Realizations after today's games

I think the offensive play-calling in this game was really good at times on both sides. I was envious.

That Titan team is very reminiscent of AP in his hey-day with Ponder. Run 1st, good D, god help em if they fall behind. 

Anyways, I digress...

We saw the positive impact of the ZBS, but I will say (in retrospect) I much more like the way Shurmur called and managed a  game vs Stefanski...

Edit: I'll add Vrabel, Reid and Shanahan have put together some fantastic staffs. 

@"TBro" said:

"..... We will not win anything under Zimmer's Run First philosophy which is why I'm ready to move on and not extend his deal......"

 

@"muydnbejydk" said:

@"TBro" said:

"..... We will not win anything under Zimmer's Run First philosophy which is why I'm ready to move on and not extend his deal......"

 

   
You mean, like the 49er's philosophy?
    Need improvement in the O-line, but the philosophy is sound. 

Stefanski would have been a fool (imo) not to take the promotion to HC. I would have been disappointed if Edwards and Gray had stayed.

So I dont see this as coaches bailing on the Vikings and Zimmer.

There are only so many ways we can say the OL needs improvement - and I think the play calling too. 

The window aint as wide as it was with cornerstones on D now the wrong side of 30. But it aint shut either -- too many weapons and pieces still in place. 

We all know they need 4 upgrades: LOT, LOG, CB, 3t. This team would be damn competitive if they can pull that off. 

I'm a little confused by the OP. 6 of the final 8 playoff teams were very clearly run-first and play defense teams. And the lesson we're supposed to take from that is pass the ball? Jimmy G completed 6 passes yesterday. 11 against us. Maybe there was some creativity in those passes? But I don't see how that could possibly be anyone's take-away lesson from this year's playoffs. 

@"MaroonBells" said: I'm a little confused by the OP. 6 of the final 8 playoff teams were very clearly run-first and play defense teams. And the lesson we're supposed to take from that is pass the ball? Jimmy G completed 6 passes yesterday. 11 against us. Maybe there was some creativity in those passes? But I don't see how that could possibly be anyone's take-away lesson from this year's playoffs. 

Which is exactly what Zimmer has been attempting to do here...they just dont have the horses up-front on offense and the D got older on them. They need to be more creative on offense and build on the strength of the ZBS. Not sad Stefanski is gone, miss Shurmur. 

Its certainly been 6 years of whack-a-mole during zimmers tenure. Mixed in with a healthy dose of snake-bit (see AP suspension, Teddy' leg falling off, Bradford etc.)

Maybe thats just the NFL in general? SF was what 3 or 4 wins not too long ago and everyone was critical of the front office, handsome JG etc.

Build the OL and DL.  And be creative in your attempts to run the ball.  I think the Vikings had about 6 running plays- and once basic scheme (outside zone).  THAT'S the key.  Teams (obviously) can win by playing ball control offense and good defense.  But if you can't control the ball (i.e. sustain drives), then you can't win that way.  Our scheme was too easy (for good teams) to stop.  That's on Stefanski.

One thing I kept noticing was that the announcers were giving the KC offensive line a lot of credit, yet Mahomes was pretty much scrambling on every play.  It reminded me of Keenum in 2017, no one complained about the OL then.  The QB has to help the OL out and move, not every pocket is going to be perfect.  Every QB that played this weekend was able to keep plays alive by moving.  It is like watching a different game.  Our QB never moves a step, either the OL keeps everyone out or he is going to get sacked or have to rush the pass.  Every KC scoring drive was keyed by Mahomes extending the play.  We just never see that and we are not going to win against good teams without it.  No wonder why our WRs get so frustrated.  

I think you're spot-on JR...

I also think our reality is KC will not move around like a Mahomes, Rogers, Brady...Let alone a Watson or Jackson.

So the Vikings have no choice but to improve the OL and keep working with him on developing some better in the pocket movement.

To his defense, I bet a bunch of that pressure is right up the middle - about where Bradbury, Elf and Reiff play. 

No QB likes the pressure up the middle...

To be fair, Mahomes doesn't step up in the pocket. He sees edge pressure and leaves the pocket...because he can. That doesn't mean he should. He also left a lot of easy checkdowns to wide open dudes in the left flat so he could extend the play and look for chunks, which mostly weren't there so he ran a ton.

I live in Kansas City and there's some fear here that he keeps running like that and he'll take a season-ending hit. Patrick and Andy both have acknowledged he needs to be a smidge more patient in the pocket.

