So, our QB position....

IF the medicals are good? I'd luv to see em make a move for Tua. But that's a lot of draft capital and suddenly there are holes all over the roster. 

Can they win a SB with Cousins? I think so. Its amazing the short memory of Viking fans. Cousins has his warts, but he's by far the best qb we've had since Favre. 

I think the sequence has to be what are your intentions with Zimm/RS? Everything cascades from there. 

Big decisions and suddenly, I'm being forced to trust the Wilfs with one of my favorite franchises...Paint me the color nervous, very nervous

@"JimmyinSD" said:

@"Geoff Nichols" said:

@"BarrNone55" said: Our HC and GM aren't under contract beyond this year. They will be drafting for players who can help them win in 2020. Cousins was their all in move. All 3 are tied together. At minimum they need a Super Bowl appearance or they are all gone.

This is why I've been confused as to how the Vikings are handling Zimmer & Spielman's contracts. The best course of action would be for the Wilfs to extend both and help them make an objective decision on Kirk. They're all tied together but if the Wilfs truly believe in the current staff they should allow them a shot to add another QB, as bitter as many fans would be about that. But you can't help but think they'll want to extend Kirk for the near-term benefits of added cap space in 2020 if pressing to keep their jobs. The reality is a new FO likely will want a their own QB (which could be Kirk) so you've effectively tied them to Cousins as well.

maybe they arent all in on Zim and Rick?   perhaps this is there way of lighting a fire under their asses to see if they can find a way out of this rut they seem to be stuck in?   kirks team may have been approached and maybe the team doesnt like the responses they are getting?  I know its only 2 days after the superbowl,  but I honestly thought that we would have some sort of offseason news or rumors by now about what they intend to do with the team going forward.

@"Geoff Nichols" said:

@"JimmyinSD" said:

@"Geoff Nichols" said:

@"BarrNone55" said: Our HC and GM aren't under contract beyond this year. They will be drafting for players who can help them win in 2020. Cousins was their all in move. All 3 are tied together. At minimum they need a Super Bowl appearance or they are all gone.

This is why I've been confused as to how the Vikings are handling Zimmer & Spielman's contracts. The best course of action would be for the Wilfs to extend both and help them make an objective decision on Kirk. They're all tied together but if the Wilfs truly believe in the current staff they should allow them a shot to add another QB, as bitter as many fans would be about that. But you can't help but think they'll want to extend Kirk for the near-term benefits of added cap space in 2020 if pressing to keep their jobs. The reality is a new FO likely will want a their own QB (which could be Kirk) so you've effectively tied them to Cousins as well.

maybe they arent all in on Zim and Rick?   perhaps this is there way of lighting a fire under their asses to see if they can find a way out of this rut they seem to be stuck in?   kirks team may have been approached and maybe the team doesnt like the responses they are getting?  I know its only 2 days after the superbowl,  but I honestly thought that we would have some sort of offseason news or rumors by now about what they intend to do with the team going forward.

Its obvious they're not considering they only extended (picked up option) Zimmer for a single season after last season to align his contract with Spielman. I guess my bigger point is that although its nice all three contracts are aligned it doesn't really make that much sense. It made/makes more sense to let a fresh set of eyes analyze a situation to identify how to proceed forward. So if you aren't 100% committed at this point you're better off moving on now vs. later. Alternatively if they are on-board with the current staff they should extend them for multiple season vs. a one-year band aid. 

@"MarkSP18" said:

@"Geoff Nichols" said:

@"JimmyinSD" said:

@"Geoff Nichols" said:

@"BarrNone55" said: Our HC and GM aren't under contract beyond this year. They will be drafting for players who can help them win in 2020. Cousins was their all in move. All 3 are tied together. At minimum they need a Super Bowl appearance or they are all gone.

