The Vikings just need an average QB to win.

1991 Redskins, 2000 Ravens, and 2006 Bears all got to the Superbowl with below average QBs.

It's all about explosives. Field flipping plays. We're not getting them from our run game or the passing game with any regularity. The one we did have was wiped out by a penalty (deep completion to Addison). The other we had was Kyler's 30+ yard scramble.

Low and behold on the one explosive, we got a TD. Rest of the drives ended in turnover on down, punt, or FG attempts. Kyler has to start taking some chances downfield and extend plays with his legs.

Very underwhelmed with his play this season even though I was told he is a two-time Pro Bowl QB, has all these gaudy stats, best surround of his career. If we're not seeing good offense after this next month of games, we're not making a Super Bowl run. The defense will give us a shot, but it ain't happening if it's 50/50 we score 20 points or more in a game.

MAD GAINZ wrote:

It's all about explosives. Field flipping plays. We're not getting them from our run game or the passing game with any regularity. The one we did have was wiped out by a penalty (deep completion to Addison). The other we had was Kyler's 30+ yard scramble.
Low and behold on the one explosive, we got a TD. Rest of the drives ended in turnover on down, punt, or FG attempts. Kyler has to start taking some chances downfield and extend plays with his legs.
Very underwhelmed with his play this season even though I was told he is a two-time Pro Bowl QB, has all these gaudy stats, best surround of his career. If we're not seeing good offense after this next month of games, we're not making a Super Bowl run. The defense will give us a shot, but it ain't happening if it's 50/50 we score 20 points or more in a game.

Which statement wasn’t true? Not a two time pro bowler? Best surround? One of two QBs to average 230 passing and 40 yards rushing in a minimum of 50 games?

Just win, baby. Amirite?

Was? Slightly better than average. Is? Decidedly below average. Will be? Well above average. It's coming.

MaroonBells wrote:

Was? Slightly better than average. Is? Decidedly below average. Will be? Well above average. It's coming.

Just remember, you and I PROMISED superlative QB play.

JustInTime wrote:

Just remember, you and I PROMISED superlative QB play.

Oh shit, we did? Are we getting run out on a rail? LOL. I remember trying to remind everyone that Murray was a better QB than his reputation and that he could do well with this surround. I also said that it could take him time to get in sync with KOC's system. It has. Longer than I would like, but it's coming.

I think the biggest problem is that we're trying to play protection offense with no running game. Murray hasn't thrown an INT in a month. I think it's time to free him up a bit.

MaroonBells wrote:

Oh shit, we did? Are we getting run out on a rail? LOL. I remember trying to remind everyone that Murray was a better QB than his reputation and that he could do well with this surround. I also said that it could take him time to get in sync with KOC's system. It has. Longer than I would like, but it's coming.
I think the biggest problem is that we're trying to play protection offense with no running game. Murray hasn't thrown an INT in a month. I think it's time to free him up a bit.

Agreed. The positive slant is it's working and we're winning, so maybe that's why Kyler by way of KO has been content to dink and dunk. The nervous part of me thinks we're not taking deep shots because Kyler by way of KO doesn't trust the results we'll get. The deep ball duck INT vs GB didn't exactly boost my confidence that we should be trying more of that.

Give a 4th rounder to Las Vegas and bring Kirko Chains back for a run this year. Jon Gruden is lobbying the Vikings to do so. You bring Cousins back and those explosive plays return. Defenses have to respect the deep passing game. Then find a running back. I would absolutely LOVE to get Jonathan Taylor which would be the icing on the cake. Cousins knows the offense, knows the WR corps and understands what KOC wants to accomplish. Would totally flip the script offensively. I laughed at the Rams and Eagles for what they did making big trades but they have Lombardi Trophies don't they? The Bengals have gone all in as did the Seahawks and then they get Quenton Nelson. I think if anything it has been proven over time you can rebuild a team fast if you are smart. This isn't the old NFL. Pony up Teasely and go chase a championship. Yes the Colts tried and they failed, better to have loved and lost than to have never loved at all.

Chuckf wrote:

Give a 4th rounder to Las Vegas and bring Kirko Chains back for a run this year. Jon Gruden is lobbying the Vikings to do so. You bring Cousins back and those explosive plays return. Defenses have to respect the deep passing game. Then find a running back. I would absolutely LOVE to get Jonathan Taylor which would be the icing on the cake. Cousins knows the offense, knows the WR corps and understands what KOC wants to accomplish. Would totally flip the script offensively. I laughed at the Rams and Eagles for what they did making big trades but they have Lombardi Trophies don't they? The Bengals have gone all in as did the Seahawks and then they get Quenton Nelson. I think if anything it has been proven over time you can rebuild a team fast if you are smart. This isn't the old NFL. Pony up Teasely and go chase a championship. Yes the Colts tried and they failed, better to have loved and lost than to have never loved at all.

I have been thinking the same thing. What would our offense look like with Kirko? I haven’t seen all the Raiders games but the parts I have seen he looks like the Kirk of when he was so productive for us. He is now running Kubiaks offense, which may be superior to the KOC offense at this point honestly. Plus he knows how to get the ball to JJettas, and Jefferson seemed to love him as he helped him break records.

Will it happen short of an injury to Kyler? I doubt it-coaches would have to eat a lot of crow and admit they were wrong about Kyler, etc.

We would lose the scrambling and running of Kyler, but I think Kirk could have our passing game humming at a high level we haven’t seen since Darnold was here.

Still looking for average....

