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A lot of the resistance to signing Kirk Cousins takes some form of, "Too expensive" - this includes all forms of, "We won't be able to sign Kendricks/Hunter/Diggs/Barr etc. if we spend $30M at QB".
But didn't the Vikings' FO plan - and HOPE! - to be signing a QB to a huge multiyear deal for 2018?? Spielman's ideal scenario before last season must have been that Sam Bradford would play a full season at or near the level he showed in week 1 against New Orleans. What would be happening right now if that had played out, with Bradford healthy and coming off a 30+ TD season and playoff appearance? Well, some people might still be calling him Sleeves or grumbling about Teddy getting passed over unfairly, but there is no doubt the Vikings would be in the process of signing Bradford to a deal locking him here for the next 5 years for $125M or more. NO DOUBT.
So Spielman and Brzesinski already mapped out how to afford an expensive QB signing. Spotrac estimates the team has $53M open cap space for 2018 and that can increase (Sharrif Floyd is still listed for $6.7M..?) If the Vikings want Cousins and he is willing to come here for about $30M/year, it can be done, and without gutting the team. The money can work so it isn't about that.
Quote: @Jor-El said:
A lot of the resistance to signing Kirk Cousins takes some form of, "Too expensive" - this includes all forms of, "We won't be able to sign Kendricks/Hunter/Diggs/Barr etc. if we spend $30M at QB".
But didn't the Vikings' FO plan - and HOPE! - to be signing a QB to a huge multiyear deal for 2018?? Spielman's ideal scenario before last season must have been that Sam Bradford would play a full season at or near the level he showed in week 1 against New Orleans. What would be happening right now if that had played out, with Bradford healthy and coming off a 30+ TD season and playoff appearance? Well, some people might still be calling him Sleeves or grumbling about Teddy getting passed over unfairly, but there is no doubt the Vikings would be in the process of signing Bradford to a deal locking him here for the next 5 years for $125M or more. NO DOUBT.
So Spielman and Brzesinski already mapped out how to afford an expensive QB signing. Spotrac estimates the team has $53M open cap space for 2018 and that can increase (Sharrif Floyd is still listed for $6.7M..?) If the Vikings want Cousins and he is willing to come here for about $30M/year, it can be done, and without gutting the team. The money can work so it isn't about that.
convince me. do realistic contracts out for the next 2 years for our pending FAs, plus needed street FAs to fill holes for retirees or guys we let walk. leave money to cover your draft picks, and dont forget... we need to add 2 QBs this year, not just one and considering we havent had 1 QB for a whole season in a while, you better make your QB2 somebody you are willing to turn the season over to ( 3-5 million per year) in case your QB1 gets injured. and remember Rick likes to have a few million left over for emergencies. I have seen some speculation at 24 million (i think that was Gurus number) and he thought it should work, but at the 30 mark that keeps getting lofted out there, I dont see it happening. I cant figure out a way to continue to improve the rest of the roster through FA and Draft and spend 30 million a year on 1 QB.
Quote: @JimmyinSD said:
@ Jor-El said:
A lot of the resistance to signing Kirk Cousins takes some form of, "Too expensive" - this includes all forms of, "We won't be able to sign Kendricks/Hunter/Diggs/Barr etc. if we spend $30M at QB".
But didn't the Vikings' FO plan - and HOPE! - to be signing a QB to a huge multiyear deal for 2018?? Spielman's ideal scenario before last season must have been that Sam Bradford would play a full season at or near the level he showed in week 1 against New Orleans. What would be happening right now if that had played out, with Bradford healthy and coming off a 30+ TD season and playoff appearance? Well, some people might still be calling him Sleeves or grumbling about Teddy getting passed over unfairly, but there is no doubt the Vikings would be in the process of signing Bradford to a deal locking him here for the next 5 years for $125M or more. NO DOUBT.