This is why I've been confused as to how the Vikings are handling Zimmer & Spielman's contracts. The best course of action would be for the Wilfs to extend both and help them make an objective decision on Kirk. They're all tied together but if the Wilfs truly believe in the current staff they should allow them a shot to add another QB, as bitter as many fans would be about that. But you can't help but think they'll want to extend Kirk for the near-term benefits of added cap space in 2020 if pressing to keep their jobs. The reality is a new FO likely will want a their own QB (which could be Kirk) so you've effectively tied them to Cousins as well.

maybe they arent all in on Zim and Rick?   perhaps this is there way of lighting a fire under their asses to see if they can find a way out of this rut they seem to be stuck in?   kirks team may have been approached and maybe the team doesnt like the responses they are getting?  I know its only 2 days after the superbowl,  but I honestly thought that we would have some sort of offseason news or rumors by now about what they intend to do with the team going forward.

Its obvious they're not considering they only extended (picked up option) Zimmer for a single season after last season to align his contract with Spielman. I guess my bigger point is that although its nice all three contracts are aligned it doesn't really make that much sense. It made/makes more sense to let a fresh set of eyes analyze a situation to identify how to proceed forward. So if you aren't 100% committed at this point you're better off moving on now vs. later. Alternatively if they are on-board with the current staff they should extend them for multiple season vs. a one-year band aid. 

This is where the Wilfs have to show some mettle as owners.  They should make the decision.  I would.

Even if I am going to let Spielman and Zimmer stay through 2020, I would demand that we move up for a QB if I did not want to extend Cousins.

The last thing they should do is extend Cousins, get similar results and fire the entire staff, and bring in a new coach who wants a different QB.

I am hoping they are consulting with someone on the outside.

@"purplefaithful" said: IF the medicals are good? I'd luv to see em make a move for Tua. But that's a lot of draft capital and suddenly there are holes all over the roster. 

Can they win a SB with Cousins? I think so. Its amazing the short memory of Viking fans. Cousins has his warts, but he's by far the best qb we've had since Favre. 

I think the sequence has to be what are your intentions with Zimm/RS? Everything cascades from there. 

Big decisions and suddenly, I'm being forced to trust the Wilfs with one of my favorite franchises...Paint me the color nervous, very nervous

@"kmillard" said:

@"purplefaithful" said: IF the medicals are good? I'd luv to see em make a move for Tua. But that's a lot of draft capital and suddenly there are holes all over the roster. 

Can they win a SB with Cousins? I think so. Its amazing the short memory of Viking fans. Cousins has his warts, but he's by far the best qb we've had since Favre. 

I think the sequence has to be what are your intentions with Zimm/RS? Everything cascades from there. 

Big decisions and suddenly, I'm being forced to trust the Wilfs with one of my favorite franchises...Paint me the color nervous, very nervous

Yeah the Wilfs. 6 playoffs in 15 years isn't a great stretch. 

@"purplefaithful" said:

@"kmillard" said:

@"purplefaithful" said: IF the medicals are good? I'd luv to see em make a move for Tua. But that's a lot of draft capital and suddenly there are holes all over the roster. 

Can they win a SB with Cousins? I think so. Its amazing the short memory of Viking fans. Cousins has his warts, but he's by far the best qb we've had since Favre. 

I think the sequence has to be what are your intentions with Zimm/RS? Everything cascades from there. 

Big decisions and suddenly, I'm being forced to trust the Wilfs with one of my favorite franchises...Paint me the color nervous, very nervous

Yeah the Wilfs. 6 playoffs in 15 years isn't a great stretch. 

Chili was an awful decision imo. But they haven't gotten the QB right for too long either.  Is that the Wilfs mea culpa or the front office? Both?

Did they get it right enough with KC? 

In many ways the Wilfs have been exemplary owners. The infrastructure of the franchise has never been better. They've given Zimmer pretty much all he could ask for.

Mike hasn't been able to get over the hump, like too many Viking coaches before him. 