The “Just need an average QB” narrative was a lie.  It was a lie built on the idea that KOC is a genius and our offense is stacked with talent.  NFL offenses are more complicated than that.  There’s more points of failure than people think about.  I think KOC can look like a genius if he has a QB that is built like KOC and thinks like KOC.  I think KOC is struggling with QBs that are outside of that specific mold of tall, accurate, veteran, and intelligent.  This is further complicated by us routinely selecting from the NFL’s bargain bin at the most important position and not really being able to draft a QB to fill this position, because rookies are neither veteran nor intelligent (lack the fast processing of a guy with more experience).  His quote about being a QB Killer seems really on display as we keep cycling through guys and not finding our forever guy.  Also, when your offense is complex enough that really only a top tier person can run it, it really puts a damper on things when the backup has to play.

I also think KOC lacks some experience in implementing an offense.  It feels like both these past years we missed the mark in terms of we planned for one thing, failed to anticipate likely scenarios (rookie QB and Kyler being short and a running QB) and prepared for them up front, and then ended up pivoting midseason.  You combine all the changes happening midseason with the complexity and there’s just a lot of mistakes.  I think with our defense and high talent level, we’d probably be better served with a much simpler offense that has a lower bar of entry for QBs to be successful in, that we just had to execute at a high level.

I don’t think Kyler is a great QB, but I do think he’ll be a good enough QB by the time the playoffs roll around.

medaille wrote:

The “Just need an average QB” narrative was a lie. 

But, but.....that's what we were 'told'?? And we are 6-0, how dare you sir? Amirite? (I think I'm playing correctly)

Magnus1018 wrote:

I have been thinking the same thing. What would our offense look like with Kirko? I haven’t seen all the Raiders games but the parts I have seen he looks like the Kirk of when he was so productive for us. He is now running Kubiaks offense, which may be superior to the KOC offense at this point honestly. Plus he knows how to get the ball to JJettas, and Jefferson seemed to love him as he helped him break records.
Will it happen short of an injury to Kyler? I doubt it-coaches would have to eat a lot of crow and admit they were wrong about Kyler, etc.
We would lose the scrambling and running of Kyler, but I think Kirk could have our passing game humming at a high level we haven’t seen since Darnold was here.

Gruden said on his podcast he would give the Raiders a 2nd if he had to if he was in Minnesota right now. Getting another RB and Cousins he said the Vikings are playing in February.

MaroonBells wrote:

Oh shit, we did? Are we getting run out on a rail? LOL. I remember trying to remind everyone that Murray was a better QB than his reputation and that he could do well with this surround. I also said that it could take him time to get in sync with KOC's system. It has. Longer than I would like, but it's coming.
I think the biggest problem is that we're trying to play protection offense with no running game. Murray hasn't thrown an INT in a month. I think it's time to free him up a bit.

I am wondering if this is part of his hesitation as well. He is a bit behind, a bit slow, which could be being afraid to throw the risky throw. Ball control and defense has worked so far, but at some point he needs to loosen up and make some throws.

JustInTime wrote:

Which statement wasn’t true? Not a two time pro bowler? Best surround? One of two QBs to average 230 passing and 40 yards rushing in a minimum of 50 games?
Just win, baby. Amirite?

Is he averaging that here? Not even close.

MAD GAINZ wrote:

Is he averaging that here? Not even close.

Nope, not yet. And the other points or do you want to just cherry pick?

StickierBuns wrote:

But, but.....that's what we were 'told'?? And we are 6-0, how dare you sir? Amirite? (I think I'm playing correctly)

Let me clarify.

You actually said, repeatedly no less, just win.

I never promised anything.

Let me know if this still exceeds your comprehension level.

Thank you for your attention to this matter

MaroonBells wrote:

Oh shit, we did? Are we getting run out on a rail? LOL. I remember trying to remind everyone that Murray was a better QB than his reputation and that he could do well with this surround. I also said that it could take him time to get in sync with KOC's system. It has. Longer than I would like, but it's coming.
I think the biggest problem is that we're trying to play protection offense with no running game. Murray hasn't thrown an INT in a month. I think it's time to free him up a bit.

I’d be willing to bet at the start of every meeting KO brings up the W/L record when we win the turnover battle. His record is phenomenal

MaroonBells wrote:

Oh shit, we did? Are we getting run out on a rail? LOL. I remember trying to remind everyone that Murray was a better QB than his reputation and that he could do well with this surround. I also said that it could take him time to get in sync with KOC's system. It has. Longer than I would like, but it's coming.
I think the biggest problem is that we're trying to play protection offense with no running game. Murray hasn't thrown an INT in a month. I think it's time to free him up a bit.

You did. You can walk it back if you want, but you talked down anyone that had concerns about Murray's fit here and said people were wrong if we didn't think he would have his best years here with this coaching and this surround.

Maybe he turns it around in the next couple weeks, but thru 6 games... Kyler is on pace for 2300 passing yards, 9 TDs, and 6 INTs this season. LOL

MAD GAINZ wrote:

You did. You can walk it back if you want, but you talked down anyone that had concerns about Murray's fit here and said people were wrong if we didn't think he would have his best years here with this coaching and this surround.
Maybe he turns it around in the next couple weeks, but thru 6 games... Kyler is on pace for 2300 passing yards, 9 TDs, and 6 INTs this season. LOL

Of course he did and so did MB. But good luck expecting either to admit being wrong about anything. Any pushback and the belittling insults come and the dismissiveness. We are just talking football here, we're all wrong and we're all right. You can't deny SO FAR K1 has been very underwhelming, doesn't mean he always will be.