do the job better for less,  I havent seen that player yet.  Hes still the second best OL we have on the roster and plays the most important position outside of QB in the game..

@"JimmyinSD" said:

@"Carl Knowles" said: Warford has some NFL starts under his belt at left guard and even left tackle. So it's not like the left side is completely new for him.

The Saints started running zone blocking concepts 6 years ago.
This is what Saints Wire had to say after signing Devine Ozigbo:

He flourished in an offense that leaned heavily on outside zone blocking, which the Saints also use to great effectiveness.

I wouldn't mind seeing Kline resigned, but that hasn't happened yet and may not. Rieff's cap hit next year is a big problem. 

Ezra Cleveland is one of the strongest guys in his class and Boise State runs a similar system. He is one of our top 5 OL right now! 

It doesn't make sense to start Cleveland at left guard for one year? Or does it?

I will admit Warford is probably not the answer,.. but the Vikings have a couple question marks on the OL that need answered. 

I guess I will just need to be patient. 

You say Cleveland is one of the strongest in this class,  yet, iirc, so many predraft analysis of him talked about the need to add core strength to play at the next level, suggesting that he is not yet strong enough for the NFL.

The Vikes are currently under their cap with enough to cover their draft picks and then some,  Reiffs contract is only an issue for those that think there is a better answer at LT on the roster or somebody that can come in and do the job better for less,  I havent seen that player yet.  Hes still the second best OL we have on the roster and plays the most important position outside of QB in the game..

@"JimmyinSD" said:

@"Carl Knowles" said: Warford has some NFL starts under his belt at left guard and even left tackle. So it's not like the left side is completely new for him.

The Saints started running zone blocking concepts 6 years ago.
This is what Saints Wire had to say after signing Devine Ozigbo:

He flourished in an offense that leaned heavily on outside zone blocking, which the Saints also use to great effectiveness.

I wouldn't mind seeing Kline resigned, but that hasn't happened yet and may not. Rieff's cap hit next year is a big problem. 

Ezra Cleveland is one of the strongest guys in his class and Boise State runs a similar system. He is one of our top 5 OL right now! 

It doesn't make sense to start Cleveland at left guard for one year? Or does it?

I will admit Warford is probably not the answer,.. but the Vikings have a couple question marks on the OL that need answered. 

I guess I will just need to be patient. 

You say Cleveland is one of the strongest in this class,  yet, iirc, so many predraft analysis of him talked about the need to add core strength to play at the next level, suggesting that he is not yet strong enough for the NFL.

The Vikes are currently under their cap with enough to cover their draft picks and then some,  Reiffs contract is only an issue for those that think there is a better answer at LT on the roster or somebody that can come in and do the job better for less,  I havent seen that player yet.  Hes still the second best OL we have on the roster and plays the most important position outside of QB in the game..

Vikings did not even bother addressing the guard position in the draft until the 7th round when they took an FCS left tackle, Kyle Hinton.

It's hard to imagine they are interested in any free agent to be honest.

I fear that they actually believe they are SET at guard for the upcoming season.

I would really want us to kick the tires on Warford.  Our interior OL improvement was our biggest need going into and now coming out of the draft - IMO.  Bradburry was an OK rookie and both Guards were average to below average all year.  So we have the likes of Elf, Samia, Dozier, udoh, Hinton....competing at Guard right now.  That is not a very solid group at all.  

Like someone else said, signing Warford makes him our best OL as soon as the ink dries.  

I have been reading about hopeful optimism regarding Samia stepping in and starting at RG next year after a rookie year of playing in 2 games.  Would be great but I would prefer to sign a sure thing and groom the likes of Samia and the others listed above.  Even if we sign Warford at RG then our next biggest weakness (on the whole team - IMO) is Elf at LG.

@"Carl Knowles" said:

@"JimmyinSD" said:

@"Carl Knowles" said: Warford has some NFL starts under his belt at left guard and even left tackle. So it's not like the left side is completely new for him.

The Saints started running zone blocking concepts 6 years ago.
This is what Saints Wire had to say after signing Devine Ozigbo:

He flourished in an offense that leaned heavily on outside zone blocking, which the Saints also use to great effectiveness.

