How much of the potential improvement comes from...

We had a rookie intern offensive coordinator who needed support from veteran coaches to make his vision palatable paired with an $84 million dollar QB who was brought in and paid largely as a complete product. It's easy for me to laugh and wonder who really was coaching who...

I think a lot of improvement comes from ending that. Kirk can't be the only "established" person running the offense or he naturally won't be pushed to keep growing/evolving. With Kirk being a career QB, so far into his career and dealing with multiple offensive systems/coordinators himself, he's seen a lot... that has to suck when you're a rookie coordinator walking into a locker room after a loss and now you have to sell these vets on what they need to do to improve through your much more limited experience.

It's a far more challenging work relationship for Kirk - Kirk's a professional - I like the idea.

B: Maybe not so much surround but definitely in front of.

I think the supporting cast of skill positions is plenty good enough "surround" him.

Edit: lol if I put a B & ) you get a sunglass cool emoji.  Hence B)

It's C by a mile. Boy Wonder OC couldn't make in-game adjustments. He almost walked out of the locker room after getting blanked by the Broncos in the 1st half looking to try the same thing again. 

And that's where Magic's point comes in. We know Kevin almost didn't go Shotgun/Hurry Up because Cousins told the world in an interview after the game. The QB told the world that his uber-green OC almost didn't pull the trigger on abandoning a gameplan that did squadoosh at home against a team with a losing record. Granted, that was a pretty good Defense, but there had already been signs of Defenses slowing down Dalvin before the Denver game.

Where was the adjustment in Seattle prior to the 4th Quarter? Or in the 2nd Green Bay game? Or in San Francisco? Kevin Stefanski was incapable of reading the situation and adjusting during the game the vast majority or his tenure as an OC.

Do any of you seriously think Gary Kubiak is that stubborn? He's won with Manning when he couldn't throw more than 15 yards down the field. And Average to Below Average QBs in Houston. He's turned nobodies into great running backs. Built Offensive Lines out of less than what he already has investment-wise in Minnesota. 

He's the proven commodity. Not the trendy Boy Wonder with zero track record. The difference will impact Cousins, Diggs and Thielen, Irv and Rudy and Cook and Mattison more than most here think. The biggest concern, ironically, is his health. 

@"purplefaithful" said: A) KC getting better? B ). KC getting a better surround? C). Better play calling? D). Other?

C. If the line isn't shored up whomever is calling plays needs to either wise up or be less stubborn. If your line clearly cant pass protect you cant keep running these long drawn out plays. That allows d lines added time to feast on shitty pass protection. 

The best we can hope for is incremental growth. Hopefully that is enough to be in the mix again come playoff time. 

A better OL is a pretty strong deodorant for all that stinks...

@"BarrNone55" said: A better OL is a pretty strong deodorant for all that stinks...

Great deodorant, bad branding for those of us who are crazy OCD about showering.

Stefanski had some duds but I'm not sure he's the walking garbage can some of you are implying.
It's not like he got run out of the league because he was so bad... he got promoted! Time will tell if you guys are right about him but I don't think it's 100% certain you are. Also if you think he was so bad, then why did the Vikings hire him in the first place? And why do we change OCs every year? Why doesn't the head coach of the football team take ownership of the offense?

Placing most of the blame for the Vikings bad losses last season on Stefanski is easy to do because he's gone, but I'm not sure if that's fair. Like I said, time will tell.
The obvious answer to the question is A. The POTENTIAL improvement gained by Kirk becoming a cool under pressure, fleet of foot, big armed beast at QB is that we win multiple Super Bowls.
But since that's not happening, I'll answer B. Shore up the lines.

@"FSUVike" said: It's C by a mile. Boy Wonder OC couldn't make in-game adjustments. He almost walked out of the locker room after getting blanked by the Broncos in the 1st half looking to try the same thing again. 

And that's where Magic's point comes in. We know Kevin almost didn't go Shotgun/Hurry Up because Cousins told the world in an interview after the game. The QB told the world that his uber-green OC almost didn't pull the trigger on abandoning a gameplan that did squadoosh at home against a team with a losing record. Granted, that was a pretty good Defense, but there had already been signs of Defenses slowing down Dalvin before the Denver game.

Where was the adjustment in Seattle prior to the 4th Quarter? Or in the 2nd Green Bay game? Or in San Francisco? Kevin Stefanski was incapable of reading the situation and adjusting during the game the vast majority or his tenure as an OC.

Do any of you seriously think Gary Kubiak is that stubborn? He's won with Manning when he couldn't throw more than 15 yards down the field. And Average to Below Average QBs in Houston. He's turned nobodies into great running backs. Built Offensive Lines out of less than what he already has investment-wise in Minnesota. 