So Spielman and Brzesinski already mapped out how to afford an expensive QB signing. Spotrac estimates the team has $53M open cap space for 2018 and that can increase (Sharrif Floyd is still listed for $6.7M..?) If the Vikings want Cousins and he is willing to come here for about $30M/year, it can be done, and without gutting the team. The money can work so it isn't about that.
convince me. do realistic contracts out for the next 2 years for our pending FAs, plus needed street FAs to fill holes for retirees or guys we let walk. leave money to cover your draft picks, and dont forget... we need to add 2 QBs this year, not just one and considering we havent had 1 QB for a whole season in a while, you better make your QB2 somebody you are willing to turn the season over to ( 3-5 million per year) in case your QB1 gets injured. and remember Rick likes to have a few million left over for emergencies. I have seen some speculation at 24 million (i think that was Gurus number) and he thought it should work, but at the 30 mark that keeps getting lofted out there, I dont see it happening. I cant figure out a way to continue to improve the rest of the roster through FA and Draft and spend 30 million a year on 1 QB.
I think the point you're missing is we would be in this position had any of our current QB's played great. So what is your point; that we should only have a tier 2 or lower QB on the roster because the rest of the team will suffer?
Like it or not this is the current market value of a franchise QB. If you think it's worth the risk of going into next season with a guy that hasn't played in 2 years, and a 55% chance that he'll fully recover, let alone develop into what we thought he could be, or going cheap on a guy with chronic knee issues, and also hasn't played in nearly a year, or rolling the dice on a guy who your coach claims to have had a horse shoe up his butt all season, you're going all in with a pair of 3's.
As Jor-El stated, Brez and Rick knew this day was coming and planned for it. With their track record with the cap you're really doubting their competence?
Quote: @mgobluevikes said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ Jor-El said:
A lot of the resistance to signing Kirk Cousins takes some form of, "Too expensive" - this includes all forms of, "We won't be able to sign Kendricks/Hunter/Diggs/Barr etc. if we spend $30M at QB".
But didn't the Vikings' FO plan - and HOPE! - to be signing a QB to a huge multiyear deal for 2018?? Spielman's ideal scenario before last season must have been that Sam Bradford would play a full season at or near the level he showed in week 1 against New Orleans. What would be happening right now if that had played out, with Bradford healthy and coming off a 30+ TD season and playoff appearance? Well, some people might still be calling him Sleeves or grumbling about Teddy getting passed over unfairly, but there is no doubt the Vikings would be in the process of signing Bradford to a deal locking him here for the next 5 years for $125M or more. NO DOUBT.
So Spielman and Brzesinski already mapped out how to afford an expensive QB signing. Spotrac estimates the team has $53M open cap space for 2018 and that can increase (Sharrif Floyd is still listed for $6.7M..?) If the Vikings want Cousins and he is willing to come here for about $30M/year, it can be done, and without gutting the team. The money can work so it isn't about that.
convince me. do realistic contracts out for the next 2 years for our pending FAs, plus needed street FAs to fill holes for retirees or guys we let walk. leave money to cover your draft picks, and dont forget... we need to add 2 QBs this year, not just one and considering we havent had 1 QB for a whole season in a while, you better make your QB2 somebody you are willing to turn the season over to ( 3-5 million per year) in case your QB1 gets injured. and remember Rick likes to have a few million left over for emergencies. I have seen some speculation at 24 million (i think that was Gurus number) and he thought it should work, but at the 30 mark that keeps getting lofted out there, I dont see it happening. I cant figure out a way to continue to improve the rest of the roster through FA and Draft and spend 30 million a year on 1 QB.
I think the point you're missing is we would be in this position had any of our current QB's played great. So what is your point; that we should only have a tier 2 or lower QB on the roster because the rest of the team will suffer?
Like it or not this is the current market value of a franchise QB. If you think it's worth the risk of going into next season with a guy that hasn't played in 2 years, and a 55% chance that he'll fully recover, let alone develop into what we thought he could be, or going cheap on a guy with chronic knee issues, and also hasn't played in nearly a year, or rolling the dice on a guy who your coach claims to have had a horse shoe up his butt all season, you're going all in with a pair of 3's.