But I didn't see much of Jimmy G extending plays with his feet. He bootlegs ala Cousins but isn't exactly in the same League as the guys who extend plays with their legs. Tannehill's scrambling didn't exactly help Tennessee out either. 

The 'realization' that I think many here are missing is that Parity is Back and there are many ways to win it all. New England is dead. Other traditional powers like New Orleans and Pittsburgh are fading.

There are no Elite Teams. At least not this year. A busted former 1st Round QB just took a run-first team to the Championship Game after knocking off a talentless Pats team and upsetting the runningest QB ever, both on the road. With a killer blend of an unstoppable runner and really smart timing of Play Action Passing (Cousins' forte).

But guess what? Tennessee can re-sign both Tannehill and Henry and I bet they don't even get as far next season. They are too heavily oriented towards running and Play Action and when the rush was taken away by a combination of the Chiefs starting to slow it down and finally falling behind on the Leaderboard they couldn't adjust.

Meanwhile, Kansas City struggled early against the plan Vrabel had for them until they adjusted and started running more.

In the better Conference it was a matchup of two teams with stacked Line play on both sides of the ball. San Francisco had BOTH the better D-Line and the better O-Line. And the better playcallers. Checkmate.

There were two major lessons from yesterday. 1. In the AFC the team that was able the adjust in-game won. And it wasn't hard for them to do because they are multi-dimensional. Tennessee couldn't adjust without the threat of Play Action. 2. You need really good Line Play. All 4 teams have inarguably better O-Lines than Minnesota has. The NFC teams had better D-Lines. The Chiefs have Chris Jones, maybe the second best DT in the NFL. The Titans were a little more blitz dependent.

For the Vikings to get better they need to beef up the Offensive Line and add a legit 3T to the Defense. But even that won't be enough. The team simply must develop a Passing Attack that isn't so dependent on Play Action and Boot/Waggle plays. Stefanski seemed unwilling to do this for some reason. Exhibit A is waiting until they were about to leave the Lockerroom after halftime before deciding to go Hurry Up/Shotgun down 20 to Denver.

There's plenty of evidence over two seasons that tempo and Shotgun can help Kirk spread the ball around and march the team down the field 1 dink and 1 dunk at a time. And take shots as well. We know the team has the players to accomplish it.

The big question will be why didn't they do it more? Was it Zimmer? Sounds like Stefanski was the one reluctant to go Hurry Up against Denver. So I tend to lean towards him being stubborn about wanting to stick to the run. We saw Shanahan feel so good about Matty Ice and his passing attack that he couldn't get out of his own way and call enough runs to prevent choking a Superbowl away. Coordinators get stubborn and I think Stefanski was no different. Hell, even Andy Reid sometimes forgets he's allowed to call running plays.

For me the key is upgrading LG and 3T to League Average and hopefully getting a better LT. But it has to be paired with an OC that can develop a legitimate Passing Attack that isn't overly reliant on Play Action. And that OC needs to be open to making in-game adjustments when the running game is stalled out.

Sounds like a lot but really isn't. Virtually anyone is an upgrade from Elf and Shamar. If Klint is the pick he should be a little more open minded about taking advice from his father regarding not being too stubborn. And the NFC team in the Superbowl is, in my opinion, about to get exposed at QB. They are very good, but not Elite. Minnesota is good and the road to very good is not that long.

@"purplefaithful" said: Stefanski would have been a fool (imo) not to take the promotion to HC. I would have been disappointed if Edwards and Gray had stayed.

So I dont see this as coaches bailing on the Vikings and Zimmer.

There are only so many ways we can say the OL needs improvement - and I think the play calling too. 

The window aint as wide as it was with cornerstones on D now the wrong side of 30. But it aint shut either -- too many weapons and pieces still in place. 

We all know they need 4 upgrades: LOT, LOG, CB, 3t. This team would be damn competitive if they can pull that off. 

For as run dominate as San Francisco is, why didn't we or Green Bay line up in the Kansas City vs. Tennessee defensive look? Why didn't either team put 10 guys in the box to stop it? 

It has everything to do with their formations and motions combined with incredibly stressful play designs behind it all - along with a QB smart enough to breakdown his matchups and make the right throw time after time. Teams cannot commit to stacking the box against the 49ers without getting frustrated - it doesn't take a huge day from Garoppolo to do it. I think Kansas City will have a very hard time defending the 49ers type of passing attack if they commit to stopping the run like they did against Henry.

The 49ers are great at shifting gears and staying on top of a defense. Their entire offense looks like gold around what they do.