I wouldn't mind seeing Kline resigned, but that hasn't happened yet and may not. Rieff's cap hit next year is a big problem. 

Ezra Cleveland is one of the strongest guys in his class and Boise State runs a similar system. He is one of our top 5 OL right now! 

It doesn't make sense to start Cleveland at left guard for one year? Or does it?

I will admit Warford is probably not the answer,.. but the Vikings have a couple question marks on the OL that need answered. 

I guess I will just need to be patient. 

You say Cleveland is one of the strongest in this class,  yet, iirc, so many predraft analysis of him talked about the need to add core strength to play at the next level, suggesting that he is not yet strong enough for the NFL.

The Vikes are currently under their cap with enough to cover their draft picks and then some,  Reiffs contract is only an issue for those that think there is a better answer at LT on the roster or somebody that can come in and do the job better for less,  I havent seen that player yet.  Hes still the second best OL we have on the roster and plays the most important position outside of QB in the game..

Yes, I'm seeing those evaluations.
Lance Zierlein NFL Analyst:

Athletic left tackle able to make all outside zone blocks in the run game, but in dire need of additional mass and functional strength. Tape work can be tricky as Cleveland suffered a turf toe injury in his second game of the 2019 season and was unable to practice for much of the year. Issues anchoring and redirecting edge pressure are independent from his injury, but determining the impact of that injury on his play is challenging. He plays with patience and technique but lacks base width and contact balance. Cleveland has the athleticism to play swing tackle for a zone-based offense but needs to get much stronger to hold up as a starter.
Cleveland checks in at 310 pounds and was the #1 OL in 3 cone and 20 yard shuttle. Was #3 in the 40 and #5 in the bench. He checks all the boxes and looked very good at the Senior bowl.

Jimmy keep in mind, functional strength seen on tape has a lot to do with technique. I have heard that a turf toe injury can be very painful. Cleveland did not practice all season yet still played in the games. Coaches rarely allow that to happen. Most coaches have a rule of thumb... if you can't practice you can't play! 

I don't know that much about Cleveland,.. but I think if Brian O'Neil could step in and start as an NFL rookie, I see no reason why Cleveland can't do the same. 

Now, even though Cleveland has never played guard, many analysts project him as a very good starting caliber guard at the next level.

My problem with that is he has great lateral quickness and is a very good pass blocker against speed rushers, plus 33 3/8 arms (all the traits you look for in a left tackle). The Vikings drafted him as a tackle, have him listed as a tackle on the official roster... and he was unquestionably ranked as a top 50 tackle prospect.

Yet our #1 need right now is probably to "improve" our pass blocking at left guard. IMO, Rieff, Kline and Cleveland can answer that problem in the short term (which the Vikings might do in an abbreviated offseason), but are those options (at left guard) good for the Vikings over the long haul looking forward to the next three or four years? Keep in mind those three guys have not really been focused on the left guard spot.  

Jimmy who would your starting five be right now? 
           

@"JimmyinSD" said:

@"Carl Knowles" said:

@"JimmyinSD" said:

@"Carl Knowles" said: Warford has some NFL starts under his belt at left guard and even left tackle. So it's not like the left side is completely new for him.

The Saints started running zone blocking concepts 6 years ago.
This is what Saints Wire had to say after signing Devine Ozigbo:

He flourished in an offense that leaned heavily on outside zone blocking, which the Saints also use to great effectiveness.

I wouldn't mind seeing Kline resigned, but that hasn't happened yet and may not. Rieff's cap hit next year is a big problem. 

Ezra Cleveland is one of the strongest guys in his class and Boise State runs a similar system. He is one of our top 5 OL right now! 

It doesn't make sense to start Cleveland at left guard for one year? Or does it?

I will admit Warford is probably not the answer,.. but the Vikings have a couple question marks on the OL that need answered. 

I guess I will just need to be patient. 

You say Cleveland is one of the strongest in this class,  yet, iirc, so many predraft analysis of him talked about the need to add core strength to play at the next level, suggesting that he is not yet strong enough for the NFL.