As Jor-El stated, Brez and Rick knew this day was coming and planned for it. With their track record with the cap you're really doubting their competence?
show me where it says they planned on spending 30 million? they were likely referring to spending in the 20 to 25 range for Sam, Teddy or other. 30 million is another monster all together. and yes, I will play my pair against what I read as a unpaired high card any day. who says all in? who says you would be all in with a prove it deal to sam or teddy? or even case for that matter.
Quote: @Jor-El said:
A lot of the resistance to signing Kirk Cousins takes some form of, "Too expensive" - this includes all forms of, "We won't be able to sign Kendricks/Hunter/Diggs/Barr etc. if we spend $30M at QB".
But didn't the Vikings' FO plan - and HOPE! - to be signing a QB to a huge multiyear deal for 2018?? Spielman's ideal scenario before last season must have been that Sam Bradford would play a full season at or near the level he showed in week 1 against New Orleans. What would be happening right now if that had played out, with Bradford healthy and coming off a 30+ TD season and playoff appearance? Well, some people might still be calling him Sleeves or grumbling about Teddy getting passed over unfairly, but there is no doubt the Vikings would be in the process of signing Bradford to a deal locking him here for the next 5 years for $125M or more. NO DOUBT.
So Spielman and Brzesinski already mapped out how to afford an expensive QB signing. Spotrac estimates the team has $53M open cap space for 2018 and that can increase (Sharrif Floyd is still listed for $6.7M..?) If the Vikings want Cousins and he is willing to come here for about $30M/year, it can be done, and without gutting the team. The money can work so it isn't about that.
If they are surprised by the going price of QBs, they have not planned.
Quote: @JimmyinSD said:
@ mgobluevikes said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ Jor-El said:
A lot of the resistance to signing Kirk Cousins takes some form of, "Too expensive" - this includes all forms of, "We won't be able to sign Kendricks/Hunter/Diggs/Barr etc. if we spend $30M at QB".
But didn't the Vikings' FO plan - and HOPE! - to be signing a QB to a huge multiyear deal for 2018?? Spielman's ideal scenario before last season must have been that Sam Bradford would play a full season at or near the level he showed in week 1 against New Orleans. What would be happening right now if that had played out, with Bradford healthy and coming off a 30+ TD season and playoff appearance? Well, some people might still be calling him Sleeves or grumbling about Teddy getting passed over unfairly, but there is no doubt the Vikings would be in the process of signing Bradford to a deal locking him here for the next 5 years for $125M or more. NO DOUBT.
So Spielman and Brzesinski already mapped out how to afford an expensive QB signing. Spotrac estimates the team has $53M open cap space for 2018 and that can increase (Sharrif Floyd is still listed for $6.7M..?) If the Vikings want Cousins and he is willing to come here for about $30M/year, it can be done, and without gutting the team. The money can work so it isn't about that.
convince me. do realistic contracts out for the next 2 years for our pending FAs, plus needed street FAs to fill holes for retirees or guys we let walk. leave money to cover your draft picks, and dont forget... we need to add 2 QBs this year, not just one and considering we havent had 1 QB for a whole season in a while, you better make your QB2 somebody you are willing to turn the season over to ( 3-5 million per year) in case your QB1 gets injured. and remember Rick likes to have a few million left over for emergencies. I have seen some speculation at 24 million (i think that was Gurus number) and he thought it should work, but at the 30 mark that keeps getting lofted out there, I dont see it happening. I cant figure out a way to continue to improve the rest of the roster through FA and Draft and spend 30 million a year on 1 QB.
I think the point you're missing is we would be in this position had any of our current QB's played great. So what is your point; that we should only have a tier 2 or lower QB on the roster because the rest of the team will suffer?
Like it or not this is the current market value of a franchise QB. If you think it's worth the risk of going into next season with a guy that hasn't played in 2 years, and a 55% chance that he'll fully recover, let alone develop into what we thought he could be, or going cheap on a guy with chronic knee issues, and also hasn't played in nearly a year, or rolling the dice on a guy who your coach claims to have had a horse shoe up his butt all season, you're going all in with a pair of 3's.