He's the proven commodity. Not the trendy Boy Wonder with zero track record. The difference will impact Cousins, Diggs and Thielen, Irv and Rudy and Cook and Mattison more than most here think. The biggest concern, ironically, is his health. 

@"pattersaur" said:

Stefanski had some duds but I'm not sure he's the walking garbage can some of you are implying. It's not like he got run out of the league because he was so bad... he got promoted! Time will tell if you guys are right about him but I don't think it's 100% certain you are. Also if you think he was so bad, then why did the Vikings hire him in the first place? And why do we change OCs every year? Why doesn't the head coach of the football team take ownership of the offense?

Placing most of the blame for the Vikings bad losses last season on Stefanski is easy to do because he's gone, but I'm not sure if that's fair. Like I said, time will tell.
The obvious answer to the question is A. The POTENTIAL improvement gained by Kirk becoming a cool under pressure, fleet of foot, big armed beast at QB is that we win multiple Super Bowls.
But since that's not happening, I'll answer B. Shore up the lines.

@"comet52" said:

@"FSUVike" said: It's C by a mile. Boy Wonder OC couldn't make in-game adjustments. He almost walked out of the locker room after getting blanked by the Broncos in the 1st half looking to try the same thing again. 

And that's where Magic's point comes in. We know Kevin almost didn't go Shotgun/Hurry Up because Cousins told the world in an interview after the game. The QB told the world that his uber-green OC almost didn't pull the trigger on abandoning a gameplan that did squadoosh at home against a team with a losing record. Granted, that was a pretty good Defense, but there had already been signs of Defenses slowing down Dalvin before the Denver game.

Where was the adjustment in Seattle prior to the 4th Quarter? Or in the 2nd Green Bay game? Or in San Francisco? Kevin Stefanski was incapable of reading the situation and adjusting during the game the vast majority or his tenure as an OC.

Do any of you seriously think Gary Kubiak is that stubborn? He's won with Manning when he couldn't throw more than 15 yards down the field. And Average to Below Average QBs in Houston. He's turned nobodies into great running backs. Built Offensive Lines out of less than what he already has investment-wise in Minnesota. 

He's the proven commodity. Not the trendy Boy Wonder with zero track record. The difference will impact Cousins, Diggs and Thielen, Irv and Rudy and Cook and Mattison more than most here think. The biggest concern, ironically, is his health. 

What you're implying is that Kubiak sat up in the booth and watched Stefanski stumble and didn't say a thing, didn't lend a hand or try to fix it?   What was his job then?   Or was Stefanski too stubborn to listen?   

@"FSUVike" said:

@"comet52" said:

@"FSUVike" said: It's C by a mile. Boy Wonder OC couldn't make in-game adjustments. He almost walked out of the locker room after getting blanked by the Broncos in the 1st half looking to try the same thing again. 

And that's where Magic's point comes in. We know Kevin almost didn't go Shotgun/Hurry Up because Cousins told the world in an interview after the game. The QB told the world that his uber-green OC almost didn't pull the trigger on abandoning a gameplan that did squadoosh at home against a team with a losing record. Granted, that was a pretty good Defense, but there had already been signs of Defenses slowing down Dalvin before the Denver game.

Where was the adjustment in Seattle prior to the 4th Quarter? Or in the 2nd Green Bay game? Or in San Francisco? Kevin Stefanski was incapable of reading the situation and adjusting during the game the vast majority or his tenure as an OC.

Do any of you seriously think Gary Kubiak is that stubborn? He's won with Manning when he couldn't throw more than 15 yards down the field. And Average to Below Average QBs in Houston. He's turned nobodies into great running backs. Built Offensive Lines out of less than what he already has investment-wise in Minnesota. 

He's the proven commodity. Not the trendy Boy Wonder with zero track record. The difference will impact Cousins, Diggs and Thielen, Irv and Rudy and Cook and Mattison more than most here think. The biggest concern, ironically, is his health. 

What you're implying is that Kubiak sat up in the booth and watched Stefanski stumble and didn't say a thing, didn't lend a hand or try to fix it?   What was his job then?   Or was Stefanski too stubborn to listen?   

His job was to advise, not dictate.

@"JimmyinSD" said:

@"FSUVike" said:

@"comet52" said:

@"FSUVike" said: It's C by a mile. Boy Wonder OC couldn't make in-game adjustments. He almost walked out of the locker room after getting blanked by the Broncos in the 1st half looking to try the same thing again. 

And that's where Magic's point comes in. We know Kevin almost didn't go Shotgun/Hurry Up because Cousins told the world in an interview after the game. The QB told the world that his uber-green OC almost didn't pull the trigger on abandoning a gameplan that did squadoosh at home against a team with a losing record. Granted, that was a pretty good Defense, but there had already been signs of Defenses slowing down Dalvin before the Denver game.

