Tier 2 vs Tier 1 QBs

[HappyViking]

So, what model of building a team is better now that we've seen what a guy like Foles can do when you give him a great OLine and enough offensive weapons.

Do teams really worry about having that "great franchise QB" like a Payton, Big Ben, Rodgers, Brady, and Brees, or now will the trend change to getting a great supporting cast of players with a decent QB that won't have to carry the team?

Personally, I think Case has the talent of Foles.  If the Vikes continue to build the OLine, and also upgrade the interior DL for pass rushing, I don't see any need to get into any crazy bidding wars for the best FA QB that's out there.  I hope they continue spend their money upgrading other weak spots along both the offensive and defensive lines.

Foles played great, but next year he's back on the bench behind Carson.  He won a damn SB, something a Viking QB has never done, but yet he's going to still be looked at as a backup.  Crazy, huh?

[Guest]

For me it boils down to being far easier to find good (to very good) players, versus finding great players.
i.e. You build a good (to very good) TEAM. Makes the QB job easier, thus (like you say) shouldn't need to get in a bidding war for the next potential "franchise" QB.

At least thats how it works in my overly simplistic theory...  =)  

[Guest]

ive made similar statements quite a bit the last few weeks.  for me it boils down to it being much easier and cheaper to build a quality oline and supporting cast with good depth than it is to find a couple top tier QBs to cover up for shoddy oline play.  the reason i say a couple as we have all seen first hand that 1 QB very likely wont get it done for 19 to 20 games.

[Guest]

a great coach and the most very good players seems to beat a few great players. But Foles has been able to look very good in Philly a couple of times now. Jeff Fisher makes everyone suck.

[Guest]

First thought: we - and everyone - are now going to overvalue this year's SB for a while. Foles came out on top, yes - but if Brady gets the ball out of his hand to avoid the strip sack, or Gronk catches that Hail Mary, then all of today's stories might be about the transcendent nature of Tom Brady and that having a HOF QB is the only way to have a multi-year dynasty. It's not as if the Eagles beat the Pats 41-0; it was a close win that could have gone the other way. And it is only one game.
Second thought: Foles was a 3rd-round pick who many scouts liked and believed had long-term starting potential. He's 6-5, 240 with a very strong arm, a Pro Bowl season a few years ago and some impressive records including a 7 TD game. In terms of both his physical talent and NFL resume, he is NOT comparable to Case Keenum.
Third thought: yeah, duh - NFL personnel men over-obsess with the "franchise QB" idea. That's why we see a QB, or a couple, climb up the draft charts and get picked #1 even when better all-around players are available at other positions. BUT that has been the habit of so many NFL GMs that they aren't going to admit this and change very quickly.
If this is true, then Howie Roseman should trade Wentz to the Browns for 3 #1 picks, surround Foles with a few more quality starters, and live this theory, right?? But he convinced his owner that they needed to trade a lot of draft capital for Wentz - the "franchise-2nd-overall-pick-worth-more-than-three-other-players" QB. So the man who just won a championship without a "franchise QB" is now going to try to justify having gone out to get one.

[Guest]

Does anyone remember just two short weeks ago when Case was considered to be way better than Foles?  Many "experts" picked the Vikes to  win in Philly because of Case.  My how things change in a hurry.  B)

[Guest]

Every QB the Vikings has ever employed have left me in tears!  B) 

[Guest]

@HappyViking said:
Does anyone remember just two short weeks ago when Case was considered to be way better than Foles?  Many "experts" picked the Vikes to  win in Philly because of Case.  My how things change in a hurry.  B)

Those "experts" probably figured Zimmer's defense would cause more trouble for Foles then the Eagles' defense for Keenum.  Boy were they wrong. 

[Guest]

Anything can happen in a one year scenario. Foles's career has been spotty before this, same with Keenum. Do we now expect Foles to perform like this and he's now an elite QB? Same with Keenum? Or are they more anomaly than rule? The odds and history will tell you the latter.

I want a QB that is Tier 1: the only guy I've seen close is Bradford. But he's a risk with that knee. 

[Guest]

@StickyBun said:
Anything can happen in a one year scenario. Foles's career has been spotty before this, same with Keenum. Do we now expect Foles to perform like this and he's now an elite QB? Same with Keenum? Or are they more anomaly than rule? The odds and history will tell you the latter.

I want a QB that is Tier 1: the only guy I've seen close is Bradford. But he's a risk with that knee. 

I think it's a mistake to say Foles' 2017 was as anomalous as Keenum's. Take out the Super Bowl - which is justifiably magnified in importance - and no one would say this was Foles' best season; that was certainly 2013 (27 TDs).
Subtract 2017 TD and INT stats from each of their careers and the rest of their careers are very different:
Keenum: 2017=22/7; rest of career=24/20 (4 seasons)
Foles:      2017=5/2; rest of career=56/27 (5 seasons)
Keenum threw nearly half of his career TDs (46) just this year, an enormous spike in his career graph. His production this year was more than double any other season, so it's fair to say it was totally unexpected. But Foles has been a middle-of-the-road QB before (and IMO is probably still just that).
I am surprised that many people on this board are discounting Foles' performance in the playoffs and SB, which are high-pressure games. Doesn't that contradict the view that Bridgewater's value is greater than his statistical production because he is "GUMP"?