As Jor-El stated, Brez and Rick knew this day was coming and planned for it. With their track record with the cap you're really doubting their competence?
show me where it says they planned on spending 30 million? they were likely referring to spending in the 20 to 25 range for Sam, Teddy or other. 30 million is another monster all together. and yes, I will play my pair against what I read as a unpaired high card any day. who says all in? who says you would be all in with a prove it deal to sam or teddy? or even case for that matter.
Where does a prove it deal leave you when they prove they can't?
Both Sam and Teddy should be offered a back up position. Realistically, nobody is going to offer them a starters roll, with starters money given their physical histories right now. Case is the wild card. Maybe Flip thinks there's more there to work with than Zimmer. Not sure he would hitch his wagon to him though.
Quote: @mgobluevikes said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ mgobluevikes said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ Jor-El said:
A lot of the resistance to signing Kirk Cousins takes some form of, "Too expensive" - this includes all forms of, "We won't be able to sign Kendricks/Hunter/Diggs/Barr etc. if we spend $30M at QB".
But didn't the Vikings' FO plan - and HOPE! - to be signing a QB to a huge multiyear deal for 2018?? Spielman's ideal scenario before last season must have been that Sam Bradford would play a full season at or near the level he showed in week 1 against New Orleans. What would be happening right now if that had played out, with Bradford healthy and coming off a 30+ TD season and playoff appearance? Well, some people might still be calling him Sleeves or grumbling about Teddy getting passed over unfairly, but there is no doubt the Vikings would be in the process of signing Bradford to a deal locking him here for the next 5 years for $125M or more. NO DOUBT.
So Spielman and Brzesinski already mapped out how to afford an expensive QB signing. Spotrac estimates the team has $53M open cap space for 2018 and that can increase (Sharrif Floyd is still listed for $6.7M..?) If the Vikings want Cousins and he is willing to come here for about $30M/year, it can be done, and without gutting the team. The money can work so it isn't about that.
convince me. do realistic contracts out for the next 2 years for our pending FAs, plus needed street FAs to fill holes for retirees or guys we let walk. leave money to cover your draft picks, and dont forget... we need to add 2 QBs this year, not just one and considering we havent had 1 QB for a whole season in a while, you better make your QB2 somebody you are willing to turn the season over to ( 3-5 million per year) in case your QB1 gets injured. and remember Rick likes to have a few million left over for emergencies. I have seen some speculation at 24 million (i think that was Gurus number) and he thought it should work, but at the 30 mark that keeps getting lofted out there, I dont see it happening. I cant figure out a way to continue to improve the rest of the roster through FA and Draft and spend 30 million a year on 1 QB.
I think the point you're missing is we would be in this position had any of our current QB's played great. So what is your point; that we should only have a tier 2 or lower QB on the roster because the rest of the team will suffer?
Like it or not this is the current market value of a franchise QB. If you think it's worth the risk of going into next season with a guy that hasn't played in 2 years, and a 55% chance that he'll fully recover, let alone develop into what we thought he could be, or going cheap on a guy with chronic knee issues, and also hasn't played in nearly a year, or rolling the dice on a guy who your coach claims to have had a horse shoe up his butt all season, you're going all in with a pair of 3's.
As Jor-El stated, Brez and Rick knew this day was coming and planned for it. With their track record with the cap you're really doubting their competence?
show me where it says they planned on spending 30 million? they were likely referring to spending in the 20 to 25 range for Sam, Teddy or other. 30 million is another monster all together. and yes, I will play my pair against what I read as a unpaired high card any day. who says all in? who says you would be all in with a prove it deal to sam or teddy? or even case for that matter.
Where does a prove it deal leave you when they prove they can't?