Where was the adjustment in Seattle prior to the 4th Quarter? Or in the 2nd Green Bay game? Or in San Francisco? Kevin Stefanski was incapable of reading the situation and adjusting during the game the vast majority or his tenure as an OC.

Do any of you seriously think Gary Kubiak is that stubborn? He's won with Manning when he couldn't throw more than 15 yards down the field. And Average to Below Average QBs in Houston. He's turned nobodies into great running backs. Built Offensive Lines out of less than what he already has investment-wise in Minnesota. 

He's the proven commodity. Not the trendy Boy Wonder with zero track record. The difference will impact Cousins, Diggs and Thielen, Irv and Rudy and Cook and Mattison more than most here think. The biggest concern, ironically, is his health. 

What you're implying is that Kubiak sat up in the booth and watched Stefanski stumble and didn't say a thing, didn't lend a hand or try to fix it?   What was his job then?   Or was Stefanski too stubborn to listen?   

His job was to advise, not dictate.

i figured his job was to help the offense move the ball and win ball games... no matter what that takes,  and part of mentoring is to help your protege succeed and avoid pitfalls.   if he had all the answers as some want to believe and he didnt offer them to Ski in a timely manner... then WTF good was he to the team if those withheld suggestions prevented the team from getting a win?

@"FSUVike" said:

@"JimmyinSD" said:

@"FSUVike" said:

@"comet52" said:

@"FSUVike" said: It's C by a mile. Boy Wonder OC couldn't make in-game adjustments. He almost walked out of the locker room after getting blanked by the Broncos in the 1st half looking to try the same thing again. 

And that's where Magic's point comes in. We know Kevin almost didn't go Shotgun/Hurry Up because Cousins told the world in an interview after the game. The QB told the world that his uber-green OC almost didn't pull the trigger on abandoning a gameplan that did squadoosh at home against a team with a losing record. Granted, that was a pretty good Defense, but there had already been signs of Defenses slowing down Dalvin before the Denver game.

Where was the adjustment in Seattle prior to the 4th Quarter? Or in the 2nd Green Bay game? Or in San Francisco? Kevin Stefanski was incapable of reading the situation and adjusting during the game the vast majority or his tenure as an OC.

Do any of you seriously think Gary Kubiak is that stubborn? He's won with Manning when he couldn't throw more than 15 yards down the field. And Average to Below Average QBs in Houston. He's turned nobodies into great running backs. Built Offensive Lines out of less than what he already has investment-wise in Minnesota. 

He's the proven commodity. Not the trendy Boy Wonder with zero track record. The difference will impact Cousins, Diggs and Thielen, Irv and Rudy and Cook and Mattison more than most here think. The biggest concern, ironically, is his health. 

What you're implying is that Kubiak sat up in the booth and watched Stefanski stumble and didn't say a thing, didn't lend a hand or try to fix it?   What was his job then?   Or was Stefanski too stubborn to listen?   

His job was to advise, not dictate.

i figured his job was to help the offense move the ball and win ball games... no matter what that takes,  and part of mentoring is to help your protege succeed and avoid pitfalls.   if he had all the answers as some want to believe and he didnt offer them to Ski in a timely manner... then WTF good was he to the team if those withheld suggestions prevented the team from getting a win?

That's pie in the sky stuff. He was an Advisor. If Stefanski, a relatively young dude who nevertheless waited a long time to get his shot, thought he knew best what could Gary do about it, narc him out to Zimmer?

And let's talk about another dynamic. It's easy to imagine that Kevin saw De-Floppo get canned for not sticking with the run and decided he wasn't going to make that mistake. Gary Kubiak already has more trust from Zimmer as a Superbowl winning former HC than Stefanski likely ever did. It's not going to be hard for him to tell Mike that the run ain't working in a particular game and it's time to make adjustments. 

A first time OC who's predecessor got fired for not running the ball enough is being replaced by a Superbowl winning Head Coach...

@"JimmyinSD" said:

@"FSUVike" said:

@"JimmyinSD" said:

@"FSUVike" said:

@"comet52" said:

@"FSUVike" said: It's C by a mile. Boy Wonder OC couldn't make in-game adjustments. He almost walked out of the locker room after getting blanked by the Broncos in the 1st half looking to try the same thing again. 

And that's where Magic's point comes in. We know Kevin almost didn't go Shotgun/Hurry Up because Cousins told the world in an interview after the game. The QB told the world that his uber-green OC almost didn't pull the trigger on abandoning a gameplan that did squadoosh at home against a team with a losing record. Granted, that was a pretty good Defense, but there had already been signs of Defenses slowing down Dalvin before the Denver game.