Stefanski seemed unwilling to do this for some reason. Exhibit A is waiting until they were about to leave the Lockerroom after halftime before deciding to go Hurry Up/Shotgun down 20 to Denver.

Why didn't the Vikings go hurry up  during a game after how well they did against Denver?

Hurry up worked and I thought for sure the Vikings would do it again on at least 1 drive in a game before the 4th quarter.....just to do it.

I don't get why Stef didn't use  hurry up as way to help the Offense and at the same time stress defenses by showing something the Vikings hadn't done.

Cook, Rudy, Smith, Diggs and Thielen present difficult matchups. And even  if a defense can match them, the Vikings can  run the ball with that group. 

Made no sense to me.

@"FSUVike" said: To be fair, Mahomes doesn't step up in the pocket. He sees edge pressure and leaves the pocket...because he can. That doesn't mean he should. He also left a lot of easy checkdowns to wide open dudes in the left flat so he could extend the play and look for chunks, which mostly weren't there so he ran a ton.

I live in Kansas City and there's some fear here that he keeps running like that and he'll take a season-ending hit. Patrick and Andy both have acknowledged he needs to be a smidge more patient in the pocket.

But I didn't see much of Jimmy G extending plays with his feet. He bootlegs ala Cousins but isn't exactly in the same League as the guys who extend plays with their legs. Tannehill's scrambling didn't exactly help Tennessee out either. 

The 'realization' that I think many here are missing is that Parity is Back and there are many ways to win it all. New England is dead. Other traditional powers like New Orleans and Pittsburgh are fading.

There are no Elite Teams. At least not this year. A busted former 1st Round QB just took a run-first team to the Championship Game after knocking off a talentless Pats team and upsetting the runningest QB ever, both on the road. With a killer blend of an unstoppable runner and really smart timing of Play Action Passing (Cousins' forte).

But guess what? Tennessee can re-sign both Tannehill and Henry and I bet they don't even get as far next season. They are too heavily oriented towards running and Play Action and when the rush was taken away by a combination of the Chiefs starting to slow it down and finally falling behind on the Leaderboard they couldn't adjust.

Meanwhile, Kansas City struggled early against the plan Vrabel had for them until they adjusted and started running more.

In the better Conference it was a matchup of two teams with stacked Line play on both sides of the ball. San Francisco had BOTH the better D-Line and the better O-Line. And the better playcallers. Checkmate.

There were two major lessons from yesterday. 1. In the AFC the team that was able the adjust in-game won. And it wasn't hard for them to do because they are multi-dimensional. Tennessee couldn't adjust without the threat of Play Action. 2. You need really good Line Play. All 4 teams have inarguably better O-Lines than Minnesota has. The NFC teams had better D-Lines. The Chiefs have Chris Jones, maybe the second best DT in the NFL. The Titans were a little more blitz dependent.

For the Vikings to get better they need to beef up the Offensive Line and add a legit 3T to the Defense. But even that won't be enough. The team simply must develop a Passing Attack that isn't so dependent on Play Action and Boot/Waggle plays. Stefanski seemed unwilling to do this for some reason. Exhibit A is waiting until they were about to leave the Lockerroom after halftime before deciding to go Hurry Up/Shotgun down 20 to Denver.

There's plenty of evidence over two seasons that tempo and Shotgun can help Kirk spread the ball around and march the team down the field 1 dink and 1 dunk at a time. And take shots as well. We know the team has the players to accomplish it.

The big question will be why didn't they do it more? Was it Zimmer? Sounds like Stefanski was the one reluctant to go Hurry Up against Denver. So I tend to lean towards him being stubborn about wanting to stick to the run. We saw Shanahan feel so good about Matty Ice and his passing attack that he couldn't get out of his own way and call enough runs to prevent choking a Superbowl away. Coordinators get stubborn and I think Stefanski was no different. Hell, even Andy Reid sometimes forgets he's allowed to call running plays.

For me the key is upgrading LG and 3T to League Average and hopefully getting a better LT. But it has to be paired with an OC that can develop a legitimate Passing Attack that isn't overly reliant on Play Action. And that OC needs to be open to making in-game adjustments when the running game is stalled out.

Sounds like a lot but really isn't. Virtually anyone is an upgrade from Elf and Shamar. If Klint is the pick he should be a little more open minded about taking advice from his father regarding not being too stubborn. And the NFC team in the Superbowl is, in my opinion, about to get exposed at QB. They are very good, but not Elite. Minnesota is good and the road to very good is not that long.