Both Sam and Teddy should be offered a back up position. Realistically, nobody is going to offer them a starters roll, with starters money given their physical histories right now. Case is the wild card. Maybe Flip thinks there's more there to work with than Zimmer. Not sure he would hitch his wagon to him though.
you are going to have no less than 3 teams take a QB in the first round this year that dont have an in house starter, I would bet that at least 2 of the 3 of our current QBs will likely be looked at very hard for a bridge roll with any team taking a QB early this year.
as far as where it leaves us, a lot better than if cousins isnt a 30 million dollar guy (which I dont think he is) and having to pay that amount for the next 4 years, thats the beauty of a prove it deal, we dont have to live with the mistake long term.
Quote: @JimmyinSD said:
@ mgobluevikes said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ Jor-El said:
A lot of the resistance to signing Kirk Cousins takes some form of, "Too expensive" - this includes all forms of, "We won't be able to sign Kendricks/Hunter/Diggs/Barr etc. if we spend $30M at QB".
But didn't the Vikings' FO plan - and HOPE! - to be signing a QB to a huge multiyear deal for 2018?? Spielman's ideal scenario before last season must have been that Sam Bradford would play a full season at or near the level he showed in week 1 against New Orleans. What would be happening right now if that had played out, with Bradford healthy and coming off a 30+ TD season and playoff appearance? Well, some people might still be calling him Sleeves or grumbling about Teddy getting passed over unfairly, but there is no doubt the Vikings would be in the process of signing Bradford to a deal locking him here for the next 5 years for $125M or more. NO DOUBT.
So Spielman and Brzesinski already mapped out how to afford an expensive QB signing. Spotrac estimates the team has $53M open cap space for 2018 and that can increase (Sharrif Floyd is still listed for $6.7M..?) If the Vikings want Cousins and he is willing to come here for about $30M/year, it can be done, and without gutting the team. The money can work so it isn't about that.
convince me. do realistic contracts out for the next 2 years for our pending FAs, plus needed street FAs to fill holes for retirees or guys we let walk. leave money to cover your draft picks, and dont forget... we need to add 2 QBs this year, not just one and considering we havent had 1 QB for a whole season in a while, you better make your QB2 somebody you are willing to turn the season over to ( 3-5 million per year) in case your QB1 gets injured. and remember Rick likes to have a few million left over for emergencies. I have seen some speculation at 24 million (i think that was Gurus number) and he thought it should work, but at the 30 mark that keeps getting lofted out there, I dont see it happening. I cant figure out a way to continue to improve the rest of the roster through FA and Draft and spend 30 million a year on 1 QB.
I think the point you're missing is we would be in this position had any of our current QB's played great. So what is your point; that we should only have a tier 2 or lower QB on the roster because the rest of the team will suffer?
Like it or not this is the current market value of a franchise QB. If you think it's worth the risk of going into next season with a guy that hasn't played in 2 years, and a 55% chance that he'll fully recover, let alone develop into what we thought he could be, or going cheap on a guy with chronic knee issues, and also hasn't played in nearly a year, or rolling the dice on a guy who your coach claims to have had a horse shoe up his butt all season, you're going all in with a pair of 3's.
As Jor-El stated, Brez and Rick knew this day was coming and planned for it. With their track record with the cap you're really doubting their competence?
show me where it says they planned on spending 30 million? they were likely referring to spending in the 20 to 25 range for Sam, Teddy or other. 30 million is another monster all together. and yes, I will play my pair against what I read as a unpaired high card any day. who says all in? who says you would be all in with a prove it deal to sam or teddy? or even case for that matter.
I don't agree that 30 million is "another monster" than 25 million. It's another $5 million, it's inflation at the top position, it's something like, "Oh I guess we can't have Latavius Murray as Dalvin Cook's backup". They're going to have $60M in cap space after they cut Floyd, what are you going to do with it? Bet that $10M for Sheldon Richardson will put us over the top?