Where was the adjustment in Seattle prior to the 4th Quarter? Or in the 2nd Green Bay game? Or in San Francisco? Kevin Stefanski was incapable of reading the situation and adjusting during the game the vast majority or his tenure as an OC.

Do any of you seriously think Gary Kubiak is that stubborn? He's won with Manning when he couldn't throw more than 15 yards down the field. And Average to Below Average QBs in Houston. He's turned nobodies into great running backs. Built Offensive Lines out of less than what he already has investment-wise in Minnesota. 

He's the proven commodity. Not the trendy Boy Wonder with zero track record. The difference will impact Cousins, Diggs and Thielen, Irv and Rudy and Cook and Mattison more than most here think. The biggest concern, ironically, is his health. 

What you're implying is that Kubiak sat up in the booth and watched Stefanski stumble and didn't say a thing, didn't lend a hand or try to fix it?   What was his job then?   Or was Stefanski too stubborn to listen?   

His job was to advise, not dictate.

i figured his job was to help the offense move the ball and win ball games... no matter what that takes,  and part of mentoring is to help your protege succeed and avoid pitfalls.   if he had all the answers as some want to believe and he didnt offer them to Ski in a timely manner... then WTF good was he to the team if those withheld suggestions prevented the team from getting a win?

That's pie in the sky stuff. He was an Advisor. If Stefanski, a relatively young dude who nevertheless waited a long time to get his shot, thought he knew best what could Gary do about it, narc him out to Zimmer?

And let's talk about another dynamic. It's easy to imagine that Kevin saw De-Floppo get canned for not sticking with the run and decided he wasn't going to make that mistake. Gary Kubiak already has more trust from Zimmer as a Superbowl winning former HC than Stefanski likely ever did. It's not going to be hard for him to tell Mike that the run ain't working in a particular game and it's time to make adjustments. 

A first time OC who's predecessor got fired for not running the ball enough is being replaced by a Superbowl winning Head Coach...

i hope you are right.   however I dont think Gary is going to do to much more than what we saw from Stefanski,  its just that Gary will have a better OL in front of Cousins.  IMO that is going to be the single biggest factor from last year to this year on the offense. 

@"FSUVike" said:

@"pattersaur" said:

Stefanski had some duds but I'm not sure he's the walking garbage can some of you are implying. It's not like he got run out of the league because he was so bad... he got promoted! Time will tell if you guys are right about him but I don't think it's 100% certain you are. Also if you think he was so bad, then why did the Vikings hire him in the first place? And why do we change OCs every year? Why doesn't the head coach of the football team take ownership of the offense?

Placing most of the blame for the Vikings bad losses last season on Stefanski is easy to do because he's gone, but I'm not sure if that's fair. Like I said, time will tell.
The obvious answer to the question is A. The POTENTIAL improvement gained by Kirk becoming a cool under pressure, fleet of foot, big armed beast at QB is that we win multiple Super Bowls.
But since that's not happening, I'll answer B. Shore up the lines.

Did he make in-game adjustments before the 4th Quarter in any game besides Denver?

The Cowboys of the 90's had some great weapons and a strong D, but their O line was otherworldly.  It put Aikman in the Hall.

@"Ralphie" said: The Cowboys of the 90's had some great weapons and a strong D, but their O line was otherworldly.  It put Aikman in the Hall.

Sanders runs for 2,000 minimum behind the Great Wall of Dallas...

@"pattersaur" said:

@"FSUVike" said:

@"pattersaur" said:

Stefanski had some duds but I'm not sure he's the walking garbage can some of you are implying. It's not like he got run out of the league because he was so bad... he got promoted! Time will tell if you guys are right about him but I don't think it's 100% certain you are. Also if you think he was so bad, then why did the Vikings hire him in the first place? And why do we change OCs every year? Why doesn't the head coach of the football team take ownership of the offense?

Placing most of the blame for the Vikings bad losses last season on Stefanski is easy to do because he's gone, but I'm not sure if that's fair. Like I said, time will tell.
The obvious answer to the question is A. The POTENTIAL improvement gained by Kirk becoming a cool under pressure, fleet of foot, big armed beast at QB is that we win multiple Super Bowls.
But since that's not happening, I'll answer B. Shore up the lines.

Did he make in-game adjustments before the 4th Quarter in any game besides Denver?

I mean... probably? If you definitively believe he made zero in game adjustments than my point is that's also partly on the Head Coach, the Kubiaks, and everyone around him too. Like I said you might be right, but to lay the bulk of the offensive struggles at Stef's feet when it was his FIRST SEASON, seems overly harsh. He would 100% still be our OC had he not been promoted by the Browns, and I think expecting some improvement from him year over year is reasonable too.
If Cleveland stinks on ice then we'll know you are right. But until then I'm personally not ready to trash the guy yet.