The Vikes are currently under their cap with enough to cover their draft picks and then some,  Reiffs contract is only an issue for those that think there is a better answer at LT on the roster or somebody that can come in and do the job better for less,  I havent seen that player yet.  Hes still the second best OL we have on the roster and plays the most important position outside of QB in the game..

Yes, I'm seeing those evaluations.
Lance Zierlein NFL Analyst:

Athletic left tackle able to make all outside zone blocks in the run game, but in dire need of additional mass and functional strength. Tape work can be tricky as Cleveland suffered a turf toe injury in his second game of the 2019 season and was unable to practice for much of the year. Issues anchoring and redirecting edge pressure are independent from his injury, but determining the impact of that injury on his play is challenging. He plays with patience and technique but lacks base width and contact balance. Cleveland has the athleticism to play swing tackle for a zone-based offense but needs to get much stronger to hold up as a starter.
Cleveland checks in at 310 pounds and was the #1 OL in 3 cone and 20 yard shuttle. Was #3 in the 40 and #5 in the bench. He checks all the boxes and looked very good at the Senior bowl.

Jimmy keep in mind, functional strength seen on tape has a lot to do with technique. I have heard that a turf toe injury can be very painful. Cleveland did not practice all season yet still played in the games. Coaches rarely allow that to happen. Most coaches have a rule of thumb... if you can't practice you can't play! 

I don't know that much about Cleveland,.. but I think if Brian O'Neil could step in and start as an NFL rookie, I see no reason why Cleveland can't do the same. 

Now, even though Cleveland has never played guard, many analysts project him as a very good starting caliber guard at the next level.

My problem with that is he has great lateral quickness and is a very good pass blocker against speed rushers, plus 33 3/8 arms (all the traits you look for in a left tackle). The Vikings drafted him as a tackle, have him listed as a tackle on the official roster... and he was unquestionably ranked as a top 50 tackle prospect.

Yet our #1 need right now is probably to "improve" our pass blocking at left guard. IMO, Rieff, Kline and Cleveland can answer that problem in the short term (which the Vikings might do in an abbreviated offseason), but are those options (at left guard) good for the Vikings over the long haul looking forward to the next three or four years? Keep in mind those three guys have not really been focused on the left guard spot.  

Jimmy who would your starting five be right now? 
           

Reiff, Collins,  Bradbury,  Kline/Samia, ONeill 

@"BarrNone55" said:

@"JimmyinSD" said:

@"Carl Knowles" said:

@"JimmyinSD" said:

@"Carl Knowles" said: Warford has some NFL starts under his belt at left guard and even left tackle. So it's not like the left side is completely new for him.

The Saints started running zone blocking concepts 6 years ago.
This is what Saints Wire had to say after signing Devine Ozigbo:

He flourished in an offense that leaned heavily on outside zone blocking, which the Saints also use to great effectiveness.

I wouldn't mind seeing Kline resigned, but that hasn't happened yet and may not. Rieff's cap hit next year is a big problem. 

Ezra Cleveland is one of the strongest guys in his class and Boise State runs a similar system. He is one of our top 5 OL right now! 

It doesn't make sense to start Cleveland at left guard for one year? Or does it?

I will admit Warford is probably not the answer,.. but the Vikings have a couple question marks on the OL that need answered. 

I guess I will just need to be patient. 

You say Cleveland is one of the strongest in this class,  yet, iirc, so many predraft analysis of him talked about the need to add core strength to play at the next level, suggesting that he is not yet strong enough for the NFL.

The Vikes are currently under their cap with enough to cover their draft picks and then some,  Reiffs contract is only an issue for those that think there is a better answer at LT on the roster or somebody that can come in and do the job better for less,  I havent seen that player yet.  Hes still the second best OL we have on the roster and plays the most important position outside of QB in the game..

Yes, I'm seeing those evaluations.
Lance Zierlein NFL Analyst:

Athletic left tackle able to make all outside zone blocks in the run game, but in dire need of additional mass and functional strength. Tape work can be tricky as Cleveland suffered a turf toe injury in his second game of the 2019 season and was unable to practice for much of the year. Issues anchoring and redirecting edge pressure are independent from his injury, but determining the impact of that injury on his play is challenging. He plays with patience and technique but lacks base width and contact balance. Cleveland has the athleticism to play swing tackle for a zone-based offense but needs to get much stronger to hold up as a starter.
Cleveland checks in at 310 pounds and was the #1 OL in 3 cone and 20 yard shuttle. Was #3 in the 40 and #5 in the bench. He checks all the boxes and looked very good at the Senior bowl.