Maybe we won't be able to sign every internal FA and a wish list of street FAs for the next two years, or have a $5M/year backup QB. Maybe Hunter or Diggs need to play out their contracts, or we lose Trae Waynes after his 5th year. Do all of those really matter more than getting a healthy QB in his prime who can get this offense to consistently put up points to win championship games???
This team almost went to the SB and QB is their weak spot. If they fart around at that position, roll the dice with some strategy of "Let's see if Teddy's knee holds up and he gets better than he was in 2015" or "See if Case can be lucky for another year" and that fails...well, they won't have to worry about finding money for free agents, because players won't come to or stay with a team that's going to start over with Ryan Sloter and a rookie in 2019.
Sign Cousins. Field a championship offense. Win a Super Bowl. Quit worrying about a 5-year budget.
Quote: @JimmyinSD said:
@ mgobluevikes said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ Jor-El said:
A lot of the resistance to signing Kirk Cousins takes some form of, "Too expensive" - this includes all forms of, "We won't be able to sign Kendricks/Hunter/Diggs/Barr etc. if we spend $30M at QB".
But didn't the Vikings' FO plan - and HOPE! - to be signing a QB to a huge multiyear deal for 2018?? Spielman's ideal scenario before last season must have been that Sam Bradford would play a full season at or near the level he showed in week 1 against New Orleans. What would be happening right now if that had played out, with Bradford healthy and coming off a 30+ TD season and playoff appearance? Well, some people might still be calling him Sleeves or grumbling about Teddy getting passed over unfairly, but there is no doubt the Vikings would be in the process of signing Bradford to a deal locking him here for the next 5 years for $125M or more. NO DOUBT.
So Spielman and Brzesinski already mapped out how to afford an expensive QB signing. Spotrac estimates the team has $53M open cap space for 2018 and that can increase (Sharrif Floyd is still listed for $6.7M..?) If the Vikings want Cousins and he is willing to come here for about $30M/year, it can be done, and without gutting the team. The money can work so it isn't about that.
convince me. do realistic contracts out for the next 2 years for our pending FAs, plus needed street FAs to fill holes for retirees or guys we let walk. leave money to cover your draft picks, and dont forget... we need to add 2 QBs this year, not just one and considering we havent had 1 QB for a whole season in a while, you better make your QB2 somebody you are willing to turn the season over to ( 3-5 million per year) in case your QB1 gets injured. and remember Rick likes to have a few million left over for emergencies. I have seen some speculation at 24 million (i think that was Gurus number) and he thought it should work, but at the 30 mark that keeps getting lofted out there, I dont see it happening. I cant figure out a way to continue to improve the rest of the roster through FA and Draft and spend 30 million a year on 1 QB.
I think the point you're missing is we would be in this position had any of our current QB's played great. So what is your point; that we should only have a tier 2 or lower QB on the roster because the rest of the team will suffer?
Like it or not this is the current market value of a franchise QB. If you think it's worth the risk of going into next season with a guy that hasn't played in 2 years, and a 55% chance that he'll fully recover, let alone develop into what we thought he could be, or going cheap on a guy with chronic knee issues, and also hasn't played in nearly a year, or rolling the dice on a guy who your coach claims to have had a horse shoe up his butt all season, you're going all in with a pair of 3's.
As Jor-El stated, Brez and Rick knew this day was coming and planned for it. With their track record with the cap you're really doubting their competence?
show me where it says they planned on spending 30 million? they were likely referring to spending in the 20 to 25 range for Sam, Teddy or other. 30 million is another monster all together. and yes, I will play my pair against what I read as a unpaired high card any day. who says all in? who says you would be all in with a prove it deal to sam or teddy? or even case for that matter.
You seem really hung-up on $30M. Were you similarly hung-up on $20M a couple of years ago?
Case will get a look. Sam and Teddy will not be looked at as day 1 starters for anyone. They may get an opportunity to come in and compete, but for backup money.
If we let Case walk away, and go in with our fingers crossed with Sam and Teddy, and can't finish a season, Rick would be crucified. We'll be cash flush, and right back to where we were in the Ponder years. Talking about living with a mistake long term....
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