@"Geoff Nichols" said:

@"JimmyinSD" said:

@"Geoff Nichols" said:

@"BarrNone55" said: Our HC and GM aren't under contract beyond this year. They will be drafting for players who can help them win in 2020. Cousins was their all in move. All 3 are tied together. At minimum they need a Super Bowl appearance or they are all gone.

This is why I've been confused as to how the Vikings are handling Zimmer & Spielman's contracts. The best course of action would be for the Wilfs to extend both and help them make an objective decision on Kirk. They're all tied together but if the Wilfs truly believe in the current staff they should allow them a shot to add another QB, as bitter as many fans would be about that. But you can't help but think they'll want to extend Kirk for the near-term benefits of added cap space in 2020 if pressing to keep their jobs. The reality is a new FO likely will want a their own QB (which could be Kirk) so you've effectively tied them to Cousins as well.

maybe they arent all in on Zim and Rick?   perhaps this is there way of lighting a fire under their asses to see if they can find a way out of this rut they seem to be stuck in?   kirks team may have been approached and maybe the team doesnt like the responses they are getting?  I know its only 2 days after the superbowl,  but I honestly thought that we would have some sort of offseason news or rumors by now about what they intend to do with the team going forward.

Its obvious they're not considering they only extended (picked up option) Zimmer for a single season after last season to align his contract with Spielman. I guess my bigger point is that although its nice all three contracts are aligned it doesn't really make that much sense. It made/makes more sense to let a fresh set of eyes analyze a situation to identify how to proceed forward. So if you aren't 100% committed at this point you're better off moving on now vs. later. Alternatively if they are on-board with the current staff they should extend them for multiple season vs. a one-year band aid. 

@"Geoff Nichols" said: I agree the Wilfs have done everything in their power to get the team over the hump. I also think they've done a good job letting their front office dictate the direction the organization takes rather than taking their own approach. Minus maybe trading for Bradford where they wanted the FO to add a starting caliber QB. 

I also wouldn't necessarily blame it on the FO's ability to acquire high-end talent. You could argue they may retain some player on long-term deals where they didn't need to, but that hasn't led to many long-term issue to date. The coaching staff has also done an exceptional job coaching up guys. 

Basically my take is that the Vikings are just too conservative and their roster construction isn't 100% conducive to the modern NFL. You can win with a roster like the Vikings but you need to be very very good in the trenches, which we aren't. 

@"Geoff Nichols" said:

@"JimmyinSD" said:

@"Geoff Nichols" said:

@"BarrNone55" said: Our HC and GM aren't under contract beyond this year. They will be drafting for players who can help them win in 2020. Cousins was their all in move. All 3 are tied together. At minimum they need a Super Bowl appearance or they are all gone.

This is why I've been confused as to how the Vikings are handling Zimmer & Spielman's contracts. The best course of action would be for the Wilfs to extend both and help them make an objective decision on Kirk. They're all tied together but if the Wilfs truly believe in the current staff they should allow them a shot to add another QB, as bitter as many fans would be about that. But you can't help but think they'll want to extend Kirk for the near-term benefits of added cap space in 2020 if pressing to keep their jobs. The reality is a new FO likely will want a their own QB (which could be Kirk) so you've effectively tied them to Cousins as well.

maybe they arent all in on Zim and Rick?   perhaps this is there way of lighting a fire under their asses to see if they can find a way out of this rut they seem to be stuck in?   kirks team may have been approached and maybe the team doesnt like the responses they are getting?  I know its only 2 days after the superbowl,  but I honestly thought that we would have some sort of offseason news or rumors by now about what they intend to do with the team going forward.

Its obvious they're not considering they only extended (picked up option) Zimmer for a single season after last season to align his contract with Spielman. I guess my bigger point is that although its nice all three contracts are aligned it doesn't really make that much sense. It made/makes more sense to let a fresh set of eyes analyze a situation to identify how to proceed forward. So if you aren't 100% committed at this point you're better off moving on now vs. later. Alternatively if they are on-board with the current staff they should extend them for multiple season vs. a one-year band aid. 