Jimmy keep in mind, functional strength seen on tape has a lot to do with technique. I have heard that a turf toe injury can be very painful. Cleveland did not practice all season yet still played in the games. Coaches rarely allow that to happen. Most coaches have a rule of thumb... if you can't practice you can't play! 

I don't know that much about Cleveland,.. but I think if Brian O'Neil could step in and start as an NFL rookie, I see no reason why Cleveland can't do the same. 

Now, even though Cleveland has never played guard, many analysts project him as a very good starting caliber guard at the next level.

My problem with that is he has great lateral quickness and is a very good pass blocker against speed rushers, plus 33 3/8 arms (all the traits you look for in a left tackle). The Vikings drafted him as a tackle, have him listed as a tackle on the official roster... and he was unquestionably ranked as a top 50 tackle prospect.

Yet our #1 need right now is probably to "improve" our pass blocking at left guard. IMO, Rieff, Kline and Cleveland can answer that problem in the short term (which the Vikings might do in an abbreviated offseason), but are those options (at left guard) good for the Vikings over the long haul looking forward to the next three or four years? Keep in mind those three guys have not really been focused on the left guard spot.  

Jimmy who would your starting five be right now? 
           

Reiff, Collins,  Bradbury,  Kline/Samia, ONeill 

Collins is such a tease...I'd really like Kline back on the roster asap...he has plenty of experience at LG, so if Samia is really all that, BAM, suddenly we are up to mediocre to average on the OL...rare air for this franchise...

If Collins can stay healthy, the sky is the limit. I think his best football is still ahead of him.

@"Carl Knowles" said: If Collins can stay healthy, the sky is the limit. I think his best football is still ahead of him.

ONeill, Bradburry, Collins, Udoh

Cleveland becoming ONeil 2020 and a slide of Udoh inside would give you the line of youth and promise

Cleveland-Collins-Bradburry-Udoh-ONeil

What if Gabe Jackson from the Raiders becomes available?  Would there be any takers, he's a potential cut and a true left guard.

Just a little devils advocate:

LT - Reiff most of us think is average and some think below average.  I am in the average scale.  Cleveland is a rookie who plays the most difficult position on the OL at LT.  He played in the Mountain West so not a powerhouse conference. He may not be ready to start until late this year or maybe after. Probably needs to gain some weight.

LG - Elflein - below average and not on a positive trend.  A. Collins has appeared in 2 games over the years.  Missed all of 2018 with preseason injury.  Was injured a lot in college as well.  

C - Bradburry - most analyst indicate Bradburry had an average rookie year.  I thought Elflein had a better rookie year at Center and then the injury bug sent him into a spiral.

RG - Dozier - played in all 16 games for us last season with 4 starts.  We cut Kline who started most of the season with a few missed for injuries.  Samia appeared in 2 games last year as a rookie.  

RT - O'Neill - I think is an above average RT but some think just average.  R. Hill a good veteran swing tackle who can fill in at either R or L.  Udoh a 6th rounder last year appeared in 1 game last year.  

Sprinkle in some of our late rounders this year and I just don't see a OL that is even average.  Reiff is another year older, and also was not a very good Guard 4 years ago with the Lions, Cleveland might not be ready, Elf needs to be replaced, Bradburry needs to progress in year 2, Dozier is a vet but could not beat out Kline who we cut, is Samia ready after having a few good snap highlights against the Bears, and RT with O'Neill and Hill is all set and above average with a chance to be really good if O'Neill keeps taking steps.  

I think we should be looking very hard at any veteran Guards that are cut.  Warford, I'm told mostly on here, may not be a perfect fit for our ZBS but I am pretty sure the Saints played some ZBS over his 3 years and he was an all pro all 3 years which is 3 more than the rest of the OL.  We have about 12.5 million in cap space.  I would like it spent on the interior OL.