@"pattersaur" said:

@"Geoff Nichols" said:

@"JimmyinSD" said:

@"Geoff Nichols" said:

@"BarrNone55" said: Our HC and GM aren't under contract beyond this year. They will be drafting for players who can help them win in 2020. Cousins was their all in move. All 3 are tied together. At minimum they need a Super Bowl appearance or they are all gone.

This is why I've been confused as to how the Vikings are handling Zimmer & Spielman's contracts. The best course of action would be for the Wilfs to extend both and help them make an objective decision on Kirk. They're all tied together but if the Wilfs truly believe in the current staff they should allow them a shot to add another QB, as bitter as many fans would be about that. But you can't help but think they'll want to extend Kirk for the near-term benefits of added cap space in 2020 if pressing to keep their jobs. The reality is a new FO likely will want a their own QB (which could be Kirk) so you've effectively tied them to Cousins as well.

maybe they arent all in on Zim and Rick?   perhaps this is there way of lighting a fire under their asses to see if they can find a way out of this rut they seem to be stuck in?   kirks team may have been approached and maybe the team doesnt like the responses they are getting?  I know its only 2 days after the superbowl,  but I honestly thought that we would have some sort of offseason news or rumors by now about what they intend to do with the team going forward.

Its obvious they're not considering they only extended (picked up option) Zimmer for a single season after last season to align his contract with Spielman. I guess my bigger point is that although its nice all three contracts are aligned it doesn't really make that much sense. It made/makes more sense to let a fresh set of eyes analyze a situation to identify how to proceed forward. So if you aren't 100% committed at this point you're better off moving on now vs. later. Alternatively if they are on-board with the current staff they should extend them for multiple season vs. a one-year band aid. 

Letting all 4 of these key guys have 'lame duck' seasons next year with zero commitment beyond that is borderline unprecedented. I'd argue it's unprecedented for a reason: Because it's dumb.
8 years - Rick top GM experience6 years - Zimmer HC experience5 years - Kirk full-time starter QB experience3 years - Dalvin full-time starter RB experience (been hurt a lot though)
This is MORE than enough time for the Wilfs (and fans) to have formed educated opinions about all four guys. Extend who you want, and move on from who you want. Be decisive!
To essentially say, "ehhh, we need one more year to decide..." is a waste of precious time, and is a surprising move to see from such savvy and cutthroat(?) businessmen.

@"JimmyinSD" said:

@"pattersaur" said:

@"Geoff Nichols" said:

@"JimmyinSD" said:

@"Geoff Nichols" said:

@"BarrNone55" said: Our HC and GM aren't under contract beyond this year. They will be drafting for players who can help them win in 2020. Cousins was their all in move. All 3 are tied together. At minimum they need a Super Bowl appearance or they are all gone.

This is why I've been confused as to how the Vikings are handling Zimmer & Spielman's contracts. The best course of action would be for the Wilfs to extend both and help them make an objective decision on Kirk. They're all tied together but if the Wilfs truly believe in the current staff they should allow them a shot to add another QB, as bitter as many fans would be about that. But you can't help but think they'll want to extend Kirk for the near-term benefits of added cap space in 2020 if pressing to keep their jobs. The reality is a new FO likely will want a their own QB (which could be Kirk) so you've effectively tied them to Cousins as well.

maybe they arent all in on Zim and Rick?   perhaps this is there way of lighting a fire under their asses to see if they can find a way out of this rut they seem to be stuck in?   kirks team may have been approached and maybe the team doesnt like the responses they are getting?  I know its only 2 days after the superbowl,  but I honestly thought that we would have some sort of offseason news or rumors by now about what they intend to do with the team going forward.

Its obvious they're not considering they only extended (picked up option) Zimmer for a single season after last season to align his contract with Spielman. I guess my bigger point is that although its nice all three contracts are aligned it doesn't really make that much sense. It made/makes more sense to let a fresh set of eyes analyze a situation to identify how to proceed forward. So if you aren't 100% committed at this point you're better off moving on now vs. later. Alternatively if they are on-board with the current staff they should extend them for multiple season vs. a one-year band aid. 

Letting all 4 of these key guys have 'lame duck' seasons next year with zero commitment beyond that is borderline unprecedented. I'd argue it's unprecedented for a reason: Because it's dumb.
8 years - Rick top GM experience6 years - Zimmer HC experience5 years - Kirk full-time starter QB experience3 years - Dalvin full-time starter RB experience (been hurt a lot though)
This is MORE than enough time for the Wilfs (and fans) to have formed educated opinions about all four guys. Extend who you want, and move on from who you want. Be decisive!
To essentially say, "ehhh, we need one more year to decide..." is a waste of precious time, and is a surprising move to see from such savvy and cutthroat(?) businessmen.

they have their confidants and mentors in this venture and I am betting they are getting mixed messages and are not sure what to do and are hoping that by checking that their hand will look better once the river hits the table.

@"pattersaur" said:

@"Geoff Nichols" said:

@"JimmyinSD" said:

@"Geoff Nichols" said:

@"BarrNone55" said: Our HC and GM aren't under contract beyond this year. They will be drafting for players who can help them win in 2020. Cousins was their all in move. All 3 are tied together. At minimum they need a Super Bowl appearance or they are all gone.

This is why I've been confused as to how the Vikings are handling Zimmer & Spielman's contracts. The best course of action would be for the Wilfs to extend both and help them make an objective decision on Kirk. They're all tied together but if the Wilfs truly believe in the current staff they should allow them a shot to add another QB, as bitter as many fans would be about that. But you can't help but think they'll want to extend Kirk for the near-term benefits of added cap space in 2020 if pressing to keep their jobs. The reality is a new FO likely will want a their own QB (which could be Kirk) so you've effectively tied them to Cousins as well.

maybe they arent all in on Zim and Rick?   perhaps this is there way of lighting a fire under their asses to see if they can find a way out of this rut they seem to be stuck in?   kirks team may have been approached and maybe the team doesnt like the responses they are getting?  I know its only 2 days after the superbowl,  but I honestly thought that we would have some sort of offseason news or rumors by now about what they intend to do with the team going forward.

Its obvious they're not considering they only extended (picked up option) Zimmer for a single season after last season to align his contract with Spielman. I guess my bigger point is that although its nice all three contracts are aligned it doesn't really make that much sense. It made/makes more sense to let a fresh set of eyes analyze a situation to identify how to proceed forward. So if you aren't 100% committed at this point you're better off moving on now vs. later. Alternatively if they are on-board with the current staff they should extend them for multiple season vs. a one-year band aid. 

Letting all 4 of these key guys have 'lame duck' seasons next year with zero commitment beyond that is borderline unprecedented. I'd argue it's unprecedented for a reason: Because it's dumb.
8 years - Rick top GM experience6 years - Zimmer HC experience5 years - Kirk full-time starter QB experience3 years - Dalvin full-time starter RB experience (been hurt a lot though)
This is MORE than enough time for the Wilfs (and fans) to have formed educated opinions about all four guys. Extend who you want, and move on from who you want. Be decisive!
To essentially say, "ehhh, we need one more year to decide..." is a waste of precious time, and is a surprising move to see from such savvy and cutthroat(?) businessmen.

@"pattersaur" said:

To essentially say, "ehhh, we need one more year to decide..." is a waste of precious time, and is a surprising move to see from such savvy and cutthroat(?) businessmen.

@"comet52" said:

@"pattersaur" said:

To essentially say, "ehhh, we need one more year to decide..." is a waste of precious time, and is a surprising move to see from such savvy and cutthroat(?) businessmen.

Maybe they're not as savvy as you think.   They inherited a fortune and are conservative (or vindictive if you got into biz with them in NJ) stewards of the dough.   Not guys who take risks or build a business from the ground up.   So the approach is the same - accumulate a lot of talent/stuff and assume that = success.   In football that might work sometimes but usually winning the SB involves some risky moves, like jumping up and paying big to grab Mahomes.   Stealing Belichik from the Jets (and recognizing there was something there when the track record from Cleveland said otherwise).   Taking a chance on an unknown or unproven coach. Cutting loose from declining vets and taking chances with young talent, etc.

The idea that you keep the same guys around for years and keep paying big $ for the familiar and somehow it's all incremental progress to a SB is a very conservative concept.   And in sports it rarely works that way because of how short careers are and how quickly athletes can age/decline.   A smart Viking organization would have recognized some of those situations and cut loose from certain players.  Or in some cases even managed to get value back in trade before there was no value left.   It would stop obsessing with loyalty to guys who collect millions regardless of warm fuzzies from ownership and be the "cutthroat" business you are imagining.

The same crew will likely give you the same results next year.   The part I don't get is, say a miracle happens (and I do mean miracle) and they win the SB.  Now you've got coach, g.m. and qb all free agents with a freshly minted SB resume under their belts and they hit the market with suitors with cash ready to pay big.   Where does that leave the Vikings?   

If nothing else you should extend RS and MZ just in case.   Otherwise you are saying you don't believe they can get it done which begs the question why not cut them loose now?   Cousins extension-not so much because I don't think his m.o. changes at this point - he will still play tight most of the time on the big stage and I think he's a known commodity at this point.  Only the insular, conservative and imho inept-at-football Viking ownership would be likely to reward him with a huge extension deal.   If he hits f.a. after another 10-6 one and done type season he'd have to find a g.m. who is totally fooled by stats and doesn't pay attention to the rest of his makeup to land another top $ deal.   But then again teams do dumb things all the time.

@"JR44" said: Cousins has been unable to beat teams with winning records throughout his career and I do not see anything from him that says that is going to change.  We can extend him and continue to follow the painful trend of lighting it up against Detroit and losing to every good team or we can make a move.  

The Chiefs were in the exact same situation with Alex Smith a few years ago, made a gutsy move to trade up and select Mahomes instead of staying with Smith.  I think that worked out pretty well for them.  I don't know if the answer is in the draft, trade or FA, but I am pretty sure it is not in house.  

I dont think Mahomes has one but Roethlisberger probably does, right?

@"mjollnir_k" said:

@"JR44" said: Cousins has been unable to beat teams with winning records throughout his career and I do not see anything from him that says that is going to change.  We can extend him and continue to follow the painful trend of lighting it up against Detroit and losing to every good team or we can make a move.  

The Chiefs were in the exact same situation with Alex Smith a few years ago, made a gutsy move to trade up and select Mahomes instead of staying with Smith.  I think that worked out pretty well for them.  I don't know if the answer is in the draft, trade or FA, but I am pretty sure it is not in house.  

Outside of Brady and Wilson name a QB with a winning record against winning teams.  

@"JimmyinSD" said:

has to be the most confusing and meaningless stat out there,  does is me they had a winning record when they played them or at the end of the season?  also what does it mean if a QB has a good game but the defense shits the bed,  or  if a QB loses to a team with a winning record,  but was severely limited that particular week and wasnt favored?

@"JR44" said:

@"JimmyinSD" said:

has to be the most confusing and meaningless stat out there,  does is me they had a winning record when they played them or at the end of the season?  also what does it mean if a QB has a good game but the defense shits the bed,  or  if a QB loses to a team with a winning record,  but was severely limited that particular week and wasnt favored?

Yeah, how a QB plays in the clutch is meaningless  :o